Apple Dumps IBM/ Does Apple Have A Secret Plan?

[keith]

I wonder how many are like me, hanging on to an ancient Nokia because it
works, seems to be almost indestructible (I've sent it bouncing across
parking lots more then once by overenthusiastic arm waving) and because
we just don't care about music, cameras, etc.

I've looked at upgrading my LGs, but the new phones aren't as good as the
one I have. The problem is that batteries are almost as expensive as a
new phone (though I'd have to sign a contract for another year - mine
ran out in January). Both are going to need batteries soon.

For me, the cell phone is just a phone. I don't need or want anything
else.

Of course, I'm not a music fan, not a sports fan, and don't take
pictures. I imagine most folks would match at least two of those, so
I'm surely a tiny minority.

I'm pretty much the same, though I'd like a PDA. I'm considering a
Trio600, though I'm not sure it's the right solution. In any case I don't
want to carry both a phone and a PDA. OTOH, I sometimes carry my XMRadio
to work so I can listen to stuff I recorded the night before.

Now, if and when it gets to the point where I can magically have a full
size virtual keyboard and screen projected from it, and the storage that
you note, maybe then I'll feel differently about it.

You aren't the only one! ;-)

 

[keith]

Yeah, recently (in the last several years) they've taken to calling
what they used to call IBM PC-compatibles as Wintel machines. Then the
Linux advocates objected saying Linux also runs on these machines, so
the term Lintel was born. AMD supporters are also correct in saying
that the *tel part (referring to Intel) is not accurrate either. There
really is only one common denominator amongst all of these machines and
that is that it includes an x86-compatible processor, either from AMD
or Intel or somebody else. So the most generic and accurate term is x86
computer.

How's your nomenclature work if Apple makes non-Win compatable systems
(and surely they will)?

Even with the addition of the 64-bit extensions to x86, it would still
be considered part of the x86 family. If however you want to refer to
just the 64-bit extensions in isolation of the rest of x86, then you can
call it generically x64 (which is short for x86-64).

I prefer to call it AMD64, since AMD is responsible for the extensions.

 

[Seydou Bangoura]

Carlos answered the question previously. He said to use PC
architecture. The x86 architecture term doesn't work either since
Apple's PC's will be running on x86 architecture with their Intel
chips.

Seydou Bangoura
Rob Sones

 

[Tom Harrington]

Do you really think they can be competative in this market? I don't.

Well, for what it's worth, Apple has owned that domain name since 1999,
so it's hardly breaking news. It looks more like a preemptive strike to
prevent someone else from getting the name than an indication of product
plans.

But as for what's next? What's next is brand extension on the iPod
name. Maybe a phone _isn't_ in the works, but you can be sure there are
currently prototypes of new devices that could bear the iPod name,
without being simply a rehash of the current iPod idea. A phone seems
like an obvious choice, but if that doesn't happen, something else will.

 

[YKhan]

Carlos answered the question previously. He said to use PC
architecture. The x86 architecture term doesn't work either since
Apple's PC's will be running on x86 architecture with their Intel
chips.

Well yes, welcome to the world of x86 PCs, because that's what a
Macintosh will become now. The Apple PCs will be able to run all of the
same OSes that current x86 PCs run, such as Windows, Linux, and
Solaris. The only difference would be that they would have one
additional OS that they could run that the other can't which is Mac OS.
If you want to distinguish yourself from the rest of the x86's, then
perhaps retaining the term Macintosh or Mac OS PC would do?

Yousuf Khan

 

[Tony Hill]

Do you really think they can be competative in this market? I don't.

Why not? The iPod continues to sell very well, despite the fact that
many other companies are offering similar devices with more features
and cheaper prices. However other MP3 players just don't have that
certain Apple appeal. Apple has a pretty good sense of making
products that people really want and marketing them well enough that
people are willing to pay a bit of a premium for them.

The mobile phone market is a bit different than most other markets
that Apple has gone after so far, but I definitely think it's one that
they could enter into and compete effectively in.

It's also not the only market that I see them entering into. I can
definitely see the possibility of them getting into some sort of
set-top box home entertainment unit. Only problem here is that I
think someone already has the trademark on 'iTV' :>

 

[Tony Hill]

I've only had one (two actually) for a year and a half. They got cheaper
than land-lines, so I dumped the land-lines.

If it weren't for the fact that I need a land-line in order to get DSL
(and that's DSL through a third-party reseller at that) I probably
wouldn't have a land-line. When I move in August/Sept. timeframe I
may tempt fate and try my hand with cable internet again, dumping the
land-line.

I despise phone calls
and rarely use the phone, other than to talk to my mother once a
week or so.

Having worked in call centers in the past, I grew to loath speaking on
the phone! :>

Our prime-time minutes are in the single-digits per month (one
in January, three in Feb . The two of us notwithstanding, there are a
few hundred million cell phones out there that are in a big need of
replacement (according to Moto, Nokia, etc.) and no one wants to carry a
second device. It's the obvious place to put the MP3 player. All the
phone is lacking is storage.

Mine is one of those few hundred million phones in need of replacement
(the OS on the damn thing crashes on a regular basis!). I'm one that
would DEFINITELY be interested in a phone that doubles as an MP3
player. I would MUCH rather see that then a phone with a built-in
digital camera (which mostly take super-low-quality pics anyway).

What I would really like is a phone that works well as a phone, has
512MB of flash storage for an MP3 player as well as being able to work
as a bog-standard USB key-drive and that has limited PDA functionality
(basically just the calendar and address book that most phones have
these days) I would be pretty well set.

As luck would have it, the newest round of phones from Moto, Nokia,
Ericsson et. al seem to fit the bill nicely, though finding the right
combination of features, mobile service and price is a bit tricky. It
may be that I'll need delay such a purchase until the features I'm
looking for filter down a bit.

 

[andrewunix]

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 07:48:46 -0400, (e-mail address removed) suggested:
: In article <[email protected]>,
:
:> In article <[email protected]>,
:>
:> > In article <[email protected]>,
:> >
:> > > Which viewpoint do you agree with, if any? Please provide appropriate
:> > > criticisms and arguments, as this assignment will be evaluated based on
:> > > the quality of discussion and feedback.
:> >
:> > What did "Deep Throat" say? "Follow the money." Where does Apple make
:> > its money?
:>
:> iPods and iTunes Store
:
: From <http://www.thestreet.com/_tscs/stocks/troywolverton/10229241.html>
:
: "Even with iPod sales booming, sales of Macintosh computers still
: brought in $3.1 billion in revenue, or 46% of Apple's total sales, in
: the first six months of its fiscal year. In contrast, during that time
: period, Apple garnered just $251 million, or less than 4% of its total
: revenue, from sales of software, including its Mac OS."

Revenue != Profit. How do the numbers compare when you take margins into
account?

 

[Scott Ellsworth]

NB - the following may come off as hostile. It is not meant so - I
would advise a bit of massaging of your text to more clearly make the
points you want to make.

I might also suggest a bit of massaging of your text to make it clearer
why you are saying what you are saying, and to add a bit more analysis
and support for your contentions. At this point, much of what you have
said is just a restatement of other web sites, along with some slightly
fuzzy text assigning motives. For example, "It is Jobs belief that" is
making a statement of SJ's opinions, and we do not really know them.
What we _do_ know is what he said on stage, so say "At WWDC 2005, he
said ...", then follow it with "At this point, Apple is shipping a 1.67
GHz powerbook, which competes with Intel products at 3.something GHz.
Benchmarks indicate that the gap is narrower than this might indicate
<reference here>, but the gap between desktop and laptop Macintosh
speeds is widening. <timeline here>"

This then gives people something specific to argue with. Essentially,
without that, and without hard, practical statements to back those
arguments up, people will not see things worth debating. (In other
words, while you 'agree on some aspects of the switch', the previous
paragraph consists only of potential problems, all of which have been
debated already.)

I understand what you are saying, providing hard facts to back up
statements. There is a lot of hard facts to back up statements, via
bench marks etc., like say an AMD vs Intel discussion. However you have
to consider the nature of this topic. Right now it's all speculation
but in a few years the real reasons why the switch was done will
probably be revealed.[/QUOTE]

Yes and no - when I read your page, it was not clear to me which
statements were inference, which were paraphrase, and which were quotes.
I was at the keynote, and I do not recall any statement about Job's
beliefs, but I do recall some definitive statements about the market
direction. (He may have said otherwise in follow-on interviews.)
Changing that phrasing from 'Jobs believes' to 'In his WWDC 2005
keynote, SJ said....' and 'From that, Robert and I infer different
things. I take this to mean ..., while he takes it to mean...' would
make your breakpoint, and your reasoning clearer, and thus give someone
something to debate.

By they way, I am not trying to harp on 'believe'. There were several
spots where you shifted from quotes to paraphrases to opinion, without
clear distinction. For example, 'He believed that there was some
stagnation in delivering high performance products to consumers and IBM
was holding them back.' is unclear to me - did he state that IBM was
holding back product, which was how I first interpreted this line, or
did he state that their slower than expected delivery was holding back
Apple's progress.

Similarly, I thought the statement 'Technically there are a several
disadvantages in regards to this switch' was unsupported, in that you
really only named one disadvantage, as best as I can tell, and did not
provide any factual information about how important that would end up
being. The following paragraph seemed instead to support the contention
that 'Those already using XCode should see a very fast port, but those
still using Metrowerk CodeWarrior will not, as they have to convert to
XCode first, and then they have to address endian issues just like
current xcode projects.' - insert quote from CW developer here -
'Further, since these are older code bases, they are more likely to have
unsupported technology.

Assuming, of course, that this _is_ a fair summary of that paragraph.

For our report we decided that the "hard facts"
was what CEO of Apple said at his recent keynote conference. We did not
make up anything. After that it was followed by speculation of the
implications of the switch. Our main purpose was to create a healthy
discussion. You do not need to be an expert. For example there could
have been something that we missed or said incorrectly.

A healthy discussion requires definitive statements, if only so that
people have something to discuss. THis does not mean that it has to be
dry or purely technical, just that you need to be very clear about when
you are switching from quotes and paraphrase to interpretation. I found
it difficult to tell just when you were speculating, and when you were
quoting, and I found that it was hard for me to determine just what
points you were adding to the debate.

Breaking the paragraphs up more, and being clearer about transitions
might help make that more clear.

quoting Ward McFarlane on my other thread: [DRM]

This comment makes a lot of sense. Apple's success with Itunes,
actually getting people to buy music rather than steal it is
unbelievable. If they use the same model for movies, it could change
the movie industry forever. However software DRM has not been received
kindly kindly by consumers, and hardware DRM is another story.

I am not sure how unkindly it has been received - I know half a dozen
people buying music from the ITMS than on CD now, and some that had
stopped buying music because of RIAA action who are doing so again.
Balance this against one person opposed to the ITMS for DRM reasons, and
I am not sure this comes out as a poor reception.

(NB - this is what I was talking about above. The contention 'not
received kindly' seems a bit unsupported to me, as I am not sure why you
are saying that. I could believe it is from news, blogs, FSF press
releases, or personal experience, and I could make my own judgement
about the credibility of any of the above, were I to know where you got
the information that led to that interpretation.)

Again, I am really not trying to rip on you or what you wrote, I just
think you will get a more interesting response if you write something a
bit clearer.

Take it for what you paid for it.

Scott

 

[RobertS]

NB - the following may come off as hostile. It is not meant so - I
would advise a bit of massaging of your text to more clearly make the
points you want to make.
...
Again, I am really not trying to rip on you or what you wrote, I just
think you will get a more interesting response if you write something a
bit clearer.

Take it for what you paid for it.

No problem and no offence taken. You are the 2nd person to comment of
this. Your comments are helpful and welcomed. Keeping this in mind
will help us in our presentation. Thank you.

Robert Sones
Seydou Bangoura

 

[RobertS]

NB - the following may come off as hostile. It is not meant so - I
would advise a bit of massaging of your text to more clearly make the
points you want to make.
...
Again, I am really not trying to rip on you or what you wrote, I just
think you will get a more interesting response if you write something a
bit clearer.

Take it for what you paid for it.

No problem and no offence taken. You are the 2nd person to comment of
this. Your comments are helpful and welcomed. Keeping this in mind
will help us in our presentation. Thank you.

Robert Sones
Seydou Bangoura

 

[Heiko Recktenwald]

iPods and iTunes Store

Aka TCPA...


It may be bad, but it is less ridiculous than those
"parents pay for their kids that they stay legal" ideas..

 

[Scott Ellsworth]

No problem and no offence taken. You are the 2nd person to comment of
this. Your comments are helpful and welcomed. Keeping this in mind
will help us in our presentation. Thank you.

Quite welcome.

Good luck on the presentation.

Scott

 

[keith]

If it weren't for the fact that I need a land-line in order to get DSL
(and that's DSL through a third-party reseller at that) I probably
wouldn't have a land-line. When I move in August/Sept. timeframe I
may tempt fate and try my hand with cable internet again, dumping the
land-line.

Yeah, I'm kinda in that corner now too. I've had cable access for about
six years now, but dearly want to dump my cable company. THere really
isn't anywhere else to turn for Inet though. I couldn't do xDSL if I
wanted to, and satellite is more absurd tham my cable company. While I'm
sorta stuck with cable I still save money with them as and ISP (vs a
second POTS line) and two cell phones (vs the first POTS line).

Having worked in call centers in the past, I grew to loath speaking on
the phone! :>

I've never had to stoop quite so low. ;-)

Mine is one of those few hundred million phones in need of replacement
(the OS on the damn thing crashes on a regular basis!). I'm one that
would DEFINITELY be interested in a phone that doubles as an MP3 player.
I would MUCH rather see that then a phone with a built-in digital
camera (which mostly take super-low-quality pics anyway).

I have no clue what I'd do with the steenkin' camera-phone. Many places
they're forbidden, including where I work (though I see them all the
time). I'm not big on MP3 players either, but a nice pseudo-USB stick
would be sweet. I'd even like one to *accept* one for storage.

What I would really like is a phone that works well as a phone, has
512MB of flash storage for an MP3 player as well as being able to work
as a bog-standard USB key-drive and that has limited PDA functionality
(basically just the calendar and address book that most phones have
these days) I would be pretty well set.

A PDA would be good. I've been seriously looking at the Trio 600/650, but
I'm not quite convinced. All I need, on top of the cell phone
functionality. is a decent note-pad and some decent security.

As luck would have it, the newest round of phones from Moto, Nokia,
Ericsson et. al seem to fit the bill nicely, though finding the right
combination of features, mobile service and price is a bit tricky. It
may be that I'll need delay such a purchase until the features I'm
looking for filter down a bit.

Again, I kinda like the Palm Trios, but the keyboard is a little small. I
may rather do the grafiti thing.

 

[keith]

Well yes, welcome to the world of x86 PCs, because that's what a
Macintosh will become now. The Apple PCs will be able to run all of the
same OSes that current x86 PCs run, such as Windows, Linux, and
Solaris.

....and you know this how? I find this incredible! If true, Jobs needs a
checkup from the neckup!

The only difference would be that they would have one
additional OS that they could run that the other can't which is Mac OS.
If you want to distinguish yourself from the rest of the x86's, then
perhaps retaining the term Macintosh or Mac OS PC would do?

Amazing! From over-priced hardware to get the OS and software to
commodity hardware and ?what? priced software? I don't see this model
working.

 

[Ernie Klein]

Well yes, welcome to the world of x86 PCs, because that's what a
Macintosh will become now. The Apple PCs will be able to run all of the
same OSes that current x86 PCs run, such as Windows, Linux, and
Solaris.

...and you know this how? I find this incredible! If true, Jobs needs a
checkup from the neckup!
[/QUOTE]

Because they said so... But not in so many words. At the San
Francisco conference where the announcement to use Intel chips, they
were asked if Apple's OS X would run on non-Apple built computers and if
Windows would run on Apple built computers; they said that OS X would
*only* run on Apple built computers, but they would do *nothing* to
_prevent_ Windows from running on Apple build computers.

From that you can infer that Linux and Solaris would probably also run,
although they didn't specifically mention them.

--
-Ernie-

"There are only two kinds of computer users -- those who have
suffered a catastrophic hard drive failure, and those who will."

Have you done your backup today?

 

[Tony Hill]

Yeah, I'm kinda in that corner now too. I've had cable access for about
six years now, but dearly want to dump my cable company. THere really
isn't anywhere else to turn for Inet though. I couldn't do xDSL if I
wanted to, and satellite is more absurd tham my cable company. While I'm
sorta stuck with cable I still save money with them as and ISP (vs a
second POTS line) and two cell phones (vs the first POTS line).

Fortunately DSL is quite widely available here (I actually get my TV
service through VDSL, in addition to the ADSL internet service). The
phone company provides the lines and there are dozens of ISPs to chose
from (for internet, telco is the only one for the TV stuff) to provide
the service. Sadly the same is not the case with the cable co.
Rogers is the one and only provider of cable internet here, and the
company leaves much to be desired on many levels.

I've never had to stoop quite so low. ;-)

You are fortunate indeed! Mind you, my old job is currently being
transitioned over to India, so perhaps I'll be part of a "lucky few"
group of North Americans for whom a call center was a standard
entry-level job!

A PDA would be good. I've been seriously looking at the Trio 600/650, but
I'm not quite convinced. All I need, on top of the cell phone
functionality. is a decent note-pad and some decent security.

For a while I was wanting a full-fledge PDA... until I realized that I
would probably be too lazy to use it! :>

Again, I kinda like the Palm Trios, but the keyboard is a little small. I
may rather do the grafiti thing.

The features of the Treos are nice, but their size and weight are a
bit large for my pockets. The one thing I do rather like about my
current phone is that it's very small. At 10.2 x 4.3 x 2.0cm and 85g
it's still smaller and lighter than almost all current phones, despite
being 2+ years old now.

 

[Tony Hill]

Because they said so... But not in so many words. At the San
Francisco conference where the announcement to use Intel chips, they
were asked if Apple's OS X would run on non-Apple built computers and if
Windows would run on Apple built computers; they said that OS X would
*only* run on Apple built computers, but they would do *nothing* to
_prevent_ Windows from running on Apple build computers.

From that you can infer that Linux and Solaris would probably also run,
although they didn't specifically mention them.

Or you could infer that Apple has absolutely no control over Linux,
Solaris or Windows and therefore has absolutely no control over
whether or not said OS would run on their hardware.

 

[keith]

Fortunately DSL is quite widely available here (I actually get my TV
service through VDSL, in addition to the ADSL internet service). The
phone company provides the lines and there are dozens of ISPs to chose
from (for internet, telco is the only one for the TV stuff) to provide
the service. Sadly the same is not the case with the cable co.
Rogers is the one and only provider of cable internet here, and the
company leaves much to be desired on many levels.

It's available "here" too, though I live too far from the CO. Adelphia
(gack) is the only answer. $160/mo isn't pretty.

You are fortunate indeed! Mind you, my old job is currently being
transitioned over to India, so perhaps I'll be part of a "lucky few"
group of North Americans for whom a call center was a standard
entry-level job!

I got hired out of college 1F years ago and they haven't let me loose yet.
I keep threatening to walk, but the baloon keeps dragging me back to
shore. ...maybe next year after the kid gets married. ;-)

For a while I was wanting a full-fledge PDA... until I realized that I
would probably be too lazy to use it! :>

I had a "Work Pad" for a few years. I'm not organized for such things,
but I now have upwards of a hundred IDs and passwords, so it would be
usefull to try to remember them.

The features of the Treos are nice, but their size and weight are a bit
large for my pockets. The one thing I do rather like about my current
phone is that it's very small. At 10.2 x 4.3 x 2.0cm and 85g it's still
smaller and lighter than almost all current phones, despite being 2+
years old now.

I often carry my XM radio, which is a bit larger than a Trio. A Trio
beats my LG4400 plus a PDA. I'm just not convinced the keyboard on the
Trio is what I want to live with. I got used to the graffiti on the
WorkPad, so the teensy keyboard (I looked at one in the local VZW store)
isn't all that interesting, I don't think. <shrug>

 

[American Nihilist]

Apple just keeps making it easier to buy PCs. (lol)