2 gigs of memory-- doing nothing

[Mr. Coffee]

So I bought a new laptop with twice the memory of my old machine, but I can't
run any more programs than before. Any time the commit charge gets much over
1 gig, things start failing. The physical memory is recognized, but doesn't
seem to be used. what am I missing?

Much obliged.

 

[JS]

Start by running Memtest86+,
it runs from a boot disk and should eliminate or
confirm if your ram is bad.
Let it run for as long as you can, 2,4,6,8 or more hours, if no errors by
then your ram is OK.
See: http://www.memtest.org/

JS

 

[Jim]

So I bought a new laptop with twice the memory of my old machine, but I
can't
run any more programs than before. Any time the commit charge gets much
over
1 gig, things start failing. The physical memory is recognized, but
doesn't
seem to be used. what am I missing?

Much obliged.

Your system might need a bigger page file. Commit charge applies to the
pagefile.
Jim

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:23:00 -0800, Mr. Coffee <Mr.

So I bought a new laptop with twice the memory of my old machine, but I can't
run any more programs than before.

How much RAM you have doesn't affect the number of programs you can
run, it affects the performance of those programs when they are
running simultaneously.

Any time the commit charge gets much over
1 gig, things start failing.

Please help us to help you. What does "things start failing" mean?
Exactly what happens? If you get an error message, please quote it
verbatim.

How much memory did the old machine have, and how much does the new
one have?

For information on how to make a good newsgroup posting, read
http://www.dts-l.com/goodpost.htm and

 

[Mr. Coffee]

How much RAM you have doesn't affect the number of programs you can

run, it affects the performance of those programs when they are
running simultaneously.

I'm very surprised to learn this. Clearly I need to be educated.

My old machine had 1 gig RAM. The new one has 2. PC Doctor says the memory
is fine. Windows Task Manager recognizes 2 gigs physical memory.

What I mean by "things start failing" is that additional applications fail
to launch or open applications cease to respond, for example I can't switch
to applications in the task bar. I have seen "Your system is running low on
virtual memory", "An internal error has occurred" (Fireworks), and something
about the 16-bit something-or-other (Quickbooks' primitive timer app). Most
of the time there is no error message, just the usual signs of a machine that
is low on resources.

At such times, memory parameters in Task Manager would read something like
this:

Commit charge
Total: 1306708
Limit: 4000056
Peak: 1674364

Physical Memory
Total: 2062564
Available: 790392
System cache: 984584

The total commit charge never gets over 1.5 gigs and there is always
physical memory "available".

 

[frodo]

The total commit charge never gets over 1.5 gigs and there is always
physical memory "available".

"available" does not mean "unused". it's being used. It sounds like your
memory is just fine.

your descriptions sound like you've got something "bad" running that's
stalling your system. My first inclination is to ask "anything Norton?",
but that's just me. ;-)

the usual recomendations apply:

- scan for badware; AdAware and Spybot are free.
- scan for virus; AVG and AVAST are free
- scan for rootkits; GMER Rootkit scan is free (and others)
- review startup items, reduce to minimum - "Startup Control Panel" and
and "Auto Runs" are free
- review Services starting at boot time, reduce to a minimum. Disable
the "known" "problematic" services (ssdp, upnp, etc). google for
"black viper" for details on xp services.
- If you don't need Windows File Sharing, uninstall it (via TCP/IP
Properties), eliminating the Server and Workstation Services. This is
viable only for a single user machine, no fast-user-switching.
- you do not need the DNS Client Service, and if your hosts file has a
lot of entries having that service running will cause slow downs; set
it's startup type to manual so it won't start.

good luck

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I'm very surprised to learn this.

That's because Windows is a virtual memory operating system. If it
needs to, Windows supplements the RAM you have with the page file,
thereby increasing the virtual memory. So you almost always have all
the total virtual memory (RAM plus page file) you need.

However if you don't have enough RAM, and are therefore in part using
the page file rather than RAM, your performance is negatively impacted
because the page file (being on a slow mechanical device) is *much*
slower than RAM (which runs at electronic speeds)

Clearly I need to be educated.

My old machine had 1 gig RAM. The new one has 2. PC Doctor says the memory
is fine. Windows Task Manager recognizes 2 gigs physical memory.

What I mean by "things start failing" is that additional applications fail
to launch or open applications cease to respond, for example I can't switch
to applications in the task bar. I have seen "Your system is running low on
virtual memory", "An internal error has occurred" (Fireworks), and something
about the 16-bit something-or-other (Quickbooks' primitive timer app). Most
of the time there is no error message, just the usual signs of a machine that
is low on resources.

At such times, memory parameters in Task Manager would read something like
this:

Commit charge
Total: 1306708
Limit: 4000056
Peak: 1674364

Physical Memory
Total: 2062564
Available: 790392
System cache: 984584

The total commit charge never gets over 1.5 gigs and there is always
physical memory "available".

Your problems certainly don't seem to have anything to do with being
short of memory. If anything, it looks like you have considerably more
than you need for the apps you run.

I don't know much about PC Doctor in particular, but most products
like that are nothing but snake oil, and are much more likely to cause
a problem that prevent one. The first thing I would try in your
situation is getting rid of it and seeing if that helps.

Do you run any other optimizing software or other utilities? Which
ones?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

PC Doctor came packaged on my machine, a Lenovo Thinkpad T-61. It tests all
the hardware and appears to be legit. I haven't installed any snake oil,
unless you count Norton. The Thinkpad does have a ton of stuff that runs at
startup.

This is why I'm confused. It appears that I have plenty of memory, but the
apps don't seem to use it or perhaps don't have access to it.

 

[Daave]

I haven't installed any snake oil, unless you count Norton.

Norton's not snake oil; it's molasses.

 

[Daave]

I have seen "Your system is running low on virtual memory"

From "Virtual Memory in Windows XP"
http://www.aumha.org/win5/a/xpvm.htm


Problems with Virtual Memory

It may sometimes happen that the system give "out of memory" messages on
trying to load a program, or give a message about Virtual memory space
being low. Possible causes of this are:

The setting for Maximum Size of the page file is too low, or there is
not enough disk space free to expand it to that size.

The page file has become corrupt, possibly at a bad shutdown. In the
Virtual Memory settings, set to "No page file," then exit System
Properties, shut down the machine, and reboot. Delete PAGEFILE.SYS (on
each drive, if more than just C, set the page file up again and reboot
to bring it into use.

The page file has been put on a different drive without leaving a
minimal amount on C:.

There is trouble with third party software. In particular, if the
message happens at shutdown, suspect a problem with Symantec's Norton
Live update, for which there is a fix posted here. It is also reported
that spurious messages can arise if NAV 2004 is installed. If the
problem happens at boot and the machine has an Intel chipset, the
message may be caused by an early version (before version 2.1) of Intel'
s "Application Accelerator." Uninstall this and then get an up-to-date
version from Intel's site.

Another problem involving Norton Antivirus was recently discovered by
MS-MVP Ron Martell. However, it only applies to computers where the
pagefile has been manually resized to larger than the default setting of
1.5 times RAM -- a practice we discourage. On such machines, NAV 2004
and Norton Antivirus Corporate 9.0 can cause your computer to revert to
the default settings on the next reboot, rather than retain your
manually configured settings. (Though this is probably an improvement on
memory management, it can be maddening if you don't know why it is
happening.) Symantec has published separate repair instructions for
computers with NAV 2004 and NAV Corporate 9.0 installed. [Added by JAE
2/21/06.]

Possibly there is trouble with the drivers for IDE hard disks; in Device
Manager, remove the IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers (main controller) and
reboot for Plug and Play to start over.

With an NTFS file system, the permissions for the page file's drive's
root directory must give "Full Control" to SYSTEM. If not, there is
likely to be a message at boot that the system is "unable to create a
page file."

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

PC Doctor came packaged on my machine, a Lenovo Thinkpad T-61. It tests all
the hardware and appears to be legit. I haven't installed any snake oil,
unless you count Norton.

I count both PC Doctor and Norton anything as snake oil. I would try
running without them to see if that improves your situation.

The Thinkpad does have a ton of stuff that runs at
startup.

You should also look very closely at each to those to see what it is,
why it's there, what the impact on performance is, and whether or not
you need it.

This is why I'm confused. It appears that I have plenty of memory, but the
apps don't seem to use it or perhaps don't have access to it.

No, that's not the problem.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I appreciate all the answers, but all I'm really seeing is that you're
telling me to uninstall Norton. (PC Doctor doesn't run automatically).

I've downloaded and run SpyBot. Nothing there. All the advice from others
about virtual memory is apparently irrelevant, if as you say my problem has
nothing to do with memory.

You suggest disabling startup applications, but wouldn't their impact be
seen in terms of system resources being used? If it's not memory, are there
other parameters in Task Manager I should be monitoring?

All I know is I have half a compuer here, and of course Lenovo offers no
support for the OS, so again I'm grateful for any help.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I really appreciate all the answers, but I don't feel I've gotten anywhere.

I've run Spybot and GMER--nothing there. PC Doctor doesn't run
automatically, so is not part of the picture. Norton may slow things down,
but it didn't disable my 5-yr-old Pentium 3. And even if Norton and all those
mysterious startup processes were slowing things down, wouldn't that show up
as consumed memory resources in Task Manager? Is there some other parameter
in Task Manager that would be more revealing?

All I know is that I have about half a computer here. I can't run more than
four or five plain vanilla applications here. I'm talking things like Office,
IE, Outlook, Dreamweaver, Fireworks, Quickbooks, etc.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I really appreciate the replies, but I'm not sure I've gotten anywhere.

I've run SpyBot and Gmer. Nothing there. PC Doctor doesn't run
automatically, so shouldn't be a factor. Norton may be slowing things down,
but it didn't disable my 5-yr-old 1 gig Pentium 3.

....and if Norton and all those mysterious startup processes are indeed
monopolizing my resources, wouldn't it show up in Task Manager as memory
consumed? If not, what should I be looking at?

AllI know is I can't run more than a handful of plain vanilla office
applications at once.

 

[JS]

You need to find the specific system process that's taking all (there are
lot of sub-processes tied to the 'System' process) the resources.

To do this try Process Explorer:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/SystemInformation/ProcessExplorer.mspx

Once you have Process Explorer installed and running:
In the taskbar select View and check 'Show Process Tree' and 'Show Lower
Pane' options.
(This will provide some of the detailed info you need)
Next click in the toolbar 'View', then 'Select Columns' then click on the
Process Memory tab.
Check the memory options boxes of interest (Example: Virtual Size)
Then click on and expand the 'System' or 'Explorer' process to expand and
identify the specific sub-process that's using most or all the resources.

Note: some entries like Explorer, System process and svchost may need to be
expanded to show the detail, (sub processes), in this case click on the +
located to the left of the entry.

JS

 

[Daave]

I really appreciate the replies, but I'm not sure I've gotten
anywhere.

I noticed you're using the less-than-perfect Web interface for this
newsgroup. Perhaps you are not seeing all the replies. Did you see mine?

Here it is again:

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support/msg/50d13a38d53e41c6

(or http://tinyurl.com/2csbr3 )

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Sorry about the repetitive posts. Nothing new on the web page was showing up
for about a day. Anyway I've isolated the problem. It wasn't just any
software, it was Dreamweaver and Fireworks, which I use all the time, so I
assumed it was OS. It looks like reinstalling may have solved it.

Thanks for your patience. Great to know you're all out there.

I have seen "Your system is running low on virtual memory"

From "Virtual Memory in Windows XP"
http://www.aumha.org/win5/a/xpvm.htm


Problems with Virtual Memory

It may sometimes happen that the system give "out of memory" messages on
trying to load a program, or give a message about Virtual memory space
being low. Possible causes of this are:

The setting for Maximum Size of the page file is too low, or there is
not enough disk space free to expand it to that size.

The page file has become corrupt, possibly at a bad shutdown. In the
Virtual Memory settings, set to "No page file," then exit System
Properties, shut down the machine, and reboot. Delete PAGEFILE.SYS (on
each drive, if more than just C, set the page file up again and reboot
to bring it into use.

The page file has been put on a different drive without leaving a
minimal amount on C:.

There is trouble with third party software. In particular, if the
message happens at shutdown, suspect a problem with Symantec's Norton
Live update, for which there is a fix posted here. It is also reported
that spurious messages can arise if NAV 2004 is installed. If the
problem happens at boot and the machine has an Intel chipset, the
message may be caused by an early version (before version 2.1) of Intel'
s "Application Accelerator." Uninstall this and then get an up-to-date
version from Intel's site.

Another problem involving Norton Antivirus was recently discovered by
MS-MVP Ron Martell. However, it only applies to computers where the
pagefile has been manually resized to larger than the default setting of
1.5 times RAM -- a practice we discourage. On such machines, NAV 2004
and Norton Antivirus Corporate 9.0 can cause your computer to revert to
the default settings on the next reboot, rather than retain your
manually configured settings. (Though this is probably an improvement on
memory management, it can be maddening if you don't know why it is
happening.) Symantec has published separate repair instructions for
computers with NAV 2004 and NAV Corporate 9.0 installed. [Added by JAE
2/21/06.]

Possibly there is trouble with the drivers for IDE hard disks; in Device
Manager, remove the IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers (main controller) and
reboot for Plug and Play to start over.

With an NTFS file system, the permissions for the page file's drive's
root directory must give "Full Control" to SYSTEM. If not, there is
likely to be a message at boot that the system is "unable to create a
page file."

 

[Daave]

Glad it's resolved and thanks for posting back.

I wonder what was wrong specifically with those apps.

Sorry about the repetitive posts. Nothing new on the web page was
showing up for about a day. Anyway I've isolated the problem. It
wasn't just any software, it was Dreamweaver and Fireworks, which I
use all the time, so I assumed it was OS. It looks like reinstalling
may have solved it.

Thanks for your patience. Great to know you're all out there.

I have seen "Your system is running low on virtual memory"

From "Virtual Memory in Windows XP"
http://www.aumha.org/win5/a/xpvm.htm


Problems with Virtual Memory

It may sometimes happen that the system give "out of memory"
messages on trying to load a program, or give a message about
Virtual memory space being low. Possible causes of this are:

The setting for Maximum Size of the page file is too low, or there is
not enough disk space free to expand it to that size.

The page file has become corrupt, possibly at a bad shutdown. In the
Virtual Memory settings, set to "No page file," then exit System
Properties, shut down the machine, and reboot. Delete PAGEFILE.SYS
(on each drive, if more than just C, set the page file up again
and reboot to bring it into use.

The page file has been put on a different drive without leaving a
minimal amount on C:.

There is trouble with third party software. In particular, if the
message happens at shutdown, suspect a problem with Symantec's Norton
Live update, for which there is a fix posted here. It is also
reported that spurious messages can arise if NAV 2004 is installed.
If the
problem happens at boot and the machine has an Intel chipset, the
message may be caused by an early version (before version 2.1) of
Intel' s "Application Accelerator." Uninstall this and then get an
up-to-date version from Intel's site.

Another problem involving Norton Antivirus was recently discovered by
MS-MVP Ron Martell. However, it only applies to computers where the
pagefile has been manually resized to larger than the default
setting of
1.5 times RAM -- a practice we discourage. On such machines, NAV 2004
and Norton Antivirus Corporate 9.0 can cause your computer to revert
to the default settings on the next reboot, rather than retain your
manually configured settings. (Though this is probably an
improvement on memory management, it can be maddening if you don't
know why it is happening.) Symantec has published separate repair
instructions for computers with NAV 2004 and NAV Corporate 9.0
installed. [Added by JAE 2/21/06.]

Possibly there is trouble with the drivers for IDE hard disks; in
Device Manager, remove the IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers (main
controller) and reboot for Plug and Play to start over.

With an NTFS file system, the permissions for the page file's drive's
root directory must give "Full Control" to SYSTEM. If not, there is
likely to be a message at boot that the system is "unable to create a
page file."