Small problem with ''extended'' characters

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lee C.
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Lee C.

I believe they're called extended characters anyway. Perhaps they're called something else. Anyway, problem goes like this: Using Arial character map (Charmap.exe), I find I have options to use Hebrew, Arabic, Cyrillic, and, I think, Greek characters. I think this means I loaded an extended character map during a Windows update. That may or may not have been a good idea. There are some characters that I do like to use occasionally though, e.g. ≠, and ≈ are useful in my e-mails sometimes.

However, I find that doing the copy and paste off of the charmap, is 1) slow and cumbersome, 2) adds in extra ''carriage returns''/[Enter] hits that I then have to remove, and 3) causes OE 6x to start typing in bold (I have ''text only'' selected for composition--it appears to not actually send in bold, but it's still disconcerting to have it change character during composition).

I'd really like to figure out some way to enter those in OE without going through all of that, but have so far been unsuccessful at hunting down a solution.

Quaeres then:
1). Is there another way to enter these sorts of characters besides the ''select and copy'' from the charmap.exe program? Perhaps something akin to the old trick of holding down the Alt key and typing in numbers on the keypad to add characters not on the keyboard?
2). Is there any way to add those characters to an OE e-mail that will be less cumbersome and/or at least not add in the extra [Enter] hits thus causing my new, copied character to appear to be in a separate paragraph all its own?
 
"Lee C." <ChestnutLee[No said:
I believe they're called extended characters anyway. Perhaps they're called something else. Anyway, problem goes like this: Using Arial charactermap (Charmap.exe), I find I have options to use Hebrew, Arabic, Cyrillic, and, I think, Greek characters. I think this means I loaded an extended character map during a Windows update. That may or may not have been a good idea. There are some characters that I do like to use occasionally though,e.g. â? , and â?? are
useful in my e-mails sometimes.
However, I find that doing the copy and paste off of the charmap, is 1) slow and cumbersome, 2) adds in extra ''carriage returns''/[Enter] hits thatI then have to remove, and 3) causes OE 6x to start typing in bold (I have''text only'' selected for composition--it appears to not actually send inbold, but it's still disconcerting to have it change character during composition).

I'd really like to figure out some way to enter those in OE without goingthrough all of that, but have so far been unsuccessful at hunting down a solution.

Quaeres then:
1). Is there another way to enter these sorts of characters besides the ''select and copy'' from the charmap.exe program? Perhaps something akinto the old trick of holding down the Alt key and typing in numbers on the keypad to add characters not on the keyboard?

Read the Alt+ codes that CharMap shows for the selected character.
2). Is there any way to add those characters to an OE e-mail that will be less cumbersome and/or at least not add in the extra [Enter] hits thus causing my new, copied character to appear to be in a separate paragraph allits own?

Depending on the characters, changing your keyboard layout to "U.S.
International" may help. But single quote, double quote, tilde, caret, and
such require tapping the space bar before continuing with certain
characters, if you don't intend to combine them. I.e.; double-quote+space+e
if you mean "e instead of ë.
 
N. Miller said:
Read the Alt+ codes that CharMap shows for the selected character.

Well, see that's the problem I've got. CharMap doesn't show any Alt + number sequence codes for the specific characters I mentioned. It does show a ''U'' + number sequence, but I can't figure out any way to enter such a thing from the keyboard. The ''U'' wants to be a character all itself, and doesn't appear to activate anything.
Depending on the characters, changing your keyboard layout to "U.S.
International" may help. But single quote, double quote, tilde, caret, and
such require tapping the space bar before continuing with certain
characters, if you don't intend to combine them. I.e.; double-quote+space+e
if you mean "e instead of ë.

Changed to U.S. International and rebooted. Still can't figure any keyboard entries that will create an Almost Equal to ''≈'' or a Not Equal to ''≠''.

Anybody else got any notions?


I believe they're called extended characters anyway. Perhaps they're called something else. Anyway, problem goes like this: Using Arial character map (Charmap.exe), I find I have options to use Hebrew, Arabic, Cyrillic, and, I think, Greek characters. I think this means I loaded an extended character map during a Windows update. That may or may not have been a good idea. There are some characters that I do like to use occasionally though, e.g. ?, and ?? are
useful in my e-mails sometimes.
However, I find that doing the copy and paste off of the charmap, is 1) slow and cumbersome, 2) adds in extra ''carriage returns''/[Enter] hits that I then have to remove, and 3) causes OE 6x to start typing in bold (I have ''text only'' selected for composition--it appears to not actually send in bold, but it's still disconcerting to have it change character during composition).

I'd really like to figure out some way to enter those in OE without going through all of that, but have so far been unsuccessful at hunting down a solution.

Quaeres then:
1). Is there another way to enter these sorts of characters besides the ''select and copy'' from the charmap.exe program? Perhaps something akin to the old trick of holding down the Alt key and typing in numbers on the keypad to add characters not on the keyboard?

Read the Alt+ codes that CharMap shows for the selected character.
2). Is there any way to add those characters to an OE e-mail that will be less cumbersome and/or at least not add in the extra [Enter] hits thus causing my new, copied character to appear to be in a separate paragraph all its own?

Depending on the characters, changing your keyboard layout to "U.S.
International" may help. But single quote, double quote, tilde, caret, and
such require tapping the space bar before continuing with certain
characters, if you don't intend to combine them. I.e.; double-quote+space+e
if you mean "e instead of .
 
Hello!

Lee C. said:
...
Changed to U.S. International and rebooted. Still can't figure any
keyboard entries that will create an Almost Equal or a Not Equal.

It's because there are not there :)
See here (move mouse to AltGR button to see additional symbols):
http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/keyboards.aspx

Anybody else got any notions?

Just a thought - you can add them once from Charmap to your
Signature. Then you will be able to copy them within the
same Composition windows from your Signature...
 
Well, see that's the problem I've got. CharMap doesn't show any Alt + number sequence codes for the specific characters I mentioned. It does show a ''U'' + number sequence, but I can't figure out any way to enter such a thing from the keyboard. The ''U'' wants to be a character all itself, and doesn't appear to activate anything.

I don't know what to say; my CharMap has a box in the lower left for
"Keystroke", and it either displays the actual key to tap, or it displays
something like Alt+192.
Changed to U.S. International and rebooted. Still can't figure any keyboard entries that will create an Almost Equal to ''â??'' or a Not Equal to''â? ''.

Well, there is also the addition of the target national keyboard. Russian
and Greek are on my list, but you will need a keyboard map. My nephew did
that. I don't remember where he found the keyboard maps, but he printed them
out so he could associate the national key of the new layout with the
physical U.S. keyboard. Hmmm. I wonder if there would be any money in
applique letters to modify the physical keyboard?

I just checked the Windows Update site; they have Arabic Language support
and Hebrew Language support modules to download. I don't know if they work
by modifying the keyboard layout as U.S. International, Greek, and Russian
do, or if they are Input Method Editors, like the one I use for Japanese.
Anybody else got any notions?

Nope.
 
Paul Gorodyansky said:
It's because there are not there :)

Ah, yes, well, that would explain why I've not been able to come up with anything that works there. Guess I can quit looking then.

I'm still amazed though, back in the late 1980s my DOS based WordPerfect 5.0 could be persuaded to add another 26 characters to the keyboard by the simple expediency of typing Ctrl+[letter]. It used Alt+[letter] to add another 26 characters. Alt+ is used in Windows for hotkeys of course, but even now, 15 years later, it appears that Windows has not figured out the utility of being able to add some extra characters to the keyboard. The Ctrl+[letter] combination appears to still be open.
See here (move mouse to AltGR button to see additional symbols):
http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/keyboards.aspx

That appears to not work with the English keyboards.
Just a thought - you can add them once from Charmap to your
Signature. Then you will be able to copy them within the
same Composition windows from your Signature...

There's an idea I might try. Thanks.
 
Lee C. said:
Ah, yes, well, that would explain why I've not been able to come up with anything that works there. Guess I can quit looking then.
...
... it appears that Windows has not figured out the utility of
being able to add some extra characters to the keyboard.

They have done it recently (I was a Beta testes). Here it is -
"The Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator"
http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/tools/msklc.mspx


That appears to not work with the English keyboards.

What do you mean? I meant that looking at US International layout
there you can verify that it does not contain your symbols.
To verify it fully, you should move your mouse to AltGR key
on the picture to see the symbols assigned to AltGR.
There is no such button on my physical keyboard, but it can be
simulated by pressing Ctrl+Alt. That is, if I decide to install
US International layout, I will have access to those symbols by
pressing Ctrl and Alt simultaneously.
 
See here (move mouse to AltGR button to see additional symbols):
Even better! Thanks, Paul.
 
Paul Gorodyansky said:
They have done it recently (I was a Beta testes). Here it is -
"The Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator"
http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/tools/msklc.mspx




What do you mean? I meant that looking at US International layout
there you can verify that it does not contain your symbols.
To verify it fully, you should move your mouse to AltGR key
on the picture to see the symbols assigned to AltGR.
There is no such button on my physical keyboard, but it can be
simulated by pressing Ctrl+Alt. That is, if I decide to install
US International layout, I will have access to those symbols by
pressing Ctrl and Alt simultaneously.

Neat.
Thanks.
 
Actually, I had already run across that and wondered if it might work. Downloaded it, but had not bothered to install it because it appeared to require the .NET download, which I don't know what is, because I never checked it out, because I never had a reason to use it before.
 
Paul Gorodyansky said:
There is no such button on my physical keyboard, but it can be
simulated by pressing Ctrl+Alt.

That's what I meant mostly--I thought the AltGr key was the right Alt key.
That is, if I decide to install US International layout, I will have access to those >symbols by pressing Ctrl and Alt simultaneously.

This I didn't know.
 
Lee C. said:
Actually, I had already run across that and wondered if it might
work. Downloaded it, but had not bothered to install it because it
appeared to require the .NET download, which I don't know what is,
because I never checked it out, because I never had a reason to use it before.

Right. You can use another tool - which I used to change Russian
keyboard layout - KLM. It's very simple, drug-n-drop.
Please see short instruction for KLM on my page (it's about
Russian but the approach is the same):
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PaulGor/mod.htm
 
I've noticed that the ''International'' English keyboard tends to hang on me. Specifically, after typing either an apostrophe or a quote mark [ ' or " ], I have to hit another entry, either a letter or [Enter] to get those characters to appear. There might be others that I will discover later. I've checked it in OE6x and in Notepad, and it does it in both.

Do you happen to know if this is just a glitch in the system or do they all do this? Should I consider it a problem probably specific to my computer? Are there newer, updated drivers for the International English keyboard that I ought to be looking for?

Any help would be appreciated, as I'm in a brand new area here for me.
 
Okay, I've figured it out. The machine is waiting to see if I want to create characters with the [' and "] marks.

I've not figured out what exactly I'm going to do about this, either learn it's practice or attempt to tinker it out of that particular habit, but I've figured out what's going on here.

I've noticed that the ''International'' English keyboard tends to hang on me. Specifically, after typing either an apostrophe or a quote mark [ ' or " ], I have to hit another entry, either a letter or [Enter] to get those characters to appear. There might be others that I will discover later. I've checked it in OE6x and in Notepad, and it does it in both.

Do you happen to know if this is just a glitch in the system or do they all do this? Should I consider it a problem probably specific to my computer? Are there newer, updated drivers for the International English keyboard that I ought to be looking for?

Any help would be appreciated, as I'm in a brand new area here for me.
 
Hi,

May be you don't need International layout at all (it does not contain
the symbols you need anyway).
You may want to do what I did for Russian 'yo'
( http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PaulGor/mod.htm )
that is:
1) keep your original layout that you have been using all along
2) Using KLM, add these 2 symbols you need but not by replacing
some existing useful symbol. Add them as AltGR - say to "1" and "2"
then you will be able to input them by
Ctrl+Alt+1 and Ctrl+Alt+2



--
Regards,
Paul Gorodyansky
"Cyrillic (Russian): instructions for Windows and Internet":
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PaulGor/

ó Õ×ÁÖÅÎÉÅÍ,
ðÁ×ÅÌ çÏÒÏÄÑÎÓËÉÊ
"éÎÓÔÒÕËÃÉÉ: ÒÕÓÓËÉÊ ÐÏÄ Windows É × éÎÔÅÒÎÅÔÅ":
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PaulGor/

"òÕÓÓËÁÑ ÷ÉÒÔÕÁÌØÎÁÑ ëÌÁ×ÉÁÔÕÒÁ":
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PaulGor/onscreen.htm
 
Well, I decided to start with the Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator, and check into the KBL version later (I ghosted my C:\ drive to make that easier and more practical).

Neither one already had the keys I was looking for, but both have enough empty keys to fill that this should be no problem.
 
Okay, I've figured it out. The machine is waiting to see if I want to create characters with the [' and "] marks.

Right. If you want the characters that can be displayed, you have to train
your hands to work a bit different. If you don't need them, just revert to
"United States - 101" layout.
 
Lee C. said:
However, I find that doing the copy and paste off of the charmap, is 1)
slow and cumbersome, 2) adds in extra ''carriage returns''/[Enter] hits
that I then have to remove, and 3) causes OE 6x to start typing in bold
(I have ''text only'' selected for composition--it appears to not
actually send in bold, but it's still disconcerting to have it change
character during composition).

I'm glad to find out that someone else has found the problem with
Character Map pasting in the dreadful extra "carriage returns".
Deleting them screws up one's carefully set-up paragraph formatting.
Anyone found a way to stop it happening? Control of the font size
might be nice too - shouldn't it be the same as the text I paste in
into, not the default?

Martin Murray
 
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