Are mains surge protectors needed in the UK?

[w_tom]

Blanket denials speculated by David Maynard don't prove
anything. He provides no underlying theory, no experimental
evidence, and no numbers (a symptom of a junk scientists). He
provides no industry professional citations. He just
speculates to prove a plug-in protector must work. IOW if not
working for a plug-in manufacturer, he sure does promote their
half-truths vigorously.

The method used in high reliability facilities such as cell
phone towers, 911 emergency call centers, telephone Central
Offices, commercial broadcasters, etc is the 'whole house'
protector with single point earth grounding. Protection
system even recommended by the National Institute for Science
and Technology. System that protects internal appliance
protection from being overwhelmed.

For residential protection, it costs about $1 per protected
appliance verses maybe $15 or $50 per for the grossly
overpriced plug-in protectors recommended by David.
Furthermore, 'whole house' protection protects everything
include kitchen GFCIs and other kitchen appliances, dimmer
switches, furnace controls, clock radios, smoke detectors,
etc. No plug-in protector even mentions protection is
required. Why? Plug-in manufacturers are not selling
effective protection. They offer protection from one,
typically nonexistent type of surge by selling grossly
overpriced protectors.

Substantial improvement at much less cost is the 'whole
house' system that is based upon well proven principles -
proven in both theory and generations of experience. A surge
protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

To promote those ineffective, undersized, and grossly
overpriced plug-in protectors, others must forget and avoid
critical facts. They will even claim a wall receptacle safety
ground is earth ground despite basic electrical engineering
numbers to the contrary. They ignore other problems created
by earthing transients inside the building including hidden
and destructive paths to earth ground and other ground loop
problems. They ignore internal protection that already exists
inside appliances. They forget to mention how grossly
undersized so many plug-in protectors are. Some so grossly
undersized as to be damaged by a surge too small to overwhelm
internal appliance protection. They even forget to mention
the plug-in protector manufacturer does not claim protection
from that type of transient. And most important, then they
must disparage the messenger rather than provide technical
facts and numbers. David Maynard does that repeatedly even in
his latest post. The word 'babble' becomes his scientific
reasoning.

Provided were good 'whole house' solutions including
products from Leviton, Cutler-Hammer, Square D, and Furse.
Even Home Depot sells a minimally effective protector as
Intermatic IG1240RC for about the price of one or two
ineffective plug-in protectors. Just like Ben Franklin
demonstrated in 1752 - protection from lightning damage has
always been about earthing the transient before it can enter
the building. Principles apply both to lightning rods and to
'whole house' protection. Protection is defined by the earth
ground - which plug-in protectors avoid discussing let alone
connect to. No earth ground means no effective protection no
matter how David Maynard tries to spin it.

 

[Aldo Larrabiata]

plonk plonk plonk

 

[David Maynard]

Blanket denials speculated by David Maynard don't prove
anything.

That's a grade AA jumbo joke coming from you, who's primary mode is
'blanket' babble and slander.

I've not 'blanket' anything and that you are unable to comprehend the basic
principles is your problem.

He provides no underlying theory, no experimental
evidence, and no numbers (a symptom of a junk scientists). He
provides no industry professional citations. He just
speculates to prove a plug-in protector must work. IOW if not
working for a plug-in manufacturer, he sure does promote their
half-truths vigorously.

More lies.

The method used in high reliability facilities such as cell
phone towers, 911 emergency call centers, telephone Central
Offices, commercial broadcasters, etc is the 'whole house'
protector with single point earth grounding. Protection
system even recommended by the National Institute for Science
and Technology. System that protects internal appliance
protection from being overwhelmed.

I got news for you, pal, I don't live in a cell phone tower either and for
you to assert that whatever a cell phone tower needs is precisely the ideal
solution for everyone's home is EEG flat-line babble.

For residential protection, it costs about $1 per protected
appliance verses maybe $15 or $50 per for the grossly
overpriced plug-in protectors recommended by David.

You haven't got a freaking CLUE how many 'appliances' I have, not to
mention which ones need protection, nor which ones I care to 'protect'.

Nor are all 'whole house' protectors the same cost, the same type, nor do
they offer the same protection.

Of course that doesn't stop you from making blanket assertions of 'cost
this' and 'cost that' for unspecified 'protection' from lord only knows what.

Furthermore, 'whole house' protection protects everything
include kitchen GFCIs and other kitchen appliances, dimmer
switches, furnace controls, clock radios, smoke detectors,
etc.

You mean all those things you keep claiming don't need 'protection' because
they have 'sufficient' protection built in?

No plug-in protector even mentions protection is
required. Why?

Because only YOU are brain dead enough to suggest putting a surge protector
on them.

Plug-in manufacturers are not selling
effective protection.

Everybody sing together "blanket assertion."

They offer protection from one,
typically nonexistent type of surge by selling grossly
overpriced protectors.

More lies.

Substantial improvement at much less cost is the 'whole
house' system that is based upon well proven principles -
proven in both theory and generations of experience.

Everybody sing together "blanket assertion."

A surge
protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

That must explain why aircraft electronics surge protectors never work:
that pesky 'earth ground' is 30,000 feet down and not even a high impedance
wire to it either. Oh wait, but they do.

That's the kind of nonsense you end up with when you make idiotic BLANKET
ASSERTIONS.

To promote those ineffective, undersized, and grossly
overpriced plug-in protectors, others must forget and avoid
critical facts.

No, one simply need remember, and not forget, that w_tom uses slander and
lies as a 'selling' tool.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but it's what you do.

They will even claim a wall receptacle safety
ground is earth ground despite basic electrical engineering
numbers to the contrary.

And just where do YOU think it goes? Mars ground?

They ignore other problems created
by earthing transients inside the building including hidden
and destructive paths to earth ground and other ground loop
problems.

"Hidden" and "other." Break out the voo-doo drums.

Actually, what you're describing are the problems with 'whole house'
protectors in large facilities, such as the "communication facilities" you
keep claiming are ideal examples of what a home needs.

They ignore internal protection that already exists
inside appliances.

No, YOU did when insisting people must purchase plug-in protectors for
every one of them so you can generate your idiotic 'cost' numbers.

They forget to mention how grossly
undersized so many plug-in protectors are.

They don't 'mention' it because it isn't true, regardless of how many times
you babble that slander.

Some so grossly
undersized as to be damaged by a surge too small to overwhelm
internal appliance protection. They even forget to mention
the plug-in protector manufacturer does not claim protection
from that type of transient.

More lies.

And most important, then they
must disparage the messenger rather than provide technical
facts and numbers.

For you, from whom the first word out of mouth is to slander every
manufacturer of plug-in protectors, to be complaining about being called on
your babble is knee slapping hilarious. Doubly so when you append it right
after a pile of slander.

David Maynard does that repeatedly even in
his latest post. The word 'babble' becomes his scientific
reasoning.

"Babble" is not a term of "scientific reasoning." It is, however, an
accurate description of the reasoning YOU post.

Provided were good 'whole house' solutions including
products from Leviton, Cutler-Hammer, Square D, and Furse.

I never said anything against 'whole house' protectors; Just against your
slanderous babble that you apparently think is the 'preferred' means of
selling something.

Even Home Depot sells a minimally effective protector as

Then why do you perpetually talk about 'whole house' protectors as if every
one were identical, including those for a 'communications facility?"

Intermatic IG1240RC for about the price of one or two
ineffective plug-in protectors.

The plug-in protectors are effective as well.

Just like Ben Franklin
demonstrated in 1752 - protection from lightning damage has
always been about earthing the transient before it can enter
the building.

Yes, if the only thing you want to do is protect from direct lightning
strike an 18'th century building where the entire compliment of electrical
devices is the lightning rod itself.

Principles apply both to lightning rods and to
'whole house' protection.

Just as the 'principle' of electron flow in lightning 'applies' to computer
microchips, but you'd have to be pretty darn ignorant to think that's all
there was to it.

Protection is defined by the earth
ground

A device is 'protected' if there are no damaging voltages across any of
it's terminals, regardless of how that's accomplished.

News flash: the world doesn't snap to attention and change the definition
of things just because you stick your pompous finger in the air and blanket
declare it.

- which plug-in protectors avoid discussing let alone
connect to.

More blanket slanderous lies.

No earth ground means no effective protection no
matter how David Maynard tries to spin it.

And now Mr. Thinks_Your_House_Is_A_Cell_Phone_Tower calls the truth 'spin'.

 

[Panos Papadopolous]

We are the same with regard to the fuse box tripping out.

I do have surge protectors on my PC equipment. For an extra few quid
it seemed a good safety measure.

Chances of a power surge are probably 5000 to 1. But wouldnt you feel
silly if you were that 5000th person?

At then end of the day its your call. Do you feel lucky? Just how many
thunderstorms are we having compared with last year, and the year
before?

Hi Harry!

Where are you located? UK? Australia?

Hope you don't have as many thunder/lightning storms as we do here in Tampa,
Florida in the good old US of A.

It's like constant artillery fire around here.

 

[Panos Papadopolous]

Do you live in an area where lightning is frequent? A lightning strike that
is merely _near_ to an underground utility circuit can induce damaging
voltages into them meaning that your power mains, telephone, and cable TV
are all possible carriers. Admittedly there is no place in the UK that I've
heard of that experiences the sort of storms that ravage parts of the USA,
Flordia comes immediately to mind, but if you ever do have even one event
then a small investment in protection would be invaluable.

Hi John!

I am glad to see someone finally point out that overhead power lines and
phone lines are much more apt to cause problems with lightning surges than
are their underground equivalents.

And also point out that amount of lightning strikes varies with geography.

I don't know what it's like in Tennessee, but we sure have plenty in the
Tampa, Lakeland, Daytona Beach across Florida as you point out.

 

[Panos Papadopolous]

" Am I being too complacent? "


Think of this when you next take a shit.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/3457965.stm

Hey Cuzman, the article was very interesting but I saw nothing relating it
to lightning, but rather to a fault in HV cables beneath the public unit.