XP Pro -> XP Home

  • Thread starter Thread starter andy
  • Start date Start date
A

andy

Like many we are having permissions problems installing and running
various external packages on XP Pro. As part of the investigation of
what and why it was noted that a colleagues personally owned laptop
running XP Home was not suffering. The department only has CDs and
licenses for XP Pro and will not consider XP Home.

My question: is it possible to cleanly remove the layer of permissions
from XP Pro in order to get file permission behaviour something like XP
Home?
 
Hi,

No, it isn't. I would imagine that your "Home" user is probably running as
admin, so this is why they do not incur any problems. Your computer people
probably know better than to allow that. Plus, they cannot have a "Home"
system join a domain, so they cannot implement group policy on the machine.
They will need to work with the various software vendors to get the programs
working properly, most just require a change in permissions from read to
read & execute.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
 
Nearly all users here run as a user in the admin group and install
software from this account. The few problems I have seen (only been
using Windows for a few days) arise because not all services are run as
the user and see different permissions. A brief google suggests this is
a fairly widespread problem.

The department does not use Windows domains for administration but
there are some exported files which, I presume, use this?. All the
people that opt to use Windows machines adminster them themselves with
a small amount of help from an adminstrator. The departmental services
run under unix and, unfortunately, none of the more computer literate
people here have experience of using Windows. I am currently lumbered
with a task to get selected bits of software to run on students Windows
machines.

Working with the suppliers of the software is not going to be a
solution. The one I have approached says their machines do not exhibit
the problem but it is almost certainly a permissions problem on the
system files. It was. I get the impression that this is something of a
stock answer for XP Pro?

We do not need what XP Pro has to offer over XP Home in terms of
permissions and it is causing problems. The ability to disable it would
be useful for us.
 
andy said:
Like many we are having permissions problems installing and running
various external packages on XP Pro. As part of the investigation of
what and why it was noted that a colleagues personally owned laptop
running XP Home was not suffering. The department only has CDs and
licenses for XP Pro and will not consider XP Home.

My question: is it possible to cleanly remove the layer of permissions
from XP Pro in order to get file permission behaviour something like XP
Home?

No, not really. In point of fact, WinXP Home and WinXP Pro have nearly
the same security capabilities, but WinXP Home settings must be adjusted
in Safe Mode. It's seems likely that the one WinXP Home laptop that's
having no problems is probably running on the FAT32 file system, which
has no security capabilities. It may be that reformatting the WinXP Pro
systems to FAT32 (assuming that security and stability are of no
importance to you; I assume this is not for use in any business-critical
function.) will solve some of the problems you're having with these
poorly written applications. You IT department will know how to
properly configure the laptops so that the legacy applications work.

You may experience some problems if the software was designed for
Win9x/Me, or if it was intended for WinNT/2K/XP, but was improperly
designed. Quite simply, the application doesn't "know" how to handle
individual user profiles with differing security permissions levels, or
the application is designed to make to make changes to "off-limits"
sections of the Windows registry or protected Windows system folders.

For example, saved data are often stored in a sub-folder under the
application's folder within C:\Program Files - a place where no
inexperienced or limited user should ever have write permissions.

It may even be that the software requires "write" access to parts
of the registry or protected systems folders/files that are not normally
accessible to regular users. (This *won't* occur if the application is
properly written.) If this does prove to be the case, however, you're
often left with three options: Either grant the necessary users
appropriate higher access privileges (either as Power Users or local
administrators), explicitly grant normal users elevated privileges to
the affected folders and/or part(s) or the registry, or replace the
application with one that was properly designed specifically for
WinNT/2K/XP.

Some Programs Do Not Work If You Log On from Limited Account
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q307091

Additionally, here are a couple of tips suggested, in a reply to a
different post, by MS-MVP Kent W. England:

"If your game or application works with admin accounts, but not with
limited accounts, you can fix it to allow limited users to access the
program files folder with "change" capability rather than "read" which
is the default.

C:\>cacls "Program Files\appfolder" /e /t /p users:c

where "appfolder" is the folder where the application is installed.

If you wish to undo these changes, then run

C:\>cacls "Program Files\appfolder" /e /t /p users:r

If you still have a problem with running the program or saving
settings on limited accounts, you may need to change permissions on
the registry keys. Run regedit.exe and go to HKLM\Software\vendor\app,
where "vendor\app" is the key that the software vendor used for your
specific program. Change the permissions on this key to allow Users
full control."



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH
 
andy said:
Working with the suppliers of the software is not going to be a
solution. The one I have approached says their machines do not exhibit
the problem but it is almost certainly a permissions problem on the
system files. It was. I get the impression that this is something of a
stock answer for XP Pro?


It's the stock answer used by inept programmers, yes. It's not
normally a problem with applications properly designed to work on a
multi-user OS.

We do not need what XP Pro has to offer over XP Home in terms of
permissions and it is causing problems. The ability to disable it would
be useful for us.


Again, you can set the same permissions in WinXP Home as you can in
WinXP Pro. This isn't really an issue.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH
 
Hi,
Nearly all users here run as a user in the admin group and install
software from this account. The few problems I have seen (only been
using Windows for a few days) arise because not all services are run as
the user and see different permissions. A brief google suggests this is
a fairly widespread problem.

The permissions issue is running in limited accounts, and sometimes as a
"power user", but not in admin accounts. I wrote on this here:
http://rickrogers.org.xpsware.htm

Services can be run as a system service or as a user service, this can be
changed in the services snap-in (start/run services.msc), but it should not
be an issue for an admin account.
The department does not use Windows domains for administration but
there are some exported files which, I presume, use this?.

Only if you are using synchronized offline files. Otherwise Home and Pro are
the same.
All the people that opt to use Windows machines adminster them themselves
with
a small amount of help from an adminstrator. The departmental services
run under unix and, unfortunately, none of the more computer literate
people here have experience of using Windows. I am currently lumbered
with a task to get selected bits of software to run on students Windows
machines.

What type of accounts are used for the students?
Working with the suppliers of the software is not going to be a
solution. The one I have approached says their machines do not exhibit
the problem but it is almost certainly a permissions problem on the
system files. It was. I get the impression that this is something of a
stock answer for XP Pro?

It's not the system file permissions - I hate it when software vendors state
that. It's in how they setup the program folder. In WinXP, a limited user
will only have read permissions on new folders unless that account is used
to create the folder. As a limited user cannot install a program, the folder
gets created and the limited user cannot execute from it or write to it.
This *can* be resolved if the software installer is written correctly, but
most simply do not do this. Instead, the end user gets stuck with searching
google on how to fix what should have been resolved by the program vendor.
We do not need what XP Pro has to offer over XP Home in terms of
permissions and it is causing problems. The ability to disable it would
be useful for us.

XP Home is full of permissions as well, you just cannot access or see them
in normal mode. This does not mean they don't exist. Reboot in safe mode and
logon as administrator, check the properties of any folder and you will see
there is a security tab. A severe disadvantage in a Home system is that this
is the only way the permissions can be manipulated when there is a problem
with a program installation folder.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
 
Back
Top