Advice Please: Building A Simple "Back-up" System

[Darren Harris]

I'm going to attempt to put together a system that will use a
mirroring application for backing up.

The system will have three drives of equal size in the main case.(And
if I go SCSI, three more in an external case will be used for less
important data storage). The main three will all start out as
identical, with the operating system and the needed software
installed.

From there, the "E" drive will remain untouched for the most part
except on those rare occasions where a new app will need be installed,
but only after it has been used for a while on my main working "C"
drive.

However, the "C" drive will be mirrored to the "D" drive on a weekly
basis.

So, basically, all my work will be done on the "C" drive, with
occasional back-ups to the "D" drive. And "E" will only be used to to
bring the "C" drive back to it's original state in case anything goes
seriously wrong.

Question #1: Whether on or off the internet, will Windows normally
write to drives "D" and "E", even though I'm doing all my work on "C"?

Question #2: If so, can this be stopped? Will it require having the
ability to power down drives "D" and "E", even when the system is on?
And is this possible if all drives are in the same case?

Question 3: Can I get recommendations on which mirroring app is best
for what I want to do? I've narrowed it down to "Drive Image", and
"True Image", but are there any programs like these that can be run
from a floppy or CD, without having to install anything?

P.S.: I have some RAID hardware, but I realized that complexity makes
RAID a non-option. So since I already have SCSI hardware, I just may
stick with that.

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

 

[John]

I'm going to attempt to put together a system that will use a
mirroring application for backing up.

The system will have three drives of equal size in the main case.(And
if I go SCSI, three more in an external case will be used for less
important data storage). The main three will all start out as
identical, with the operating system and the needed software
installed.

From there, the "E" drive will remain untouched for the most part
except on those rare occasions where a new app will need be installed,
but only after it has been used for a while on my main working "C"
drive.

However, the "C" drive will be mirrored to the "D" drive on a weekly
basis.

So, basically, all my work will be done on the "C" drive, with
occasional back-ups to the "D" drive. And "E" will only be used to to
bring the "C" drive back to it's original state in case anything goes
seriously wrong.

Question #1: Whether on or off the internet, will Windows normally
write to drives "D" and "E", even though I'm doing all my work on "C"?

Question #2: If so, can this be stopped? Will it require having the
ability to power down drives "D" and "E", even when the system is on?
And is this possible if all drives are in the same case?

Question 3: Can I get recommendations on which mirroring app is best
for what I want to do? I've narrowed it down to "Drive Image", and
"True Image", but are there any programs like these that can be run
from a floppy or CD, without having to install anything?

P.S.: I have some RAID hardware, but I realized that complexity makes
RAID a non-option. So since I already have SCSI hardware, I just may
stick with that.

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

You could keep your backup drives in removable drawers (caddies).

You can run Norton Ghost (from a boot floppy) to make an exact copy of your
entire main
drive to whatever drawer you put into the PC. Restoring from one of the
backup drives is
just as easy.

If you start using SCSI and Firewire drives you might need DOS drivers for
them? I wouldn't
know.

 

[CWatters]

I do something similar but to an external USB2.0 drive that I built myself.
I figure that an external drive would survive a power supply failure in the
main PC. The USB 2.0 drive has about half the bandwidth of my internal drive
(both identical WD1200 drives) but it's still plenty fast enough.

I use "Drive Image" from PowerQuest to do scheduled backups from C: to the
external drive. I can fit several daily and one weekly backups on the
external 120G drive. You can tell DI how many copies to retain. You need to
allow room for one extra as it creates the new image before it deletes the
old one obviously. Each backup takes 13G and about 45 mins to do including a
verify.

My wifes computer is also backed up to the same USB drive over the LAN.

Note that it's not possible to schedule a Norton Ghost backup because Ghost
exits to a DOS like environment to do the backup (at least I never managed
to work out how to do it and I think even the FAQ says its not possible).

Colin

 

[Marc de Vries]

I'm going to attempt to put together a system that will use a
mirroring application for backing up.

The system will have three drives of equal size in the main case.(And
if I go SCSI, three more in an external case will be used for less
important data storage). The main three will all start out as
identical, with the operating system and the needed software
installed.

From there, the "E" drive will remain untouched for the most part
except on those rare occasions where a new app will need be installed,
but only after it has been used for a while on my main working "C"
drive.

However, the "C" drive will be mirrored to the "D" drive on a weekly
basis.

So, basically, all my work will be done on the "C" drive, with
occasional back-ups to the "D" drive. And "E" will only be used to to
bring the "C" drive back to it's original state in case anything goes
seriously wrong.

Question #1: Whether on or off the internet, will Windows normally
write to drives "D" and "E", even though I'm doing all my work on "C"?

Windows XP will do that for it's restore points and stuff.
You can turn it of for a drive, but I don't know by heart where that
is exactly.

Question #2: If so, can this be stopped? Will it require having the
ability to power down drives "D" and "E", even when the system is on?
And is this possible if all drives are in the same case?

Go to the power options in control panel, and there you can set after
how many minutes of inactivity it should turn a drive off.

Question 3: Can I get recommendations on which mirroring app is best
for what I want to do? I've narrowed it down to "Drive Image", and
"True Image", but are there any programs like these that can be run
from a floppy or CD, without having to install anything?

Are you sure you want a mirroring app?

You could also use a backup app that writes backups to disk instead of
tape. That way you could for instance make an incremental backup every
day and a weekly full backup. That gives you a lot more security for
very little extra harddisk space.

Even the simple backup tool that comes with windows can write to disk,
and it might already be enough for your needs.

P.S.: I have some RAID hardware, but I realized that complexity makes
RAID a non-option. So since I already have SCSI hardware, I just may
stick with that.

You must also realize that raid only protects you against hardware
failure.
But most data is lost because of software errors and human error. Raid
does not protect you against that.

Of course there is a risk that your backup files will be damaged. So
the best solution would be to put those backup files on a removable
disk.
You could consider raid to protect your system and backup files from
hardware failure.

Marc

 

[John Turco]

I do something similar but to an external USB2.0 drive that I built myself.

<cut rest of message, for brevity>


Hello, Colin:

You created a hard disk, all by yourself? My, how incredibly talented
you must be! :-D


Cordially,
John Turco <[email protected]>

 

[CWatters]

Yeah getting the oxide to stick to the CD I used for the platters was a bit
tricky!

Ok here is something (off topic) I really did build myself....

It's a scale Nieuport 11...
http://users.pandora.be/colin.watters/images/nieuport/n11_18.jpg
http://users.pandora.be/colin.watters/images/nieuport/n11_16.jpg
http://users.pandora.be/colin.watters/images/nieuport/n11_20.jpg
http://users.pandora.be/colin.watters/images/nieuport/belt_drive.jpg
http://users.pandora.be/colin.watters/images/nieuport/altimeter.gif

 

[John Turco]

Yeah getting the oxide to stick to the CD I used for the platters was a bit
tricky!

Ok here is something (off topic) I really did build myself....

It's a scale Nieuport 11...
http://users.pandora.be/colin.watters/images/nieuport/n11_18.jpg
http://users.pandora.be/colin.watters/images/nieuport/n11_16.jpg
http://users.pandora.be/colin.watters/images/nieuport/n11_20.jpg
http://users.pandora.be/colin.watters/images/nieuport/belt_drive.jpg
http://users.pandora.be/colin.watters/images/nieuport/altimeter.gif

Hello, Colin:

Beautiful "bird!" You >are< rather "talented," at that.

I'm a (former, frustrated) model-builder, also. Once had hundreds of
unmade kits (mostly plastic), but sold them all, long ago.

Incidentally, what's the size of this plane (actual dimensions and
scale)? Does it really fly, and regardless, what kind of motor is shown
in the "belt_drive.jpg" photo?

Enquiring minds (like mine) want to know! ;-)


Cordially,

 

[CWatters]

Hi John,

It was built from a very kit by Proctor Enterprises. It's 1/5th scale and
has a span of 61". Their web site with full specs and details of other kits
are is here...

http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/

There are more photos of my Neuport and versions built by other people here
(scroll down)

http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/nieu11/index.html

The kit is designed for a 4 stroke motor but my version is somewhat
diffetent because I redesigned it for electric power. The battery is 24
cells and the motor develops around 2BHP (=1400W) flat out. . The motor is a
brushless design from Aveox in the USA fitted to a home made belt reduction
unit with a ratio of approx 3:1. The prop is 20" in diameter.

The kits are not for the faint hearted as they comprise mostly sheet and
strip wood. There are several hundred parts to cut and assemble. Take a look
at the Curtis Jenny page for an example if the internal construction
details...

http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/jenny/index.html.

If you fancy something larger you could always go for a _full size_ Nieuport
24 for around $10,000 and fly in it yourself....

http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/nieuport24.htm

They have other designs as well ...

http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/homepage2.htm

 

[Higgins]

http://users.pandora.be/colin.watters/images/nieuport/n11_18.jpg

Where's the USB port????

 

[Rod Speed]

Where's the USB port????

Thats where its arsehole should be and
he's too polite to have included arse shots.

There are clearly children reading this
group and Col is much too polite for that.

It aint called a tail dragger for nuffin.

 

[John Turco]

Hi John,

It was built from a very kit by Proctor Enterprises. It's 1/5th scale and
has a span of 61". Their web site with full specs and details of other kits
are is here...

http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/

There are more photos of my Neuport and versions built by other people here
(scroll down)

http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/nieu11/index.html

Hello, Colin:

Awesome! 61" is far out of my league, I can assure you.

I'd never heard of "Proctor Enterprises," before, either. My plastic
kits (cars, airplanes, ships, etc.) came from mainstream manufacturers,
such as Monogram, AMT, Lindberg, etc.; among flying models
(wood/tissue), Guillows and Sterling reigned supreme. They were all
American companies, at least back then (early 1960's-late '80's).

Even built a working cuckoo clock, once (1968, Lindberg, plastic).

The kit is designed for a 4 stroke motor but my version is somewhat
diffetent because I redesigned it for electric power. The battery is 24
cells and the motor develops around 2BHP (=1400W) flat out. . The motor is a
brushless design from Aveox in the USA fitted to a home made belt reduction
unit with a ratio of approx 3:1. The prop is 20" in diameter.

I always favored rubber-powered types, personally...maybe I'm too much
of a chicken.

The kits are not for the faint hearted as they comprise mostly sheet and
strip wood. There are several hundred parts to cut and assemble. Take a look
at the Curtis Jenny page for an example if the internal construction
details...

http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/jenny/index.html.

Yes, indeed, my old stick-and-tissue planes were daunting enough, to
construct. These Proctor puppies appear many times as difficult,
however!

If you fancy something larger you could always go for a _full size_ Nieuport
24 for around $10,000 and fly in it yourself....

http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/nieuport24.htm

They have other designs as well ...

http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/homepage2.htm

No, thanks, I suffer extreme acrophobia. (See, told you I was a
coward! <g>)


Merry Christmas,
John Turco <[email protected]>


PS: Be careful to spread that oxide evenly, please. :-D

 

[CWatters]

Where's the USB port????

Yes, sorry old chap, got off topic for a moment there.

 

[Darren Harris]

Windows XP will do that for it's restore points and stuff.
You can turn it of for a drive, but I don't know by heart where that
is exactly.

I use Windows 98(SE).(Not XP).

Go to the power options in control panel, and there you can set after
how many minutes of inactivity it should turn a drive off.

Since I do a lot of internet surfing, I am not sure how well that
would work if Windows writes between drives while I am only accessing
a single drive.

Are you sure you want a mirroring app?

You could also use a backup app that writes backups to disk instead of
tape. That way you could for instance make an incremental backup every
day and a weekly full backup. That gives you a lot more security for
very little extra harddisk space.

The idea is be able to back-up between disks. And I want all my
back-ups to be manual.

Even the simple backup tool that comes with windows can write to disk,
and it might already be enough for your needs.

No it won't. I basically want an exact replica of my "C" disk if it
fails.

You must also realize that raid only protects you against hardware
failure.
But most data is lost because of software errors and human error. Raid
does not protect you against that.

That is not the goal.

Of course there is a risk that your backup files will be damaged. So
the best solution would be to put those backup files on a removable
disk.
You could consider raid to protect your system and backup files from
hardware failure.

Marc

I want all backing up to be contain within the system.(I can always
get a USB or Firewire drive).

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.