Activation Limbo

[Michael]

You may know part of my story...I wrote Microsoft today and am awaiting
word...

I purchaced a new computer about two weeks ago. (It came with XP PRO
installed,)

This is very complicated...bear with me

My goal (old PC had died)... I needed to move the data over from two
small drives to the new large drive. (I did receive the full install XP
Pro CD)

Further, I wanted to format a small partition and (to boot with DOS)
repartition the new drive.

Well, the new drive had a single partition (NTFS) nearly 40 gig. It also
had a small "utility" partition" 47 meg.

So, I was forced to reformat (wipe out XP PRO?) the drive----

But that did not remove the small utility partition!---(or so I found
out after reformatting and creating new partitions...)

FDISK only "saw" a single, unformatted drive after all that effort.

I had to delete the Master Boot Record and reformat the drive...again.

So, I re-install XP Pro from the CD. Of course it prompted me to
"Activate" it.

Not only did I not know what that meant (then, I thought it meant
"register")...the computer was not, and still does not have Internet
access. (I just skipped it and finished install)

Well, I found out what activation meant----I was warned for two more days.

(I was still in the process of migrationg data from my old machine....I
wanted to keep my "old" version of Windows 2000) I figured I'd get to
"activating" it when my project was complete

Well, Windows 2000 wouldn't "migrate". I had to do a clean install.
(Yeah, I was warned)

And..., since I did that after the install of XP PRO?

Yep, I had to re-install XP PRO again! (Actually I booted from the XP CD
and chose Repair----It went through the reinstall process anyway?!)

I again was stupid a couple of days later----after installing the
command console in Windows 2000? (I didn't know the XP cmdcons would
work for both)

Well, XP PRO wouldn't boot---so when I ran "repair"? Yep, it went into
a new install phase. Um, I believe I know the difference between setup
and repair---I've run W2k since its release)

An aside? That is odd---In Windows 2000, I have had to use "repair" (
"choose "R"?) countless times and it never started an install from
scratch...

All is well now. I have my small DOS partition, I have a reformatted
drive and can boot to XP Pro and Windows 2000. Whew! What a week.

However, after the repair/re-install of XP PRO (following the Windows
2000 install)---I have received no warning to activate!

Further, I went to Programs/Accessories/Systems Tools---and there is no
opportunity to activate (per the MS website). I will still have to do it
by phone as the machine is not and probably won't be connected to the
Internet for some time...but as of now---I get no warning and see no
means to activate.

I am certain it is not activated. I read in a Microsoft newsgroup to
run the program "jellybean". All the checkboxes are greyed out and it
tell me so.

So, why was I "warned" after the first install and even given a daily
warning on days 29 & 28 to activate? ---

(Before the second and third re-installs?)

Again, no warning after the second install (after installing Windows
2000) or the third install after installing the Windows 2000 command
console?

I have no idea how much time I have left, how I'll activate it and while
it appears I do have to (or at least I did for three days...)---Why
isn't there any warning of how much time I have left or the option there
to "do it"? (or a means to do it?)

I would probably prefer to do it over the Internet---punching in 50
numbers is not my strongest suit...I never get the 25 numbers in from
the cd key under two or three tries...

Seriously, this seems very odd indeed!

I understand that reformatting the drive and reinstalling
might/would/should require Activation on an OEM install----but I don't
understand why that option (warning---means to do it in the System
utils) is no longer there after the 2nd and 3rd re-installs?

So, can you explain this--?

Also, since I do have access to the Internet with another computer (Duh,
I'm using one now!), can I use this one some how (I doubt it) instead of
the phone?

Sorry for the long story...

But, (I do wish "repair" in XP PR didn't go to a full install)....

No, I didn't lose my applications, but I did lose all configuration and
settings. In Windows 2000, repair means repair...It only fixed what was
wrong---it was not an install. XP just started install on it's own, and
said it would take x minutes...

So, it is obvious I'll need to activate--- I don't know how much time I
have left?

Oh, please don't refer me to the manufacturer---we have some outstanding
issues.
Before I purchased, they knew my intention to have a Fat partition (I
knew I'd have to reinstall after I sysed DOS and wanted to make sure I
got a full CD)

----After the job was done, or after they made the sale?

They are of no help with anything...After I told them I reformated the
drive for DOS---they told my they wouldn't support me...So, I'm on my
own and I think time is running out...

Michael

 

[Sharon F]

So, it is obvious I'll need to activate--- I don't know how much time I
have left?

To start the activation wizard when there's no other obvious way to do so:

Click Start> Run> and type in the following:
%systemroot%\system32\oobe\msoobe.exe /a
Press OK

A screen will appear and it will either tell you that XP is already
activated or it will start the activation wizard and walk you through the
process.

If you end up calling, don't fret entering the numbers/letters. This is
usually done in groups of 5 characters or so and you can repeat each group
until you're positive that you have it right. Then move to the next group
and so on until finished.

 

[Harry Ohrn]

Read through the information here by Alex Nichol's published to Jim
Eshelman's site http://www.aumha.org/a/wpa.htm

--

Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell/User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp


| You may know part of my story...I wrote Microsoft today and am awaiting
| word...
|
| I purchaced a new computer about two weeks ago. (It came with XP PRO
| installed,)
|
| This is very complicated...bear with me
|
| My goal (old PC had died)... I needed to move the data over from two
| small drives to the new large drive. (I did receive the full install XP
| Pro CD)
|
| Further, I wanted to format a small partition and (to boot with DOS)
| repartition the new drive.
|
| Well, the new drive had a single partition (NTFS) nearly 40 gig. It also
| had a small "utility" partition" 47 meg.
|
| So, I was forced to reformat (wipe out XP PRO?) the drive----
|
| But that did not remove the small utility partition!---(or so I found
| out after reformatting and creating new partitions...)
|
| FDISK only "saw" a single, unformatted drive after all that effort.
|
| I had to delete the Master Boot Record and reformat the drive...again.
|
| So, I re-install XP Pro from the CD. Of course it prompted me to
| "Activate" it.
|
| Not only did I not know what that meant (then, I thought it meant
| "register")...the computer was not, and still does not have Internet
| access. (I just skipped it and finished install)
|
| Well, I found out what activation meant----I was warned for two more days.
|
| (I was still in the process of migrationg data from my old machine....I
| wanted to keep my "old" version of Windows 2000) I figured I'd get to
| "activating" it when my project was complete
|
| Well, Windows 2000 wouldn't "migrate". I had to do a clean install.
| (Yeah, I was warned)
|
| And..., since I did that after the install of XP PRO?
|
| Yep, I had to re-install XP PRO again! (Actually I booted from the XP CD
| and chose Repair----It went through the reinstall process anyway?!)
|
| I again was stupid a couple of days later----after installing the
| command console in Windows 2000? (I didn't know the XP cmdcons would
| work for both)
|
| Well, XP PRO wouldn't boot---so when I ran "repair"? Yep, it went into
| a new install phase. Um, I believe I know the difference between setup
| and repair---I've run W2k since its release)
|
| An aside? That is odd---In Windows 2000, I have had to use "repair" (
| "choose "R"?) countless times and it never started an install from
| scratch...
|
| All is well now. I have my small DOS partition, I have a reformatted
| drive and can boot to XP Pro and Windows 2000. Whew! What a week.
|
| However, after the repair/re-install of XP PRO (following the Windows
| 2000 install)---I have received no warning to activate!
|
| Further, I went to Programs/Accessories/Systems Tools---and there is no
| opportunity to activate (per the MS website). I will still have to do it
| by phone as the machine is not and probably won't be connected to the
| Internet for some time...but as of now---I get no warning and see no
| means to activate.
|
| I am certain it is not activated. I read in a Microsoft newsgroup to
| run the program "jellybean". All the checkboxes are greyed out and it
| tell me so.
|
| So, why was I "warned" after the first install and even given a daily
| warning on days 29 & 28 to activate? ---
|
| (Before the second and third re-installs?)
|
| Again, no warning after the second install (after installing Windows
| 2000) or the third install after installing the Windows 2000 command
| console?
|
| I have no idea how much time I have left, how I'll activate it and while
| it appears I do have to (or at least I did for three days...)---Why
| isn't there any warning of how much time I have left or the option there
| to "do it"? (or a means to do it?)
|
| I would probably prefer to do it over the Internet---punching in 50
| numbers is not my strongest suit...I never get the 25 numbers in from
| the cd key under two or three tries...
|
| Seriously, this seems very odd indeed!
|
| I understand that reformatting the drive and reinstalling
| might/would/should require Activation on an OEM install----but I don't
| understand why that option (warning---means to do it in the System
| utils) is no longer there after the 2nd and 3rd re-installs?
|
| So, can you explain this--?
|
| Also, since I do have access to the Internet with another computer (Duh,
| I'm using one now!), can I use this one some how (I doubt it) instead of
| the phone?
|
| Sorry for the long story...
|
| But, (I do wish "repair" in XP PR didn't go to a full install)....
|
| No, I didn't lose my applications, but I did lose all configuration and
| settings. In Windows 2000, repair means repair...It only fixed what was
| wrong---it was not an install. XP just started install on it's own, and
| said it would take x minutes...
|
| So, it is obvious I'll need to activate--- I don't know how much time I
| have left?
|
| Oh, please don't refer me to the manufacturer---we have some outstanding
| issues.
| Before I purchased, they knew my intention to have a Fat partition (I
| knew I'd have to reinstall after I sysed DOS and wanted to make sure I
| got a full CD)
|
| ----After the job was done, or after they made the sale?
|
| They are of no help with anything...After I told them I reformated the
| drive for DOS---they told my they wouldn't support me...So, I'm on my
| own and I think time is running out...
|
| Michael
|
|
|
|
|
|

 

[Michael]

To start the activation wizard when there's no other obvious way to do so:

Click Start> Run> and type in the following:
%systemroot%\system32\oobe\msoobe.exe /a
Press OK

A screen will appear and it will either tell you that XP is already
activated or it will start the activation wizard and walk you through the
process.

If you end up calling, don't fret entering the numbers/letters. This is
usually done in groups of 5 characters or so and you can repeat each group
until you're positive that you have it right. Then move to the next group
and so on until finished.

Thanks for the insight...

I did read the article that Harry referred to. It cast an entire new
light on the terms ownership or purchase. Yes, one does own their
operating system...but depending on what they do to their computer (and
that point system is really wild) they're always tied to MS. I imagine
it will be a bi of a mess in a few years when XP machines start ending
up in the hands of second owners?

I'm all for anti-piracy, but as my case shows---the system seems to have
its glitches. I'm sure (without a reminder in the tray as I don't have?)
many people find themselves with a machine "stuck" and don't know why.

We are so accustomed to "ignoring" the constant gathering of
information---well, do people stop during install to complete the
procedure?

Just a guess, when that EULA comes on? Most people reach for F8
reflexively. What is one's choice? Hire an attorney and see if the
contract is sound? Seriously, what choice does one have at that point
anyway? I'll wager a tiny percent of the public ever reads let alone
does not "agree" with a license.

In this case it's more serious---ignore it and your computer may blink
out in a month (again, my only warning came after the first re-install).
I am very aware, but wouldn't have had a clue what it meant if I didn't
subscribe to Usenet. I've ignored countless "registrations"...it has
never been worth the bother. Plus, as I wasn't online and didn't even
have a phone jack within twenty five feet---what was I going to do?


Further, the help topic in XP is hardly well written. I read it four
times yesterday and couldn't recount it up to a stranger. Oh, I
understand the basics (either you own a legal copy of XP and all will be
ok, or if you don't it won't work after thirty days)---my eyes glazed
over about half-way through. I clicked on it this morning and still
think the language is hobbled.

Of course the OEM manual is worthless. I believe the index is about as
large as the content. It's mostly: Check out help, got to the website
(or a topic is ignored). Wold they go broke by giving me a manual size
of what I get with a TV or DVD player? I still have my first Windows
manual---one could really learn something from that. It's a book.

As for XP? No one has explained why "r"--"repair" caused the system to
go into a full install mode? Twice? I've done some pretty complicated
repairs in W2k and it never went reinstalled, never.

Actually, I think I could have manually fixed the problem with it not
booting after installing command console for W2k----had I known it was
going to wipe out my configuration (again) I would have paused and
thought my way out if it. I have zero confidence in hitting "R" in XP.

Sorry if my tone is harsh---I was happy with my old computer and the
manufacturer of the new one has been difficult. I was "dragged" to XP
by two friends and expected it go go a bit more smoothly. Migration is
never easy and I had a number of added glitches that weren't needed.

 

[Sharon F]

Sorry if my tone is harsh---I was happy with my old computer and the
manufacturer of the new one has been difficult. I was "dragged" to XP
by two friends and expected it go go a bit more smoothly. Migration is
never easy and I had a number of added glitches that weren't needed.

No problem. I'm not particularly a fan of WPA either but it's there. I've
triggered activation several times with my desktop's copy of XP. Sometimes
it was due to moved installations, upgraded hardware, repair installs, etc.
I've activated on the internet, on the phone with a human and on the phone
with an automated menu. Usually this process is a small inconvenience (30
seconds to 5 minutes). By the way, no personal info is tied to activation.
Personal info is transmitted if you register the software - an optional
action that is separate and different than activation.

Yours is a rather complex setup. Your OEM copy of XP is, by default,
pre-activated. Certain circumstances can trigger a request for activation
on the preactivated copy which is what I suspect your unusual setup ran
into. It's not clear if that request is still active or if it dropped into
the ether. Running the check should give you the answer to that.

 

[Michael]

No problem. I'm not particularly a fan of WPA either but it's there. I've
triggered activation several times with my desktop's copy of XP. Sometimes
it was due to moved installations, upgraded hardware, repair installs, etc.
I've activated on the internet, on the phone with a human and on the phone
with an automated menu. Usually this process is a small inconvenience (30
seconds to 5 minutes). By the way, no personal info is tied to activation.
Personal info is transmitted if you register the software - an optional
action that is separate and different than activation.

Yours is a rather complex setup. Your OEM copy of XP is, by default,
pre-activated. Certain circumstances can trigger a request for activation
on the preactivated copy which is what I suspect your unusual setup ran
into. It's not clear if that request is still active or if it dropped into
the ether. Running the check should give you the answer to that.

Well, now I'm really confused...

I typed "oobe/msoobe /a" at the command prompt?

The screen came up and told me Windows was activated. I supppose that
explains why there is no warning and no means to activate it in System
Tools?

Actually though? It was odd that upon first re-install I was asked to
activate and I did get a warning in my tray for two days prior to my
next two re-installs (that were actually requests for "repair")?

So, it appears that the system worked---that is my OEM version was
already activated at the factory...but somehow it "forgot" that, or I
screwed it up by reformating?

Again---Is all well? Is that subject closed? Do I need to do anything?

As for the "repair" option? I don't believe it functions as it does in
W2k. Well, I know it doesn't.

When I choose repair in W2k I have no fear that it will go to a complete
re-install procedure. It is a safe, reliable technique and I have never
worried that repair would cause me to lose my configuration/settings. I
have done some very complicated repairs via the W2k method and while
slow, the system returned to it's previous state.

With XP? I have no such confidence. Why should I? Again, why should I
believe that choosing to repair XP will not go to install mode wipe out
my installation?

While this may not be something major to many users, I tweak my settings
and it takes more than a bit of time to restore them. As for
backup/restore? I'll have to go back to a second HD in order to have
the space for all the data that XP requires to save.

I'm also skeptical about all the space that is being used by the restore
files. If I don't have access to them during a failure and they get
wiped out during a "repair" anyway....well, why are they there? And, do
they work any better than repair is supposed to?

No, between my experience with the manufacturer and the glitches with XP
my step into the future has not been pleasant. Yes, the extra ram is
great and I suppose the faster CPU is worth it...at what cost?

I was mislead before purchase about what I could do to the computer----I
was never told reformatting would void my chance for support. (I was
very clear about my intentions to format a primary Dos partition)

As for XP, perhaps it is too early to conlude. However, I will have to
experience some success after a misshap before I trust it. I am rather
savy, (this is my business)---but I've never felt a lack of control
before. That is, I usually could predict the outcome of my actions.
Currently, I'm hoping for the best and preparing for the worst. With
W2k, I never lacked any sense of security that it would do exactly what
I requested---nothing more/nothing less.

Michael

 

[Sharon F]

Well, now I'm really confused...

I typed "oobe/msoobe /a" at the command prompt?

The screen came up and told me Windows was activated. I supppose that
explains why there is no warning and no means to activate it in System
Tools?

I think when things finally settled down with your installation, that the
request for activation was dropped

OR

it came from a program other than Windows. MS Office programs (XP, 2003 and
some localized versions of 2000) include activation.

So, it appears that the system worked---that is my OEM version was
already activated at the factory...but somehow it "forgot" that, or I
screwed it up by reformating?

Again---Is all well? Is that subject closed? Do I need to do anything?

Sounds like you're safe. The forced check says you're activated. If it was
me, I would "go with it" and not argue.

As for the "repair" option? I don't believe it functions as it does in
W2k. Well, I know it doesn't.

When I choose repair in W2k I have no fear that it will go to a complete
re-install procedure. It is a safe, reliable technique and I have never
worried that repair would cause me to lose my configuration/settings. I
have done some very complicated repairs via the W2k method and while
slow, the system returned to it's previous state.

With XP? I have no such confidence. Why should I? Again, why should I
believe that choosing to repair XP will not go to install mode wipe out
my installation?

I'm not familiar with Win2000 repair so can't comment on the differences.
Repair mode from an XP retail CD does require updates to be reinstalled.
OEM tweaked repair functions will require that as well and - depending on
how they work - maybe more. Check documentation to be absolutely certain
what "repair" entails.

While this may not be something major to many users, I tweak my settings
and it takes more than a bit of time to restore them. As for
backup/restore? I'll have to go back to a second HD in order to have
the space for all the data that XP requires to save.

May want to check out the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard. A good
article by by Gary Woodruff on this subject can be found here:
http://www.aumha.org/win5/a/fast.htm

I'm also skeptical about all the space that is being used by the restore
files. If I don't have access to them during a failure and they get
wiped out during a "repair" anyway....well, why are they there? And, do
they work any better than repair is supposed to?

System Restore is best suited for "short term repairs." An "oops" situation
where you wish you could roll back the clock a day or two and no more than
a week. I wouldn't trust older restore points to be reliable since so much
of the software I use is updated frequently. You can change the amount of
space allowed for restore points in System properties> System Restore>
Settings. Minimum setting is 200MB and that is enough for at least 4
restore points on most system.

No, between my experience with the manufacturer and the glitches with XP
my step into the future has not been pleasant. Yes, the extra ram is
great and I suppose the faster CPU is worth it...at what cost?

I was mislead before purchase about what I could do to the computer----I
was never told reformatting would void my chance for support. (I was
very clear about my intentions to format a primary Dos partition)

I agree that it appears you were short changed in support. It's not unusual
for support to be dropped when the system is not running the factory
configuration. However, you were up front about this and it would have been
nice if the OEM would have been more forthcoming about how they intended to
handle this for you.

For many years, I've dumped what ships with OEM systems and installed from
retail packages so that I wouldn't have to deal with OEM restrictions. I've
been lucky that the systems I've had didn't need OEM only drivers or that
those drivers were readily available. However, I stopped pushing my luck
and started building my own systems instead. If needed, tracking down
support from many sources instead of one can be a bit of a pain but feel
it's been a worthwhile path.

As for XP, perhaps it is too early to conlude. However, I will have to
experience some success after a misshap before I trust it. I am rather
savy, (this is my business)---but I've never felt a lack of control
before. That is, I usually could predict the outcome of my actions.
Currently, I'm hoping for the best and preparing for the worst. With
W2k, I never lacked any sense of security that it would do exactly what
I requested---nothing more/nothing less.

As with all the versions of Windows, there are things I like and don't like
in XP. With use, it grew on me and was a bit surprised when I realized I
liked it more than I thought I would. Biggest plus: Once it's setup, it's
acceptably stable (for me anyhow) and instead of constantly massaging the
operating system, I can launch my other programs and concentrate on getting
work done.

 

[Wislu Plethora]

-----Original Message-----


Well, now I'm really confused...

I typed "oobe/msoobe /a" at the command prompt?

The screen came up and told me Windows was activated. I supppose that
explains why there is no warning and no means to activate it in System
Tools?

Actually though? It was odd that upon first re-install I was asked to
activate and I did get a warning in my tray for two days prior to my
next two re-installs (that were actually requests for "repair")?

So, it appears that the system worked---that is my OEM version was
already activated at the factory...but somehow it "forgot" that, or I
screwed it up by reformating?

Again---Is all well? Is that subject closed? Do I need to do anything?

As for the "repair" option? I don't believe it functions as it does in
W2k. Well, I know it doesn't.

When I choose repair in W2k I have no fear that it will go to a complete
re-install procedure. It is a safe, reliable technique and I have never
worried that repair would cause me to lose my configuration/settings. I
have done some very complicated repairs via the W2k method and while
slow, the system returned to it's previous state.

With XP? I have no such confidence. Why should I? Again, why should I
believe that choosing to repair XP will not go to install mode wipe out
my installation?

While this may not be something major to many users, I tweak my settings
and it takes more than a bit of time to restore them. As for
backup/restore? I'll have to go back to a second HD in order to have
the space for all the data that XP requires to save.

I'm also skeptical about all the space that is being used by the restore
files. If I don't have access to them during a failure and they get
wiped out during a "repair" anyway....well, why are they there? And, do
they work any better than repair is supposed to?

No, between my experience with the manufacturer and the glitches with XP
my step into the future has not been pleasant. Yes, the extra ram is
great and I suppose the faster CPU is worth it...at what cost?

I was mislead before purchase about what I could do to the computer----I
was never told reformatting would void my chance for support. (I was
very clear about my intentions to format a primary Dos partition)

As for XP, perhaps it is too early to conlude. However, I will have to
experience some success after a misshap before I trust it. I am rather
savy, (this is my business)---but I've never felt a lack of control
before. That is, I usually could predict the outcome of my actions.
Currently, I'm hoping for the best and preparing for the worst. With
W2k, I never lacked any sense of security that it would do exactly what
I requested---nothing more/nothing less.

Michael

It seems that despite your tenacious efforts to screw
things up, you have a working install of XP. Your original
post is about as clear as mud, but it seems that after
already installing XP, you formatted and tried to install
2K ("I wanted to keep my 'old' version of Windows 2000").
Why does it surprise you that a *repair* install of *XP*
wouldn't work at that point? I can't wait to see your
first post after installing SP2.

 

[Michael Solomon \(MS-MVP Windows Shell/User\)]

"I imagine
it will be a bi of a mess in a few years when XP machines start ending
up in the hands of second owners?"

Not at all, activation ties the OS to the machine, not the owner.
Activation is anonymous. If you sell or give away your machine with the XP
disk that came with it, the new owner can continue to use it and activate
the product if necessary upon a format and reinstall or some change in the
hardware that requires it.

 

[Michael]

It seems that despite your tenacious efforts to screw
things up, you have a working install of XP. Your original
post is about as clear as mud, but it seems that after
already installing XP, you formatted and tried to install
2K ("I wanted to keep my 'old' version of Windows 2000").
Why does it surprise you that a *repair* install of *XP*
wouldn't work at that point? I can't wait to see your
first post after installing SP2.

Stop the presses..."tenacious efforts to screw
things up"?

You really didn't want to insult me. (?)

1. I bought a new computer
2. Old computer had two drives, a DOS partition and W2k
3. New computer had hidden "first" partition (with obscure MBR that
#controlled* the entire disk) filled with useless utilities--- + one
large NTFS partition with XP.
4. I was upfront before purchase about formating the new drive to match
the config on my old drive.

So far, the above seems not to be an effort to screw things up. One
should not have to start from scratch with a new computer? "Oh, just
toss out a jillion apps/"

The worst I was told to expect was a clean install of W2k on the new box.

And ya know what? Even though I did a clean install over my migrated
copy of W2k (cmdcons didn't even *see* the install I migrated). Well,
after a clean install of W2k---my settings remained, nuttin' changed.
All apps were associated---after an *clean* install!

Installing W2k *after* XP? Bad move. Should not have been fatal. I
thought they could/would share the same boot files. In retrospect, I
believe I only needed to replace the XP sys files (I'd saved them,
anyway) and didn't need to go the "repair" route.

But, and I will stand firm:

*Repair* should not instantly throw one into install mode. Not without
an on screen warning.

Hey, I was given a choice. A fork in the road? If I wanted "install",
why would I choose R? The next thing I know, a screen says "installing
Windows".

What is it about "repair" that I didn't get? Well, the rules have changed.

No, repair in XP is *not* repair. Or, one chooses *repair* but gets a
surprise:

Sez the help file under "Repair": (That one can't read if the OS is down?)

[quoted]
Feature: Windows Installation compact disc
When to use it: When you cannot start the computer in Safe Mode, neither
Last Known Good nor Recovery Console has been successful, and you have
no backup to use with Automated System Recovery.
What it does: Reinstalls the operating system. You will then need to
reinstall your applications and restore your data files from backups.
Available on: All versions of Windows XP.

So, if it *re-installs* the OS---WTF do they call it repair? Why offer a
choice? Jeeze, W2k has multiple *types* of repair---none wipe out the
OS. (Remember, even my clean install over the migrated W2k didn't change
anything?)

There can be no greater distinction than a "repair" of an application
and its *Reinstallation*. I recall no warning that I would "need to
reinstall your applications and restore your data files from backups".
Name one application where given a choice between repair and install,
the latter happens if one choses repair.

Based on my experience with scores of applications? If one has the
choice to re-install or repair? Well, I've never known where repair was
the *same* as install. (Um, why give a choice?) MS had better get some
kind of warning on that repair option screen indicating what comes
next...cause there is no turning back...

As for running W2k? I've run it *with* DOS, 3X, NT, 95, 98, 98SE...One
doesn't have to be a logician to conclude that W2k is accomodating?

No, your warning concerning XP SP2 should go wide and deep. From all
I've read, SP2 can/is/may be a problem regardless of another OS being
present. Do a search and you won't be able to count the number of
applications SP2 has impacted.

Just an observation? You are aware of the stampede toward open source
software? No, it hasn't hit the personal user..yet. But people have
limits. When they buy something, they expect to --- *own* it?

Do you realize it took 685 words to describe (via Help) "What is Windows
Product Activation?" After reading that and
http://www.aumha.org/a/wpa.htm --- I doubt that anyone really knows what
is in their future.

One string at a time, there will come a point where "too many strings
become attached" to a purchase. Then people will conclude they really
don't need what they thought they needed. There are choices?

History is ripe with instances where a business acted as if its
customers had no choice. Yeah, MS has some great stuff...but, there
seems to be a tendency for them to paint one into a corner?

Countless businesses have already become tired of the attitude:
1. You're wrong, we're right

and

2. Yes, you bought it---but we still control it.

Thus, businesses have found alternatives. Sadly, in an effort (well
placed perhaps?) to succeed, companies often go too far in protecting
their interest(s) and do not understand the customer.

Thus, my recent experience with the leading software (and) hardware
retailer has left me feeling that in the future I will probably be more
aware of the choices available. If that is not their intention? They
might want to review their *after the sale is made* philosoply.

No, you really didn't want to insult me.

 

[Michael]

computer and the


was "dragged" to XP


smoothly. Migration is


weren't needed.


but it's there. I've


copy of XP. Sometimes


repair installs, etc.


human and on the phone


inconvenience (30


tied to activation.


software - an optional


is, by default,


request for activation


unusual setup ran


if it dropped into


to that.


supppose that


it in System


was asked to


prior to my


for "repair")?


version was


it "forgot" that, or I


to do anything?


as it does in


go to a complete


and I have never


configuration/settings. I


method and while


Again, why should I


mode wipe out


tweak my settings


order to have


by the restore


and they get


there? And, do


glitches with XP


extra ram is


the computer----I


support. (I was


I will have to


it. I am rather


of control


my actions.


worst. With


do exactly what



It seems that despite your tenacious efforts to screw
things up, you have a working install of XP. Your original
post is about as clear as mud, but it seems that after
already installing XP, you formatted and tried to install
2K ("I wanted to keep my 'old' version of Windows 2000").
Why does it surprise you that a *repair* install of *XP*
wouldn't work at that point? I can't wait to see your
first post after installing SP2.

Good of you to not blame me---you saw my response to WS?

I will probably grow to appreciate the advantages XP holds (allready
stole some icons for W2k!). No, it is not fair to compare it to W2k.
And yes, there were some rough starts with W2k---when I longed for NT.

Sharon, I try to remain accomodating. I jumped into IT after I was 40
(nearly a decade ago)---I love it and look forward to change. However my
other note does address some valid concerns. The last two weeks needn't
have gone the way they did. I was asking very little and shouldn't have
been jumping through hoops. Thanks for you calming influence. The
migration is nearly complete, I'm looking forward to using the stuff
instead of getting it to work!

Michael

 

[Sharon F]

Installing W2k *after* XP? Bad move. Should not have been fatal. I
thought they could/would share the same boot files. In retrospect, I
believe I only needed to replace the XP sys files (I'd saved them,
anyway) and didn't need to go the "repair" route.

Here's a link to an article describing a method of installing Win2000 after
XP that you may want to save for future reference:
http://www.dougknox.com/xp/tips/xp_repair_2k.htm

If you were just mulitbooting XP and Win2000, the hurdles would have been
more simple. Adding DOS to the mix, I think I would have opted to use a
third party boot manager.

 

[Herb Fritatta]

It seems that despite your tenacious efforts to screw
things up, you have a working install of XP. Your original
post is about as clear as mud, but it seems that after
already installing XP, you formatted and tried to install
2K ("I wanted to keep my 'old' version of Windows 2000").
Why does it surprise you that a *repair* install of *XP*
wouldn't work at that point? I can't wait to see your
first post after installing SP2.

Stop the presses..."tenacious efforts to screw
things up"?

You really didn't want to insult me. (?)

1. I bought a new computer
2. Old computer had two drives, a DOS partition and W2k
3. New computer had hidden "first" partition (with obscure MBR that
#controlled* the entire disk) filled with useless utilities--- + one
large NTFS partition with XP.
4. I was upfront before purchase about formating the new drive to match
the config on my old drive.

So far, the above seems not to be an effort to screw things up. One
should not have to start from scratch with a new computer? "Oh, just
toss out a jillion apps/"

The worst I was told to expect was a clean install of W2k on the new box.

And ya know what? Even though I did a clean install over my migrated
copy of W2k (cmdcons didn't even *see* the install I migrated). Well,
after a clean install of W2k---my settings remained, nuttin' changed.
All apps were associated---after an *clean* install!

Installing W2k *after* XP? Bad move. Should not have been fatal. I
thought they could/would share the same boot files. In retrospect, I
believe I only needed to replace the XP sys files (I'd saved them,
anyway) and didn't need to go the "repair" route.

But, and I will stand firm:

*Repair* should not instantly throw one into install mode. Not without
an on screen warning.

Hey, I was given a choice. A fork in the road? If I wanted "install",
why would I choose R? The next thing I know, a screen says "installing
Windows".

What is it about "repair" that I didn't get? Well, the rules have changed.

No, repair in XP is *not* repair. Or, one chooses *repair* but gets a
surprise:

Sez the help file under "Repair": (That one can't read if the OS is down?)

[quoted]
Feature: Windows Installation compact disc
When to use it: When you cannot start the computer in Safe Mode, neither
Last Known Good nor Recovery Console has been successful, and you have
no backup to use with Automated System Recovery.
What it does: Reinstalls the operating system. You will then need to
reinstall your applications and restore your data files from backups.
Available on: All versions of Windows XP.

So, if it *re-installs* the OS---WTF do they call it repair? Why offer a
choice? Jeeze, W2k has multiple *types* of repair---none wipe out the
OS. (Remember, even my clean install over the migrated W2k didn't change
anything?)

There can be no greater distinction than a "repair" of an application
and its *Reinstallation*. I recall no warning that I would "need to
reinstall your applications and restore your data files from backups".
Name one application where given a choice between repair and install,
the latter happens if one choses repair.

Based on my experience with scores of applications? If one has the
choice to re-install or repair? Well, I've never known where repair was
the *same* as install. (Um, why give a choice?) MS had better get some
kind of warning on that repair option screen indicating what comes
next...cause there is no turning back...

As for running W2k? I've run it *with* DOS, 3X, NT, 95, 98, 98SE...One
doesn't have to be a logician to conclude that W2k is accomodating?

No, your warning concerning XP SP2 should go wide and deep. From all
I've read, SP2 can/is/may be a problem regardless of another OS being
present. Do a search and you won't be able to count the number of
applications SP2 has impacted.

Just an observation? You are aware of the stampede toward open source
software? No, it hasn't hit the personal user..yet. But people have
limits. When they buy something, they expect to --- *own* it?

Do you realize it took 685 words to describe (via Help) "What is Windows
Product Activation?" After reading that and
http://www.aumha.org/a/wpa.htm --- I doubt that anyone really knows what
is in their future.

One string at a time, there will come a point where "too many strings
become attached" to a purchase. Then people will conclude they really
don't need what they thought they needed. There are choices?

History is ripe with instances where a business acted as if its
customers had no choice. Yeah, MS has some great stuff...but, there
seems to be a tendency for them to paint one into a corner?

Countless businesses have already become tired of the attitude:
1. You're wrong, we're right

and

2. Yes, you bought it---but we still control it.

Thus, businesses have found alternatives. Sadly, in an effort (well
placed perhaps?) to succeed, companies often go too far in protecting
their interest(s) and do not understand the customer.

Thus, my recent experience with the leading software (and) hardware
retailer has left me feeling that in the future I will probably be more
aware of the choices available. If that is not their intention? They
might want to review their *after the sale is made* philosoply.

No, you really didn't want to insult me.

I think he *did* want to insult you, but let's face it, you're an awful
easy target. You screwed up almost everything you touched and then
blamed it on the operating system. What should have been an uneventful
upgrade turned into a Cecil B. DeMille production because of *your*
blundering and failure to follow simple instructions. Waaaah, waaah
waaah, I have to *read* something? Yes, little girl, it *does* help to
read the instructions.

 

[Pop]

Fascinating thread: Read with great interest, even a little
empathy and sympathy.

Know what I think the -real- problem is/was?
When you use the CD for "Repair", you do NOT take the first
path toward Repair that pops up! You go to the NEXT screen, and
do the Repair from there! I think the first "repair" reference
is to run the Console, but to do the "reinstall" repair, you have
to go the the next screen.
It messed me up once, and several other people I know of, just
because of the lazy language used. "r" doesn't have a consistant
usage there. Once you KNOW the difference, you can remember
there are TWO repair areas, and they aren't together on the same
screen!
It looks like engineers or coders wrote the docs for XP. MOO.

I am SO positive of myself that I'd bet a free cup of coffee at
any company cafeteria during break time!

Pop <g>


| On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 20:47:48 GMT, Michael wrote:
|
| > Installing W2k *after* XP? Bad move. Should not have been
fatal. I
| > thought they could/would share the same boot files. In
retrospect, I
| > believe I only needed to replace the XP sys files (I'd saved
them,
| > anyway) and didn't need to go the "repair" route.
|
| Here's a link to an article describing a method of installing
Win2000 after
| XP that you may want to save for future reference:
| http://www.dougknox.com/xp/tips/xp_repair_2k.htm
|
| If you were just mulitbooting XP and Win2000, the hurdles would
have been
| more simple. Adding DOS to the mix, I think I would have opted
to use a
| third party boot manager.
|
| --
| Sharon F
| MS-MVP ~ Windows XP Shell/User

 

[Michael]

I think he *did* want to insult you, but let's face it, you're an awful
easy target. You screwed up almost everything you touched and then
blamed it on the operating system. What should have been an uneventful
upgrade turned into a Cecil B. DeMille production because of *your*
blundering and failure to follow simple instructions. Waaaah, waaah
waaah, I have to *read* something? Yes, little girl, it *does* help to
read the instructions.

I read every KB and Tech paper available. I also commuinicated with
several other IT associates.

The only caveat I received was that I would need to do a clean install
of W2k as it would not adjust to the vastly different computer.

*I* didn't screw anything up. The drive had a propriatry MBR that would
not allow the drive to be formatted (?) until the MBR was "wiped".
Manually with a Dos program.

I consuleted several "manuals", documents and Usenet postings---none
accounted for the pitfalls that awaited me. In retrospect, most agree
that it is a miracle all my data migrated and arrived in a pristine
fashion condidering the traps in front of me.

I am not a girl nor little? Why would you assume a girl would be an
"easy target"?

Your attitude confirms the worst perceptions people hold of MS loyalists.

It's always someone elses fault. Your accusations might hold weight if I
did not consult, research and plan this operation in great detail.

No, the burden of proof is on you to show where I might have found
reason not to proceed as I did. I still have piles of info to use as
evidence should you wish to challenge me. I relied upon a diverse range
of experts as I knew this would be complicated. Everthing was laid out
and rehearsed.

I'm sure your reality demands failure bases on not "following
instructions"--in this case you'll have to find another straw man.

 

[Michael]

Fascinating thread: Read with great interest, even a little
empathy and sympathy.

Know what I think the -real- problem is/was?
When you use the CD for "Repair", you do NOT take the first
path toward Repair that pops up! You go to the NEXT screen, and
do the Repair from there! I think the first "repair" reference
is to run the Console, but to do the "reinstall" repair, you have
to go the the next screen.
It messed me up once, and several other people I know of, just
because of the lazy language used. "r" doesn't have a consistant
usage there. Once you KNOW the difference, you can remember
there are TWO repair areas, and they aren't together on the same
screen!
It looks like engineers or coders wrote the docs for XP. MOO.

I am SO positive of myself that I'd bet a free cup of coffee at
any company cafeteria during break time!

Pop <g>

Sorry Pop, I did go to the second screen. The first screen is repair
console...

Actually I had the repair console loaded and tried that route before
going to the direct boot from the CD. None of the options on the repair
console were sufficient to repair the "damaage".

Yes, in retrospect I do believe I only needed to replace the W2k boot
files with XP---However, I did not kinow at the time they were the
problem. Since I preformed fixboot and bootcfg [sp] I concluded the
problem was elsewhere.

No, I quoted how MS defines repair in XP---It means re-install. Again,
in W2k one has the option of recovery console, or a quick repair (that
examines system files, drivers etc) or manual repair (one chooses which
areas to repair) or, one can choose to use an Emergency Repair Disk (yet
another repair option) that relies on registry data.

None of those various "repair" options from W2k (Why/Why not?) remotlely
resemble the re-install which occurs during the repair (not recovery)
option in XP.

Again, and I hope finally? XP (and I quote the Help file) does not
offer an option of automated or manual repair outside of the repair
console. It appears rather clear what will happen when you choose R from
the CD boot:

[quoted]
Feature: Windows Installation compact disc
When to use it: When you cannot start the computer in Safe Mode, neither
Last Known Good nor Recovery Console has been successful, and you have
no backup to use with Automated System Recovery.
What it does: Reinstalls the operating system. You will then need to
reinstall your applications and restore your data files from backups.
Available on: All versions of Windows XP.

So, forget about how the world perceivs *repair*---in XP is means
r-install. As odd as that is, it should be noted on the option screen.
It's a loaded gun and most people think they're using blanks.

 

[Michael]

Here's a link to an article describing a method of installing Win2000 after
XP that you may want to save for future reference:
http://www.dougknox.com/xp/tips/xp_repair_2k.htm

If you were just mulitbooting XP and Win2000, the hurdles would have been
more simple. Adding DOS to the mix, I think I would have opted to use a
third party boot manager.

No, Sharon, DOS was not the factor. It was in, had to be in before
XP---they were fine (as is Dos with W2k in my other machine)together

The two flaws were the odd MBR that prohibitted formatting the disk the
odd and wrong way XP defines "repair"----it is not. Once wiped,
formattin was SOP.

And the deceptive repair option---which isn't...

No, MS should simply give one the choice of the console and say your
next option will result in re-install.

It is folly to suggest one would perceive "r" (repair) is going to
re-install the OS? That is the most drastic drastic step and I don't
believe it should be allowed to be chosen without warning.

In fact, there should be a "fail-safe" screen that appears asking "are
you sure you want to re-install Windows?"

Face it, the OS is loaded with warnings "Do you want to empty the
recycle bin" DUH? ---what more serious option is there than wiping
your OS out--and MS offers a deceptive title for the action and no
confirmation that you agree to the consequences.

 

[Phil McCracken]

Responses in line....

You may know part of my story...I wrote Microsoft today and am awaiting
word...

I purchaced a new computer about two weeks ago. (It came with XP PRO
installed,)

This is very complicated...bear with me

My goal (old PC had died)... I needed to move the data over from two
small drives to the new large drive. (I did receive the full install XP
Pro CD)

Further, I wanted to format a small partition and (to boot with DOS)
repartition the new drive.

Well, the new drive had a single partition (NTFS) nearly 40 gig. It also
had a small "utility" partition" 47 meg.

So, I was forced to reformat (wipe out XP PRO?) the drive----

You don't say what you used to format the drive--you could have used
your XP CD.

But that did not remove the small utility partition!---(or so I found
out after reformatting and creating new partitions...)

FDISK only "saw" a single, unformatted drive after all that effort.

Why were you using FDISK and not the XP CD?

I had to delete the Master Boot Record and reformat the drive...again.

Which you wouldn't have to do if you had used the XP CD to format and
partition the drive.

So, I re-install XP Pro from the CD. Of course it prompted me to
"Activate" it.

Not only did I not know what that meant (then, I thought it meant
"register")...the computer was not, and still does not have Internet
access. (I just skipped it and finished install)

The activation process gives you the opportunity to activate by
telephone. Another blunder on your part, not understanding that XP must
be activated, and not following the activation instructions.

Well, I found out what activation meant----I was warned for two more days.

(I was still in the process of migrationg data from my old machine....I
wanted to keep my "old" version of Windows 2000) I figured I'd get to
"activating" it when my project was complete

XP includes a Files and Settings Transfer wizard which is described in
the documentation. Another blunder.

Well, Windows 2000 wouldn't "migrate". I had to do a clean install.
(Yeah, I was warned)

You expected to be able to "migrate" one OS *into* another? What?

And..., since I did that after the install of XP PRO?

Yep, I had to re-install XP PRO again! (Actually I booted from the XP CD
and chose Repair----It went through the reinstall process anyway?!)

At this point you had probably screwed up your XP installation to the
point where a simple repair install wasn't possible.

I again was stupid a couple of days later----after installing the
command console in Windows 2000? (I didn't know the XP cmdcons would
work for both)

Agree completely with the first four words of the sentence.

Well, XP PRO wouldn't boot---so when I ran "repair"? Yep, it went into
a new install phase. Um, I believe I know the difference between setup
and repair---I've run W2k since its release)

Again, it was so screwed up at this point that a simple repair install
wasn't possible. After "migrating" elements of 2k how would the XP
install routine have any way of knowing what you were trying to do? If
you wanted XP at this point, a clean install was *necessary*.

An aside? That is odd---In Windows 2000, I have had to use "repair" (
"choose "R"?) countless times and it never started an install from
scratch...

Not surprised that you needed to repair your 2k installation "countless
times".

All is well now. I have my small DOS partition, I have a reformatted
drive and can boot to XP Pro and Windows 2000. Whew! What a week.

For a procedure that would have taken a few hours at most if not for
your own blunders.

However, after the repair/re-install of XP PRO (following the Windows
2000 install)---I have received no warning to activate!

If there's no prompt to activate, why worry? Of course you don't mention
if your XP CD is OEM or retail. If the former, it could be
preactivated, meaning it is "bios locked" and won't install on another
PC, which precludes the need for activation. This doesn't explain, of
course, the initial activation prompt, but nonetheless if it doesn't
prompt you to activate, it means it's activated already.

Further, I went to Programs/Accessories/Systems Tools---and there is no
opportunity to activate (per the MS website). I will still have to do it
by phone as the machine is not and probably won't be connected to the
Internet for some time...but as of now---I get no warning and see no
means to activate.

I am certain it is not activated. I read in a Microsoft newsgroup to
run the program "jellybean". All the checkboxes are greyed out and it
tell me so.

How can you be certain of anything at this point?

So, why was I "warned" after the first install and even given a daily
warning on days 29 & 28 to activate? ---

Don't know.

(Before the second and third re-installs?)

Again, no warning after the second install (after installing Windows
2000) or the third install after installing the Windows 2000 command
console?

Could be, I suppose, that the fact that 2K components were installed had
*everything* screwed up.

I have no idea how much time I have left, how I'll activate it and while
it appears I do have to (or at least I did for three days...)---Why
isn't there any warning of how much time I have left or the option there
to "do it"? (or a means to do it?)

I would probably prefer to do it over the Internet---punching in 50
numbers is not my strongest suit...I never get the 25 numbers in from
the cd key under two or three tries...

Again, not too surprising.

Seriously, this seems very odd indeed!

I understand that reformatting the drive and reinstalling
might/would/should require Activation on an OEM install----but I don't
understand why that option (warning---means to do it in the System
utils) is no longer there after the 2nd and 3rd re-installs?

No, in fact, the need to activate is *less* likely with an OEM install.

So, can you explain this--?

Also, since I do have access to the Internet with another computer (Duh,
I'm using one now!), can I use this one some how (I doubt it) instead of
the phone?

Sorry for the long story...

But, (I do wish "repair" in XP PR didn't go to a full install)....

No, I didn't lose my applications, but I did lose all configuration and
settings. In Windows 2000, repair means repair...It only fixed what was
wrong---it was not an install. XP just started install on it's own, and
said it would take x minutes...

You're asking to much. You obviously screwed things up *beyond* repair.

So, it is obvious I'll need to activate--- I don't know how much time I
have left?

Oh, please don't refer me to the manufacturer---we have some outstanding
issues.

I'll bet you do.

Before I purchased, they knew my intention to have a Fat partition (I
knew I'd have to reinstall after I sysed DOS and wanted to make sure I
got a full CD)

If you want anything other than a standard OEM installation, and it's
expected to be a condition of the sale, did you get it in writing? Was
that fact documented on the invoice you received with the computer? Did
you read the warranty *before* the purchase?

----After the job was done, or after they made the sale?

They are of no help with anything...After I told them I reformated the
drive for DOS---they told my they wouldn't support me...So, I'm on my
own and I think time is running out...

This is a standard caveat with OEM systems. The OEM will support only
their factory installation. This is to protect them from blundering oafs
like you who think they should be able to screw everything up and have
an underachieving support person in India get them out of it.

Michael

If your computer is working now, and doing what you want it to do, be
happy. If it's not nagging you to activate, don't worry about it. Leave
well enough alone.

 

[Sharon F]

Good of you to not blame me---you saw my response to WS?

I will probably grow to appreciate the advantages XP holds (allready
stole some icons for W2k!). No, it is not fair to compare it to W2k.
And yes, there were some rough starts with W2k---when I longed for NT.

Sharon, I try to remain accomodating. I jumped into IT after I was 40
(nearly a decade ago)---I love it and look forward to change. However my
other note does address some valid concerns. The last two weeks needn't
have gone the way they did. I was asking very little and shouldn't have
been jumping through hoops. Thanks for you calming influence. The
migration is nearly complete, I'm looking forward to using the stuff
instead of getting it to work!

Michael, good luck to you with this setup and enjoy it!

 

[Michael]

Responses in line....

And in kind...

You don't say what you used to format the drive--you could have used
your XP CD.

I used Partition Magic. From Dos/Floppy. I believed PM gave me more
control over the multi-partitioning and advance diagnostics that PM allows.

Why were you using FDISK and not the XP CD?

After partitioning, my first step required me to install DOS. It must
go in first. I had my floppy ready to go---it did not "see" anything
but a single unformatted partition. As did subsequent utilities with
direct disk access.

Which you wouldn't have to do if you had used the XP CD to format and
partition the drive.

Again, XP was a secondary phase. I did not consider using XP, it was
not part of my migration progression--- until I had dealt with phase
one, the FAT dos partition.

The activation process gives you the opportunity to activate by
telephone. Another blunder on your part, not understanding that XP must
be activated, and not following the activation instructions.

Upon completion of install, I believe I was given two choice on the
screen? Activate via the Internet or do it later.

As per my manual? It treats the issue in retrospect. That is, following
it as a guide, it is an afterthought:

"During set-up I *was* [my emphasis] prompted to "activate" [not my
quotes]....

Again, I will probably now read the multiple pages of a EULA that would
disclose a procedure that I have never heard of nor is not by any
stretch commoon practice---

Given that, I would suspect most people do not "Activate" then. Further,
I had barely begun my effort. I merely wanted XP "in" so I could use it
to migrate my info from the other box. I hoped that W2k would migrate,
so I didn't choose to clean install it first. Again, XP as a minor tool
in the process and the likely primary OS. It was a stopgap to allow the
me to proceed. I didn't wish to spend any more time than necessary with
it. Given the above, why should I stop the process when there was no
evidence doing so would do anything but slow what was going to be an
intense migration of over 20gig of data and an OS that would be my
primary.

XP includes a Files and Settings Transfer wizard which is described in
the documentation. Another blunder.

I used it. It didn't have a chance at configuring W2k to face the
complexities of the new box. I knew going in that it was not likely W2k
would escape a clean install.

You expected to be able to "migrate" one OS *into* another? What?

No. I expected (hoped) to migrate W2k as a stand alone OS. I would be
my primary OS. Where did I indicate W2k would migrate *into* XP. Don't
read between the lines. Of course you haven't followed this or you not
have missed the distinction.

At this point you had probably screwed up your XP installation to the
point where a simple repair install wasn't possible.

Hmpf. That should have been my choice. Or, as per the repair in W2k, I
would have found out if it was viable rather than the OS not
distinguishing between *repair" and install.

While your claim may be correct? We won't know. Repair---as most would
define it---is not an option. It exists as a choice in name only.

Agree completely with the first four words of the sentence.

Well, your true character is finally showing. When you run out of facts,
assult your opponent.

Again, it was so screwed up at this point that a simple repair install
wasn't possible. After "migrating" elements of 2k how would the XP
install routine have any way of knowing what you were trying to do? If
you wanted XP at this point, a clean install was *necessary*.

Wrong again. XP is mearly too limited to perform such a task. The only
"damage" done by loading the command console was to the boot files.
Easily fixed by W2k. Are you familiar with the degree of repair offered
in W2k. The choices, levels? No, only bad engineering/progamming
prevents XP from preforming such a minor repair.

You clearly have little experience with the ability to W2k to handle
much more complicate repair routines. Again, why that was neglected in
XP (which was released after W2k) isn't rational.

Not surprised that you needed to repair your 2k installation "countless
times".

I'll let that pass. You don't have a clue what I've done in the 4 1/2
years that I've had W2k. However, with little evidence of W2k experience
on your part? You would probably consider many tasks ask beyond the
realm of XP. Again, repair in W2k is a breeze. It is repair, not install.

For a procedure that would have taken a few hours at most if not for
your own blunders.

No, the blunders took little time to fix---they were simply avoidable
with a more robust OS.

It was a methodical process and I didn't work 24/7.

If there's no prompt to activate, why worry? Of course you don't mention
if your XP CD is OEM or retail. If the former, it could be
preactivated, meaning it is "bios locked" and won't install on another
PC, which precludes the need for activation. This doesn't explain, of
course, the initial activation prompt, but nonetheless if it doesn't
prompt you to activate, it means it's activated already.

Yep, you have the same questions and lack of answers I did. And that's
why I'm here. I did mention the manufacturer provided me with a disk.
More than once. It was a condition of purchase knowing I would have to
install after DOS. You're tiresome...

But you are correct---I was seeking an explanation that, um, you don't
have. I was just laying out the facts. Sorry that they don't fit your
perfect world. To bad you didn't start out admitting that this was an
anomoly instead of assigning blame.

How can you be certain of anything at this point?

Oh, I can see that you are way behind in this thread...

Don't know.

Sure you don't want to blame me? Seems that's the ususal course when you
don't know?

Could be, I suppose, that the fact that 2K components were installed had
*everything* screwed up.

Yeah, blame W2k. Me, W2k---how about terrorists? Man, you have a short
list of answers.

Again, not too surprising.

Were you a fat kid who got beat up all the time. Do you feel secure now
that Usenet allows you to lash out?

No, in fact, the need to activate is *less* likely with an OEM install.

There you go with your facts. I'm here 'cause your facts are
contradicted by empirical evidence.

You're asking to much. You obviously screwed things up *beyond* repair.

Oh you are behind. It's all fixed.

I'll bet you do.

And more since you read this outdated post.

If you want anything other than a standard OEM installation, and it's
expected to be a condition of the sale, did you get it in writing? Was
that fact documented on the invoice you received with the computer? Did
you read the warranty *before* the purchase?

You forgot fingerprints, DNA and a criminal background check.

This is a standard caveat with OEM systems. The OEM will support only
their factory installation. This is to protect them from blundering oafs
like you who think they should be able to screw everything up and have
an underachieving support person in India get them out of it.

Oh yeah. Reformatting a HD had cause many a triving OEM to bite the
dust. In fact, a small FAT partition is probably the most dangerous
thing one can do to a computer.

Have you the courage to boot out of safe mode? It's a wonderful
world---albeit full of risks you cannot contemplate taking...Then again,
you're already baffled at things that I found silly, needless and wrong.

If your computer is working now, and doing what you want it to do, be
happy. If it's not nagging you to activate, don't worry about it. Leave
well enough alone.

Get a better newsserver or learn how to follow a thread. Did you hear
Franco died?

This issue is so far in the past you're gonna really feel stupid when
you wake up and find out what day it is.

Jeez, I love when I run into adults who confirm my suspicion of how
companies can make a jillion bucks and have a lousey product.

Get yourself into a focus group...you are Exhibit A for a market waiting
to be exploited.

By the way, it really is important to follow a thread --- it won't make
you appear less stupid, but it will save me time answering question that
needn't be asked.

Oh, I forgot to say **** off.

**** off!