WYSIWYG text?

Guest · Oct 13, 2004

When I enter text in design view, it takes up approx. 50% more screen space
compared to preview and thus frustrating cell-space etc. Any suggestions as
to how to have a more WYSIWYG type of working with text? (Text size in IE is
set to medium) Suggestions for this newbie appreciated.

Kevin Spencer · Oct 13, 2004

Try looking at the page in different browsers for a real surprise.

A browser INTERPRETS HTML. Different browsers interpret it differently. Of
course, you probably haven't set your screen resolution differently, but
guess what? Different machines have different screen resolutions.

So, you want to have more WYSIWYG? Well, that's a pretty tall order when WYG
depends on what your local screen resolution is, what browser the user is
using, and what size their browser window is sized to. I guess the answer to
your question is, "What You See" is not necessarily what YOU get, but it
certainly is bound to be what SOMEBODY gets.

IOW, learn how HTML works, and learn to work with it.

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
I get paid good money to
solve puzzles for a living

Steve Easton · Oct 13, 2004

Check your design view font settings.

--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer

Murray · Oct 13, 2004

WYG

depends on what your local screen resolution is

Actually, WYG has nothing to do with screen resolution. It's browser
viewport dimensions that is key.

I will see exactly the same WYG on my 1280x1024 screen with a browser
viewport set to 640px width as does someone with an 800x600 screen with a
browser viewport set to 640px width. I will see it all smaller, of course,
but the layout will be identical.

certainly is bound to be what SOMEBODY gets.

That's why I always suggest that people replace their "This site best viewed
in IE5+" with "This site best viewed on MY COMPUTER!".

Kevin Spencer · Oct 13, 2004

Actually, WYG has nothing to do with screen resolution. It's browser

viewport dimensions that is key.

I will see exactly the same WYG on my 1280x1024 screen with a browser
viewport set to 640px width as does someone with an 800x600 screen with a
browser viewport set to 640px width. I will see it all smaller, of course,
but the layout will be identical.

Now, Murray, you're starting to sound like a certain well-known political
candidate:

"I will see exactly the same..."
"I will see it smaller, of course..."

--

;-)

Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
I get paid good money to
solve puzzles for a living

=?Windows-1252?Q?Rob_Giordano_\=28aka:_Crash_Gordo · Oct 13, 2004

Murray · Oct 13, 2004

Kevin:

I believe that you are joshing, but I just want to emphasize that RESOLUTION
really has nothing to do with it (other than limiting the maximum width of
the browser viewport). You know that, right?

--
Murray

Kevin Spencer said:
Actually, WYG has nothing to do with screen resolution. It's browser
viewport dimensions that is key.

I will see exactly the same WYG on my 1280x1024 screen with a browser
viewport set to 640px width as does someone with an 800x600 screen with a
browser viewport set to 640px width. I will see it all smaller, of course,
but the layout will be identical.

Click to expand...

Now, Murray, you're starting to sound like a certain well-known political
candidate:

"I will see exactly the same..."
"I will see it smaller, of course..."

--

;-)

Kevin Spencer
.Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
I get paid good money to
solve puzzles for a living

Kevin Spencer · Oct 13, 2004

Yeah, Murray, I'm joshing. :-)

Sort of. ;-) You made a good point, but there
is a not-insignificant difference between "exactly" and "exactly except." As
another well-known politician once said (sort of) "It depends on what your
definition of 'exactly' is."

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
I get paid good money to
solve puzzles for a living

=?Windows-1252?Q?Rob_Giordano_\=28aka:_Crash_Gordo · Oct 13, 2004

I was thinking almost exactly the same exact thing...but... :-)

| Yeah, Murray, I'm joshing. :-)

Sort of. ;-) You made a good point, but there
| is a not-insignificant difference between "exactly" and "exactly except." As
| another well-known politician once said (sort of) "It depends on what your
| definition of 'exactly' is."
|
| --
| HTH,
| Kevin Spencer
| .Net Developer
| Microsoft MVP
| I get paid good money to
| solve puzzles for a living
|
| | > Kevin:
| >
| > I believe that you are joshing, but I just want to emphasize that
| RESOLUTION
| > really has nothing to do with it (other than limiting the maximum width of
| > the browser viewport). You know that, right?
| >
| > --
| > Murray
| >
| > | > >> Actually, WYG has nothing to do with screen resolution. It's browser
| > >> viewport dimensions that is key.
| > >>
| > >> I will see exactly the same WYG on my 1280x1024 screen with a browser
| > >> viewport set to 640px width as does someone with an 800x600 screen with
| a
| > >> browser viewport set to 640px width. I will see it all smaller, of
| > > course,
| > >> but the layout will be identical.
| > >
| > > Now, Murray, you're starting to sound like a certain well-known
| political
| > > candidate:
| > >
| > > "I will see exactly the same..."
| > > "I will see it smaller, of course..."
| > >
| > > --
| > >
| > >
| > > ;-)
| > >
| > > Kevin Spencer
| > > .Net Developer
| > > Microsoft MVP
| > > I get paid good money to
| > > solve puzzles for a living
| > >
| > > | > >> > WYG
| > >> > depends on what your local screen resolution is
| > >>
| > >> Actually, WYG has nothing to do with screen resolution. It's browser
| > >> viewport dimensions that is key.
| > >>
| > >> I will see exactly the same WYG on my 1280x1024 screen with a browser
| > >> viewport set to 640px width as does someone with an 800x600 screen with
| a
| > >> browser viewport set to 640px width. I will see it all smaller, of
| > > course,
| > >> but the layout will be identical.
| > >>
| > >> > certainly is bound to be what SOMEBODY gets.
| > >>
| > >> That's why I always suggest that people replace their "This site best
| > > viewed
| > >> in IE5+" with "This site best viewed on MY COMPUTER!".
| > >>
| > >> --
| > >> Murray
| > >>
| > >> | > >> > Try looking at the page in different browsers for a real surprise.
| > >> >
| > >> > A browser INTERPRETS HTML. Different browsers interpret it
| differently.
| > > Of
| > >> > course, you probably haven't set your screen resolution differently,
| > >> > but
| > >> > guess what? Different machines have different screen resolutions.
| > >> >
| > >> > So, you want to have more WYSIWYG? Well, that's a pretty tall order
| > >> > when
| > >> > WYG
| > >> > depends on what your local screen resolution is, what browser the
| user
| > > is
| > >> > using, and what size their browser window is sized to. I guess the
| > > answer
| > >> > to
| > >> > your question is, "What You See" is not necessarily what YOU get, but
| > >> > it
| > >> > certainly is bound to be what SOMEBODY gets.
| > >> >
| > >> > IOW, learn how HTML works, and learn to work with it.
| > >> >
| > >> > --
| > >> > HTH,
| > >> > Kevin Spencer
| > >> > .Net Developer
| > >> > Microsoft MVP
| > >> > I get paid good money to
| > >> > solve puzzles for a living
| > >> >
| > >> > | > >> >> When I enter text in design view, it takes up approx. 50% more
| screen
| > >> > space
| > >> >> compared to preview and thus frustrating cell-space etc. Any
| > > suggestions
| > >> > as
| > >> >> to how to have a more WYSIWYG type of working with text? (Text size
| in
| > > IE
| > >> > is
| > >> >> set to medium) Suggestions for this newbie appreciated.
| > >> >> --
| > >> >> Dirk H
| > >> >
| > >> >
| > >>
| > >>
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|

Guest · Oct 14, 2004

Of course, an obscure font, looked at in an outdated browser gives
unpredictable results. However, if you have no suggestions as to how I can
have the result in IE6 (again: text-size set to medium) to look somewhat
alike a Verdana text created in FP 2003 , I cannot but conclude that FP does
not live up to its WYSIWIG expectations. Even "best viewed on my computer"

doesn't seem to work then.
"Learn to work with HTML" HUH? Isn't FP supposed to be a HTML interface? And
yes, I love working with it, except for the problem I raised.
I thought I overlooked something very simple and basic (at the level of
putting the powerplug into the wall socket), but apparently not.

Guest · Oct 14, 2004

tnx, how I do that?

Steve Easton said:
Check your design view font settings.

--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer

Murray · Oct 14, 2004

Is FP promoted as a WYSIWYG authoring system? I don't think it is....

Kevin Spencer · Oct 14, 2004

Hi Dirk,

"Learn to work with HTML" HUH? Isn't FP supposed to be a HTML interface?

And

FrontPage is a set of tools for working with web sites and HTML. Let's say
you went out and bought a complete set of the very best tools for working on
your car. Would that qualify you as a car mechanic? No matter how good the
tools are, one must have an understanding of what they are used for in order
to use them effectively.

Of course, an obscure font, looked at in an outdated browser gives
unpredictable results. However, if you have no suggestions as to how I can
have the result in IE6 (again: text-size set to medium) to look somewhat
alike a Verdana text created in FP 2003 ,

Okay, now I know how YOU would define WYSIWYG. But unfortunately, you are
not the only person who uses FrontPage to develop web sites. It has nothing
to do with an obscure font, or outdated browsers. It has everything to do
with the fact that HTML is interpreted differently in different browsers,
and how it is interpreted is decided by the browser developers, as well as
the fact that different computers have.different display settings.

Almost NOTHING about web sites, HTML, and the WWW in general is simple. Not
for about 10 years now. FrontPage makes it easiER. FrontPage even makes it
simplER. Unless Microsoft owned the Internet and made all the decisions
about how all browsers should work, it would not be possible for Microsoft
to make web development either simple or easy.

I wish I had the answer you want to hear, but it doesn't exist.

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
I get paid good money to
solve puzzles for a living

Guest · Oct 14, 2004

Quotes: "Create and manage websites that look and work exactly the way you
want" (the screentip of the FP icon on my desktop) and "a Web page editor
that displays what the visitor will see - in true WYSIWYG fashion - (..)
FrontPage 2003 has done just that." (FP 2003 Inside Out, p.40)
Maybe because I'm not a lawyer or because English is not my mothertongue,
but that did raise some expectations on my part.....
Dirk

Murray · Oct 14, 2004

LOL - oops.

Well, it shouldn't be promoted that way! 8)

There is no such thing as a WYSIWYG HTML authoring system. Each browser on
each platform will (sadly) interpret your code in a slightly different
way....

Guest · Oct 14, 2004

Hi Kevin,
tnx for reacting again.

Kevin Spencer said:
Hi Dirk,

And

FrontPage is a set of tools for working with web sites and HTML. Let's say
you went out and bought a complete set of the very best tools for working on
your car. Would that qualify you as a car mechanic? No matter how good the
tools are, one must have an understanding of what they are used for in order
to use them effectively.

I do not intend to be a mechanic; I want to be a driver. Do I need to get
driving lessons? Sure. Am I willing to look under the hood and learn how to
change the oil or how to replace a bulb in blinker? Sure. When I put the gear
in D, I expect to go forward. Did I anticipate that I need to know how to
reassemble the gearbox? No.

Okay, now I know how YOU would define WYSIWYG. But unfortunately, you are
not the only person who uses FrontPage to develop web sites. It has nothing
to do with an obscure font, or outdated browsers. It has everything to do
with the fact that HTML is interpreted differently in different browsers,
and how it is interpreted is decided by the browser developers, as well as
the fact that different computers have.different display settings.

I fully understand that, but FP and IE on MY computer, with unchanged
display settings?

Almost NOTHING about web sites, HTML, and the WWW in general is simple. Not
for about 10 years now. FrontPage makes it easiER. FrontPage even makes it
simplER. Unless Microsoft owned the Internet

You got to be kidding, right?
and made all the decisions

about how all browsers should work,

Again, I understand the basic issue, but is it too much to expect two
(recent versions of) Microsoft products to drive on the same side of the road?
it would not be possible for Microsoft

to make web development either simple or easy.

I wish I had the answer you want to hear, but it doesn't exist.

Ok, that's clear. Do you have any suggestions as to Steve's solution to
change the design view settings? Frankly, I have no idea how to do that.
Tnx again for your input,
Dirk

Kevin Spencer · Oct 14, 2004

Hi Dirk,

Thanks for taking the bad news so well!

I do not intend to be a mechanic; I want to be a driver. Do I need to get
driving lessons? Sure. Am I willing to look under the hood and learn how to
change the oil or how to replace a bulb in blinker? Sure. When I put the gear
in D, I expect to go forward. Did I anticipate that I need to know how to
reassemble the gearbox? No.

Let's compare apples to apples here: In the world of computing, a driver is
a user. A mechanic is a developer. IOW, a driver is a person that USES a
car. A mechanic is a person that BUILDS cars. A user is a person that sits
down at their computer and uses it to view web pages, etc. A developer is a
person that creates web sites, applications, etc. A driver doesn't have to
understand how to build a car. A mechanic does. Regardless of the quality of
the tools.

I fully understand that, but FP and IE on MY computer, with unchanged
display settings?

Unchanged from what? Did you install your operating system? If so, you had
to decide what your display settings would be. If not, someone else had to.
A computer is a highly-configurable and multi-purpose machine, sort of like
the Swiss Army Knife of information tools. Again, your computer is set up
according to your (or whoever set it up initially) preferences. It is NOT
standardized.

Again, I understand the basic issue, but is it too much to expect two
(recent versions of) Microsoft products to drive on the same side of the

road?

Again, that might make YOU happy. But for all those europeans, whoo-hoo! In
fact, as FrontPage and IE are developed by different branches of the same
company, with different release times and versions, which one do you think
it should behave like? IE 5? IE 6? IE 7? And again, why? Because YOU want it
to behave that way? Believe it or not, Microsoft spends oodles of money on
"usability" research. They ask thousands of people to use the software and
make suggestions. They study the suggestions and make decisions about how it
should behave. And FrontPage is a particularly hard app for MS to decide
about simply because it's designed to play outside the Microsoft garden, and
get along with all the other kids on the block. Welcome to the World-Wild
Web.

Ok, that's clear. Do you have any suggestions as to Steve's solution to
change the design view settings? Frankly, I have no idea how to do that.

Now, there's your best bet. Unfortunately, I don't mess with my settings, as
I use FrontPage fairly sparingly these days. Hopefully, Steve will be able
to answer that one for you.

Hang in there, Dirk! It all becomes easier as you go.

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
I get paid good money to
solve puzzles for a living

Guest · Oct 14, 2004

Hi Kevin,
tnx again.

Kevin Spencer said:
Hi Dirk,

Thanks for taking the bad news so well!

Let's compare apples to apples here: In the world of computing, a driver is
a user. A mechanic is a developer. IOW, a driver is a person that USES a
car. A mechanic is a person that BUILDS cars. A user is a person that sits
down at their computer and uses it to view web pages, etc. A developer is a
person that creates web sites, applications, etc. A driver doesn't have to
understand how to build a car. A mechanic does. Regardless of the quality of
the tools.

Valid point, but I meant being a FP-driver, not an IE-driver.>

Unchanged from what? Did you install your operating system? If so, you had
to decide what your display settings would be. If not, someone else had to.
A computer is a highly-configurable and multi-purpose machine, sort of like
the Swiss Army Knife of information tools. Again, your computer is set up
according to your (or whoever set it up initially) preferences. It is NOT
standardized.

I did install XP and I see your point, yet wouldn't those preferences be the
same (once set on my computer) for FP and IE?

road?

Again, that might make YOU happy. But for all those europeans

Now there; guess what? I happen to BE one

A Dutchman living in the US
for 2 years now....
, whoo-hoo! In

fact, as FrontPage and IE are developed by different branches of the same
company, with different release times and versions, which one do you think
it should behave like? IE 5? IE 6? IE 7? And again, why? Because YOU want it
to behave that way? Believe it or not, Microsoft spends oodles of money on
"usability" research. They ask thousands of people to use the software and
make suggestions. They study the suggestions and make decisions about how it
should behave. And FrontPage is a particularly hard app for MS to decide
about simply because it's designed to play outside the Microsoft garden, and
get along with all the other kids on the block. Welcome to the World-Wild
Web.

Now, there's your best bet. Unfortunately, I don't mess with my settings, as
I use FrontPage fairly sparingly these days. Hopefully, Steve will be able
to answer that one for you.

Hang in there, Dirk! It all becomes easier as you go.

Tnx for giving me a sparkle of hope in the end...

Steve Easton · Oct 14, 2004

In design view the font settings should be displayed at the bottom of the toolbar on the left hand
side.

--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer

WYSIWYG text?

Guest

Kevin Spencer

Steve Easton

Murray

Kevin Spencer

=?Windows-1252?Q?Rob_Giordano_\=28aka:_Crash_Gordo

Murray

Kevin Spencer

=?Windows-1252?Q?Rob_Giordano_\=28aka:_Crash_Gordo

Guest

Guest

Murray

Kevin Spencer

Guest

Murray

Guest

Kevin Spencer

Guest

Steve Easton