Advice needed: AMD or Intel

[Papa Lazarou]

Hi y'all. It's time for my trusty KT7A & 1.4ghz Athlon to hang up its
boots and I need some advice on my new system.

I've decided on either an AMD based 2800xp with Abit NFS-7 mb, or a more
expensive 2.8ghz P4 on an Abit AI7. Neither will be overclocked as I am
going for as quiet a system as possible so radical cooling is out of the
question. Is there any noise difference between the two systems with
stock heatsink/fans? The heavy duty activities the machine will be used
for are gaming and Mpeg 2 encoding (using Tmpgenc).

At first I was all set to take the AMD route without even considering
the P4, but then it occurred to me that mpeg encoding is basically a
pure number-crunching operation and that for this purpose the 2.1ghz
2800xp will be obviously inferior to the sheer power of a 2.8ghz P4.
Am I correct in thinking this, as I don't mind springing the extra bucks
for the P4 system if it gives me this 33% boost on my encodes?
Any advice appreciated.

 

[Martin]

Hi y'all. It's time for my trusty KT7A & 1.4ghz Athlon to hang up its
boots and I need some advice on my new system.

I've decided on either an AMD based 2800xp with Abit NFS-7 mb, or a more
expensive 2.8ghz P4 on an Abit AI7. Neither will be overclocked as I am
going for as quiet a system as possible so radical cooling is out of the
question. Is there any noise difference between the two systems with
stock heatsink/fans? The heavy duty activities the machine will be used
for are gaming and Mpeg 2 encoding (using Tmpgenc).

At first I was all set to take the AMD route without even considering
the P4, but then it occurred to me that mpeg encoding is basically a
pure number-crunching operation and that for this purpose the 2.1ghz
2800xp will be obviously inferior to the sheer power of a 2.8ghz P4.
Am I correct in thinking this, as I don't mind springing the extra bucks
for the P4 system if it gives me this 33% boost on my encodes?
Any advice appreciated.

Also, you will almost certainly be able to overclock the P4 2.8 ghz to over
3ghz without changing the supplied cooler (although using paste would help a
little). That would make no difference to the noise...

Martin

 

[ICee]

Hi y'all. It's time for my trusty KT7A & 1.4ghz Athlon to hang up its
boots and I need some advice on my new system.

I've decided on either an AMD based 2800xp with Abit NFS-7 mb, or a
more expensive 2.8ghz P4 on an Abit AI7. Neither will be overclocked
as I am going for as quiet a system as possible so radical cooling is
out of the question. Is there any noise difference between the two
systems with stock heatsink/fans? The heavy duty activities the
machine will be used for are gaming and Mpeg 2 encoding (using
Tmpgenc).

At first I was all set to take the AMD route without even considering
the P4, but then it occurred to me that mpeg encoding is basically a
pure number-crunching operation and that for this purpose the 2.1ghz
2800xp will be obviously inferior to the sheer power of a 2.8ghz P4.
Am I correct in thinking this, as I don't mind springing the extra
bucks for the P4 system if it gives me this 33% boost on my encodes?
Any advice appreciated.

Get a XP2500+, which will easily overclock (using a 200 MHz+ FSB) to at
least a 3200+.

 

[Phisherman]

Hi y'all. It's time for my trusty KT7A & 1.4ghz Athlon to hang up its
boots and I need some advice on my new system.

I've decided on either an AMD based 2800xp with Abit NFS-7 mb, or a more
expensive 2.8ghz P4 on an Abit AI7. Neither will be overclocked as I am
going for as quiet a system as possible so radical cooling is out of the
question. Is there any noise difference between the two systems with
stock heatsink/fans? The heavy duty activities the machine will be used
for are gaming and Mpeg 2 encoding (using Tmpgenc).

At first I was all set to take the AMD route without even considering
the P4, but then it occurred to me that mpeg encoding is basically a
pure number-crunching operation and that for this purpose the 2.1ghz
2800xp will be obviously inferior to the sheer power of a 2.8ghz P4.
Am I correct in thinking this, as I don't mind springing the extra bucks
for the P4 system if it gives me this 33% boost on my encodes?
Any advice appreciated.

I found that AMD gives you more bang for the buck. Intel is the one
to get if you have the extra money. I seriously doubt you'll see a
33% boost with the P4. The 120mm fans, slightly slowed, are great for
moving air quietly. I wonder why we don't see more 120mm fan
blowholes in cases?!

 

[Jon Rose]

Get a XP2500+, which will easily overclock (using a 200 MHz+ FSB) to at
least a 3200+.

Can that be done with the retail fan and heatsink? I have an NF7-S and a
2500+ on its way. Wondering if I need an aftermarket sink and fan to get it
to 200 Mhz FSB).

Jon

 

[Dave Hau]

Hi y'all. It's time for my trusty KT7A & 1.4ghz Athlon to hang up its
boots and I need some advice on my new system.

I've decided on either an AMD based 2800xp with Abit NFS-7 mb, or a more
expensive 2.8ghz P4 on an Abit AI7. Neither will be overclocked as I am
going for as quiet a system as possible so radical cooling is out of the
question. Is there any noise difference between the two systems with
stock heatsink/fans? The heavy duty activities the machine will be used
for are gaming and Mpeg 2 encoding (using Tmpgenc).

At first I was all set to take the AMD route without even considering
the P4, but then it occurred to me that mpeg encoding is basically a
pure number-crunching operation and that for this purpose the 2.1ghz
2800xp will be obviously inferior to the sheer power of a 2.8ghz P4.
Am I correct in thinking this, as I don't mind springing the extra bucks
for the P4 system if it gives me this 33% boost on my encodes?

Tmpgenc is able to take advantage of SSE2 and hyperthreading on a P4 system,
which is faster than when it uses 3d-now on an athlon32 system. I don't
know the exact magnitude of the performance improvement but I guess 33% is
possible. So for media encoding, I would definitely recommend a P4 system.

Now if you could get an athlon64 system instead, then it would support SSE2
and would probably give you better performance than a P4 system. But I
guess in terms of price-performance, a P4 2.8c would be a sweet spot for
media encoding.

- Dave

 

[Mark H]

Since the 2500's are now locked - you can still easily reach 2200mhz
with the retail heat sink.


Jon Rose wrote:

 

[dummy]

When you compare P4 Processors to Athlon Processors I think looking a
game and multimedia benchmarks can be a valuable tool. Try looking at
this benchmark comparing the P4 800 Mhz Bus processors and the Athlon
XP processors. The benchmarks show that the XP2800 is just a little
faster than the P4 2.4C and the P4 2.6C processor. The XP2800 can not
compare to the raw speed of the P4 2.8C, 800Mhz bus speed processors.

However, in reality, if you are into overclocking, the P4 will
probable overclock quite easily. I do not overclock at all, so I do
not even look at that for myself.

The P4 platform on Intel 867/875 chipsets has a couple of advantages
compared to the Nforce2 chipsets. It has a little faster Memory
interface, and usually has more memory slots available (4 vs. 3).

What the benchmarks do show is that they use the fastest Video card.
I think perhaps that not having the fastest video card may have a
distinct difference. My son compared video cards using a Athlon 2400+
processor because he won an ATI 9800 AIW in a raffle. We have been
playing Halo for the PC on it and it works pretty good. So I think it
is the Video card is a little more important than the raw speed of the
processor.

Maybe someone else who has a 800Mhz P4 and an ATI 9800 will have some
thoughts on this.

 

[Jon Rose]

Forgive my ignorance on current AMD processors. What is locked on the Barton
cores? The multiplier?

Thanks,
Jon

 

[Conor]

Forgive my ignorance on current AMD processors. What is locked on the Barton
cores? The multiplier?

Yes.


--
Conor

"The vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world.
And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice."
- George Bush

 

[jamotto]

Since the 2500's are now locked - you can still easily reach 2200mhz
with the retail heat sink.


Jon Rose wrote:

curious when did they start locking the Barton 2500's? I just bought
one from newegg.com and it is not locked.

 

[DaveL]

Most say the locking started at week 39. There have been reports of some
locked as early a week 35. What week is your's? If you dont know, post the
code number on it and I'll tell you. It would be something like "AIUGB
0348UPMW". This would be week 48 of 2003.

Dave

 

[jamotto]

Most say the locking started at week 39. There have been reports of some
locked as early a week 35. What week is your's? If you dont know, post the
code number on it and I'll tell you. It would be something like "AIUGB
0348UPMW". This would be week 48 of 2003.

mmm well if it is not the serial number for the warranty then I don't
have it. Or I recorded the wrong number. Also I'm kind of using it
right now and I don't think I can get it out. It took a friend and I
an hour to get it in because the heatsink it used was the worst
heatsink I ever had to install! It had a green plastic thing for
placeing the screwdriver into to help push the retaining clip down it
also did not have the indention for the raised back part of the socket
the previous 2500 I bought had this indention in the heatsink.

anyway, I guess I will assume I have a Processor that is < 35week.

 

[Homie]

Homie


P.S.
I fried/crushed/ installed into faulty motherboards 5 AMD cpu's in the past 6 months.
that's out of about 300 AMD repairs
Zero " 0 " fried / Damaged Intel CPU's...in the last 3 years ....over 5000 Intel
based boards repaired & tested with Intel cpu's.
Some had 5 volts to the core, a few, I just plain forgot to put the heat-sink
on....didn't matter ! Bios beeped video went a little funny....but it didn't ****in
burn up in 2 seconds like AMD cpu's do....Then corners of the cores aren't made to
fall off so that the manufacture can claim abuse and no warranty .... wonder why AMD
does that ? ????
Not biased, I just think that AMD is selling shit and telling us its Shinola.

And what the **** am I gonna do with a 64bit CPU ??? I know...break legs off it and
send it to me to fix
No, I know.....I will set up a server and serve MS. net documents to everyone for
desert ? that might use all 64 bits ....



--
Mainboards, Videocards & CPU pin repair.

http://motherboardrepair.com
(e-mail address removed)

Hi y'all. It's time for my trusty KT7A & 1.4ghz Athlon to hang up its
boots and I need some advice on my new system.

I've decided on either an AMD based 2800xp with Abit NFS-7 mb, or a more
expensive 2.8ghz P4 on an Abit AI7. Neither will be overclocked as I am
going for as quiet a system as possible so radical cooling is out of the
question. Is there any noise difference between the two systems with
stock heatsink/fans? The heavy duty activities the machine will be used
for are gaming and Mpeg 2 encoding (using Tmpgenc).

At first I was all set to take the AMD route without even considering
the P4, but then it occurred to me that mpeg encoding is basically a
pure number-crunching operation and that for this purpose the 2.1ghz
2800xp will be obviously inferior to the sheer power of a 2.8ghz P4.
Am I correct in thinking this, as I don't mind springing the extra bucks
for the P4 system if it gives me this 33% boost on my encodes?
Any advice appreciated.

--
Mainboards, Videocards & CPU pin repair.

http://motherboardrepair.com
(e-mail address removed)

Hi y'all. It's time for my trusty KT7A & 1.4ghz Athlon to hang up its
boots and I need some advice on my new system.

I've decided on either an AMD based 2800xp with Abit NFS-7 mb, or a more
expensive 2.8ghz P4 on an Abit AI7. Neither will be overclocked as I am
going for as quiet a system as possible so radical cooling is out of the
question. Is there any noise difference between the two systems with
stock heatsink/fans? The heavy duty activities the machine will be used
for are gaming and Mpeg 2 encoding (using Tmpgenc).

At first I was all set to take the AMD route without even considering
the P4, but then it occurred to me that mpeg encoding is basically a
pure number-crunching operation and that for this purpose the 2.1ghz
2800xp will be obviously inferior to the sheer power of a 2.8ghz P4.
Am I correct in thinking this, as I don't mind springing the extra bucks
for the P4 system if it gives me this 33% boost on my encodes?
Any advice appreciated.

 

[DaveL]

I'll agree that the AMD Athlons are not as rugged as the Intel chips. But I
believe the difference can be made up with learned and carefull installation
practices. What I mean is, if you are new to building a system then go
Intel. If you know what you are doing and can afford to take the little
extra time and care, then by all means, save some money and go AMD.

Dave

 

[Homie]

In my situation, 5 CPU's lost while repairing motherboards is nearly $600 profit right
out of my pocket, not to mention the waisted time caused by the failure in the middle
of what otherwise would have been a good day.
I use more care with AMD CPU's than any other component I work with daily, still the
results tell the truth.
I just don't see how it's a good deal to have a product that has no built in
safeguards.
They are great performers for the buck, however, heat-sink compound does dry out, fans
do fail, power supplies go whacky, none of these things has killed an Intel while
under my care but all of those things have killed AMD's at my expense. AND it always
happens at the worst possible time....day before Christmas , same day the car
dies...you know.......
If AMD would implement even crude safeguards like a 5 second warning or at the very
least crowbar the damn ATX........ I would have much nicer things to say.
Meanwhile, I have several 2~3Ghz key fobs.... they do make good conversation pieces.
Next I am going to make a VIA BGA chip-set hood ornament... (Not kidding at
all....they are a pain to remove without damage but they look so kool).


Gary

--
Mainboards, Videocards & CPU pin repair.

http://motherboardrepair.com
(e-mail address removed)

I'll agree that the AMD Athlons are not as rugged as the Intel chips. But I
believe the difference can be made up with learned and carefull installation
practices. What I mean is, if you are new to building a system then go
Intel. If you know what you are doing and can afford to take the little
extra time and care, then by all means, save some money and go AMD.

Dave

 

[DaveL]

All my AMD motherboards have a automatic shutdown mechanism if the cpu gets
hot, like if the fan dies or heatsink falls off. I saw a newbie in another
NG that was setting up an Athlon64 system. He thought he would test out his
shiny new cpu before mounting the HSF because he did not want to get it
messy in case he had to return it. He was asking why it would not boot up.
After we set him straight (and had a good time laughing at him) he mounted
the HSF and it still worked, it was not burnt out. So I'm thinking the new
Athlon64s have some type of thermal protection.

Dave

 

[Homie]

If it survived for even 3 seconds without a heat-sink, it's got something the Athlons
don't.
I fried 2 slot A 950's last year when I neglected to plug in the fans, the bios alarms
& shutdown were set but they were about 30 seconds too late. That external temp sensor
(I think that's Via's great Idea) is about like having the fire department walk to
your burning house with empty buckets....at least when they get there, they could tell
ya..."yep, she's a hot one"
I assure you, the 2.2g Athlon's will self destruct faster than you can shut down the
supply when they are booted without a heat-sink.......Sometimes, just to add insult,
they will take out the on-board regulators and chip-set too!
I am not the sharpest tack in the box but every time it has happened to me, it was
because I was destracted for just a second as I was doing the final build before the
final test....you know, phone rings, sit down the heat-sink, wipe the white/silver
slime off my hands, talk for 5 minutes..... then walk back to the test jig and
think...OH..I just need to boot this and get it ready to ship....
2 seconds later as the current meters head for a jigawatt----- that's when I can't
speak English &^%*
I am sure the neighbors hear something like "Trucking 8MDEEES Truck! Chucking !!chuk
!!duck !suck! muck guck! ruck guck puck ! ""
(.. If they fixed that in the 64.... I will start recommending AMD's.)


Gary


--
Mainboards, Videocards & CPU pin repair.

http://motherboardrepair.com
(e-mail address removed)

All my AMD motherboards have a automatic shutdown mechanism if the cpu gets
hot, like if the fan dies or heatsink falls off. I saw a newbie in another
NG that was setting up an Athlon64 system. He thought he would test out his
shiny new cpu before mounting the HSF because he did not want to get it
messy in case he had to return it. He was asking why it would not boot up.
After we set him straight (and had a good time laughing at him) he mounted
the HSF and it still worked, it was not burnt out. So I'm thinking the new
Athlon64s have some type of thermal protection.

Dave

 

[- HAL9000]

Looks like they did Homie.

I downloaded a video from Toms Hardware guide. At the end of the
bench marking they take off the heatsink on both a P4 and a Athlon 64.
They both shut down. As I recall, they both shut down around 85 to 90
degrees C.

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030923/athlon_64-53.html

You need the latest divx to view the video...

Forrest

Motherboard Help By HAL web site:
http://home.comcast.net/~hal-9000/

 

[somebody]

If it survived for even 3 seconds without a heat-sink, it's got something the Athlons
don't.
I fried 2 slot A 950's last year when I neglected to plug in the fans, the bios alarms
& shutdown were set but they were about 30 seconds too late. That external temp sensor
(I think that's Via's great Idea) is about like having the fire department walk to
your burning house with empty buckets....at least when they get there, they could tell
ya..."yep, she's a hot one"
I assure you, the 2.2g Athlon's will self destruct faster than you can shut down the
supply when they are booted without a heat-sink.......Sometimes, just to add insult,
they will take out the on-board regulators and chip-set too!
I am not the sharpest tack in the box but every time it has happened to me, it was
because I was destracted for just a second as I was doing the final build before the
final test....you know, phone rings, sit down the heat-sink, wipe the white/silver
slime off my hands, talk for 5 minutes..... then walk back to the test jig and
think...OH..I just need to boot this and get it ready to ship....
2 seconds later as the current meters head for a jigawatt----- that's when I can't
speak English &^%*
I am sure the neighbors hear something like "Trucking 8MDEEES Truck! Chucking !!chuk
!!duck !suck! muck guck! ruck guck puck ! ""
(.. If they fixed that in the 64.... I will start recommending AMD's.)

I thought the AthlonXP had a shut down since the 2100+, or something
like that. But that's just an emergency shutdown. ...And I haven't
'tested' it.

P4's throttle. A64 are supposed to have more advanced powermanagement
than the P4.

Still don't see your reasons for complaints? Guy asked for "Advice
needed: AMD or Intel". There's no problems to building an Athlon.
There's much better reasons for building AMD than not. And your
complaint doesn't even amount to a reason, IMO.

Ancra