networking a win98 SE machine?

[Oivind]

Does windowsxp home talk to win98 SE in a home network?
or

 

[Bob Willard]

Does windowsxp home talk to win98 SE in a home network?
or

Yes. All flavors of Windows from W98 (and even earlier) can be
networked will all other flavors. In my home LAN, I currently have
5 flavors of Windows (W98SE, W2K, XP HE, XP PRO, & XP MC), with
file&printer sharing every which way.

 

[Chuck]

Does windowsxp home talk to win98 SE in a home network?
or

One of the reasons why Windows Networking is so complicated is interoperability.
All versions of Windows are interoperable with all other versions, by design.

All of that said, there are known issues with combining Windows 9x (95, 98, ME)
and Windows NT (NT 2000, XP, probably Vista). And probably some unknown issues
too.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/05/older-operating-systems-windows-98.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/05/older-operating-systems-windows-98.html

 

[Steve Winograd [MVP]]

One of the reasons why Windows Networking is so complicated is interoperability.
All versions of Windows are interoperable with all other versions, by design.

All of that said, there are known issues with combining Windows 9x (95, 98, ME)
and Windows NT (NT 2000, XP, probably Vista). And probably some unknown issues
too.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/05/older-operating-systems-windows-98.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/05/older-operating-systems-windows-98.html

Speaking of Windows Vista:

1. Networking Vista with Windows XP and 2000 works fine.

2. A computer running Windows Vista can access shared folders
belonging to a computer running Windows 9x.

3. Microsoft doesn't support accessing shared folders belonging to a
computer running Windows Vista from a computer running Windows 9x.

I've seen the following problems when trying to access Vista's shared
folders from 9x.

1. Incompatible default network authentication protocols. Windows
95/98/Me uses LM and NTLM authentication. Vista uses NTLMv2
authentication. This causes a prompt for the IPC$ password on
95/98/Me when password protected sharing is enabled on Vista. There
is no valid response to the IPC$ prompt.

2. Incomplete enumeration of shares. 9x only sees some of Vista's
shared folders. The names of some shared folders are truncated,
making them inaccessible.

3. Instability. Accessing Vista's shared folders makes 9x hang or
crash.

To the best of my knowledge, no one has found a solution to problems
#2 and #3. Microsoft is aware of these problems, but there's no
guarantee that they will ever fix them.

To solve problem #1, configure Vista to use LM and NTLM authentication
to allow access from 9x when password protected sharing is enabled.
I'd like to thank my fellow MVP Evan Pearce, who helped me understand
and test this:

1. Click the Start button, type "regedit" in the Start Search box, and
press Enter.

2. Click "Continue" in the User Account Control prompt.

3. Open this registry key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Lsa

4. If they don't already exist, create DWORD values named
LmCompatibilityLevel and NoLmHash.

5. Set LmCompatibilityLevel to 1.

6. Set NoLmHash to 0.

7. Restart the Vista computer.

8. Go to Control Panel > User Accounts, click "Change your password",
enter your current password in the boxes for "Current password", "New
password", and "Confirm new password", and click "Change password".
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

 

[Bob Willard]

Speaking of Windows Vista:

3. Microsoft doesn't support accessing shared folders belonging to a
computer running Windows Vista from a computer running Windows 9x.

Good info, Steve; thanks much.

Yet another reason to bar Vista from my PCs.

 

[Steve Winograd [MVP]]

Good info, Steve; thanks much.

Yet another reason to bar Vista from my PCs.

You're welcome, Bob.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

 

[Chuck]

Speaking of Windows Vista:

1. Networking Vista with Windows XP and 2000 works fine.

So do you have an LLTD Responder for Windows 2000? Or do you just ignore LLTD?

2. A computer running Windows Vista can access shared folders
belonging to a computer running Windows 9x.

I suspected that. I haven't tried my Windows 98 computer, so thanks for
confirming.

3. Microsoft doesn't support accessing shared folders belonging to a
computer running Windows Vista from a computer running Windows 9x.

They don't support Windows9x AFAIK. I would think keeping a Windows 9x computer
running would be like keeping a Model T car running.

I've seen the following problems when trying to access Vista's shared
folders from 9x.

1. Incompatible default network authentication protocols. Windows
95/98/Me uses LM and NTLM authentication. Vista uses NTLMv2
authentication. This causes a prompt for the IPC$ password on
95/98/Me when password protected sharing is enabled on Vista. There
is no valid response to the IPC$ prompt.

2. Incomplete enumeration of shares. 9x only sees some of Vista's
shared folders. The names of some shared folders are truncated,
making them inaccessible.

3. Instability. Accessing Vista's shared folders makes 9x hang or
crash.

To the best of my knowledge, no one has found a solution to problems
#2 and #3. Microsoft is aware of these problems, but there's no
guarantee that they will ever fix them.

To solve problem #1, configure Vista to use LM and NTLM authentication
to allow access from 9x when password protected sharing is enabled.
I'd like to thank my fellow MVP Evan Pearce, who helped me understand
and test this:

1. Click the Start button, type "regedit" in the Start Search box, and
press Enter.

2. Click "Continue" in the User Account Control prompt.

3. Open this registry key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Lsa

4. If they don't already exist, create DWORD values named
LmCompatibilityLevel and NoLmHash.

5. Set LmCompatibilityLevel to 1.

6. Set NoLmHash to 0.

7. Restart the Vista computer.

8. Go to Control Panel > User Accounts, click "Change your password",
enter your current password in the boxes for "Current password", "New
password", and "Confirm new password", and click "Change password".

Thanks for the details.

 

[Steve Winograd [MVP]]

So do you have an LLTD Responder for Windows 2000? Or do you just ignore LLTD?

Microsoft's LLTD Responder can only be installed on Windows XP Service
Pack 2, not on Windows 2000. As a result, Windows 2000 computers
can't appear in Vista's Network Map.

File and Printer Sharing doesn't use LLTD.

I suspected that. I haven't tried my Windows 98 computer, so thanks for
confirming.

You're welcome.

They don't support Windows9x AFAIK.

Right. Microsoft ended support for Windows 98 and Me last July.

I would think keeping a Windows 9x computer running would be like keeping
a Model T car running.

I have a lot of consulting clients who still run Windows 98 and Me.
It's getting hard to find security software, especially firewall
programs, for them.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

 

[Bob Willard]

I have a lot of consulting clients who still run Windows 98 and Me.
It's getting hard to find security software, especially firewall
programs, for them.

ZoneAlarm v6.1 (and probably later v6.x) and the current AVG still
work on W9x.

(One of my kids likes a couple of games that run under W9x but won't
run under XP. And, some tasks work as well under W9x as they would
under XP. And, some older PCs can't be upgraded to XP. And, on
PCs that legally run W9x, upgrading to XP would cost $. So, for those
four reasons, I'm keeping W9x running, although not for general use.)

 

[Chuck]

Microsoft's LLTD Responder can only be installed on Windows XP Service
Pack 2, not on Windows 2000. As a result, Windows 2000 computers
can't appear in Vista's Network Map.

File and Printer Sharing doesn't use LLTD.

FPS doesn't use LLTD in operation. When there's a problem with FPS, the Network
Map is a shiny diagnostic tool. Having to move back to browstat and "net
config", when Windows 2000 is involved, is irritating.

I have a lot of consulting clients who still run Windows 98 and Me.
It's getting hard to find security software, especially firewall
programs, for them.

You hope that the hackers don't support them either, but you can't be sure. So,
you're stuck with a lot of effort for no real cause.

I have only 2 clients with 9x right now. I try to discourage it, for so many
reasons.

 

[Steve Winograd [MVP]]

FPS doesn't use LLTD in operation. When there's a problem with FPS, the Network
Map is a shiny diagnostic tool. Having to move back to browstat and "net
config", when Windows 2000 is involved, is irritating.

In Vista's Network Map, I see a picture of the network topology
(including switches and routers) and the names of computers. Hovering
over a computer shows its IP address and MAC address. Clicking a
computer shows its shared folders, but this option works for some of
my computers and not for others.

Can it do other things to diagnose network problems? I don't think
that it knows anything about NetBT, workgroups, master browsers, etc.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

 

[Chuck]

In Vista's Network Map, I see a picture of the network topology
(including switches and routers) and the names of computers. Hovering
over a computer shows its IP address and MAC address. Clicking a
computer shows its shared folders, but this option works for some of
my computers and not for others.

Can it do other things to diagnose network problems? I don't think
that it knows anything about NetBT, workgroups, master browsers, etc.

No, it's just a connectivity map. But once you understand the browser, half the
"browser" problems turn out to be connectivity issues or malfunctioning personal
firewalls. We're using browstat for a half ass network mapping tool.

You talk about folks stuck with Windows 98. I see people stuck with Windows
2000, and with business cases for staying there. I'm betting that moving from
Windows 2000, to Vista, when they get the Vista bugs worked out, will be easier
to support with a consistent set of utilities. But they don't support 2000. Oh
well.

You're right, now that I think again. LLTD is a separate layer, so it won't
really diagnose IP related problems. The Network Map is just shiny.

There are alternatives though. Some are free even.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/12/knowing-whats-on-your-lan.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/12/knowing-whats-on-your-lan.html