A new reason not to buy epson...

A

Arthur Entlich

It's not quite the same. Epson isn't suing over the ink, hey are suing
over the ink container. BMW doesn't make tires, they buy them from an
OEM, sometimes speced to the vehicle. Epson probably doesn't make ink
either, they most likely spec it and order it from ink manufacturers,
however, they probably make the cartridges.

The true is, the printers are just a necessary step in selling the
cartridges; they are, in effect, the container that holds the ink
cartridges. I will give the printer companies this, they spend a lot of
money in R&D, distribution, warranting, advertising and promoting their
printers. Yet they sell them probably at near break even costs. With
that business model they HAVE to overcharge for their inks, to produce a
profit. Dell realized it and so does every printer manufacturer. You
either make the money on the printer sale (where the real expense is) or
you make the money on the consumables.

Then hear comes these companies making ink cartridges or refilling ink
cartridges with ink that costs pennies to produce, and underselling the
ink (relative to the printer OEM) for one third to one tenth the cost.
They have none of the burden or the overhead in making printers, and yet
they can predate the ink and paper sales which wouldn't exist without
the printers.

But the question is whose taking advantage of whom? If the inkjet
printer manufacturers sold the ink cartridges at a reasonable price and
similar profit margins to the 3rd party, they would probably own the
majority of the retail sales. But they cannot do so,, if they give the
printer away. The right choice would be for the companies to charge
appropriately on the printers themselves such that their sale would
provide adequate profit that they could compete in the ink cartridge
market. That would make the decision to buy 3rd party inks less profitable.

Rather than spend so much money and effort on coming up with tricky ways
to make the cartridges non-refillable, and on court cases going after
refillers or ink cartridge manufacturers, all the printer companies
should resituate their heads and finances to have people pay for the
printers more in convention to their costs. Then this whole ink
business would sort itself out.

The whole industry, however, needs to agree to do so in unison, so no
one company has the psychological advantage of "cheaper printers".

Art
 
M

measekite

Arthur said:
It's not quite the same. Epson isn't suing over the ink, hey are
suing over the ink container. BMW doesn't make tires, they buy them
from an OEM, sometimes speced to the vehicle. Epson probably doesn't
make ink either, they most likely

spec it

THEY FORMULATE AND DESIGN THE INK AND THE PRINTER AS A SYSTEM AND THEN
OVERSEE THE QUALITY
and order it from ink manufacturers, however, they probably make the
cartridges.

The true is, the printers are just a necessary step in selling the
cartridges; they are, in effect, the container that holds the ink
cartridges. I will give the printer companies this, they spend a lot
of money in R&D, distribution, warranting, advertising and promoting
their printers. Yet they sell them probably at near break even costs.
With that business model they HAVE to overcharge for their inks, to
produce a profit. Dell realized it and so does every printer
manufacturer. You either make the money on the printer sale (where
the real expense is) or you make the money on the consumables.

Then hear comes these companies making ink cartridges or refilling ink
cartridges with ink that costs pennies to produce, and underselling
the ink (relative to the printer OEM) for one third to one tenth the
cost.

SELLING CRAP AND THEY WILL NOT DISCLOSE WHO THE FORMULATOR IS.
They have none of the burden or the overhead in making printers, and
yet they can predate the ink and paper sales which wouldn't exist
without the printers.

But the question is whose taking advantage of whom? If the inkjet
printer manufacturers sold the ink cartridges at a reasonable price
and similar profit margins to the 3rd party, they would probably own
the majority of the retail sales.

THEY STILL DO
But they cannot do so,, if they give the printer away. The right
choice would be for the companies to charge appropriately on the
printers themselves such that their sale would provide adequate profit
that they could compete in the ink cartridge market. That would make
the decision to buy 3rd party inks less profitable.

Rather than spend so much money and effort on coming up with tricky
ways to make the cartridges non-refillable,
HOOOORAY

and on court cases going after refillers or ink cartridge manufacturers,
FANTASTIC

all the printer companies should resituate their heads and finances to
have people pay for the printers more in convention to their costs.
Then this whole ink business would sort itself out.

The whole industry, however, needs to agree to do so in unison, so no
one company has the psychological advantage of "cheaper printers".

OH YEAH WE NEED MORE ANTI TRUST COLLUSION
 
S

SleeperMan

Arthur said:
It's not quite the same. Epson isn't suing over the ink, hey are
suing over the ink container. BMW doesn't make tires, they buy them
from an OEM,

so does Epson...or any other company...and BMW can complain regarding tyre
dimensions, not tyres themselves...

sometimes speced to the vehicle. Epson probably doesn't make ink
either, they most likely spec it and order it from ink manufacturers,
however, they probably make the cartridges.

The true is, the printers are just a necessary step in selling the
cartridges; they are, in effect, the container that holds the ink
cartridges. I will give the printer companies this, they spend a lot
of money in R&D, distribution, warranting, advertising and promoting
their printers. Yet they sell them probably at near break even
costs. With that business model they HAVE to overcharge for their inks, to
produce a profit. Dell realized it and so does every printer
manufacturer. You either make the money on the printer sale (where
the real expense is) or you make the money on the consumables.

Then hear comes these companies making ink cartridges or refilling ink
cartridges with ink that costs pennies to produce, and underselling
the ink (relative to the printer OEM) for one third to one tenth the cost.
They have none of the burden or the overhead in making printers, and
yet they can predate the ink and paper sales which wouldn't exist
without the printers.

But the question is whose taking advantage of whom? If the inkjet
printer manufacturers sold the ink cartridges at a reasonable price
and similar profit margins to the 3rd party, they would probably own
the majority of the retail sales. But they cannot do so,, if they
give the printer away. The right choice would be for the companies
to charge appropriately on the printers themselves such that their
sale would provide adequate profit that they could compete in the ink
cartridge
market. That would make the decision to buy 3rd party inks less
profitable.
Rather than spend so much money and effort on coming up with tricky
ways to make the cartridges non-refillable, and on court cases going after
refillers or ink cartridge manufacturers, all the printer companies
should resituate their heads and finances to have people pay for the
printers more in convention to their costs. Then this whole ink
business would sort itself out.

The whole industry, however, needs to agree to do so in unison, so no
one company has the psychological advantage of "cheaper printers".

Art

in short, i'd say one of problems is life of a printer. Company wants to
make a profit of each unit. OK. So, overcharges ink inthat way that printer
is paid out (or profit is made) in a year or so. Why so quick? Because
printers have only about 18 months life. If they would make printers with
longer life expectancy, they could sell ink cheaper and expect printer to
make profit in, say 2 or 3 years...So, it's their fault - because they make
crappy units who die just after warranty expires...
 
S

SleeperMan

measekite said:
MORE HORSESHIT!!!

DO NOT CONFUSE THE ENGINEERING, FORMULATION AND DESIGN WITH THE MFG TO
SPECIFICATIONS.


who gives the horseshit about this...important is that ink is there...

SURE AND THEY RISK LOSING THE EPSON CONTRACT, LAWSUIES AND PATENT
VIOLATIONS SO THEY CAN SELL (RELATIVE) A FEW DROPS OF INK TO THE
IDIOTS IN THIS NG. NOW THAT IS COWSHIT

nope. If they change name it's already enough regarding this...
I THINK YOU NEED TO GO BACK TO SLEEP AND COUNT URINE SHEEP
SHEEPSHIT!!!

YOU MUST BE BROKE.

nope, just not as stupid as you ---
 
S

SleeperMan

Frank said:
Brilliant! Even an idiot like meashershithead could (well maybe)
figure that one out.
Frank

The difference between this and Epson is at Epson you must use chip
resetter, at Canon not...
 
M

measekite

SleeperMan said:
Frank wrote:
FURTIE LOVE TO REFILL WITH SOMETHING HE KNOWS NOT WHAT IT IS
AND DA LOW LIFE COCKROACH COMES TO THE PARTY. NICE TO SEE DA OLD FART
IS STILL GETTING MY MESSAGE.
 
M

measekite

SleeperMan said:
measekite wrote:




who gives the horseshit about this...important is that ink is there...





nope. If they change name it's already enough regarding this...




nope, just not as stupid as you ---
DUMSHIT
 
M

measekite

SleeperMan said:
Arthur Entlich wrote:



so does Epson...or any other company...and BMW can complain regarding tyre
dimensions, not tyres themselves...

sometimes speced to the vehicle. Epson probably doesn't make ink



in short, i'd say one of problems is life of a printer. Company wants to
make a profit of each unit. OK. So, overcharges ink inthat way that printer
is paid out (or profit is made) in a year or so. Why so quick? Because
printers have only about 18 months life. If they would make printers with
longer life expectancy, they could sell ink cheaper and expect printer to
make profit in, say 2 or 3 years...So, it's their fault - because they make
crappy units who die just after warranty expires...
MY IP4000 IS OVER 16 MONTHS OLD AND STILL GOING STRONG. AND OF COURSE I
AM USING OEM INK
 
S

SleeperMan

measekite said:
MY IP4000 IS OVER 16 MONTHS OLD AND STILL GOING STRONG. AND OF
COURSE I AM USING OEM INK

my Ip4000 is about the same age and my, too is still going strong. And of
course i'm using aftermarket ink.
 
S

SleeperMan

measekite said:
FURTIE LOVE TO REFILL WITH SOMETHING HE KNOWS NOT WHAT IT IS

AND DA LOW LIFE COCKROACH COMES TO THE PARTY. NICE TO SEE DA OLD FART
IS STILL GETTING MY MESSAGE.

BTW...do you guys know that on litre of printer ink costs about 2000 $ ?
Just calculate - one cart with, say, 5 ml of ink, costs.....man, it's more
expensive than gold...
 
F

Frank

SleeperMan said:
BTW...do you guys know that on litre of printer ink costs about 2000 $ ?
Just calculate - one cart with, say, 5 ml of ink, costs.....man, it's more
expensive than gold...

Meashershithead doesn't care. He's filthy rich (and extremely stupid)!
Frank
 
M

measekite

SleeperMan said:
measekite wrote:



my Ip4000 is about the same age and my, too is still going strong. And of
course i'm using aftermarket ink.
IF ONE HAS A HIGH PRINTLOAD THEY MAY BE ABLE TO GET AWAY WITH SOME
LABELS BUT YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING
 
A

Andrew McLean

BTW...do you guys know that on litre of printer ink costs about 2000 $
? Just calculate - one cart with, say, 5 ml of ink, costs.....man,
it's more expensive than gold...

Frightening when you consider that Canon buys it from a company they
won't name, so you have no idea what you're buying, for about $1 per
litre. Just like any compatible brand ink. Then puts it in cheap, low-
tech, miniscule, plastic containers, relabels them and then sells them to
us for the equivalent of about $2000 per liter. What just happened here?
How is this not robbery? How is it they worry if anyone else is making
cartridges yet turn a blind eye when they pick our pockets. Oh, I see, as
long as it's not their pockets that are being picked.

Andrew
 
F

Frank

SleeperMan wrote:

my Ip4000 is about the same age and my, too is still going strong. And of
course i'm using aftermarket ink.

And I'm using an i9900 with after market ink and no problems what so ever.
Let that fool of a moron buy oem carts. Serves his stuck-on-stupid ass
right to have to pay for the vacations of the top Canon execs.
What a loser he is.
Frank
 
L

Lou

Arthur Entlich wrote:

snipped
The whole industry, however, needs to agree to do so in unison, so no
one company has the psychological advantage of "cheaper printers".

Art

And this will happen when pigs fly over a frozen hell <sigh>

Lou
 
L

Lou

Arthur Entlich wrote:

snipped
Personally, it would give me great pause about buying a new Epson printer.

Art

And the absurd problems with Lexmark printer ink prices should wipe them out,
but people are ignorant <sigh>

Lou
 

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