Shadow Copies vs Erasing

  • Thread starter Thread starter Daze N. Knights
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Daze N. Knights

I've wondered if Vista's saving of shadow copies might actually render
the concept of erasing (overwriting) files, directory entries, and
unused space useless. Any thoughts on this?
 
Daze N. Knights said:
I've wondered if Vista's saving of shadow copies might actually render the
concept of erasing (overwriting) files, directory entries, and unused
space useless. Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

This question doesn't make much sense to me.

ss.
 
Bear with me here. Try to understand the concern being expressed, and if
it actually does not make any sense and should therefore be of no
concern to me or anyone else (which may well be the case), please try to
explain why that is so, in terms that I can understand.

According to
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/shadowcopy.mspx

"Shadow Copy helps you recover a file if you accidentally delete it . .
.. Accidental file deletion or modification is a common cause of data
loss. Windows Vista includes a useful innovation to help you protect
your data: Shadow Copy."

If this is true, then presumably, Shadow Copy could help you recover a
file if you have *intentionally* deleted (or erased) it, as well.

SO, if, after changing and re-saving a private document several times
(thus creating shadow copies of it), one should then erase (overwrite)
the file with the intention of making it (for all practical purposes)
unrecoverable, would the "shadow copies" of the erased file still exist,
and are they potentially recoverable?
 
Curiously, the issue of reliably deleting data remains something of an
unsolved problem in computer science - I mean at the theoretical level, let
alone specific product implementations.

I used to think deleting data was pretty straightforward, until I read a
research paper by the distinguished computer scientist, Radia Perlman:
http://research.sun.com/techrep/2005/abstract-140.html
To quote that paper "It is difficult to ensure that data is completely
destroyed".

Dr Perlman works for Sun Microsystems. There might be some equivalent work
at Microsoft research, I don't know. There probably is; it seems like a
general open problem, in present-day comp sci.

RMS ("Rights Management Services") and IRM ("Information Rights Management")
are facilities in the Microsoft environment, to protect data from being
compromised from old document copies. At present, these features are mainly
oriented to the corporate context:
http://technet2.microsoft.com/windowsserver/en/technologies/featured/rms/default.mspx
 
Daze N. Knights said:
I've wondered if Vista's saving of shadow copies might actually render the
concept of erasing (overwriting) files, directory entries, and unused
space useless. Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...


Put another way, is your question "if I erase a file or directory, does it's
shadow copy still exist?"

Beyond that, I'm not sure what you're asking...

Lang
 
Daze N. Knights said:
Yes. Please see my posting a half-hour previous to your own.
Click to expand...


Yah... your "half hour previous" post wasn't up when I responded...

At any rate, I would think not. I would assume that deleting a file or
folder also removes its shadow copy. That's just a total SWAG, because I
don't know for sure... but that would be my guess. Otherwise, how would
shadow copies be cleaned up? I guess there could be a process that runs and
checks to see if the original file/folder exists and if it doesn't, then
remove the shadow copies, but that seems bass-ackward to me... I'd put my
money on the shadow copies being deleted when the original file is deleted.

Lang
 
Thanks for your guess, but I'm just guessing, too, and I was hoping
someone here might have a definitive answer. Of course, shadow copies
being "deleted" when the original file is deleted does not amount to the
same thing as shadow copies being "erased" (overwritten) when the
original is erased . . .
 
Oh, here and there. Actually, I've been poking through posts here pretty
regularly, but have been too busy in my real life to spend much time
writing and I haven't had much in the way of pressing Vista questions of
late. I *did* get curious enough about this erasing of shadow copies
issue, though, to stick it out here for folks to ridicule me about. ;-)
 
You asked a very good question. I understand exactly what you are
saying and have wondered the same thing. I don't like the notion of
shadow copies at all. It's almost like MS was trying to make it easy
for law enforcement to recover your data.
 
In message <[email protected]> Ashton Crusher
You asked a very good question. I understand exactly what you are
saying and have wondered the same thing. I don't like the notion of
shadow copies at all. It's almost like MS was trying to make it easy
for law enforcement to recover your data.
Click to expand...

It was already easy for law enforcement to recover your data -- The
difference is that now, you can do the same.

You can also turn this feature off, or purge all (or all but the most
recent) shadow copies in a number of different ways.
 
I understood your question, just didn't have an
answer..... some dolts make themselves feel better
by tearing down others.

Take care,

Michael

* Daze N. Knights:
 
Daze N. Knights said:
Thanks for your guess, but I'm just guessing, too, and I was hoping
someone here might have a definitive answer. Of course, shadow copies
being "deleted" when the original file is deleted does not amount to the
same thing as shadow copies being "erased" (overwritten) when the original
is erased . . .
Click to expand...

Well... while I read this, I see no definitve answers down-stream. It -is- a
good question to which I, at least, in addition to yourself, of course,
would be interested in knowing the answer.

Lang
 
Oh, no one was *really* ridiculing me or "tearing" me down, but merely
expressing a little befuddlement regarding my odd question. *I'm* not
even sure my question makes much sense; just something I was trying to
wrap my mind around was all, and I was wondering if anyone might have
something sensible-sounding to say about it. :-)
 
The only way that I know how to "turn off" and eliminate shadow copies
is to turn off System Restore on all drives, which also eliminates
restore points. Is there another way?
 
Okay, cool. I see that after reading the thread
a bit more thoroughly.

-Michael

* Daze N. Knights:
 
Daze N. Knights said:
Thanks for your guess, but I'm just guessing, too, and I was hoping
someone here might have a definitive answer. Of course, shadow copies
being "deleted" when the original file is deleted does not amount to the
same thing as shadow copies being "erased" (overwritten) when the original
is erased . . .
Click to expand...


You do know that Shadow Copies only save the 'difference' in the file. They
are not complete files themselves, but only the changes from the previous
version.

ss.
 

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