Aging low-end laser: refill or replace?

[Mike S.]

We have Konica/Minolta PagePro 1250W which was purchased on the cheap when
on close-out at Staples. Beyond some annoying design defects (like a
hanging paper feed shelf which is prone to break at the hinge) it produces
very nice output at higher resolution than similar B&W lasers in this
price class.

We're now at the 4th spent toner cartridge, and my wake-up call came when
Staples didn't have the replacement in stock on the store shelf anymore.
Sure; I can order it with free shipping; but this gave me pause to think
about the wisdom of continuing to feed it.

The drum and toner are separate assemblies; so we're still on the
original drum. How many toner cartridges expected before the usage is
enough to require drum replacement? The cost of toner + drum durely
exceeds the value of the printer (heck - saw a Samsung low end laser for
$49.95 yesterday).

What would you do?

 

[LF]

We have Konica/Minolta PagePro 1250W <snip> it produces
very nice output at higher resolution <snip>
We're now at the 4th spent toner cartridge <snip> we're still  on the
original drum. <snip>

What would you do?

I'd refill the toner cartridge for about $15, over and over, until the
drum started showing signs of failure
<http://tinyurl.com/8b2r3d>. Then I'd probably get another refurb
Brother laser printer. I've had good experiences with them, and they
refill easily -- high capacity for about $11delivered <http://
tinyurl.com/7vm65p>.

Best,
Larry

 

[Joel]

(e-mail address removed) (Mike S.) wrote:

The drum and toner are separate assemblies; so we're still on the
original drum. How many toner cartridges expected before the usage is
enough to require drum replacement? The cost of toner + drum durely
exceeds the value of the printer (heck - saw a Samsung low end laser for
$49.95 yesterday).

What would you do?

Just like the toner the DRUM has limited of its own life, or when it
reaches ##,### prints the printer may require you to replace or reset the
drum.

And just like inkjet cartridge the TONER can be refilled, you just need to
google for the price, instruction, and may give it a try. Or you can always
google for the 3rd party toner, drum which is usually much cheaper than the
original.

 

[Warren Block]

We have Konica/Minolta PagePro 1250W which was purchased on the cheap when
on close-out at Staples. Beyond some annoying design defects (like a
hanging paper feed shelf which is prone to break at the hinge) it produces
very nice output at higher resolution than similar B&W lasers in this
price class.

We're now at the 4th spent toner cartridge, and my wake-up call came when
Staples didn't have the replacement in stock on the store shelf anymore.
Sure; I can order it with free shipping; but this gave me pause to think
about the wisdom of continuing to feed it.

$82.99 for 3,000-page toner, and you don't even get a new drum for that.
That's very expensive to run. You've paid $332 to print 12,000 pages
for toner alone. A LJ4050 cartridge rated at 10,000 pages and including
a new drum is $135.49, less than half the per-page price. (That's from
Staples, but both are cheaper elsewhere.)

That "cheap" printer isn't saving you money.

Buying refilled toner or refilling it yourself may be practical to get a
little more operating life out of that printer. For me it would depend
on whether I can find a better printer for about the same cost as a
single toner change (probably).

The drum and toner are separate assemblies; so we're still on the
original drum. How many toner cartridges expected before the usage is
enough to require drum replacement? The cost of toner + drum durely
exceeds the value of the printer (heck - saw a Samsung low end laser for
$49.95 yesterday).

Replacing your current "cheap" printer with a newer "cheap" printer will
have the same problem. The Samsung is probably the ML-2510, another GDI
printer with 3,000-page toner refills at $83.99. Yikes. At least it
looks like a cartridge includes a drum.

What would you do?

Probably replace it with a used business-class laser with much lower
operating costs. Here's a thing I wrote on that a while back:

http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/usedlasers.pdf

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I have two of their 1350W printers I don't honestly know what the
difference is between the 1250W and mine.

With the 1350W, Konica Minolta has been incredibly irresponsible, IMHO
in regard to environmental considerations. From my discussion with one
of the upper end managers from their printer division, I'm not the least
bit surprised by their attitude.

On the 1350W (which what all my comments will be based upon), the toner
cartridge is very easy to refill, but you do, of course, need to make
sure you get the correct type of toner, as they are somewhat unique (the
3rd party distributors do sell toner they consider compatible). There
is a chip on the cartridge which is literally designed to burn out when
the cartridge is near empty. Once this chip is burned out, if you
refill, the printer continually nags you that you have an "expired" or
"out of service" cartridge, but you can click through this, and
eventually it will print, however, as an extra punishment for refilling,
the printer does lengthy cleaning cycles between each page, to slow the
printer down to about 1/4h the normal speed. This helps to wear down
components like the drum, wiper and such, and your patience.

Konica/Minolta claims this is done to "protect" your printer from being
damaged by inferior toners, which in fact it is just to inconvenience
people, and to wear their components out more quickly. Some of the
refilling/toner supply companies may offer that chip in the refill kit.

If you do decide to replace your printer, I'd personally stay aware from
Konica/Minolta due to their attitude about living in a toss away world.

PS: the printer comes with a half filled cartridge relative to the
replace cartridge models.

Art



If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[Mike S.]

Thanks for the suggestions, all.

If the 1350W has a chip in the cartridge to limit refilling options, I
wonder if our earlier 1250W does as well - that would limit the attraction
of trying to get it cheaply refilled. We may do so anyway, and if it craps
out use that as the reason to replace it with something more economical to
maintain.

There's a Cartridge World not far from us; I'll pass by there one day and
feel them out on this.

 

[Joel]

$82.99 for 3,000-page toner, and you don't even get a new drum for that.
That's very expensive to run. You've paid $332 to print 12,000 pages
for toner alone. A LJ4050 cartridge rated at 10,000 pages and including
a new drum is $135.49, less than half the per-page price. (That's from
Staples, but both are cheaper elsewhere.)

That "cheap" printer isn't saving you money.

Buying refilled toner or refilling it yourself may be practical to get a
little more operating life out of that printer. For me it would depend
on whether I can find a better printer for about the same cost as a
single toner change (probably).

It sounds like you have read so much information about inkjet to realize
that Inkjet and Laser are 2 different beasts.

Inkjet uses print-head which can cause some problem, but with laser the
whole thing is no more than the rollers, and toner. It requires few basic
requirements, and you still have to do it right like. The correct toner
type, make sure the toner get spreaded to the rollers evenly and clean etc.

Other then that if the roller is wear out, scratch etc. then you just toss
to trash can to replace with a working one. That's small personal printer,
now if you wanna talk about large printer (use in big company) then you may
see the toner are stored in a large bucket, and to refill is nor simpler
than just dump couple gallons of toner to the bucket.

Other than that I don't know much about it, cuz decades ago I worked for a
big company and I refilled the toner twice. And the printer was a little
larger than a computer desk.

 

[Joel]

Thanks for the suggestions, all.

If the 1350W has a chip in the cartridge to limit refilling options, I
wonder if our earlier 1250W does as well - that would limit the attraction
of trying to get it cheaply refilled. We may do so anyway, and if it craps
out use that as the reason to replace it with something more economical to
maintain.

There's a Cartridge World not far from us; I'll pass by there one day and
feel them out on this.

Please learn to QUOTE some of the original so other knows what you read
and understand so not to repeat what you already read.

In general, not many people have the 1350W to know what it's, but if you
are talking about the laser DRUM or TONER cartridge then.

- Toner Cartridge can be refilled until you feel it's about time to replace
with newer one. Or you can replace the ROLLER which is the main part of the
whole thing. Some original Toner Cartridge may not allow to be refilled so
you may need to start with a 3rd party toner cartridge

- Drummer, depending on the model the drummer can be limited to something
like 20,000 - ###,### depending on the printer. But if you feel like the
ROLLER is still good enough then you can always RESET which also require
when you change to newer drummer.

Or the printer will count the number of print and won't accept the newer
drummer until you reset it.

That's it, and forget all the "craps" you have in mind, or stop using the
"crap" word when asking for help.

 

[measekite]

I'm reviving this thread from late last year to give a followup and ask a
new question.

I ordered a refill kit specific to the Konica Minolta 1200/1300 series and
filled the toner cartridge before it ran out. For 4 months or so, the
printer output has been excellent - money well spent on the refill.

Lately my wife complains that the printed pages are covered with a very
light grey haze; and sure enough it is there. Adjusting the density using
the control panel applet doesn't seem to change it.

I removed the toner and drum cartridges and had a look. The drum is coated
with a light dust of toner; I don't remember this appearance as being
normal. I suppose this excess toner on the drum is related to the haze on
the printed pages.

I remembered discussions where proper refilling requires cleaning certain
parts of the cartridge, and wonder if this is a side effect of re-using a
toner cartridge not meant for extended use.

Anything else to look for?

You got what you paid for.

 

[Michael Johnson]

You got what you paid for.

What about that compatible photo paper you use? Did you get what you
paid for?

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

I ordered a refill kit specific to the Konica Minolta 1200/1300 series and
filled the toner cartridge before it ran out. For 4 months or so, the
printer output has been excellent - money well spent on the refill.

Lately my wife complains that the printed pages are covered with a very
light grey haze; and sure enough it is there. Adjusting the density using
the control panel applet doesn't seem to change it.

I removed the toner and drum cartridges and had a look. The drum is coated
with a light dust of toner; I don't remember this appearance as being
normal. I suppose this excess toner on the drum is related to the haze on
the printed pages.

I remembered discussions where proper refilling requires cleaning certain
parts of the cartridge, and wonder if this is a side effect of re-using a
toner cartridge not meant for extended use.

Anything else to look for?

If I had to guess, I would guess your drum is wearing out and picking
up a consistent back of toner, which gets transferred to the paper.

Regardless you're in the troubleshooting zone.

Replace with OEM Cartridge, if no work replace drum. You "could" do
this in reverse order and have a spare drum on hand, just these things
are light sensitive and a pain to store.

Given you're output is consistent, I'd lean toward the drum.

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

It is most unlikely that this is a drum problem, drums rarely fail like your
description.

Now that I think about it, the only time I had this issue was with a
TI micro laser. It was a unit that took bulk toner. It was in a
handy package, but it was still just bulk toner. I had both a drum
and developer issue, where the developer was like your cartridge.
Vertical streaks was the drum, the other issue was resolved by
replacing the developer.

I wasn't remembering correctly as I replaced both units.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Hi Tony and Mike,

Again, my comments are based upon the 1350 model. As I recall (I
haven't done a refill in a while) the toner cartridge doesn't have a
waste toner compartment.

However, (and now I'm running memory...never a safe bet for me at this
time of night) I believe this model doesn't have developer either, as it
doesn't use a magnetic roller with "fur". It uses a electro-static
plastic collar on a roller of some sort. The toner seems to be made of
a consistent non-metallic non-magnetic very fine plastic powder, so I
don;t think the problem is that the consistency of the toner is changing
over time due to loss of toner and increased developer.

However, I just looked at mine, and the drum unit has a number of
systems for cleaning the drum. It uses a wiper blade, as all do, but it
also uses a cylindrical brush made of electrostatic fibers that runs the
length of the drum. I am not absolutely sure, but under this brush
there may be a small waste toner compartment.

I suspect that, if the 1250W is designed similarly, that area has become
filled with waste toner and the electrostatic brush is over-burdened
with toner. The fix involves somewhat dismantling the drum unit to get
that toner powder out of that chamber and then carefully cleaning that
brush off. Unfortunately, I don't recall the full details on how to
dismantle it. If you decide to tackle it, be sure to keep the drum away
from bright light, low level incandescent light isn't too bad for short
periods of time, but UV light from the sun and halogen or fluorescent is
best avoided, care to avoid damaging the drum surface physically or with
oils (including fingerprints if possible). Use soft and non-abrasive
lint free rags or brushes to clean.

Also the electrostatic brush is made up of many small fibers, and you
should try not to damage them or flatten them.

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[Mike S.]

If I had to guess, I would guess your drum is wearing out and picking
up a consistent back of toner, which gets transferred to the paper.

Regardless you're in the troubleshooting zone.

Replace with OEM Cartridge, if no work replace drum. You "could" do
this in reverse order and have a spare drum on hand, just these things
are light sensitive and a pain to store.

Given you're output is consistent, I'd lean toward the drum.

That's what I feared. If you read the earlier part of this thread, I was
trying to avoid investing significant money in this aging, low-end
printer. A drum would cost more than a new unit ... so maybe it's time to
replace.

 

[Mike S.]

There are two possibilities.
1. The toner cartridge does not have a waste toner compartment (can you confirm
this?), if that is the case the waste toner is put back into the toner
cartridge main toner hopper, if this was not completely cleaned out when you
refilled the cartridge it will cause the problem you see. Waste toner has a
very high percentage of developer which in too high a proportion will cause
gray backgrounds.

Frankly; I wouldn't know what to look for.

2. The wiper (cleaner) blade in the drum unit is failing. This would however
not normally cause a uniform gray background but vertical streaks of gray on
the paper.

If I look closely, I see that the grey is not totally even; there are some
faint vertical streaks, and it is more dense at the edges of the paper
than the center.

 

[Mike S.]

Hi Tony and Mike,

Again, my comments are based upon the 1350 model. As I recall (I
haven't done a refill in a while) the toner cartridge doesn't have a
waste toner compartment.

Thanks - that saves me some futike searching.

However, (and now I'm running memory...never a safe bet for me at this
time of night) I believe this model doesn't have developer either, as it
doesn't use a magnetic roller with "fur". It uses a electro-static
plastic collar on a roller of some sort. The toner seems to be made of
a consistent non-metallic non-magnetic very fine plastic powder, so I
don;t think the problem is that the consistency of the toner is changing
over time due to loss of toner and increased developer.

However, I just looked at mine, and the drum unit has a number of
systems for cleaning the drum. It uses a wiper blade, as all do, but it
also uses a cylindrical brush made of electrostatic fibers that runs the
length of the drum. I am not absolutely sure, but under this brush
there may be a small waste toner compartment.

I suspect that, if the 1250W is designed similarly, that area has become
filled with waste toner and the electrostatic brush is over-burdened
with toner. The fix involves somewhat dismantling the drum unit to get
that toner powder out of that chamber and then carefully cleaning that
brush off. Unfortunately, I don't recall the full details on how to
dismantle it. If you decide to tackle it, be sure to keep the drum away
from bright light, low level incandescent light isn't too bad for short
periods of time, but UV light from the sun and halogen or fluorescent is
best avoided, care to avoid damaging the drum surface physically or with
oils (including fingerprints if possible). Use soft and non-abrasive
lint free rags or brushes to clean.

Sounds like more than I have the time/patience to tackle. Disassembly
instructions would help - I'll cruise the "fixyour own" sites in case this
has already been documented somewhere. I did dust off the drum with a clean
nonabrasive rag but the haze (and drum dusting) returned within a few pages.

Also the electrostatic brush is made up of many small fibers, and you
should try not to damage them or flatten them.

Eggh.

 

[GMAN]

You got what you paid for.

Someone ought to pay to give you what you deserve!

 

[Michael Johnson]

Someone ought to pay to give you what you deserve!

Has has gotten what he deserves. He is our village idiot.