We cannot edit a spreadsheet together on a web site.
Two people can't edit the same chunk of data on different computers at
the same time, regardless of website, wiki or anything else. The last
one to save wipes out the first one to save.
If you download a picture of a spreadsheet you cannot run
the spreadsheet locally, it is a picture, not an xls file.
You can download the spreadsheet, but if you edit it and upload it,
and someone downloaded it, edited it and uploaded it between the time
you downloaded it and the time you uploaded it, you wipe out his
changes. That's how it works conceptually - there's no way around it.
We can upload an xls file, but not edit it together.
Right. And there's nothing you can do about that. The concept of
independent editing without locking is fatally flawed.
The problems with offline editing will not be a problem in an
environment of responsible people who are in contact with
each other through a newsgroup or via email list.
When I'm ready to edit a page I have to notify everyone involved. Then
I have to wait for everyone to acknowledge. (Someone else may have
sent a notification at the same time saying that *he* intends to edit
the page.) Then, if there's any conflict, we have to work out who's
going to edit the page.
That's why record locking was invented.
It is much more satisfying for the offline users if the wiki
can be downloaded and run offline, like a real xls file is much
more satisfying than looking at a picture of a spreadsheet.
That's doable now. We're talking about three things here:
1) running a downloaded copy of the wiki locally. No problem.
2) having the latest version of the pages, while still running a
static copy locally. Conceptually flawed.
3) "Co-operative" editing. Not possible without record locking.
Let's not confuse one with the other.
I am talking about communication on a higher level.
Exchanging more complex systems than what can be transferred
in the form of a picture or a single web page.
No problem. I can download an entire web site - now - and run it
locally. No matter how complex it is. (Unless it's using a database
- that would require some specialized software.)
The offline use should be similar to the online use.
For example if a bird watcher club wants a system for
registering events the members want to have the wiki
in the field on laptops.
They can agree on how to import sections of the wiki
from each other, or update the online version so others
can download the whole wiki for offline use.
Remember that a lot of people in the world do not have
cable internet and aren't continously connected.
Which is part of the problem. You download the wiki and go out in the
field. You add entries to some pages.
At the same time, *I'VE* downloaded the wiki, gone out in the field,
and added some entries.
Do I upload first, and have my upload overwritten by your later
upload? Or do you upload first, and have your upload overwritten by
my later upload?
Or does only 1 person at a time get to use the wiki locally?
If I want to show you how to use a slide rule I can
use 50000 words, or 20 pictures of a slide rule, or
a short movie clip, but the most satisfying way to
do it is to give you a program which is a slide rule
simulation, and a macro which demonstrates how
to solve a problem.
Then you can experiment freely with a working slide rule
and that is more satisfying than reading about somebody
who has used a slide rule.
Nothing to do with simultaneous editing of a file.
To convey such experiences we need more advanced
transferring of data structures inside working dynamic
systems.
A single zip file isn't "advanced" enough? Transferring data is as
advanced as it needs to be. Simultaneous editing of a single file on
two (or more) computers at the same time, with no record locking, and
no data corruption, is conceptually impossible. If it could be done,
record locking would never have been invented.
