approx. what temperature causes pain to human skin?

[Ron Reaugh]

That's not actually an "ambient temperature", its the temperature of the air
flowing over the disk, which air might have been circulating around inside
a computer for a bit.

It's neither and HD mfgs don't use the word ambient. The spec is the max
case(casting) temp.

 

[larrymoencurly]

It's neither and HD mfgs don't use the word ambient. The spec
is the max case(casting) temp.

The 7200 RPM HDs I measured with a thermometer ran at 50-53C in 25C
ambient air, and because many case interiors are 10C hotter, doesn't
that mean that those HDs would run at 60-63C inside them and exceed
the 55C maximum casting temp?

 

[Ron Reaugh]

"Ron Reaugh" <[email protected]> wrote in message

The 7200 RPM HDs I measured with a thermometer ran at 50-53C in 25C
ambient air, and because many case interiors are 10C hotter, doesn't
that mean that those HDs would run at 60-63C inside them and exceed
the 55C maximum casting temp?

YES, so how does one get the casting in 25C ambient air down to 40C or
less...import a hurricane...give it a blow job...buy a
fan/drive-cooler...DUH!
In 35C ambient air then get MORE BIGGER fans.

 

[J. Clarke]

The 7200 RPM HDs I measured with a thermometer ran at 50-53C in 25C
ambient air, and because many case interiors are 10C hotter, doesn't
that mean that those HDs would run at 60-63C inside them and exceed
the 55C maximum casting temp?

Actually, there are several temperatures given in the docs.

Taking the "Cheetah 15k.3 SCSI Disk Drive ST373453LW/LC ST336753LW/LC
ST318453LW/LC Product Manual"
<http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/manuals/scsi/100148123b.pdf> as an
example, on page 42 they state: "Cabinet cooling must be designed by the
customer so that the ambient temperature immediately surrounding the drive
will not exceed temperature conditions specified in Section 6.4.1,
'Temperature.'"

Sectin 6.4.1 states "With cooling designed to maintain the case
temperatures, the drive meets all specifications over a 41F to
131F (5C to 55C) drive ambient temperature range with a maximum temperature
gradient of 36F (20C) per hour." but then they go on to say "The MTBF
specification for the drive is based on operating in an environment that
ensures that the case temperatures are not exceeded. Occasional excursions
to drive ambient temperatures of 122°F (50°C) or 41°F (5°C) may occur
without impact to specified MTBF."

Then finally they get to the allowable temperature for the drive itself:
"The maximum allowable continuous or sustained HDA case temperature for the
rated MTBF is 122F (50C)." Then they modify that with "The maximum
allowable HDA case temperature is 60C. Operation of the drive at the
maximum case temperature is intended for short time periods only."

And they have a diagram "HDA Temperature Check Point" which shows that the
temperature is to be measured on the metal capsule just above the connector
and two inches from the left edge of the drive viewed from the end with the
connector and oriented with the circuit board down.

 

[larrymoencurly]

It's neither and HD mfgs don't use the word ambient. The spec
is the max case(casting) temp.


YES, so how does one get the casting in 25C ambient air down
to 40C or less...import a hurricane...give it a blow job...buy a
fan/drive-cooler...DUH!
In 35C ambient air then get MORE BIGGER fans.

According to www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/d7k250/d7k250.htm , for
Hitachi's DK250 series ATA and SATA drives:

"Environmental characteristics
Operating
Ambient temperature 5° to 55° C 5° to 55° C"

So what do you mean HD manufacturers don't use the word "ambient"? On
that web page they don't even mention the temperature of the metal
casting.

Aren't you also the person who suggested that hard drives could be
made quieter by running their heads in a vacuum? How do you keep the
heads super-close to the platters that way without crashes?

 

[J. Clarke]

According to www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/d7k250/d7k250.htm , for
Hitachi's DK250 series ATA and SATA drives:

"Environmental characteristics
Operating
Ambient temperature 5° to 55° C 5° to 55° C"

So what do you mean HD manufacturers don't use the word "ambient"? On
that web page they don't even mention the temperature of the metal
casting.

You need to get the full spec,
<http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/17351B59F3028F4486256D3D0065D995>,
which says in section 6.2.1 "The system is responsible for providing
sufficient ventilation to maintain a surface temperature below 60°C at the
center of the top cover of the drive." Beyond that they have a maximum
wet-bulb ambient of 29.4C listed, with a chart showing how that corresponds
to the dry bulb temperature at various humidity levels. The humidity in my
house at the moment is 43 percent so according to their chart I would want
to keep the ambient temperature of the air flowing around the drive at
about 40C. If the humidity goes up to 90% then the ambient has to be below
31C.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

"Ron Reaugh" <[email protected]> wrote in message

According to www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/d7k250/d7k250.htm , for
Hitachi's DK250 series ATA and SATA drives:

"Environmental characteristics
Operating
Ambient temperature 5° to 55° C 5° to 55° C"

So what do you mean HD manufacturers don't use the word "ambient"? On
that web page they don't even mention the temperature of the metal
casting.

Clueless. Here's some real specs:
http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/tech...F3819BDB86256CE9005AB0B9/$file/d7k250P_sp.pdf
"
6.4.3 Start/stop cycles

The drive withstands a minimum of 50,000 start/stop cycles in a 40° C
environment and a minimum of 10,000

start/stop cycles in extreme temperature or humidity within the operating
range. See Table 20: "Temperature and

humidity" on page 28 and Figure 5: "Limits of temperature and humidity" on
page 28.

"

Aren't you also the person who suggested that hard drives could be
made quieter by running their heads in a vacuum?

Yep and there's always a gullible slow learner in every NG:
"From: Ron Reaugh ([email protected])
Subject: Re: How do they make hard drives spin quieter? (other than use
fluid bearings)



Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Date: 2004-05-12 13:19:52 PST

Evacuate all the air/gas from the case hi-vac and that makes the heads fly
much closer to the surface too. A vacuum wont transmit sound. The allows
for using new optical-acoustic techniques to read the data as the heads see
and feel the data."From my next post in the same thread cretin:"I still like
the part about the new head design where it "sees" the sparks
and "feels" the bumps<VBG>."> How do you keep the> heads super-close to the
platters that way without crashes?Dark energy!

 

[Ron Reaugh]

Clueless. Here's some real specs:
http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/tech...F3819BDB86256CE9005AB0B9/$file/d7k250P_sp.pdf
"
6.4.3 Start/stop cycles

The drive withstands a minimum of 50,000 start/stop cycles in a 40° C
environment and a minimum of 10,000

start/stop cycles in extreme temperature or humidity within the operating
range. See Table 20: "Temperature and

humidity" on page 28 and Figure 5: "Limits of temperature and humidity" on
page 28.

"

Yep and there's always a gullible slow learner in every NG:
"From: Ron Reaugh ([email protected])
Subject: Re: How do they make hard drives spin quieter? (other than use
fluid bearings)



Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Date: 2004-05-12 13:19:52 PST

Evacuate all the air/gas from the case hi-vac and that makes the heads fly
much closer to the surface too. A vacuum wont transmit sound. The allows
for using new optical-acoustic techniques to read the data as the heads see
and feel the data.

 

[Marc de Vries]

[snip]
Most harddisk specs list 55 degrees as ambient temperatures. Please
tell the HD manufacturers that they are wrong!

Something is clearly wrong here. There's hardly anywhere on Earth
outside an oven where the ambient air temperature reaches 55C.
(Or is that "55 degrees" meant to be 55F? -- I guess that would
explain it!

That's not actually an "ambient temperature", its the temperature of the air
flowing over the disk, which air might have been circulating around inside
a computer for a bit.

It's neither and HD mfgs don't use the word ambient. The spec is the max
case(casting) temp.

Next time you bother to reply, first check the facts:
http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/d7k250/d7k250.htm

Environmental characteristics
Operating
Ambient temperature 5° to 55° C 5° to 55° C

Maxtor doesn't lit the word ambient, but lists the same figures also
under the header "Environmental characteristics".
http://www.maxtor.com/_files/maxtor/en_us/documentation/data_sheets/diamondmax_plus_9_data_sheet.pdf
"Environmental characteristics" clearly doesn't point to the HD case
itself. Unless you want to explain the humidity of a HD case.

But as usual you will probably ignore the specifications the HD
manufacturers give themselves.

And for J. Clarke it proves that we are indeed talking about 55
degrees Celsius. (Which is not all that difficult to reach in a
computer case in which the harddisk resides)

Marc

 

[Marc de Vries]

Clueless.

Do you want to claim that the above specs are "not real"
The Hitachi website has some pages with real specs and some with fake
specs?
You'd better inform them that they have fake specs on their site. I
bet they will be forever grateful to you for pointing that out to
them!

Here's some real specs:
http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/tech...F3819BDB86256CE9005AB0B9/$file/d7k250P_sp.pdf
"
6.4.3 Start/stop cycles

The drive withstands a minimum of 50,000 start/stop cycles in a 40° C
environment and a minimum of 10,000

Talk about clueless.
These numbers don't say anything about the maximum temperature the
drive can work in. It just tells you that the number of 50.000
start/stop cycles applies to a situation where there is a 40 degree
environment.
With other temperatures the minimum start/stop cycles figure can be
different, so you can't make claims against them when it doesn't reach
50.00 start/stop cycles in a 50 degree environment (Standard procedure
for all these tests)

start/stop cycles in extreme temperature or humidity within the operating
range. See Table 20: "Temperature and

humidity" on page 28 and Figure 5: "Limits of temperature and humidity" on
page 28.

"

Yep and there's always a gullible slow learner in every NG:

We already know that you are. You don't have to keep proving it to us
again and again and again.

Marc

 

[Marc de Vries]

Actually, there are several temperatures given in the docs.

Taking the "Cheetah 15k.3 SCSI Disk Drive ST373453LW/LC ST336753LW/LC
ST318453LW/LC Product Manual"
<http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/manuals/scsi/100148123b.pdf> as an
example, on page 42 they state: "Cabinet cooling must be designed by the
customer so that the ambient temperature immediately surrounding the drive
will not exceed temperature conditions specified in Section 6.4.1,
'Temperature.'"

Sectin 6.4.1 states "With cooling designed to maintain the case
temperatures, the drive meets all specifications over a 41F to
131F (5C to 55C) drive ambient temperature range with a maximum temperature
gradient of 36F (20C) per hour." but then they go on to say "The MTBF
specification for the drive is based on operating in an environment that
ensures that the case temperatures are not exceeded. Occasional excursions
to drive ambient temperatures of 122°F (50°C) or 41°F (5°C) may occur
without impact to specified MTBF."

There is a difference between the max temperature a drive can
withstand and the value at which MTBF is influenced.

Then finally they get to the allowable temperature for the drive itself:
"The maximum allowable continuous or sustained HDA case temperature for the
rated MTBF is 122F (50C)." Then they modify that with "The maximum
allowable HDA case temperature is 60C. Operation of the drive at the
maximum case temperature is intended for short time periods only."

Actually it is not a modification.
sustained max HDA case temperature is 50 C and for short periods it
can withstand 60 C.
That applies to most devices.

 

[Marc de Vries]

Anybody who reads the thread can see that for themselves.

Since there wasn't any proof in the thread at that time, there wasn't
anything to see for anybody.

No, you simply can't read HD specs.

I've already proven that YOU cannot read them.
Hitachi and Seagate literally state: Ambient temperature.

Clueless.

You are the one who is clueless, and I will once again proof it:

See:
The Seagate 10K6 technical spec
http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/enterprise/tech/0,1084,538,00.html
"Operating Temperature (max) 55 deg C"

Now that's the case(casting) temperature and nothing about ambient as most
all HD mfgs specs show.
That's the drop dead case temp.

WRONG.
More detailed specs from the same drive:
http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/manuals/scsi/100195486a.pdf

Section 6.4.1:
With cooling designed to maintain the case temperatures, the drive
meets all specifications over a 41 F to 131 F (5C to 55C) drive
AMBIENT TEMPERATURE range with a maximum temperature gradient of 36F
(20C)

The rest of the section also clearly proof without any doubt that they
are talking about the ambient temperature and certainly not about the
case temperature of the HD itself. (J. Clarke also found this in the
specs of the 15K drive)

Run a drive at 40C case(casting) temp or less for max life.

Again wrong.

From the same section:
The maximum allowable continous or sustained HDA case temperature for
the rated MTBF is 122F (50C)

Hard facts keeping proving you wrong.

Nevertheless it can never hurt to keep temperatures down. And usually
a simple extra fan will be enough to keep temperatures at a lower
level.

Marc

 

[Ron Reaugh]

Phred wrote:

[snip]
Most harddisk specs list 55 degrees as ambient temperatures. Please
tell the HD manufacturers that they are wrong!

Something is clearly wrong here. There's hardly anywhere on Earth
outside an oven where the ambient air temperature reaches 55C.
(Or is that "55 degrees" meant to be 55F? -- I guess that would
explain it!

That's not actually an "ambient temperature", its the temperature of

the
air

flowing over the disk, which air might have been circulating around inside
a computer for a bit.

It's neither and HD mfgs don't use the word ambient. The spec is the max
case(casting) temp.

Next time you bother to reply, first check the facts:
http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/d7k250/d7k250.htm

Clueless.

All the detailed specs get back to drive case temperature as numerous posts
in this thread prove. Keep that case/casting temperature <=40C for max
drive life.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

The wacko impeaches himself again.

"Marc de Vries" <[email protected]> wrote in message

 

[Ron Reaugh]

There is a difference between the max temperature a drive can
withstand and the value at which MTBF is influenced.

Any idiot who has been reading the thread already knows that.

Keep the case temperature of a HD at 40C or less for max life.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

This guy doesn't have a clue about HDs and engineering.

"Marc de Vries" <[email protected]> wrote in message

 

[J. Clarke]

There is a difference between the max temperature a drive can
withstand and the value at which MTBF is influenced.

If you object to Seagate's statement then don't tell me, tell Seagate. In
any case, they got to that.

Actually it is not a modification.
sustained max HDA case temperature is 50 C and for short periods it
can withstand 60 C.
That applies to most devices.

You're quibbling over a word here. What word would you use to describe a
statement which provides additional information to that provided by a
previous statement?

 

[J. Clarke]

Marc, just a hint. Review Ron's posting history and you may come to the
conclusion that he's a 'bot that at random intervals responds to posts by
randomly interjecting "clueless" into them. Arguing with Ron is like
trying to teach a pig to sing--it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

 

[chrisv]

The wacko impeaches himself again.

Good to see you finally admit it, Ron.

Say, Ron, did you ever change you mind about the quality of the last
few generations of IBM harddrive? As I recall, you were quite adamant
in your defense of IBM's quality.

 

[chrisv]

This guy doesn't have a clue about HDs and engineering.

We know you don't, Rod^Hn.