WHY I LOVE MY PC

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Guest

I do like the help you get in the included manuals, e.g
my monitor does not work properly, answer have you turned
it on.This is my first pc so it would have been helpfull
to have at least a bit more information included
considering the price i paid. all the guides you can find
in your local library for pcs have been my saviour,to
find one of them included with any pc would help a lot of
people out!

i'm not the only one who thinks this, am i?
 
No you are not but this is a Windows peer to peer support group. If you
wish to make a difference in that regard, you need to let your computer
manufacturer know how you feel.
 
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If I'm not mistaken, the notion of not including operational manuals with
computers came about because the manuals were to complex for the ordinary
Windows user.

Thus, you are the victim of a catch-22. If manuals were included, you'd
probably by stymied by the lingo used to describe the process of operating
the Windows-based computer; and, you are displeased by the exclusion of an
operating manual for your computer.

It's good that you found books in the library to help you. And, you are a
quick study apparently, because getting logged onto the Internet and
utilizing a newsgroup is no small feat.

: I do like the help you get in the included manuals, e.g
: my monitor does not work properly, answer have you turned
: it on.This is my first pc so it would have been helpfull
: to have at least a bit more information included
: considering the price i paid. all the guides you can find
: in your local library for pcs have been my saviour,to
: find one of them included with any pc would help a lot of
: people out!
:
: i'm not the only one who thinks this, am i?
:
 
-----Original Message-----
If I'm not mistaken, the notion of not including operational manuals with
computers came about because the manuals were to complex for the ordinary
Windows user.

Thus, you are the victim of a catch-22. If manuals were included, you'd
probably by stymied by the lingo used to describe the process of operating
the Windows-based computer; and, you are displeased by the exclusion of an
operating manual for your computer.

It's good that you found books in the library to help you. And, you are a
quick study apparently, because getting logged onto the Internet and
utilizing a newsgroup is no small feat.

: I do like the help you get in the included manuals, e.g
: my monitor does not work properly, answer have you turned
: it on.This is my first pc so it would have been helpfull
: to have at least a bit more information included
: considering the price i paid. all the guides you can find
: in your local library for pcs have been my saviour,to
: find one of them included with any pc would help a lot of
: people out!
:
: i'm not the only one who thinks this, am i?
:
Too complex for me!

.
Click to expand...
 
-----Original Message-----
No you are not but this is a Windows peer to peer support group. If you
wish to make a difference in that regard, you need to let your computer
manufacturer know how you feel.

--
Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/


It's easier to find guides on how to SNIFF, than on how to solve any problem u have.

.
Click to expand...
 
Greetings --

Actually, the omission of decent manuals is primarily a
cost-cutting tactic on the part of the hardware and software
manufacturers. Now, almost all of the necessary documentation is made
available in various Help Files, on the installation/driver CD, and/or
via web sites. Saves trees, too.

Bruce Chambers

--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH
 
Bruce Chambers said:
Greetings --

Actually, the omission of decent manuals is primarily a
cost-cutting tactic on the part of the hardware and software
manufacturers. Now, almost all of the necessary documentation is made
available in various Help Files, on the installation/driver CD, and/or
via web sites. Saves trees, too.

Bruce Chambers

--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH
Click to expand...

Damn the trees! I want a 5 foot think operating manual so I've got
something to:

a) Rest my coffee cup on
b) Throw at the PC salesman who sold me the PC because I'm too stupid to
open the manual....

:)


Tell you what... here's a very simple checklist which should tell you if you
will be able to use a PC effectively

1) Can you program your VCR? If not, what makes you think you can use a
computer?
2) Can you set your digital watch? If not, what makes you think you can
use a computer?
3) Can you set your alarm clock? If not, what makes you think you can
use a computer?
4) Have you previously owned an Apple Macintosh? If so, what makes you
think you can use a computer? :) (I'm gonna catch it for that one!!)
5) Do you work for McDonalds? Hmm.. no point in this one, if you do, you
can't afford a computer, let alone know how to use it... :)


Lorne
(And yes, I'm feeling a bit sarcastic today!)
 
Also, in addition to the various help files, what would pass for a printed
manual may often be included on the CD, often though not always in Adobe
format.
 
In answer to your question , No you are not alone. A major problem with
manuals and Books is that assumptions are made with regard to the
user/purchaser. Usually, it is assumed that everybody knows how to --------
and including that would be redundant and unnecessary, etc. etc.
No , the problem is that in order to write a useful manual/ instructional
book, first the author must be a competent teacher. Unless he/she is , then
there is not much point in going any further. The vast majority of books
written on the subject of computers are totally useless , for anyone who is
at all competent with computers, and for anyone who has little knowledge of
them. At this time I am reading a book on Windows xp and find it almost
totally void of the information that I desire. I have two others on order
from the library , but have little hope that they will be any better. In my
humble opinion, what is needed is for someone who is both a good teacher and
highly computer competent , to write a series of books, manuals, whatever,
and let the consumer decide what is needed by him/herself.
How about it MVPs , I know there are some good teachers among you. Michael ?
Sharon F? And others , who are up to the task. I'm sure of this because you
prove it every time you take the time to give a full and complete answer to
a problem . And if the person still cannot grasp the solution, you take the
time to explain further. Truthfully , I learn more reading your answers than
by reading any book on computers that I've ever picked up and read cover to
cover.
Again, I would like to thank all the MVPs for giving of their time and
knowledge. If not for you all I would have an expensive paperweight and
wouldn't be posting this rant. Now , aren't you sorry you have helped me so
much ?
 
Thank you very much for the compliment, Mad Max.

I think the problem with a lot of manuals and books on the subject is they
tend to get too wrapped up in the verbiage and don't give the kind of step
by step instructions most users need and are seeking.

On the other hand, there are users who simply can't function without a
manual. My Uncle is a retired Physical Chemist, he has a PhD and was
considered the leading scientist in his field. When it comes to computers,
he's absolutely paralyzed without a manual.

The problem is finding the happy medium. Many, including myself, find
computers highly intuitive but that is a twin edged sword and one of the
reasons for the problem you have with manuals and books on the subject.
Good manuals or good instructions are written by people who make no
assumptions about the reader and are able to step away from their own
preconceived notions and frame of reference to give the information that is
needed without assuming previous knowledge.

I had a guy beat me up on the boards once for having given him such detailed
step by step instructions as though I perceived him a beginner because he
was an experienced user. As I gently reminded him, I have no way of knowing
the extent of anyone's knowledge, even when they say they are experienced
and most of the time I find the users who don't need to know some step or
steps I've posted in a response simply don't process it while others follow
it exactly, step by step. Also, because of the nature of these boards, I'm
not only responding to the person who asked the question, I'm responding to
anyone else lurking who may never ask a question but who happens to have the
same issue. Hence, just as should be the case, especially with manuals, I
have to write for the masses and assume they need every step.

As to whether or not I'm inclined to write a book on this subject, I've
considered it. However, for all the time I spend on my own computers and
gadgets and the time I spend responding to questions on these boards, this
is still just a hobby. It's a hobby I enjoy immensely but a hobby
nonetheless and there are other areas in my life, professionally, in which
I've spent years of study and have years of experience about which I might
be far more inclined to write.

Thank you again for the compliment, it is greatly appreciated.

And, you never know, if I feel I've gotten a jump on a topic or new angle
that would be worth the read, I might just write that book after all!:-)
 
By the way, Mad Max, I neglected to mention I do write an online column
about computers and technology, it's called "The CyberSpace." If
interested, it can be found at the following site, just scroll to CyberSpace
and click it, you will be taken to a list of all my columns:
http://www.smalladdictions.com/Skateboard/
 
How about it MVPs , I know there are some good teachers among you. Michael ?
Sharon F?
Click to expand...

Actually, I have a site "in the works" that is focused at new computer
users. I had hoped to have it fit for public viewing by now but due to an
unscheduled bout with pneumonia, that's not going to happen. Now targeting
the very end of 2003/very beginning of 2004. When the site is ready, I'll
add a link to it in my signature.

On books: When I purchase a technical book I like to get one that's just a
bit over my head. Each time I read it, a little bit more makes sense.

In general: I try to impart to my students that no one is born knowing
about computers. Reading about them is good. Using them is better. Don't be
discouraged as it's normal for the learning process to be two steps
forward, one backwards. Just remember that the overall progress is a
forward affair. It will get better. It will start to make more sense....
eventually. ;)

F1 is your friend.
 
Again, I would like to thank all the MVPs for giving of their time and
knowledge. If not for you all I would have an expensive paperweight and
wouldn't be posting this rant. Now , aren't you sorry you have helped me so
much ?
Click to expand...

You're welcome and no, I'm not sorry. Rant away! 1) You're using your
computer with more confidence than before. 2) It's good to communicate what
is frustrating in the Windows interface and the whole of computing. (Making
notes for that site I mentioned! ;) )
 
Just to make this thread unbearably long I'll add a couple of points.

About manuals: Can't take help files to the bathroom.

Teaching: To those who are parents, remember teaching firstborn to wash
his/her hands: "Take the soap in your left hand . . . No, this is your
left hand."

Bob


| On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:44:20 -0600, Mad Max wrote:
|
| > Again, I would like to thank all the MVPs for giving of their time
and
| > knowledge. If not for you all I would have an expensive paperweight
and
| > wouldn't be posting this rant. Now , aren't you sorry you have
helped me so
| > much ?
|
| You're welcome and no, I'm not sorry. Rant away! 1) You're using your
| computer with more confidence than before. 2) It's good to communicate
what
| is frustrating in the Windows interface and the whole of computing.
(Making
| notes for that site I mentioned! ;) )
|
| --
| Sharon F
| MS MVP - Windows Shell/User
 
Michael, thank you for your reply.
As of now the site you mentioned has been placed in my favorites folder. I
will go there tomorrow and give it a better look. Your reply was very
interesting and I had no idea you had any profession other than computers.
As of now it is only a hobby for me also, just not on such a lofty level as
with you.
I'm sure if you decide to write , within your profession ,or about computers
,you will do well.
No need to reply,since I'm sure you have many other things to do. Just
wanted you to know your efforts do not go without appreciation. Oh-- and
about that guy who took offense because he felt you were talking down to
him, he probably does not know as much as he thinks and a dose of humility
probably wouldn't hurt him. I know first hand the taste of crow and I get a
fresh taste daily. I'd better go now and answer Sharon F. who also
graciously answered my post. I'll be watching for your replies to posts and
reading the site you mentioned.
 
Sharon F. Thank you for your reply.
I hoped you would have a site geared toward new users and this time I'm glad
I got what I wished for . I'm not alone in wishing you well about your new
site , of that I'm quite sure. Hopefully I don't miss the grand opening of
your site. Possibly numerous mentions of it on each of the MSNGs would be in
order, when it is ready.
Your suggestion to buy books, just a little over my head. That should not be
difficult for me to do. Almost everything is over my head.
No need to reply, since I'm sure you have plenty to keep you busy and one
reply to me is more than enough.
PS. Sorry to hear about your bout with pneumonia. Having had it a couple of
times myself, I can feel your misery.
 
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