8 GB barrier?

[Stan Brown]

I've been using Partition Magic to move and resize partitions on my
Win XP Pro SP2 machine (an Acer notebook TM4504LMi, purchased Jan
2005). The idea is to set up a Linux/Windows dual boot.

The Linux folks say the easiest thing is just to free up 10 GB at
the start of the disk and install there. But Partition Magic warns
me that if my Windows partition starts after 8 GB my machine "may"
not be bootable.

Is there anything to this 8 GB barrier for recent machines, or does
it apply only to older ones? How can I find out whether it affects
my machine, without trying it (and possibly creating a doorstop)?

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"To put it bluntly but fairly, anyone today who doubts that the
variety of life on this planet was produced by a process of
evolution is simply ignorant -- inexcusably ignorant, in a world
where three out of four people have learned to read and write."
--Daniel Dennett, /Darwin's Dangerous Idea/ (1995), page 46

 

[-rwxrw-r--]

I've been using Partition Magic to move and resize partitions on my
Win XP Pro SP2 machine (an Acer notebook TM4504LMi, purchased Jan
2005). The idea is to set up a Linux/Windows dual boot.

The Linux folks say the easiest thing is just to free up 10 GB at
the start of the disk and install there. But Partition Magic warns
me that if my Windows partition starts after 8 GB my machine "may"
not be bootable.

Is there anything to this 8 GB barrier for recent machines, or does
it apply only to older ones? How can I find out whether it affects
my machine, without trying it (and possibly creating a doorstop)?

I don't know why it was suggested to free up space at the beginning of the
drive? Many Linux distros will automatically handle the installation and
create free space at the end of the drive. If you want to use PM, then you
can, if a particular Linux distro won't do this for you. But free up the
space AFTER your XP installation.

 

[Dave Patrick]

This hardware limitation for the Windows NT *system partition* was 7.8 gB
because NTLDR would use the INT13 interface when using multi syntax in
boot.ini

Windows 2000/XP/2003 supports large system partitions because it has the
ability to use BIOS INT-13 extensions to boot the operating system on
partitions with more than 1,024 cylinders, or 7.8 GB in size. So check that
the function is enabled in cmos setup.

--
Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

:
| I've been using Partition Magic to move and resize partitions on my
| Win XP Pro SP2 machine (an Acer notebook TM4504LMi, purchased Jan
| 2005). The idea is to set up a Linux/Windows dual boot.
|
| The Linux folks say the easiest thing is just to free up 10 GB at
| the start of the disk and install there. But Partition Magic warns
| me that if my Windows partition starts after 8 GB my machine "may"
| not be bootable.
|
| Is there anything to this 8 GB barrier for recent machines, or does
| it apply only to older ones? How can I find out whether it affects
| my machine, without trying it (and possibly creating a doorstop)?
|
| --
| Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
| http://OakRoadSystems.com/
| "To put it bluntly but fairly, anyone today who doubts that the
| variety of life on this planet was produced by a process of
| evolution is simply ignorant -- inexcusably ignorant, in a world
| where three out of four people have learned to read and write."
| --Daniel Dennett, /Darwin's Dangerous Idea/ (1995), page 46

 

[Bob Harris]

The 8Gig barrier does not apally to XP.

However, it is most common to create new partitions after the existing ones,
else there may be some confusion within XP and its aplications as to which
is C:, D:, etc.

To use Partition Magic most efficiently, first defrag the disk, then run
CHKDSK with the /F parameter, reboot, let it fix any file system errors,
then use PM to make a new partition. A reboot is usually required for PM to
create a new parition from the one on which the operating system currently
resides.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

By "system partition", do you mean the Microsoft definition:

"the partition where ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com files reside -
that is, the partition that contains the loading programs"

or the intuitive definition:
"the partition that contains the operating system"?

*TimDaniels*

 

[Dave Patrick]

Microsoft uses the term boot partition for the partition where the operating
system is installed, while the system partition is the first primary active
partition (where the boot sector and files required to start the operating
system reside)

--
Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

:
| By "system partition", do you mean the Microsoft definition:
|
| "the partition where ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com files reside -
| that is, the partition that contains the loading programs"
|
| or the intuitive definition:
| "the partition that contains the operating system"?
|
| *TimDaniels*

 

[Dave Patrick]

Actually the issue is hardware specific rather than operating system
specific.

--
Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

:
<snip>
| The 8Gig barrier does not apally to XP.
<snip>

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Right. Which definition are your using?

*TimDaniels*

 

[Stan Brown]

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:37:14 -0700 in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, Timothy Daniels favored us
with...

By "system partition", do you mean the Microsoft definition:

"the partition where ntldr, boot.ini, and ntdetect.com files reside -
that is, the partition that contains the loading programs"

or the intuitive definition:
"the partition that contains the operating system"?

A fair question, and I was unaware of the difference.
But on my machine, they're in C: along with all the Windows files.

Just to clarify my question: I wasn't asking about partitions
_larger_ than 8 GB; right now my Windows partition is 20 GB. I was
asking about partitions that _start_ somewhere after 8 GB.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"To put it bluntly but fairly, anyone today who doubts that the
variety of life on this planet was produced by a process of
evolution is simply ignorant -- inexcusably ignorant, in a world
where three out of four people have learned to read and write."
--Daniel Dennett, /Darwin's Dangerous Idea/ (1995), page 46

 

[Stan Brown]

Actually the issue is hardware specific rather than operating system
specific.

This is what I had thought. How can I determine whether starting
the Windows partition above 8 GB is a problem with my hardware,
without trying it and risking an unbootable machine?

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"To put it bluntly but fairly, anyone today who doubts that the
variety of life on this planet was produced by a process of
evolution is simply ignorant -- inexcusably ignorant, in a world
where three out of four people have learned to read and write."
--Daniel Dennett, /Darwin's Dangerous Idea/ (1995), page 46

 

[Dave Patrick]

Poke around in cmos setup (or bios manufacturer's web site) to see if INT-13
extensions are supported. If the mobo bios or controller bios manufacture
date is >= year 2000 then it should be fairly safe to assume extensions are
supported and enabled.

--
Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

:
| This is what I had thought. How can I determine whether starting
| the Windows partition above 8 GB is a problem with my hardware,
| without trying it and risking an unbootable machine?
|
| --
| Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
| http://OakRoadSystems.com/
| "To put it bluntly but fairly, anyone today who doubts that the
| variety of life on this planet was produced by a process of
| evolution is simply ignorant -- inexcusably ignorant, in a world
| where three out of four people have learned to read and write."
| --Daniel Dennett, /Darwin's Dangerous Idea/ (1995), page 46

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Timothy Daniels favored us with...

A fair question, and I was unaware of the difference.
But on my machine, they're in C: along with all the Windows files.

I only asked because this discussion is being archived
at Google, and although the terminology used by Microsoft
is so counter-intuitive, it *is* Microsoft..., and the Googling
reader should not be further confused by the terminology.
I suspect that the MVPs use the Microsoft terminology, but
some of them might not.

Just to clarify my question: I wasn't asking about partitions
_larger_ than 8 GB; right now my Windows partition is 20 GB. I was
asking about partitions that _start_ somewhere after 8 GB.

For what it's worth, my Dell machine was made in January, 1999,
and it has a Phoenix Tech BIOS, and I have put one or the other
and both the system partition and the boot partition anywhere on
my 120GB HD without a booting problem. I still haven't experi-
mented with >137GB, but I expect that they would still work up there,
too.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Lil' Dave]

He defined both system and boot partitions correctly. No correction needed,
Timothy.

Unless you want to quibble over operating system and boot files, boot files
being part of the operating system.

 

[Stan Brown]

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:19:37 -0700 in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, Timothy Daniels favored us
with...

For what it's worth, my Dell machine was made in January, 1999,
and it has a Phoenix Tech BIOS, and I have put one or the other
and both the system partition and the boot partition anywhere on
my 120GB HD without a booting problem. I still haven't experi-
mented with >137GB, but I expect that they would still work up there,
too.

Thanks Tim!

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"To put it bluntly but fairly, anyone today who doubts that the
variety of life on this planet was produced by a process of
evolution is simply ignorant -- inexcusably ignorant, in a world
where three out of four people have learned to read and write."
--Daniel Dennett, /Darwin's Dangerous Idea/ (1995), page 46

 

[Stan Brown]

Poke around in cmos setup (or bios manufacturer's web site) to see if INT-13
extensions are supported. If the mobo bios or controller bios manufacture
date is >= year 2000 then it should be fairly safe to assume extensions are
supported and enabled.

Thanks. Dave. The BIOS date is 10/12/04; Phoenix's site doesn't say
whether it supports INT 13 or not. Based on what you say, I think
it's likely to be a safe bet.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"To put it bluntly but fairly, anyone today who doubts that the
variety of life on this planet was produced by a process of
evolution is simply ignorant -- inexcusably ignorant, in a world
where three out of four people have learned to read and write."
--Daniel Dennett, /Darwin's Dangerous Idea/ (1995), page 46

 

[Dave Patrick]

Yes it is safe. The next barrier to not cross is ~137 gB from start of disk.

--
Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

:
| Thanks. Dave. The BIOS date is 10/12/04; Phoenix's site doesn't say
| whether it supports INT 13 or not. Based on what you say, I think
| it's likely to be a safe bet.
|
| --
| Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
| http://OakRoadSystems.com/
| "To put it bluntly but fairly, anyone today who doubts that the
| variety of life on this planet was produced by a process of
| evolution is simply ignorant -- inexcusably ignorant, in a world
| where three out of four people have learned to read and write."
| --Daniel Dennett, /Darwin's Dangerous Idea/ (1995), page 46

 

[Bob I]

The BIOS user manual indicates that it does.

http://www.phoenix.com/NR/rdonlyres/5AF5C50D-9E06-4298-9E58-E52BFFCC8D7D/0/userman.pdf

 

[Stan Brown]

Thanks. Dave. The BIOS date is 10/12/04; Phoenix's site doesn't say
whether it supports INT 13 or not. Based on what you say, I think
it's likely to be a safe bet.

[/QUOTE]

The BIOS user manual indicates that it does.

http://www.phoenix.com/NR/rdonlyres/5AF5C50D-9E06-4298-9E58-

E52BFFCC8D7D/0/userman.pdf

Thanks Bob -- also for the link, which I've bookmarked.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"To put it bluntly but fairly, anyone today who doubts that the
variety of life on this planet was produced by a process of
evolution is simply ignorant -- inexcusably ignorant, in a world
where three out of four people have learned to read and write."
--Daniel Dennett, /Darwin's Dangerous Idea/ (1995), page 46

 

[Bob I]

You're welcome. good info.

E52BFFCC8D7D/0/userman.pdf

Thanks Bob -- also for the link, which I've bookmarked.