Useless Access 2003

[Guest]

I have seen in other posts where Access 2003 displays a box showing "Unknown"

I'm getting the same error, so I thought I'd do some investigation.

The error is caused by a jump by MSACCESS.EXE into DLL entry point that doesn't exist.

The Unknown error seems to be a catch all error message for unhandled exceptions such as this.

This is the first time I've used Access 2003, I tend to avoid Access at all costs, prefer to use SQL Server.

I decided to attach a debugger to Access and catch the original exception, ah ha, "Class not registered" - so there is something missing.

I've tracked down a problem in the VBA routines which so happen to be in a bunch of DLLs that have been recently modified.

I wonder if Microsoft have been naughty and are calling directly into the DLLs rather than using their vector tables...

Looks very silly when you create a new database and you can't open it again.

Not holding out any hope of Microsoft sorting this problem out... thankfully I have more than one computer... I'm removing Access 2003 from this PC, no point in having it if it doesn't work.

BTW:Access was rubbish until Microsoft "bought" FoxPro and Fox Software and got the Rushmore technology.... Anyone for some Sybase - SQL Server ?

 

[M.L. Sco Scofield]

Too bad that you don't have the guts to identify yourself when you decide to
bash a fine product like Access 2003.

I've been using Access 2003 in both production and in all of the training
classes that I've been teaching since Beta 2. I have *never* encountered the
problem you are describing.

I've had Access 2003 running on Win 2000 Pro, Win 2000 Svr, Win XP Pro, and
Win 2003 Svr.

Having used Access 2003 Beta 2, RC, and RTM on 4 different operating systems
without encountering the problem you describe leads me to believe that you
might have some *other* issue going on with your computer. You aren't
current with all of the updates. You've got some third party program
misbehaving. You've got a virus. Or who knows what.

Here's hoping that your uninstall of Access 2003 went well.

Sco

"tired, angry, sucidial and bored" <tired, angry, sucidial and
(e-mail address removed)> wrote in message

I have seen in other posts where Access 2003 displays a box showing "Unknown"

I'm getting the same error, so I thought I'd do some investigation.

The error is caused by a jump by MSACCESS.EXE into DLL entry point that doesn't exist.

The Unknown error seems to be a catch all error message for unhandled exceptions such as this.

This is the first time I've used Access 2003, I tend to avoid Access at

all costs, prefer to use SQL Server.

I decided to attach a debugger to Access and catch the original exception,

ah ha, "Class not registered" - so there is something missing.

I've tracked down a problem in the VBA routines which so happen to be in a

bunch of DLLs that have been recently modified.

I wonder if Microsoft have been naughty and are calling directly into the

DLLs rather than using their vector tables...

Looks very silly when you create a new database and you can't open it again.

Not holding out any hope of Microsoft sorting this problem out...

thankfully I have more than one computer... I'm removing Access 2003 from
this PC, no point in having it if it doesn't work.

BTW:Access was rubbish until Microsoft "bought" FoxPro and Fox Software

and got the Rushmore technology.... Anyone for some Sybase - SQL Server ?

 

[Guest]

Ummm,

How does the fact that Access 2003 works fine on your computer help me, or anyone else on this forum with the same problem ? All that implies is you haven't done something to your installation, perhaps you don't have administrative rights over your machines, perhaps the Windows Updates aren't installed etc...

I can install Office 2003 on a new machine and it works fine until the updates are applied, then it mysteriously stops working, but it's the only part of Office that fails, Visio, Project, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OneNote, Publisher and FrontPage work just fine.

Please don't knock me for saying what a poor product Microsoft Access is, I program enterprise applications that Access cannot be used for, hence the need for SQL Server. Do you wonder why there is an alternative to Jet in the form of MSDE for Access. MSDE is a 10 user / thread constricted version of SQL Server.

Unfortunately, in this case, a database has been provided for me to maintain, I can install a previous version of Office and that works OK.

But being a very well heeled C++ developer, I am able to see where the problem is, I understand the guts of Office and the Windows Template Library, in which, most of Office is written.

Oh, my name is Steven Redferne, just for the record, I opted out of the Office 2003 alpha developer testing after the amount of time Office XP took. But I did do some work with the XML schema definitions.

But I guess you paid to play with the Beta copies, your whole world seems to be built upon Access 2003 so I don't want to upset you too much.

 

[Albert D. Kallal]

This is the first time I've used Access 2003, I tend to avoid Access at
all costs, prefer to use SQL Server.

I don't understand the above? How can you use sql server to create a form?
(you can't, obviously you don't know the difference between a application,
and server product at all).

Further, you can't create reports with sql server either, so once again, how
can you use sql server \ to create reports?

So, you can't create reports with sql server, you can't create forms with
sql server. How are these two products interchangeable?

Further, if you bothered to look, on every copy of the office cd, there is a
free version of the sql server (desktop edition) that is included for use
with ms-access. So, why not use that ?

Perhaps you are incapable of understanding difference between the database
engine (JET), and the sql server database engine? Perhaps you are very new
to computers, and don't know too much about them? It seems you can't
understand the difference between a UI development tool, and a database
engine?). Other wise, you would not make such a silly statement about using
sql server in place ms-access?. How can you even begin to use sql server in
place of ms-access? That is like saying you will use VB in place of sql
server? (huh??? what you talking about?).

Ms-access is not a database, but only a UI tool to build interfaces to your
favorite database engine, that engine can be the stripped down version of
sql server that is included WITH EVERY copy of office, and is designed for
use with ms-access. In fact, the sql enterprise tools work, and mange MSDE
(desktop sql server) engine just fine. And, if you don't want to use a
client to server, then you can use the JET engine. And, if you want, you can
also use sql server, or even Oracle as the database..but I am at big loss to
understand how a tool that creates reports and forms can be substituted with
sql server that cannot create reports, and cannot be used to create forms
and the UI?

Anyway, lets get back to the problem at hand:

wonder if Microsoft have been naughty and are calling directly into the

DLLs rather than using their vector tables...

Gee, have you ever run the debugger on any Microsoft applications (oh..that
right..you are green newbie..and have never done this. Either you are new to
this...or you would not be surprised...which is it? new? or surprised? (if
you are surprised..then you have not done this with many applications!).

However, I fail to see how the above of any use in problem solving (you even
seem to state this your self..so then why do a big crap dump on this
newsgroup?).

The process to hunt down this problem is as follows (again, since you are
new to this):

First, try making a blank database..and see if ms-access operates ok.
(in other words, do all databases have a problem...or just one?). If they
all do, then you install may have been bad (bad cd image copy etc).

Do a compact and repair on the problem database (assuming you get past step
one).
Now, try compiling the code in the application..does it compile (often, a
lot people run their databases with the code in a un-compiled state---this
is bad).

Does the database compile ok?

lets try and be intelligent about this, and work towards a solution. I am
certainly willing to help you if you are willing to approach some problem
solving in an intelligent fashion. (dropping into the debugger is going
yield you nothing here..and is a silly approach to solving this problem).

 

[Guest]

Just wondering if you read my reply to Sco...

OK, I am sorry if I have upset people, I was working well into the wee small hours and did not expect to get this trouble. Having been working with Office 2003 right from when there was only a basic XML engine in Word and Excel to the fully fledged product I have not had a problem this serious i.e. potential loss of work.

If I find MSDE and Access 2003 insufficient for our needs, i.e. more than 5 users, read over 40,000 simultaneous users, that's my problem and I solve it by using SQL Server 2000 Enterprise. We write our own reporting components in .net and gain access to the data with extended stored procedures. The notion of creating forms does not have any meaning like it does in Access, I would create a Windows facade on top of a .net assembly for Win32/framework users and a Web facade for Internet users etc.

I am aware that Microsoft ships a copy of MSDE with every copy of Office and SQL Server and the development tools. Please bear in mind it is a performance limited version of SQL Server, imagine a V8 engine with rev limiter set at 2,500 rpm instead of 9,000 rpm.

Yes, I do understand the difference between the JET technology and the MSDE, unfortunately, I have to use JET (fileas that is an Access 2000 database and needs to be kept in that format.

In my line of work you get very, very used to using the Windows Debugging Services, it is not a fruitless as you think. If you download the Program DeBug (PDB) files for Windows XP (for example) then you can see some of the source code (obviosuly not all or MS would be out of business) of the offending piece of code. When you write applications in unmanaged C++ code you are effectively running as part of the system, therefore being able to profile your code within Windows becomes very important.

I did do a trace through Access to find out what it was trying to do, that is to attach a debugger to the Access process before it blew up. That way I can step though the code until it blows up, then trace back to the exception. The developers that wrote Access 2003 will look at my crash dump that I submitted using Microsoft Online Crashdump Analysis (OCA) and will see a stack dump of the location where the exception occurred. They will then be able to locate the part of the source code that tried to directly access a location within a system DLL rather than looking up the location of the function in the vtable for the DLL.

An analogy to this, could be say, you have a friend who lives at 23 Sunset Blvd phone num 4567890, but he moves, he now lives at 56 Sunrise Terraces, phone num 4567890. So, hey, you can stay in contact with him. But what if he changed his number at his new address, when you ring him you'll get someone else, you'll end up at the wrong address, your friend won't be there. Windows is trying to do the same, in this case it only has the address of the friend, not the phone number so it has no way of checking to see if where it is jumping to is correct, hence the error I am receiving.

The error is within the scripting engine, you may know it as the Windows Scripting Host, when I installed Visual Studio Tools for Microsoft Office 2003, it screwed up my .net installation and Microsoft recommended I reinstall the Windows Scripting Host. To recover from this particular problem I need to remove WSH, .net and Office 2003 and reinstall it, or I could wait for Microsoft to solve the problem with a patch for it.

As a temporary fix I installed Access 2000 and that works fine. Perhaps it is best I use the same version for the file I am accessing anyway, that way I can make architectural changes to the tables and queries.

By the way, I notice you mentioned if my install was corrupted, no, I did a CRC check and all the files are fine. I have, in common with other posters on this group, got such a severe problem that Access 2003 corrupts uncorrupted databases by trying to fix them. Even if you create a blank database, close Access and then open it again, you will get thrown to the "Access has encountered a problem and needs to restart" catch all screen. That database is corrupted when opened on another machine (without that prob) For this particular database 35% of the file was beyond repair!

I used Access from V.1.0/1.1 and then V2.0 when Microsoft absorbed the FoxPro database engine "Rushmore" into Access and made it into a decent database. Microsoft FoxPro is very cool by the way, if you ever get a chance to try it. I gradually stopped using Access when I started to use SQL Server / SyBase back in 94 and started writing client/server systems.

Anyway, sorry about my rant, I'll disappear back to the internal MS forums and try and find some Office coders who might have an inside track on a fix.

Steve

 

[M.L. Sco Scofield]

Inline...

"tired, angry, sucidial and bored"

Ummm,

How does the fact that Access 2003 works fine on your computer help me, or

anyone else on this forum with the same problem ? All that implies is you
haven't done something to your installation, perhaps you don't have
administrative rights over your machines, perhaps the Windows Updates aren't
installed etc...

I can install Office 2003 on a new machine and it works fine until the

updates are applied, then it mysteriously stops working, but it's the only
part of Office that fails, Visio, Project, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OneNote,
Publisher and FrontPage work just fine.
I guess I didn't go into enough detail. The experiences I was relating to
did not refer to just one computer.

I started using Access 2003 Beta to do training on 7 computers in my
classroom and 5 machines in my office to test production applications on.
These machines had different operating systems and *lots* of other software,
Microsoft and non-Microsoft on them.

When Access 2003 went RTM, I move one of my clients with over 60 machines to
it. Their machines also had a variety of Microsoft and non-Microsoft
software installed.

Both my client's and my machines were a mixture of Win 2000 Pro, Win 2000
Svr, Win XP Pro, and Win 2003 Svr. And we keep them up-to-date with all of
the patches.

With 72 machines worth of experience on every mixture of software imaginable
running over more that 8 months on the release version and an additional 3
or 4 months on the beta, when I can say I've never seen the issue you're
talking about, I'm pretty confident that it is *NOT* an Access 2003 problem,
but a specific machine problem.

Like it or not, there is something going on with your machine.

Please don't knock me for saying what a poor product Microsoft Access is,

I'm not knocking you. I'm knocking saying such a stupid thing with a total
lack of knowledge.

If Access was even a fraction of as bad as you said, the market would have
killed Access a long time ago just like it has killed other inferior
products over the past 25 or more years.

Heck, I just took a new machine that won't install Windows 2000 Pro, Windows
2000 Svr, or Window XP Pro. Are these bad operating systems? I don't think
so. I'm guessing I have a problem with the computer. Naw, I'll just put
Linux on it. Linux is so much better than Windows that it will surely
install, even on a bad computer...

Ya know, with 1,000's of computers running Access and your computer that
won't, let me try using some logic. Is it Access or your computer? I'll just
leave the answer to that question to much smarter people than me.

I program enterprise applications that Access cannot be used for, hence the

need for SQL Server. Do you wonder why there is an alternative to Jet in the
form of MSDE for Access. MSDE is a 10 user / thread constricted version of
SQL Server.
I'm happy for you. I program enterprise applications too. Ever hear of
3-tier n-teir, and .NET? Of course there are alternatives. Dah...

Ever hear of the Java vs. .NET wars? At lease they don't say the other
side's stuff is junk. They fight fair by saying "Mine is better than yours.
And here's why..."

Access is a desk-top, file-server database. Compare us to Paradox, dBase,
Fox, or another desk-top, file-server database if you must.

If you want to compare something to SQL Server, compare client-server
databases like Oracle, Ingress, or DB2.

And comparing Access to MSDE is still not comparing apples to apples. You
should be comparing MSDE to Personal Oracle or one of the other crippled
personal client server products.

Unfortunately, in this case, a database has been provided for me to

maintain, I can install a previous version of Office and that works OK.
I feel for you. I've had to maintain products I didn't like either.

But being a very well heeled C++ developer, I am able to see where the

problem is, I understand the guts of Office and the Windows Template
Library, in which, most of Office is written.
Again I'm proud of you. Ever hear of assembler?

Oh, my name is Steven Redferne, just for the record, I opted out of the

Office 2003 alpha developer testing after the amount of time Office XP took.
But I did do some work with the XML schema definitions.
Well Steven, I do respect you for not continuing to hide behind
(e-mail address removed).

But I guess you paid to play with the Beta copies,

Pay betas? I don't think so. I am a member of a rather public special
Microsoft group dealing with the current version of Access and I am also a
member of rather non-public special Microsoft group dealing with the
planning of the next version. I get invited to work with the betas.

your whole world seems to be built upon Access 2003 so I don't want to upset you too much.

I've been proudly using, teaching, and evangelizing Access ever since
version 1.0. You need not worry, I will continue to do so.

Bottom line. Don't go knocking products when your vast experience with the
product consists of using it on one machine.

Again, I'm sorry you're stuck having to maintain an Access project.

Here's hoping you can get back to your "enterprise" development soon.

Sco

:

<snip>

 

[david epsom dot com dot au]

It's not the file's you need to worry about. The idea is to clean out the
registry.

(david)

David,
I installed the Office 2000 Resource Kit and went to Removal Wizard, but

it only shows Files in Temporary Folder for previous releases. How do I use
it to remove this version?