To Upgrade Or Not ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dave J
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Dave J

Last year we replaced about 30 of our PCs . All have the identical
motherboard running XP Pro SP1 and we are now _considering_ going to SP2.
I visited the manufacturer's web site to see if there were any required
updates [BIOS, drivers etc.] but found nothing. To be certain I sent them an
e-mail asking if there were any known problems [e.g. compatability] with
this board and SP2.

Here's their reply (verbatim) :-

*Please do not use SP2 at this moment. The major issue might be the firewall
established in Windows XP SP2 which provides better security, but just
creates more incompatability against drivers, games, as well as other
software. No matter which motherboard you are using, there will be the
similar issue. Supposed this is a well known issue on earth. Please switch
back to SP1. You might have to format the hard disk and re-install the
Windows XP SP1 from the very beginning since Windows OS does not accept
backward overwriting*

Now this is a _very_ well known, world-wide brand (Taiwan based) and it
seems strange to me that, if there are problems, there is no such warning
on their web site -nor, for that matter , any s/w updates etc.

Any Thoughts?

Dave J
 
Since posting the original I have relayed all this to Microsoft.
Their [telephonic] response does not exactly fill me with confidence.
Quote: * this is no longer a beta version but there are still known
problems* ;
*we have a very strong technical team able to look into any
problems you might encounter* ;
* there are many users that have successfully installed SP2* [
which , to me, implies that there are also many "unsuccess" stories]

Not impressed
Dave J
 
I wouldn't attribute any value to that comment at all for the following
reason.

As a motherboard / system manufacturer, they should be citing specific
issues known about SP2 and their own products, or specific "show stopper"
issues which warrant it. They are not being specific and in fact are being
too generalistic. All too often representatives of manufacturers will post a
response that is not well enough qualified. This seems to fit that
description.

There are issues, particularly with for example the new Pentium Prescott
CPU's, new motherboards, and BIOS that are not yet up to date. If you
purchased last year then this issue will *not* affect you.

So, as Jupiter indicated, a trial installation is to be advised with the
expectation that there may be some issues, mainly firewall related and you
should have the objective of working through those issues. Follow the advice
on the MS web site for installing SP2 and have a good read first.

I suggest you take a look at this article which covers some of the more
common firewall issues:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=842242

So long as your current systems are maintained up to date, I see no cause to
panick - SP2 should be on your To Do list and dealt with when you are ready
not before.

- Tim
 
Presumably they've had plenty of time to test the product out on their
boards - a fact that just makes it even more confusing.
I agree that trying it out on a few machines first it the obvious way to go
but should consumers have to do this?

Dave J


Jupiter Jones said:
"No matter which motherboard..."
Can they be any more general than that?
This seems very fishy to me.
Since many have no problems with SP-2, their statement seems more out
of ignorance or fear than anything else.

Try SP-2 on a few computers:
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/xpsp2.htm
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spackins.htm

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


Dave J said:
Last year we replaced about 30 of our PCs . All have the identical
motherboard running XP Pro SP1 and we are now _considering_ going
to SP2.
I visited the manufacturer's web site to see if there were any
required
updates [BIOS, drivers etc.] but found nothing. To be certain I sent
them an
e-mail asking if there were any known problems [e.g. compatability]
with
this board and SP2.

Here's their reply (verbatim) :-

*Please do not use SP2 at this moment. The major issue might be the
firewall
established in Windows XP SP2 which provides better security, but
just
creates more incompatability against drivers, games, as well as
other
software. No matter which motherboard you are using, there will be
the
similar issue. Supposed this is a well known issue on earth. Please
switch
back to SP1. You might have to format the hard disk and re-install
the
Windows XP SP1 from the very beginning since Windows OS does not
accept
backward overwriting*

Now this is a _very_ well known, world-wide brand (Taiwan based) and
it
seems strange to me that, if there are problems, there is no such
warning
on their web site -nor, for that matter , any s/w updates etc.

Any Thoughts?

Dave J
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Dave said:
Last year we replaced about 30 of our PCs . All have the identical
motherboard running XP Pro SP1 and we are now _considering_ going to
SP2. I visited the manufacturer's web site to see if there were any
required updates [BIOS, drivers etc.] but found nothing. To be
certain I sent them an e-mail asking if there were any known problems
[e.g. compatability] with this board and SP2.

Here's their reply (verbatim) :-

*Please do not use SP2 at this moment. The major issue might be the
firewall established in Windows XP SP2 which provides better
security, but just creates more incompatability against drivers,
games, as well as other software. No matter which motherboard you are
using, there will be the similar issue. Supposed this is a well known
issue on earth. Please switch back to SP1. You might have to format
the hard disk and re-install the Windows XP SP1 from the very
beginning since Windows OS does not accept backward overwriting*

Now this is a _very_ well known, world-wide brand (Taiwan based) and
it seems strange to me that, if there are problems, there is no such
warning on their web site -nor, for that matter , any s/w updates
etc.

Any Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I have seen SP2 distributed to hundreds of different computer types at this
point. Dells, HPs, older Packard Bells, Compaqs, self-assembled, cheapo
"pricewatch" computers, IBMs, Sony, various laptops and tablet PCs - and
have only had issues with "configuration", not software.

Some of the machines in question have as many as 140 different applications
(ranging from home-grown to AutoCAD, Photoshop, Illustrator, 3DStudio MAX,
SPSS, SAS, Matlab, etc..) installed on them. Some are in domains, others in
workgroups, others stand-alone. Many had high-speed Internet and most had
more than a single user.

Other than in these newsgroups, I have yet to see and incompatabilities
between SP2 and any hardware (at least none that did not exist in SP1 and
previous versions of Windows XP as well.) Even here - most problems seem to
center around "ill prepared" updates of the OS (meaning the people did not
do their research before upgrading, were already infested with spyware/other
malware, needed updated hardware drivers, needed other software patches,
etc..) and not issues that should have been avoided with a little
time/effort on the end user's part.

Personally, if you have updated a few of your machines and noticed no ill
effects, then I would continue with your efforts. You say you have 30
machines, set aside 5-10 for "testing. Start with the smaller number and
install SP2 on them and let them go about normal use. This way you can
minimize impact while you correctly configure for your environment. This is
what I have done in all cases with each subsequent major update (like
service packs) and everyone i serviced is still up and going, so I assume
that's working out for me. heh
 
Proceed with caution. Upgrade one system and see what
happens. The statement that the firewall "provides better
security" is correct, only if you are relying solely on
what's in Windows for security, which would be a big
mistake.
Being in charge of IT for a company, you should secure the
network with a firewall, and have email policies in place
that stop attacks. If you have done that, there is no
burning need to go to SP2.
 
To a point, yes the consumer has to do this.
There are a large number of windows XP computers and no two identical.
Microsoft can not possibly test all possible combinations.
Even the computer manufacturers are very limited since they have no
control on what hardware is added/removed and software installed.
All of which affect SP-2 during and after installation.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


Dave J said:
Presumably they've had plenty of time to test the product out on
their
boards - a fact that just makes it even more confusing.
I agree that trying it out on a few machines first it the obvious
way to go
but should consumers have to do this?

Dave J


Jupiter Jones said:
"No matter which motherboard..."
Can they be any more general than that?
This seems very fishy to me.
Since many have no problems with SP-2, their statement seems more
out
of ignorance or fear than anything else.

Try SP-2 on a few computers:
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/xpsp2.htm
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spackins.htm

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


Dave J said:
Last year we replaced about 30 of our PCs . All have the
identical
motherboard running XP Pro SP1 and we are now _considering_
going
to SP2.
I visited the manufacturer's web site to see if there were any
required
updates [BIOS, drivers etc.] but found nothing. To be certain I
sent
them an
e-mail asking if there were any known problems [e.g.
compatability]
with
this board and SP2.

Here's their reply (verbatim) :-

*Please do not use SP2 at this moment. The major issue might be
the
firewall
established in Windows XP SP2 which provides better security, but
just
creates more incompatability against drivers, games, as well as
other
software. No matter which motherboard you are using, there will
be
the
similar issue. Supposed this is a well known issue on earth.
Please
switch
back to SP1. You might have to format the hard disk and
re-install
the
Windows XP SP1 from the very beginning since Windows OS does not
accept
backward overwriting*

Now this is a _very_ well known, world-wide brand (Taiwan based)
and
it
seems strange to me that, if there are problems, there is no
such
warning
on their web site -nor, for that matter , any s/w updates etc.

Any Thoughts?

Dave J
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
It sounds to me like your PC manufacturer has not done any testing of SP2
and are either unware or haven't developed any BIOS updates that may be
required. We provide the code to hardware and software manufacturers to
determine if their code/drivers need to updated/modified.

It is impossible for Microsoft to test SP2 with every possible
hardware/software configuration so that explains the response you received
from the MS rep. We have however, provided extensive documentation and
resources to help guide you and your organization through the update. We
also provide free support for SP2.

The most important thing to remember before you update your systems is to 1)
make a full back up including an Automated System Recovery disk and 2)
before widespread deployment, test SP2 on a computer that most mirrors the
configuration of the PCs in your environment to identify and resolve issues.

Please review the following websites for more info:

Deployment
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/winxpsp2.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/deploy/sp2entpl.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/deploy/sp2entdp.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/deploy/spdeploy.mspx

Support
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;windowsxpsp2
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;en-us;Prodoffer80&sd=GN

--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Please do not send email directly to this alias as it is used for newsgroup
participation only.
Dave J said:
Since posting the original I have relayed all this to Microsoft.
Their [telephonic] response does not exactly fill me with confidence.
Quote: * this is no longer a beta version but there are still known
problems* ;
*we have a very strong technical team able to look into any
problems you might encounter* ;
* there are many users that have successfully installed SP2* [
which , to me, implies that there are also many "unsuccess" stories]

Not impressed
Dave J

Dave J said:
Last year we replaced about 30 of our PCs . All have the identical
motherboard running XP Pro SP1 and we are now _considering_ going to
SP2.
I visited the manufacturer's web site to see if there were any required
updates [BIOS, drivers etc.] but found nothing. To be certain I sent them an
e-mail asking if there were any known problems [e.g. compatability] with
this board and SP2.

Here's their reply (verbatim) :-

*Please do not use SP2 at this moment. The major issue might be the firewall
established in Windows XP SP2 which provides better security, but just
creates more incompatability against drivers, games, as well as other
software. No matter which motherboard you are using, there will be the
similar issue. Supposed this is a well known issue on earth. Please
switch
back to SP1. You might have to format the hard disk and re-install the
Windows XP SP1 from the very beginning since Windows OS does not accept
backward overwriting*

Now this is a _very_ well known, world-wide brand (Taiwan based) and it
seems strange to me that, if there are problems, there is no such
warning
on their web site -nor, for that matter , any s/w updates etc.

Any Thoughts?

Dave J
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Dave J said:
Last year we replaced about 30 of our PCs . All have the identical
motherboard running XP Pro SP1 and we are now _considering_ going to SP2.
I visited the manufacturer's web site to see if there were any required
updates [BIOS, drivers etc.] but found nothing. To be certain I sent them an
e-mail asking if there were any known problems [e.g. compatability] with
this board and SP2.

Here's their reply (verbatim) :-

*Please do not use SP2 at this moment. The major issue might be the firewall
established in Windows XP SP2 which provides better security, but just
creates more incompatability against drivers, games, as well as other
software. No matter which motherboard you are using, there will be the
similar issue. Supposed this is a well known issue on earth. Please switch
back to SP1. You might have to format the hard disk and re-install the
Windows XP SP1 from the very beginning since Windows OS does not accept
backward overwriting*
Click to expand...
[-]
You'll either have to install SP2 sooner or latter of find yourself being unable
to install *any* further XP updates probably sooner than latter.

I'm not having any problems here, though certainly you'd make sure all your
drivers are up to date and look for any applications related updates, too.

In addition if your machines CPUs are AMD and not Intel you may do a bit
of reading about PAW and NX and how to disable those features.

Personally I think it's better to do things earlier than latter as should there
be any problems they aren't going to go away by waiting.

Of course you needn't update all 30 machines and perhaps you can configure
one of it such all required applications and stuff are running to test it against
SP2 for a week or too.

Of course though and at worst their answer, which really isn't one given your
question to them, may mean that "Yes, there're problems but since we can't
provide you with a BIOS upgrade for the time being we just aren't telling you
that".

Cheers,
Juergen
 
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