Are Canon Printers As Good As Epson?

[justin david]

I'm nearly ready to buy a new printer and am sick of the Epson ink
bullshit- constant head clogging and cleaning of inks- but like their
printer output. My girlfriend has a lower end Canon and loves it over
the Epson she once had. I'm in the market for whatever high end
printer Canon may have. My questions are- Is the output as good as
Epson; Do they now have archival inks; Can the inks be refilled with
one of the higher end ink systems like the Epsons; Is there a similar
head clogging problem with Canon; I'm working on large scale
panoramas- does Canon have facilities for paper rolls? Thanks for any
help in making this decision.

 

[zakezuke]

I'm nearly ready to buy a new printer and am sick of the Epson ink
bullshit- constant head clogging and cleaning of inks- but like their
printer output. My girlfriend has a lower end Canon and loves it over
the Epson she once had. I'm in the market for whatever high end
printer Canon may have. My questions are- Is the output as good as
Epson; Do they now have archival inks; Can the inks be refilled with
one of the higher end ink systems like the Epsons; Is there a similar
head clogging problem with Canon; I'm working on large scale
panoramas- does Canon have facilities for paper rolls? Thanks for any
help in making this decision.

[Is the output as good as Epson]

You know, I own the ip5200, and I gotta say in the color department, I
prefer epson.

[Do they now have archival inks]

Not even. Lyson claims to have longer life inks for the Canon, but
near as I can tell they don't have colors matched to current models.
The new claims of 100 years on the new ink is well, in an album dark
storage. Think 30 years under glass, a couple years unprotected
according to canon.

The new pixma pro 9500 will have pigment inks, but... it's not out yet,
and it's delayed. No one has met the printer nor inks.

There are higher end canons using the imagePROGRAF inks but... we are
talking wide format.

[Can the inks be refilled with one of the higher end ink systems like
the Epsons]

They can be refilled, but i'm not aware of a solution for high end
inks. There are not really many options for CIS systems like there is
epson, not on the new models.

Keep in mind that canons are thermal, so the inks gotta boil and expand
at the proper rate, this really limites your options.

[Is there a similar head clogging problem with Canon]

No, the nice thing about thermal is there isn't the same issue. You
still got cleaning cycles, but due to the small size of basicly a
coil... and the chamber size, and the fact that you are using steam,
clogs tend to not be as serious. Heads do have a limited life, and
over leaning does seem to take a marginal but somewhat ok gasket and
blow it and you get color mixing, but this is over a year down the road
and can be fixed by getting a new head and plopping it in.

Epsons to me require more elbow grease... canons you can throw money at
them, though heads are covered under warranty, shipped 2nd day air at
the drop of a hat. Epsons the whole printer is covered by warranty.

[I'm working on large scale panoramas- does Canon have facilities for
paper rolls?]

Hell no. Unless you start talking their more commerical models, you
can forget rolls. Now you can go up to almost 24 inches... but THAT'S
IT.

[Additional info]
In canon, you can go iPF500. This will set you back about $1500. This
will do rolls, but I believe it's a dye printer unlike other
imagePROGRAF models. The iPF5000 will set you back even more and can
do rolls and uses lucia pigment. You were unclear as to buget as size
specifications, and I don't know if going 17 inch and wider is within
your desired application.

 

[Fenrir Enterprises]

I'm nearly ready to buy a new printer and am sick of the Epson ink
bullshit- constant head clogging and cleaning of inks- but like their
printer output. My girlfriend has a lower end Canon and loves it over
the Epson she once had. I'm in the market for whatever high end
printer Canon may have. My questions are- Is the output as good as
Epson; Do they now have archival inks; Can the inks be refilled with
one of the higher end ink systems like the Epsons; Is there a similar
head clogging problem with Canon; I'm working on large scale
panoramas- does Canon have facilities for paper rolls? Thanks for any
help in making this decision.

What kind of Epson do you have? I have an R340 (Dyebased 6-color) and
a C88+ (Pigment 4-color). I have had no clogging issues with the R340
(I had quality issues with the CD print function, but that's another
story). The R340 uses FAR less ink than the C88+ does when it comes to
cleaning cycles, etc. I leave it on all the time and wait long periods
between printing and it still works fine after about 9 months of
(ab)use. The C88+ eats ink like there's no tomorrow, and if I wasn't
using refills, I would have spent about $900 in ink cartridge
replacements. I only use it for high volume text printing though, I
use OEM cartridges in the R340.

In my own personal experience, the Epson blows HP and Canon out of the
water as far as photograph printing goes. HP premium paper has that
bizarre, 'sandpaper' backing, and is very flimsy despite being very
thick, due to the need for it to follow the HP 180 degree paper path
without jamming up. Even the Premium Plus glossy paper looks a bit
'dull' to me (due to the ink, and not the paper, since it's very
glossy before printing), though the prints from the new series that
take the HP 02 inks are much, much better than any previous HP. Canon
prints looked better than HP to me, but their own photo paper has a
weird 'textured' surface, even the ultra high gloss one, that looks
really odd to me. I've heard people have had good results using Epson
paper in Canon printers, but have not tried that myself. I only use
Epson Ultra Premium Glossy Photo paper (a little rare, only Staples
carries it) in the R340, and the gloss and vividness of the colors are
outstanding. However, because it is dyebased, the prints are probably
not highly archival.

Find out which stores in your area keep printers with ink in them, and
buy some photo paper sample packs and go around getting some test
prints. Bring your own pictures on digital camera cards to see how
they come out (keeping in mind that if you are good with Photoshop you
could probably make them look even better).

--

http://www.FenrirOnline.com

Computer services, custom metal etching,
arts, crafts, and much more.

 

[measekite]

I'm nearly ready to buy a new printer and am sick of the Epson ink
bullshit- constant head clogging and cleaning of inks- but like their
printer output. My girlfriend has a lower end Canon and loves it over
the Epson she once had. I'm in the market for whatever high end
printer Canon may have. My questions are- Is the output as good as
Epson;

Canon output using dye ink is better than Epson output using dye ink.
Never use generic ink in any printer as the output is reduced, fading is
increased, and you are a candidate for clogged heads in any printer.

That said Epson output from pigmented ink printers should last longer
than Canon dye printers but require more cleaning cycles to keep the
heads from clogging and the output is not as sharp and vivid as Canon.

Canon is due to ship a pigmented printer at the end of the year.

 

[ytrewq]

I'm nearly ready to buy a new printer and am sick of the Epson ink
bullshit- constant head clogging and cleaning of inks- but like their
printer output. My girlfriend has a lower end Canon and loves it over
the Epson she once had. I'm in the market for whatever high end
printer Canon may have. My questions are- Is the output as good as
Epson; Do they now have archival inks; Can the inks be refilled with
one of the higher end ink systems like the Epsons; Is there a similar
head clogging problem with Canon; I'm working on large scale
panoramas- does Canon have facilities for paper rolls? Thanks for any
help in making this decision.

 

[Lou]

I'm nearly ready to buy a new printer and am sick of the Epson ink
bullshit- constant head clogging and cleaning of inks- but like their
printer output. My girlfriend has a lower end Canon and loves it over
the Epson she once had. I'm in the market for whatever high end
printer Canon may have. My questions are- Is the output as good as
Epson; Do they now have archival inks; Can the inks be refilled with
one of the higher end ink systems like the Epsons; Is there a similar
head clogging problem with Canon; I'm working on large scale
panoramas- does Canon have facilities for paper rolls? Thanks for any
help in making this decision.

If AE replies value his advice, meanwhile Google is your friend. Have
you tried it? Look for "printer reviews"

Lou

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I did see this posting and choose to wait it out. I don't use Canon
printers, and they have indeed improved considerably over the last few
years, so the print quality is almost no longer an issue. Of course
personal preference does become an issue. Some people like the slightly
less punchy quality of pigment inks, or are willing to live with them
because they provide a permanence that most dye inks cannot.

Although Canon has released a pigment ink printer, it is a wide carriage
and uses quite a few ink colors. As those who read this group know, I
am not keen on the Durabrite inks that the lower end C and CX
printers/all in ones from Epson use. These quick drying pigment inks
have a higher than normal head clogging problem. The newer Durabrite
Ultra are apparently less of a problem, but I have no personal
experience with them yet.

Canon's dye ink prints usually look great. They are sometimes a little
brighter than some people like, but the "photo quality" would be hard to
argue. The OEM inks have had a problem with fading. The newer
Chromalife 100 inks are superior in those terms, but they are probably
no better than the Epson dye inks. They fade under light conditions.

Epson's Ultrachrome inks rarely clog and provide relatively good gamut.

Canon's currently marketed printers have a chip in their cartridges that
to my knowledge can't be fully over-riden in terms of refilling.

Epson's also use a chip monitor and are hard to refill, but the chip can
be reset with an inexpensive ($5-10) resetter.

Canon's head have a limited life usually about 18-24 months at moderate
use. Epson's heads are permanent, but if they clog, it can be more
difficult to deal with.

Canon's printers do not have as professional drivers as the Epson models
and don't have as many accessories like CI. Epsons have more custom
designed inks.

Prices are relatively equal in terms of equal quality models.

 

[measekite]

I did see this posting and choose to wait it out. I don't use Canon
printers, and they have indeed improved considerably over the last few
years, so the print quality is almost no longer an issue. Of course
personal preference does become an issue. Some people like the
slightly less punchy quality of pigment inks, or are willing to live
with them because they provide a permanence that most dye inks cannot.

Although Canon has released a pigment ink printer,

That statement is totally false. You cannot buy one. Canon has
announced a pigmented Pro 9500 inkjet printer that is currently on their
website and their site currently states that is it expected to ship in
the first quarter of 2007. They are currently doing the final phase of
ink testing. I expect they are going to use some of the current Lucia
inks that ship with the IPF 5000 pigmented 12 color 17" wide printer. I
expect this to surpass the Epson 4000 in that you do not have to purge
the printer and change the black when changing from glossy to matte
paper at a cost of $150 of wasted ink for a round trip.

If you pride yourself on being accurate than be accurate.

it is a wide carriage and uses quite a few ink colors. As those who
read this group know, I am not keen on the Durabrite inks that the
lower end C and CX printers/all in ones from Epson use. These quick
drying pigment inks have a higher than normal head clogging problem.
The newer Durabrite Ultra are apparently less of a problem, but I have
no personal experience with them yet.

Canon's dye ink prints usually look great. They are sometimes a
little brighter than some people like, but the "photo quality" would
be hard to argue.

They look much more subdued on Ilford Galerie Classic Pearl. This is
not a semi-gloss and not a semi-matte but something of a lustre but with
less texture. It looks great if you frame without glass and do not like
reflections. And it will fade faster than those behind glass but
putting this or matte behind glass covers up the finnish of the paper
and eliminates any reason to use any fine art paper.

The OEM inks have had a problem with fading. The newer Chromalife 100
inks are superior in those terms, but they are probably no better than
the Epson dye inks. They fade under light conditions.

Epson's Ultrachrome inks rarely clog and provide relatively good gamut.

Canon's currently marketed printers have a chip in their cartridges
that to my knowledge can't be fully over-riden in terms of refilling.

HOORAH


Epson's also use a chip monitor and are hard to refill, but the chip
can be reset with an inexpensive ($5-10) resetter.

Canon's head have a limited life usually about 18-24 months at
moderate use.

Well next month I will beat that so I do not know where your information
comes from. Already surpassed 20 months of moderate use.

Epson's heads are permanent, but if they clog, it can be more
difficult to deal with.

Canon's printers do not have as professional drivers as the Epson
models and don't have as many accessories like CI. Epsons have more
custom designed inks.

Prices are relatively equal in terms of equal quality models.

Not really. You can buy a Canon IP4300 for around $80 on sale but the
competing Epson 3XX is over $140.00.

 

[justin david]

If AE replies value his advice, meanwhile Google is your friend. Have
you tried it? Look for "printer reviews"

Lou

Yes I have looked at printer reviews. The professional reviews I read
about Canon printers have been very positive. But I bought a Dell
monitor based on professional reviews and it's a borderline piece of
shite. I thought I would check with people who have actually used the
printers to get an idea from those with hands on experience. I've
been interested in the Epson 800 which has gotten very good reviews
and was curious if there was a Canon equivalent. I'm not here to
waste peoples' time, so shove the Google is your friend stuff up your
ass.

 

[Lou]

Yes I have looked at printer reviews. The professional reviews I read
about Canon printers have been very positive. But I bought a Dell
monitor based on professional reviews and it's a borderline piece of
shite. I thought I would check with people who have actually used the
printers to get an idea from those with hands on experience. I've
been interested in the Epson 800 which has gotten very good reviews
and was curious if there was a Canon equivalent. I'm not here to
waste peoples' time, so shove the Google is your friend stuff up your
ass.

I gave you *very* good advice and you tell me to shove it??
Means you are probably not smart enough to understand the advice others
give you so good luck.

Lou
"For every question there is an answer that is obvious, simple, and wrong."
attributed to H. L. Mencken

 

[justin david]

I gave you *very* good advice and you tell me to shove it??
Means you are probably not smart enough to understand the advice others
give you so good luck.

Lou
"For every question there is an answer that is obvious, simple, and wrong."
attributed to H. L. Mencken

Google printer reviews was your good advice? You're not smart enough
to know what an assbowl you are.

 

[Lou]

Google printer reviews was your good advice? You're not smart enough
to know what an assbowl you are.

Speaking of not being smart, here is my original reply:
If AE replies value his advice, meanwhile Google is your friend.

FWIW AE (Arthur) *did* reply. Perhaps you have forgotten to take your
meds??

BTW Calling me names is further proof of your IQ level.

Lou

 

[zakezuke]

Yes I have looked at printer reviews. The professional reviews I read
about Canon printers have been very positive. But I bought a Dell
monitor based on professional reviews and it's a borderline piece of
shite. I thought I would check with people who have actually used the
printers to get an idea from those with hands on experience. I've
been interested in the Epson 800 which has gotten very good reviews
and was curious if there was a Canon equivalent.

There is no equilivent to the epson r800 in canon. Pigment inks for
consumer models will not be released for canon in some time... but this
would be for an a3 printer... which I "doubt" does rolls. If you want
canon, pigment ink, and rolls, think US$2000... to start, and that's a2
for the smallest one they offer.

You have to imagine that dell resells other people's stuff. They have
had decent trinitron tube monitors in the past, but that doesn't mean
that all dell's monitors are semi-decent trinitrons.

 

[TJ]

There is no equilivent to the epson r800 in canon. Pigment inks for
consumer models will not be released for canon in some time... but this
would be for an a3 printer... which I "doubt" does rolls. If you want
canon, pigment ink, and rolls, think US$2000... to start, and that's a2
for the smallest one they offer.

You have to imagine that dell resells other people's stuff. They have
had decent trinitron tube monitors in the past, but that doesn't mean
that all dell's monitors are semi-decent trinitrons.

<SIGH.> Yet another "relabeler," eh? They're everywhere, aren't they?

TJ

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I'm not here to

waste peoples' time, so shove the Google is your friend stuff up your
ass.

You are apparently not here to make any friends, either. Rather than
insulting people who are trying to provide you with some methods to
research your query, you might have asked how a Google search could
provide you with additional information beyond professional reviews,
which you don't trust.

Had you done so, you probably would have been informed that once you
determined which Canon model most closely corresponds with the Epson
R800 (be aware Epson has also made two other inkjet printers with the
800 model number, the original black only Stylus 800 (and 800+), and the
8 year old or so, Stylus Color 800, besides the more recent R800, which
uses Ultrachrome Glossy inks and has a CMYRBKK-matte+GLOP inkset) that
you could have then checked the many retail website and other forums
which invite and log user comments and reviews. This might have
provided you with a broader scale of users than this newsgroup can offer.

Asking the correct questions (and providing more complete background of
what you are after) usually leads to more useful information.

Alienating people who may be able to broaden your knowledge base seems a
lot less effective.

Art

 

[Lou]

I'm not here to

You are apparently not here to make any friends, either. Rather than
insulting people who are trying to provide you with some methods to
research your query, you might have asked how a Google search could
provide you with additional information beyond professional reviews,
which you don't trust.

Had you done so, you probably would have been informed that once you
determined which Canon model most closely corresponds with the Epson
R800 (be aware Epson has also made two other inkjet printers with the
800 model number, the original black only Stylus 800 (and 800+), and the
8 year old or so, Stylus Color 800, besides the more recent R800, which
uses Ultrachrome Glossy inks and has a CMYRBKK-matte+GLOP inkset) that
you could have then checked the many retail website and other forums
which invite and log user comments and reviews. This might have
provided you with a broader scale of users than this newsgroup can offer.

Asking the correct questions (and providing more complete background of
what you are after) usually leads to more useful information.

Alienating people who may be able to broaden your knowledge base seems a
lot less effective.

Art

Art,

In the old days there were Netscape groups where about 25 people
regularly answered questions (for free). Eventually those folks came to
be called Netscape Champions and were invited to a "First annual
Champions gathering" - at Netscape's expense. I was one of the
Champions, and even got the mugs for the group. Unfortunately shortly
thereafter Bill Gates woke up.
Art *You* are a true CHAMPION. Very knowledgeable with great class.
Thank You

Lou

 

[John McWilliams]

In the old days there were Netscape groups where about 25 people
regularly answered questions (for free). Eventually those folks came to
be called Netscape Champions and were invited to a "First annual
Champions gathering" - at Netscape's expense. I was one of the
Champions, and even got the mugs for the group. Unfortunately shortly
thereafter Bill Gates woke up.
Art *You* are a true CHAMPION. Very knowledgeable with great class.
Thank You

Agreed. He'd be perfect if he'd only bottom post, but I've brought that
up 3 times before, and he's politely and firmly said no.

So, he's the only Champion I read who does so.

--
John McWilliams

Netscape Champion

(joined shortly after the Mtn. View bonanza, but still have the mug and
shirts; live in the Bay Area....)

 

[Lou]

Agreed. He'd be perfect if he'd only bottom post, but I've brought that
up 3 times before, and he's politely and firmly said no.

So, he's the only Champion I read who does so.

Yup and Yup and Yup (only brought it up once)

Lou

 

[measekite]

Top posting is more efficient for those who continually read threads.
That is one thing I do agree with him on.

You do not have to scroll to read this BUT
....
....
....

Agreed. He'd be perfect if he'd only bottom post, but I've brought
that up 3 times before, and he's politely and firmly said no.

So, he's the only Champion I read who does so.

You do have to scroll to read this.

 

[Edwin Pawlowski]

You do not have to scroll to read this BUT

You do have to scroll to read this.

Not if you snip properly