320GB: Deskstar T7K500 or Caviar SE16 ?

[Rob]

Probably they still have bad batches (problem with the original
DeatStars) or have better and worse manufacturing sites...

I have about 4TBs of older Maxtors (around 40) running ansd never
lost a byte, except on some that were dropped in shipping. But
they are all in a climatized server room and all have a fan
before them...

Yeah, that's the trick - keeeping them cool. Mine *never* go
above 40C and usually are running at around 32-34C.
SMART monitoring shows almost no grown defects, so more than
happy - in fact, I haven't bought anything but hgst drives for a few
years now, whether for work (servers, hard-worked PCs (eg digital
video editing systems)) or indeed my home machines.
The good thing about having a bad (undeserved IME) reputation
is that it keeps them cheap! ))

 

[Arno Wagner]

Yeah, that's the trick - keeeping them cool. Mine *never* go
above 40C and usually are running at around 32-34C.
SMART monitoring shows almost no grown defects, so more than
happy - in fact, I haven't bought anything but hgst drives for a few
years now, whether for work (servers, hard-worked PCs (eg digital
video editing systems)) or indeed my home machines.
The good thing about having a bad (undeserved IME) reputation
is that it keeps them cheap! ))

Well, they are a product with a ''surptising'' behaviour, namely
they die fast if too hot. Not that anybody competent should be
too surprised by that....

Arno

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Or they just like (a) good power supply.

Well, they are a product with a ''surptising'' behaviour, namely
they die fast if too hot.

He is talking about Hitachis, babblebot.

Not that anybody competent

Which obviously you are not if you *knowingly* installed drives
that "were dropped in shipping".

should be too surprised by that....

We are not, babblebot.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Try again, Folkert. They were in an HP NAS device with a 400W PSU.

Yes, and? What are the 5 and 12 Volt specifications.
What the drive sees as the PS is what it sees connected at the Molex.
To the drive 'underpowered' is when the voltage it sees drops below
minimum specification.

Isn't it just.
Right.

By the way, you may care to get your eyes tested.

I was careful not to say _all_ data.

As in 'careful' *not* to say that you lost some data, Mike?
As in 'deliberate'?

Data is what is meaningful information in one way or other to someone, it
is your/my 'data', the rest is just random bits in sectors not used by us.
So if you recovered "data" you recovered all what was meaningful, *your*
data, all of it, "all" doesn't need to be specified. On the other hand, if
you *didn't* recover all of it, that is what needs futher specification.

Nothing wrong with my eyes, Mike. Something wrong with yours then?

I've already told you.

No you didn't. I asked you what the failure mode in DFT was that
lead you to the conclusion that the drives could not be recovered.
Even you should be able to follow simple lines of conversation so
obviously you don't want to say.
Obviously you prefer to badmouth Hitachi drives instead.

****wit.

Fred wins.

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

Yes, and? What are the 5 and 12 Volt specifications.

I don't know, and couldn't care less. The unit is designed to run 4
drives 24/7 as it's a rackmount NAS device. If you want to know, go ask
HP.

What the drive sees as the PS is what it sees connected at the Molex.

There aren't any Molex connectors in this device for a start.

As in 'careful' *not* to say that you lost some data, Mike?

Mr. Tomlinson to you, troll. No data was lost.

No you didn't. I asked you what the failure mode in DFT was

No you didn't.

Even you should be able to follow simple lines of conversation
PKB.

Fred wins.

You've won precisely **** all, "Fred".

 

[xorbit]

I hear that the Barracuda's could be better and that the Samsung T133
models are nothing like as good as models from their previous range.

OTOH Deskstar T7K500 and WD SE16s seem better thought of.

Some people have said that the Western Digital's are usually unreliable
but the SE16's seem to be though of as quite reliable by many people.
Also quieter and cooler than expected.

Similarly, I can remember the IBM DeathStar fiasco and have stayed away
from them even if they are now owned by Hitachi. But a lot of people
are saying the Deskstar T7K500 range is very good even if it is a bit
old now.

So which of the two is the better 320GB drive to get for a home desktop
PC?

Hitachi Deskstar T7K500
http://tinyurl.com/po7k2

Western Digital Caviar SE16
http://www.wdcaviar.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=196

I've used 12 Seagates in various builds in the last couple of years. 4
failed completely, 2 others are failing right now. They were in
well-ventilated cases and not moved around.

I wouldn't touch a Deskstar. I have had none that have survived more
than two years.

I've got about 30 WD SEs and SE16 in the field. There are also half a
dozen REs in server and desktop systems. Of all those, one RE was lost
due to a bad power spike that took out the computer it was in. It
didn't fail completely, of four partitions, only the first was
unreadable. Its in the process of RMA.

Of the SE16, my preferences are the 320gb and the 250gb drives. Both
fast. Haven't had the SE16s long enough to get a feel for reliability.
But I have had a lot of SEs, all are running great.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

[kony]

I hear that the Barracuda's could be better and that the Samsung T133
models are nothing like as good as models from their previous range.

OTOH Deskstar T7K500 and WD SE16s seem better thought of.

Some people have said that the Western Digital's are usually unreliable
but the SE16's seem to be though of as quite reliable by many people.
Also quieter and cooler than expected.

Similarly, I can remember the IBM DeathStar fiasco and have stayed away
from them even if they are now owned by Hitachi. But a lot of people
are saying the Deskstar T7K500 range is very good even if it is a bit
old now.

So which of the two is the better 320GB drive to get for a home desktop
PC?

Hitachi Deskstar T7K500
http://tinyurl.com/po7k2

Western Digital Caviar SE16
http://www.wdcaviar.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=196

Given adequate cooling and good power, seek the benchmarks
and then compare against attainable prices. It's always a
tradeoff with price... because you should never put all your
apples in one basket, if reliability is the slightest bit
important you will have some amount of redundancy sufficient
to fully recover within the timetable you require... pretty
much making slight reliability differences in desktop use,
irrelevant.

Further, presuming you seek to buy current generation
drives, accurate reliability data can only be had in
retrospect. Far easier to have hindsight about a Deathstar
than presume that has any bearing on Hitachi today. Same
for WD, Seagate, etc. Most people reading your thread won't
be using either of the two drives you mentioned, yet most
will not have had a driver failure on their current system
(yet, unless it's quite old at this point).

 

[Rod Speed]

Given adequate cooling and good power, seek the
benchmarks and then compare against attainable prices.

Waste of time with those drives, you wouldnt even
be able to pick it with a proper double blind trial.

It's always a tradeoff with price...

Nope, not when rebates etc completely swamp that effect.

because you should never put all your apples in one basket,
if reliability is the slightest bit important you will have some
amount of redundancy sufficient to fully recover within the
timetable you require... pretty much making slight reliability
differences in desktop use, irrelevant.

Waffle given his question.

 

[kony]

Waste of time with those drives, you wouldnt even
be able to pick it with a proper double blind trial.

Nor would you most CPUs that cost upwards of $100 more, but
they sell...

Nope, not when rebates etc completely swamp that effect.

yes, because including rebates or not, there's still the
actual price paid. I didn't restrict price to mean only
non-discounted full retail pricing.

Waffle given his question.

Applicable. There is no one choice that would be a
substantial increase in reliability, while redundancy will
cover any of them failing.

 

[Rod Speed]

Nor would you most CPUs that cost upwards of $100 more, but they sell...

Irrelevant to your stupid 'advice'

yes, because including rebates or not, there's
still the actual price paid. I didn't restrict price
to mean only non-discounted full retail pricing.

I was talking about that purported TRADEOFF, stupid.

Waffle.

There is no one choice that would be a substantial increase
in reliability, while redundancy will cover any of them failing.

Waffle.