4th July Rules!

H

Harlan Grove

Norman Harker said:
Re: US's steadiest ally in Europe since 1945

But in the World as a whole it will be Australia. . . .
Click to expand...
....

I won't disagree, but Australia's potential membership in the EU wasn't at
issue.
 
J

josie

... and can't get up!

So, this string isn't excel related, but it's good to see it. The
aspect of the British system I really wish we had in the US is the
no-confidence vote... not that i'd trust our eviscerated,
corporate-owned congress to use it.

Thanks for the chance for a quick vent this lovely ... er...
"Independence Day."
 
A

AlfD

Hi!

Independance Day has passed.

I'll bet that Norman didn't know what he was conjuring up when h
started this thread. Bit of a Sorceror's Apprentice job, I would say
But, thank you Norman.

I've read it all and I feel comfortable. Don't always agree. Bu
there's a lot of convergence, I would say, despite the differences.
How like our own dear Excel.

I do not hold to the philosophy that it is the diferences which defin
us: it is the common ground.

Al
 
H

Harlan Grove

Bob Phillips said:
Oh no, I agree we were just as bad, but at least in those days
we couldn't destroy the world. Like America we did good as well
as bad, but on balance, was the British Empire a force for good?
Click to expand...
....

Probably as much so as Manifest Destiny was a force for good. It all depends
on whether your perspective is that of the descendents of the settlers or of
the indian tribes.

Or in different terms, it all depends on whether you believe the indigenous
peoples of your former colonies just weren't 'civilized' before they were
colonized. There's little doubt Hong Kong and Singapore benefitted
economically, rather more ambiguity about the Indian subcontinent, no doubt
not in the Arab lands, split decision in Africa varying by country (while
the British did a better job there than the other colonial powers, the
British did as much harm as the others when it came to drawing borders), and
see previous comments about Manifest Destiny for Canada, Australia and New
Zealand.
 
H

Harlan Grove

Bob Phillips said:
Undoubtedly true, but was the New Deal a bad thing?
Click to expand...

Question of means and ends. The ends were good and ncessary, but the means
used to secure them were quite similar to those used in single party states
and have caused no end of problems for state-federal relations since.
And whilst we know the Japanese internmnet camps were unjustified,
did FDR have the power to resist? . . .
Click to expand...

Probably not, but you have to look at the crass politics of the matter.
There was some detention in Hawaii, but nowhere near what happened in the
western states, and it didn't last in Hawaii. After Midway, there was no
serious threat of invasion. Perhaps the detention camps continues as long as
they did in the western states because they were simply widely popular, and
FDR being a political creature was giving the people what they wanted? The
more pertinent question would be whether or not FDR had any desire to
resist.
I would argue that Germany only became a member of the clube after
it had reformed (whether by own or others efforts), and was not
still pursuing those aberrations.
Click to expand...

A case could be made that West Germany became a charter member so that
France could keep and eye on it and bind its interests more tightly to those
of western Europe. So along those lines, would the EU and Turkey be better
off with Turkey in or out? And on a slight tangent, which is more likely to
become a member first - Turkey or Serbia?
. . . Taliban and Al-Qaeed, the Philippines, Cambodia, and is now
happeing in Uzbekistan etc, etc. We have learnt nothing.
Click to expand...

Taliban/Al Qaeda I can understand as unforseen offshoots from supporting
Afghan partisans during the Soviet occupation. But the Philippines and
Cambodia? And are you drawing parallels between these countries and groups
and Turkey? Turkey may not be a gentle country (as the Kurds and Armenians
can testify), but it's more democratic than most, certainly more so that
most former British colonies until recent years.
. . . But I don't see the US as cleaning up any mess, they
are more in their own self-interest, and it will come back and
bite them just as it did with us.
Click to expand...

Kuwait was right, Iraq was wrong. Supporting the Saudi royal family is way
wrong, but demographics may force a change of policy. Certainly the US
dependence on oil skews its policy choices. However, when oil isn't the
primary focus, I think the US has made more right moves than wrong, though
the game could be stacked so it's a sure loser in the long run. What the US
hasn't done is support democratic movements like it did in Central and South
America. That's a shame.
 
N

Norman Harker

Hi AlfD!

Re: I'll bet that Norman didn't know what he was conjuring up

Agreed!!

But unlike a lot of similar forums the debate has been very civilized
even when opposing viewpoints have been expressed.

Maybe we'll make it a habit every time the "Yanks" have a holiday most
of us don't.

But here's to all who contributed and wishing everyone who's back at
work had a good holiday.
 
D

Don Guillett

But unlike a lot of similar forums the debate has been very civilized
even when opposing viewpoints have been expressed
Click to expand...
Not necessarily, I have sent viruii to all those with which I disagree.
 

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