problems with Win XP SP3 Booting

  • Thread starter Thread starter jim
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J

jim

First, With an ASUS motherboard (P4S533)set to "cable select", is there
any problem with having multiple hard disks with boot.ini's on them?

Second, who disables disks? BIOS or Windows or ... ? And why, when the
disabled disk is re-enabled simply by unplugging the ribbon cable and
re-connecting it?

jim
 
First, With an ASUS motherboard (P4S533)set to "cable select", is there
any problem with having multiple hard disks with boot.ini's on them?

Second, who disables disks? BIOS or Windows or ... ? And why, when the
disabled disk is re-enabled simply by unplugging the ribbon cable and
re-connecting it?
Click to expand...

Alll varieties of BIOS now include a list (in rank order)
of drives from which we may boot. Most can present
a menu on screen showing the list and inviting the user
to select which disk to boot from.
 
Alll varieties of BIOS now include a list (in rank order)
of drives from which we may boot. Most can present
a menu on screen showing the list and inviting the user
to select which disk to boot from.
Click to expand...

True, but disconnecting and reconnecting drives can change the
default boot drive. This can happen in even the most recent BIOS's.

Jim: You need to enter the BIOS and check which drive is set as
the boot drive, whenever you add or remove a drive.

The boot.ini files are another kettle of fish, and are mainly
an issue when you want to multi-boot into different operating
systems. See links below:

http://discussions.virtualdr.com/archive/index.php/t-67006.html
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306559

HTH
 
| First, With an ASUS motherboard (P4S533)set to "cable select", is there
| any problem with having multiple hard disks with boot.ini's on them?
|

The boot.ini will determine which partition is booted.
If you have a single-boot PC with XP on C drive, boot.ini
will usually specify booting disk 0/partition 1. If you then
copied that OS to a second disk and set up some kind
of multi-boot scenario, when you tried to boot drive D
it would boot drive C. You'd need to edit the boot.ini
on drive D to boot disk 1/partition 1.
The details can vary, but the basic idea is that you need
to have each boot.ini ponting to the right partition.
 
jim said:
First, With an ASUS motherboard (P4S533)set to "cable select", is there
any problem with having multiple hard disks with boot.ini's on them?

Second, who disables disks? BIOS or Windows or ... ? And why, when the
disabled disk is re-enabled simply by unplugging the ribbon cable and
re-connecting it?

jim
Click to expand...
=====================

Is there a PROBLEM ?
Or are you asking in advance ?

You can build XP on various drives and if they are in there then the newly
built one will multiboot. If Not then they will all boot individually and
you determine the boot order by BIOS setting.

I have 2 drives that each multiboot in my everyday PC and I can determine
which of THOSE boots first in BIOS. If I boot drive #1 I see ITS boot.ini
choices. When I beta test, I change boot order to use the OTHER drives
boot.ini choices. ( difference is drive lettering)
 
jim said:
First, With an ASUS motherboard (P4S533)set to "cable select", is there
any problem with having multiple hard disks with boot.ini's on them?

Second, who disables disks? BIOS or Windows or ... ? And why, when the
disabled disk is re-enabled simply by unplugging the ribbon cable and
re-connecting it?

jim
Click to expand...

With motherboards and boot order, you have to be prepared for just
about any behavior :-)

The BIOS boot order will change itself, depending on conditions.
(Typically, removing the currently selected disk, will do it.)

I've run into some BIOS, that do an excellent job of remembering
what I actually want. And others are just terrible (many burps
and farts).

The BIOS is not clever enough to analyse the drives and see what
is on them. It may check for the MBR flag (AA55) to see whether
the MBR is valid or not. But in at least one case, an "all-zeros"
hard drive (MBR flag included), where the entire drive was carefully
erased, can actually cause the motherboard to freeze at POST. So
you cannot afford to be too clever, as the BIOS may decide it
just doesn't like your setup at all. (That situation is particularly
problematic, if you don't have an OS installed yet, and can't boot
the install CD because the motherboard freezes while the zeroed
hard drive is connected.)

The popup boot menu, featured on some motherboards, is a good
way to make temporary boot selections, or work around the
inevitable issues with boot order. I use mine quite a bit.
It doesn't affect the permanent boot order selection,
just overrides it for the current boot cycle. On my Asus
motherboard, I press F8 to get to that menu. On an Asrock
motherboard, you press F11. Support for this feature is
patchy, in that some brands of motherboards had popup boot,
before others.

Even my laptop has this feature, but I have to press the "Pause"
key to read the BIOS screen, because I can never remember what
function key it uses. Normally, if the option is available,
something on the first screen of text, will tell you which
key enters the BIOS, and which key triggers the popup boot menu.
Virtually all of your drives will be listed in the menu (whether
OS is on them or not). It's up to you to pick an OS drive and
not a data-only drive.

Paul
 
True, but disconnecting and reconnecting drives can change the
default boot drive. This can happen in even the most recent BIOS's.

Jim: You need to enter the BIOS and check which drive is set as
the boot drive, whenever you add or remove a drive.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response, Rob, the correct HDD is set in the BIOS -- this
is an IDE drive setup and the preferred drive is selected and is on the
"red line" of the ribbon cable. There have been problems, but the
boot.ini's are apparently not the problem.

jim
 
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 11:14:56 -0500, in
| First, With an ASUS motherboard (P4S533)set to "cable select", is there
| any problem with having multiple hard disks with boot.ini's on them?
|

The boot.ini will determine which partition is booted.
If you have a single-boot PC with XP on C drive, boot.ini
will usually specify booting disk 0/partition 1. If you then
copied that OS to a second disk and set up some kind
of multi-boot scenario, when you tried to boot drive D
it would boot drive C. You'd need to edit the boot.ini
on drive D to boot disk 1/partition 1.
The details can vary, but the basic idea is that you need
to have each boot.ini ponting to the right partition.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

jim
 
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 11:38:17 -0500, in
=====================

Is there a PROBLEM ?
Or are you asking in advance ?
Click to expand...

There is a problem. I have 3 drives. Each has a boot.ini.
The problem has been that the preferred C disk has a tendency to become
disabled, so i have installed a fully featured OS on the next drive on the
ribbon which boots when that happens. Both OS's are XP.
I have found that the "fix" for the disabled disk is to unplug it, start
the computer, shut it down, and replug it. So far, that sequence of
actions has had the effect of re-enabling the preferred disk.

jim
 
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 13:23:09 -0500, in
With motherboards and boot order, you have to be prepared for just
about any behavior :-)
LOL!


The BIOS boot order will change itself, depending on conditions.
(Typically, removing the currently selected disk, will do it.)
Click to expand...

I have observed that the BIOS has 'adjusted' itself.
I've run into some BIOS, that do an excellent job of remembering
what I actually want. And others are just terrible (many burps
and farts).

The BIOS is not clever enough to analyse the drives and see what
is on them. It may check for the MBR flag (AA55) to see whether
the MBR is valid or not. But in at least one case, an "all-zeros"
hard drive (MBR flag included), where the entire drive was carefully
erased, can actually cause the motherboard to freeze at POST. So
you cannot afford to be too clever, as the BIOS may decide it
just doesn't like your setup at all. (That situation is particularly
problematic, if you don't have an OS installed yet, and can't boot
the install CD because the motherboard freezes while the zeroed
hard drive is connected.)
Click to expand...

understood. I have experienced a bad secondary slave disk freezing the
whole system and can easily see how the "all-zeros" drive would do the
same.

The popup boot menu, featured on some motherboards, is a good
way to make temporary boot selections, or work around the
inevitable issues with boot order.
Click to expand...

Mine is not quite that advanced, but to me this "cable select" business is
an improvement in that if the originally designated drive is not bootable,
it just walks the ribbon looking for an OS to boot.
I use mine quite a bit.
It doesn't affect the permanent boot order selection,
just overrides it for the current boot cycle. On my Asus
motherboard, I press F8 to get to that menu.
Click to expand...

I don't think that is on my ASUS splash screen(it might be), but I will
keep it in mind for the next time I am in the weeds on it. Of course,
since POST occurs after that splash screen, it is then that i can see by
the status of the 3 (in this case) auto-detected drives which one is going
to boot.
On an Asrock
motherboard, you press F11. Support for this feature is
patchy, in that some brands of motherboards had popup boot,
before others.

Even my laptop has this feature, but I have to press the "Pause"
key to read the BIOS screen, because I can never remember what
function key it uses.
Click to expand...

It's TAB....or maybe it's DEL. :-)
Normally, if the option is available,
something on the first screen of text, will tell you which
key enters the BIOS, and which key triggers the popup boot menu.
Virtually all of your drives will be listed in the menu (whether
OS is on them or not). It's up to you to pick an OS drive and
not a data-only drive.

Paul
Click to expand...


Many thanks, Paul. A very helpful message. I started to post the problem
description that i had sent to a friend, but i thought 'nobody wants to
read all that'.

Next question -- my boot.ini timeouts are defaulted at 30 seconds. Is
there any problem in downing that to, say, 10 seconds?

Should I put any "/" options on the boot.ini execute line?


jim
 
jim said:
Many thanks, Paul. A very helpful message. I started to post the problem
description that i had sent to a friend, but i thought 'nobody wants to
read all that'.

Next question -- my boot.ini timeouts are defaulted at 30 seconds. Is
there any problem in downing that to, say, 10 seconds?

Should I put any "/" options on the boot.ini execute line?


jim
Click to expand...

There are two separate delays.

The BIOS will wait up to 35 seconds, for any and all drives to finish spin up.
Some BIOS allow tuning that value, so you don't wait that whole interval.

The second delay, is the boot menu delay in the OS. You can set the timer
on that, to as short an interval as you'd like. Some Linux OSes have
the boot menu delay around a second or two, and it's pretty hard
to input a key press during that window of opportunity. You don't
want to make it that whort.

Paul
 
There is a problem. I have 3 drives. Each has a boot.ini.
jim
Click to expand...

the big question is:
When XP was installed on each of these drives, what was the configuration of
the system ?

Do they each boot to a multiboot screen ?

Was there only one drive each time ( so XP is on "C"\" each time) ?
Or was XP installed onto a second drive while one drive was installed as C ?
Be specific: what was the config each time XP was installed.
Label the drives in your example as original drive or 1, 2, 3 and drive
lettering / cabling. Also are they IDE or SATA, etc ?
 
On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 11:25:35 -0500, in
the big question is:
When XP was installed on each of these drives, what was the configuration of
the system ?
Click to expand...

Same for two, different for one
Do they each boot to a multiboot screen ?
Click to expand...

none do.
Was there only one drive each time ( so XP is on "C"\" each time) ?
Click to expand...

3 in each case. Xp was installed on "C" each time.
Or was XP installed onto a second drive while one drive was installed as C ?
Click to expand...

At the time, the drive on which each was installed was known as C (HDD0)
Be specific: what was the config each time XP was installed.
Click to expand...

Not quite sure what you mean here.
Label the drives in your example as original drive or 1, 2, 3 and drive
lettering / cabling. Also are they IDE or SATA, etc ?
Click to expand...

HDD0, HDD2, HDD1 <-- the boot.ini's i listed, which may not be what you
mean.

IDE

Thanks,

jim
 
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 21:14:33 -0500, in
There are two separate delays.

The BIOS will wait up to 35 seconds, for any and all drives to finish spin up.
Some BIOS allow tuning that value, so you don't wait that whole interval.

The second delay, is the boot menu delay in the OS. You can set the timer
on that, to as short an interval as you'd like. Some Linux OSes have
the boot menu delay around a second or two, and it's pretty hard
to input a key press during that window of opportunity. You don't
want to make it that short.

Paul
Click to expand...

I understood now about the two delay times -Thanks. I am unaware of any
keypress options between the start of Windows XP initialization and
Desktop ready(I bypass login).
(I thought you had to do things like F5 or F8 before the initialization
process started.)

jim
 
jim said:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 21:14:33 -0500, in


I understood now about the two delay times -Thanks. I am unaware of any
keypress options between the start of Windows XP initialization and
Desktop ready(I bypass login).
(I thought you had to do things like F5 or F8 before the initialization
process started.)

jim
Click to expand...

Your WinXP OS can present a boot menu like this. The delay while
this is on the screen can be adjusted (boot.ini ?). If only one
boot option exists, there is no point in the OS displaying this
menu, and things go faster.

http://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/image56.png

For example, my OS has that boot menu, and it appears to me the
second entry in my boot.ini is perfectly useless. But I'm too lazy
to fix it. Hitting carriage return makes it boot faster.

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
C:\="Previous Operating System on C:"

In the boot menu window in black, I'd see

Microsoft Windows XP Professional
Previous Operating System on C:

and it would sit there for 30 seconds, before booting the default
first entry. Hitting carriage return makes the selection instantly,
so booting can proceed faster.

If you want to look at boot.ini, a quick way is

start : run : msconfig

Paul
 
Char said:
"Carriage return". I like that. :-)
Click to expand...

Hah! It took me by surprise - indeed the key is no longer marked CR
or Return, and says Enter instead. Who'd have thunk! :) Luckily, the
picture has not changed.
 
Patok said:
Hah! It took me by surprise - indeed the key is no longer marked CR or
Return, and says Enter instead. Who'd have thunk! :) Luckily, the
picture has not changed.
Click to expand...

Sorry. My monitor is motorized, and moves left to right while I type.
When I hit carriage return, the monitor is slammed over to one side
again, so I can type the next line :-) :-) /sarcasm (in honor of typewriters)

In some postings, you'll see something like

Hello World <cr>

which means to use the Enter key, or any key which will generate
a 0x0D hex or 13 decimal code :-)

See, code 0x0D is "CR" in the table.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Code_Chart.svg/800px-ASCII_Code_Chart.svg.png

I paid good money for this time machine, and I'll live in the '70s
if I want to.

Paul
 
Sorry. My monitor is motorized, and moves left to right while I type.
When I hit carriage return, the monitor is slammed over to one side
again, so I can type the next line :-) :-) /sarcasm (in honor of typewriters)

In some postings, you'll see something like

Hello World <cr>

which means to use the Enter key, or any key which will generate
a 0x0D hex or 13 decimal code :-)

See, code 0x0D is "CR" in the table.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Code_Chart.svg/800px-ASCII_Code_Chart.svg.png

I paid good money for this time machine, and I'll live in the '70s
if I want to.
Click to expand...

Don't change anything, especially on my behalf. I just thought it was
quaint in that it took me back to the mid-70's when I took a typing
class. I think that's about the last time I interacted with an actual
carriage return, so it was a fun little trip down memory lane.
 
| Hello World <cr>
|
| which means to use the Enter key, or any key which will generate
| a 0x0D hex or 13 decimal code :-)
|
| See, code 0x0D is "CR" in the table.

I'd guess that it was brought over. In other words,
it's not that some older people say carriage return, but
that carriage return was introduced to computing as a
familiar metaphor, just like "folder", "desktop" and "document".
A new line in Windows is CrLf -- carriage return/line feed --
Chr(13) Chr(10). They could have just as easily called it
a newline character from the start.
 
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