USB again

  • Thread starter Thread starter Richard Steinfeld
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Richard Steinfeld

We've been through diagnostic programs lately that include USB reporting.

What I need is a utility that's USB-specific. All I need to know is
whether a USB2 card is delivering USB2, or has dropped down into USB1.

OT follows: My immediate problem is with a couple of Parts, Peripherals
& Accessories(PPA)brand USB2 cards, model 1066; the controller chip on
the card is a VIA VT6212L. The machines are Dell Optiplex GX110 at
1,000mhz, with Windows XP SP2. The documentation and drivers from both
companies are insane, inadequate, conflicting, and just plain wrong, so
I'd appreciate any good advice as well (pls reply to above munged
address). One card worked properly in USB2 once when used with a
different XP SP2 installation.

Thanks

Richard
 
Richard said:
We've been through diagnostic programs lately that include USB
reporting.
What I need is a utility that's USB-specific. All I need to know is
whether a USB2 card is delivering USB2, or has dropped down into USB1.

OT follows: My immediate problem is with a couple of Parts,
Peripherals & Accessories(PPA)brand USB2 cards, model 1066; the
controller chip on the card is a VIA VT6212L. The machines are Dell
Optiplex GX110 at 1,000mhz, with Windows XP SP2. The documentation
and drivers from both companies are insane, inadequate, conflicting,
and just plain wrong, so I'd appreciate any good advice as well (pls
reply to above munged address). One card worked properly in USB2 once
when used with a different XP SP2 installation.

Thanks

Richard
Click to expand...

Via USB chips are notoriously problematic, and often deliver USB2 instead of
USB 1.1. XP2 made the problem worse. I had some motherboard ports that
were working just fine as USB2 before XP2, but after XP2 they are recognized
only as USB 1.1.

Take that board back if you can and get one based on the NEC chipset. There
is one made by Syba available
at Newegg, dirt cheap.

Get the USB diagnostic utility from Microsoft called UVCView.
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/stream/vidcap/UVCview.mspx

Here's how to tell if a port is running as USB 2 or USB 1.1. Plug in a USB
2 device. Run UVCView. If the device shows up under "VIA Rev 5 or later
USB Universal Host Controller", it's running as 1.1 only. If it shows up
under "Via USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller", that's 2.0.

Also right-click on your USB Devices in Device Manager, click Properties.
Lots of info there too.
 
correction ... I meant to say that Via chips often deliver only 1.1 instead
of 2.0. Sorry.
 
We've been through diagnostic programs lately that include USB reporting.

What I need is a utility that's USB-specific. All I need to know is
whether a USB2 card is delivering USB2, or has dropped down into USB1.
Click to expand...

The utility SIV I mentioned in the thread you probably refer to:

http://siv.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk

shows USB connection speed within the 'Version' column. Run SIV
and click the <USB Bus> button. You'll see a list of all USB
devices and their current connection speed (slow, high, full).
There are only these three bandwidths (1,5 / 12 / 480 MBit/s) at
the moment defined for USB.

It doesn't matter which maximum speed a device supports. The
status displayed should always match the true connection type
negotiated.

You only need benchmark or diagnosis software like these on:

http://www.usb.org/developers/tools

if you do testing of (maybe faulty) hardware and such. That's
usually a task for hardware engineers or driver developers,
though... ;-)

BeAr
 
spoon2001 said:
Via USB chips are notoriously problematic, and often deliver USB2 instead of
USB 1.1. XP2 made the problem worse. I had some motherboard ports that
were working just fine as USB2 before XP2, but after XP2 they are recognized
only as USB 1.1.

Take that board back if you can and get one based on the NEC chipset. There
is one made by Syba available
at Newegg, dirt cheap.

Get the USB diagnostic utility from Microsoft called UVCView.
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/stream/vidcap/UVCview.mspx
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips, Spoon.
Which version of the utility do you recommend for my Service Pack 2
system? There are three different downloads: an X86, an ia64, and an x64
-- this last one is the only one that's got any description -- which
says it's for AMD (I don't have an AMD chip)(What is it about Microsoft
that makes them so resistant to describing things?! Perhaps they have
their technical writing shop (English Division) located in the Kingdom
of FarEastistan -- one of those places where they answer the phone,
"Thank you for calling Microsoft Support; my name is Bubba -- how may I
help you?")

I've already downloaded the X86 version, on the assumption that since I
have an Intel box, and Intel produced a series of chips named x86, this
is what I need.

So, I've run the thing repeatedly. It's amazing, and it works like
magic. Every time I run it with my PNY Flash Drive connected, the
utility unloads the device! I mean, suddenly and totally; it disappears
from the Device Manager list, the "Unplug Hardware" list, and
directories. Hah: some diagnistic tool!

This is a work of magic from Microsoft; it's like in a flash, my flash
drive has been snatched under the Patriot Act, and secretly whisked away
to an undisclosed location without telling its wife anything. As far as
the system is concerned, the flash drive was never there. Uncanny.

Now, perhaps the other version of this utility is the right one, and
I've been using the wrong one (in my Microsoft-induced ignorance).

So, do you think I'd get a better report by running the other version?

Thanks, Spoon.

Richard
 
system? There are three different downloads: an X86, an ia64, and an x64
-- this last one is the only one that's got any description -- which
says it's for AMD (I don't have an AMD chip)(What is it about Microsoft
that makes them so resistant to describing things?!
Click to expand...

It's not an end-user tool. For the target groups (developers, hardware
engineers, service personal) the naming is absolutely sufficient. Your
Optiplex has an Intel PIII CPU. Those you need (and only can use) the
x86 version.
Perhaps they have their technical writing shop (English Division) located
in the Kingdom of FarEastistan -- one of those places where they answer
the phone, "Thank you for calling Microsoft Support; my name is Bubba --
how may I help you?")
Click to expand...

Huh? I totally miss the joke behind that. The above sounds to me like
a very reasonable kind to answer a support call. But, however, I'm far
away from understanding the finer details of the English language...
;-)

[x86 version]
So, I've run the thing repeatedly. It's amazing, and it works like
magic. Every time I run it with my PNY Flash Drive connected, the
utility unloads the device! I mean, suddenly and totally; it disappears
from the Device Manager list, the "Unplug Hardware" list, and
directories. Hah: some diagnistic tool!
Click to expand...

The utility works fine for me with a PNY flash drive on a Win2k
computer. I'd say your problems derive from a faulty USB driver
setup or (even worse) from sincere hardware conflicts/defects.

BeAr
 
The utility works fine for me with a PNY flash drive on a Win2k
computer. I'd say your problems derive from a faulty USB driver
setup or (even worse) from sincere hardware conflicts/defects.
Click to expand...

Just another thought: You may refer to the automatic disabling of
the drive which occurs to the flash drive when the program loads.
That's by design of the software. It bypasses part (most/all) of
the USB stack with its own direct access routines. That's why the
flash drive becomes invisible to the system. But you, nevertheless,
should see the current connection status of the drive within UVCView.

BeAr
 
B. R. 'BeAr' Ederson said:
It's not an end-user tool. For the target groups (developers, hardware
engineers, service personal) the naming is absolutely sufficient. Your
Optiplex has an Intel PIII CPU. Those you need (and only can use) the
x86 version.
Click to expand...

OK. So I've got the right one.
Huh? I totally miss the joke behind that. The above sounds to me like
a very reasonable kind to answer a support call. But, however, I'm far
away from understanding the finer details of the English language...
;-)
Click to expand...

I will try to be brief -- what I wrote may not translate well into
German; it's my American joke. A lot of our technical support phonecalls
are now being answered in India -- we have lost a lot of jobs to the far
east. The people who run the support centers in India know that many
Americans resent this situation, so they try to make themselves sound
folksy. Instead of using their real Indian name ("Hello, my name is
Arun") they now say, "Hello, my name is John," or "Irene:" something
that sounds like an American. Now, as a country of immegrants, a lot of
names will actually fly. However, "Bubba" is my joke -- it's a
semi-derogatory generic nickname for a bumbling man from the deep south.
Bill Clinton's nickname is "Bubba." (Hey, can anyone from the south
please add a really good definition of "Bubba" here: c'mon, help me out
-- let's get clear for this boy in Germany, OK?).


[x86 version]
So, I've run the thing repeatedly. It's amazing, and it works like
magic. Every time I run it with my PNY Flash Drive connected, the
utility unloads the device! I mean, suddenly and totally; it disappears
from the Device Manager list, the "Unplug Hardware" list, and
directories. Hah: some diagnistic tool!
Click to expand...


The utility works fine for me with a PNY flash drive on a Win2k
computer. I'd say your problems derive from a faulty USB driver
setup or (even worse) from sincere hardware conflicts/defects.
Click to expand...

Yes. I've been warned in two places about USB 2 cards with VIA chipsets.
Unfortunately, I've had these for two months and doubt that I can return
them any more.

The latest development is that I'm getting very personal telephone
support from the boards' manufacturer. I understand that all the USB
driver information that's showing in Windows is proper. One difference
between our systems is that you're using Win 2k; I'm using the latest XP
SP2 update. I think that I'm getting proper throughput with both of my
USB2 devices right now. I'll have to run a utility to verify this
because the logic of the flashing light on the PNY flash drive is pretty
non-intuitive.

Thanks.

Richard
 
B. R. 'BeAr' Ederson said:
Just another thought: You may refer to the automatic disabling of
the drive which occurs to the flash drive when the program loads.
Click to expand...

What you've said is interesting, but I don't understand what you mean
(maybe we're having a "translation moment.").
That's by design of the software. It bypasses part (most/all) of
the USB stack with its own direct access routines. That's why the
flash drive becomes invisible to the system. But you, nevertheless,
should see the current connection status of the drive within UVCView.
Click to expand...
You're making sense to me. It just occured to me that there may be a
problem here because the PNY flash drive is a multiple-speed device --
this fact may be causing some compatibility problem. I've seen some
signs that XP Service Pack 2 is sufficiently different than earlier
Windows versions (2000, XP Service Pack 1) as to need updated drivers
for a number of devices.

I think that what I should do for a diagnostic here is to try perhaps
2-3 other diagnostic programs instead of the Microsoft utility that
we've been discussing. Do you agree?

The board manufacturer recommended that I use a program named
"Sisoftware Sandra" to diagnose the throughput speed. I've hesitated to
mention it here because this utility is shareware/trialware. I haven't
tried this yet.

Richard
 
(Hey, can anyone from the south
please add a really good definition of "Bubba" here: c'mon, help me out
-- let's get clear for this boy in Germany, OK?).
Click to expand...

<OT>

This is probably close:

(From http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/13/messages/303.html )
Bubba is a variation of the word "bub" which means brother. Bubba
is used in the American South where it's used as a familiar form
of address. "Hey, bubba, how are you today?". In my experience,
it was often used as a term of affection for an older man.

It's also used by people from the North to refer to Southern men
in a derogatory way, "They were just a bunch of bubbas.", meaning
they were backwards, parochial, poorly educated and probably racist.
When used like this, the meaning is close to "good ole boy."
Click to expand...

</OT>
 
Bill Clinton's nickname is "Bubba." (Hey, can anyone from the south
please add a really good definition of "Bubba" here: c'mon, help me out
-- let's get clear for this boy in Germany, OK?).
Click to expand...

A Bubba's definition of "Bubba" is "Redneck". Translate that into
conversational German. :)

BeAr, "Redneck" comes from the fact that most field hands (farm
workers) in the deep south had red necks - from the sun beating down
on them all day, and the perception (right or wrong) that most of them
were uneducable louts. It's quite derogatory.
 
Al said:
A Bubba's definition of "Bubba" is "Redneck". Translate that into
conversational German. :)

BeAr, "Redneck" comes from the fact that most field hands (farm
workers) in the deep south had red necks - from the sun beating down
on them all day, and the perception (right or wrong) that most of them
were uneducable louts. It's quite derogatory.
Click to expand...

hmm.. . some football players have been nicknamed "Bubba". I DON'T
recall them objecting. . .

and, yes, I've already thought of one easy retort to that - "they were
too dumb to take offense". . . ;)

Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
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Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)
 
Now BeAr, we have discussed the meaning of "bubba," and you are an expert.

Richard
 
Richard Steinfeld said:
I will try to be brief -- what I wrote may not translate well into German;
it's my American joke. A lot of our technical support phonecalls are now
being answered in India -- we have lost a lot of jobs to the far east. The
people who run the support centers in India know that many Americans
resent this situation, so they try to make themselves sound folksy.
Instead of using their real Indian name ("Hello, my name is Arun") they
now say, "Hello, my name is John," or "Irene:" something that sounds like
an American. Now, as a country of immegrants, a lot of
Click to expand...

Doin' Doin' Doin' the Mumbai , Shuffle.

How do the corporations they represent expect you to have any trust in
their products when their public voice is lying before the end of the first
sentence?

All power to the cost effective indian staff, just be more honest, speak
slower and
more clearly, please.
I wouldn't even mind if the onhold music was from Bollywood classics :-)
 
A Bubba's definition of "Bubba" is "Redneck". Translate that into
conversational German. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation (to you, and to Richard and Al, too)! I think
to get the gist, now... ;-)

Btw.: While "Bubba" is not a search term inside the translator programs
I use, "Redneck" is: "wenig gebildeter Weißer mit vielen Vorurteilen"
I hesitate to provide a re-translation of that! ;-)

BeAr
 
What you've said is interesting, but I don't understand what you mean
(maybe we're having a "translation moment.").
Click to expand...

Maybe. Initially, I thought you didn't get any useful information
from the UVCView, at all. Later on I got the notion, that you were
shocked by the disappearance of the flash drive from the WinXP
device list. So you didn't check (or trust) the output from UVCview.
That's why I added: This disappearance is normal behavior of the
program. Some tools provided on usb.org work the same way. They
try to ensure correct information (without influences from system
drivers). So they just use direct access routines which break the
existing connection between the system and the USB device.
I've seen some signs that XP Service Pack 2 is sufficiently different
than earlier Windows versions (2000, XP Service Pack 1) as to need
updated drivers for a number of devices.
Click to expand...

You may encounter problems specific to WinXP SP2. But I don't think
them too likely. You either have a hardware compatibility problem
(or sth. worse). Or your driver setup is flawed. But I'm not sure,
whether you really have a problem, at all. If UVCView showed you
reasonable information about your flash drive, everything may be
just fine.
I think that what I should do for a diagnostic here is to try perhaps
2-3 other diagnostic programs instead of the Microsoft utility that
we've been discussing. Do you agree?
Click to expand...

If in doubt, "try another opinion" usually is a good approach.
The board manufacturer recommended that I use a program named
"Sisoftware Sandra" to diagnose the throughput speed. I've hesitated to
mention it here because this utility is shareware/trialware. I haven't
tried this yet.
Click to expand...

I haven't tried this one for a couple of years. But it used to be
reliable. I still wonder why you don't use the SIV tool I mentioned
within some other posts. You should be fine with the differentiation
into Slow/Full/High transmission speed.

BeAr
 
I haven't tried this one for a couple of years. But it used to be
reliable. I still wonder why you don't use the SIV tool I mentioned
within some other posts. You should be fine with the differentiation
into Slow/Full/High transmission speed.
Click to expand...

Oh. I got it confused with "SIW."
Will do later.

Thanks.

Richard
 
Btw.: While "Bubba" is not a search term inside the translator programs
I use, "Redneck" is: "wenig gebildeter Weißer mit vielen Vorurteilen"
Click to expand...

"wenig gebildeter"? sarcastically, or am I misunderstanding it?
 
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