.NET: why?

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Does anyone at Microsoft know the number of classes, namespaces and functions
in .NET? Microsoft must have spent a lot of time in development. Do the same
people know how many employees, departments, and time, it took for them to
get here?

I work for a financial firm that is going to start a new project on .NET or
Java. They are looking for a solid arguement with a few numbers. Java is
currently preferred as it is Unix-based and runs on stabler Solaris.
Microsoft Windows XP server and .NET line of products are to be considered as
competing solutions. If a microsoft employee or even an MVP, can give a few
answers, with brag rights, detailing the .NET solution with numbers, years of
labor, etc, it would be a strong reason to go for Microsoft.

Messages from other posters also appreciated!
 
Devan said:
competing solutions. If a microsoft employee or even an MVP, can give a few
answers, with brag rights, detailing the .NET solution with numbers, years of
labor, etc, it would be a strong reason to go for Microsoft.

Firstly, this group is for questions related to the C# language. You
may find better answers in the General group.

Secondly, did you try Google? I used this search: .Net vs java and
found many hits.

Good Luck
 
I'm curious as to what the number of people and development time have to
do with making this decision. After all, those people aren't the ones that
are doing anything, the finished product is.

As for saying "stabler Solaris", I think that is a debatable point.

Why not give what your project is going to consist of, and we can tell
you the pros and cons of using .NET for that project?

After all, that's what matters in the end. With all due respect, I feel
the metrics that you are trying to base this on should have no effect on
this decision. A framework could have one million methods vs another
framework with .5 million methods, but that doesn't mean it's better. You
have to take a look at what the framework offers for what you are doing, and
make the decision based on that.
 
I work for a financial firm that is going to start a new project on .NET
or
Java. They are looking for a solid arguement with a few numbers. Java is
currently preferred as it is Unix-based and runs on stabler Solaris.

I'd strongly advise you to look for another job immediately.
 
These numbers are important when talking to the taller upper management. You
are an engineer or someone with a computer science degree that has years of
experience, understanding what code is or isnt. Whereas, most of these guys,
hold an undergraduate degree in history and get into Investment Banking
because of their height. Talking about merits or demerits of Java vs .NET at
a very advanced level will either put them to sleep or make the Java team,
which talks at a even basic level as in length or size of code, only more
successful.

These CEOs, CFOs can easily relate to physical labor, size of the Framework
than to nerdier arguements as usability, ulility, ease of use, etc.

So, understanding my position, as you have been in one, or currently are in
one, an MVP, as you, must be quick at helping me out, as you know, quite well
that us, computer programmers have a different mindset than them.

Devan


Nicholas Paldino said:
I'm curious as to what the number of people and development time have to
do with making this decision. After all, those people aren't the ones that
are doing anything, the finished product is.

As for saying "stabler Solaris", I think that is a debatable point.

Why not give what your project is going to consist of, and we can tell
you the pros and cons of using .NET for that project?

After all, that's what matters in the end. With all due respect, I feel
the metrics that you are trying to base this on should have no effect on
this decision. A framework could have one million methods vs another
framework with .5 million methods, but that doesn't mean it's better. You
have to take a look at what the framework offers for what you are doing, and
make the decision based on that.

--
- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]
- (e-mail address removed)

Devan said:
Does anyone at Microsoft know the number of classes, namespaces and
functions
in .NET? Microsoft must have spent a lot of time in development. Do the
same
people know how many employees, departments, and time, it took for them to
get here?

I work for a financial firm that is going to start a new project on .NET
or
Java. They are looking for a solid arguement with a few numbers. Java is
currently preferred as it is Unix-based and runs on stabler Solaris.
Microsoft Windows XP server and .NET line of products are to be considered
as
competing solutions. If a microsoft employee or even an MVP, can give a
few
answers, with brag rights, detailing the .NET solution with numbers, years
of
labor, etc, it would be a strong reason to go for Microsoft.

Messages from other posters also appreciated!
 
Devan said:
Does anyone at Microsoft know the number of classes, namespaces and
functions in .NET? Microsoft must have spent a lot of time in
development. Do the same people know how many employees, departments, and
time, it took for them to get here?

I work for a financial firm that is going to start a new project on .NET
or Java. They are looking for a solid arguement with a few numbers. Java
is currently preferred as it is Unix-based and runs on stabler Solaris.
Microsoft Windows XP server and .NET line of products are to be
considered as competing solutions. If a microsoft employee or even an
MVP, can give a few answers, with brag rights, detailing the .NET
solution with numbers, years of labor, etc, it would be a strong reason
to go for Microsoft.

I have to agree with the comments so far. What does numberof employees,
department, time, number of classes, namespaces, functions, etc have to do
with this decision? The answer is absolutely nothing.

What matters is what does the project require from the framework that it
will be using? What does the project require of the platforms available for
the framework? Basically look at what the project requires, and then
analyze which platform will best meet those requirements.

You see the point? If java is preferred because it is thought that Solaris
is more stable than Windows, then knowing how many hours of development time
have been put into the .NET framework is meaningless trivia. If stability
is a decision driving factor, then you need to look at the stability of the
framework and platform based on the requirements of the project.

Knowing how many classes are in a framework is pointless if the classes that
are there don't support the functionality that the project requires.
 
Hi,


Devan said:
These numbers are important when talking to the taller upper management.
You
are an engineer or someone with a computer science degree that has years
of
experience, understanding what code is or isnt. Whereas, most of these
guys,
hold an undergraduate degree in history and get into Investment Banking
because of their height. Talking about merits or demerits of Java vs .NET
at
a very advanced level will either put them to sleep or make the Java team,
which talks at a even basic level as in length or size of code, only more
successful.

These CEOs, CFOs can easily relate to physical labor, size of the
Framework
than to nerdier arguements as usability, ulility, ease of use, etc.

I don't think you may find these numbers, not for .net nor for java.

What about the reasoning that .net is respalded by one of the biggest
company in the word and Java is sponsored for a company (Sun) which is not
doing so well finantialy , that is something they should understand :)
 
I have to agree with the comments so far. What does numberof employees,
department, time, number of classes, namespaces, functions, etc have to do
with this decision? The answer is absolutely nothing.

Indeed. Puts me in mind of the scene from "Dead Poets' Society" where Robin
Williams' character is making mock of the theory that a poem's greatness can
be judged from its length...
 
Devan said:
Does anyone at Microsoft know the number of classes, namespaces and
functions
in .NET? Microsoft must have spent a lot of time in development. Do the
same
people know how many employees, departments, and time, it took for them to
get here?

I work for a financial firm that is going to start a new project on .NET
or
Java. They are looking for a solid arguement with a few numbers. Java is
currently preferred as it is Unix-based and runs on stabler Solaris.
Microsoft Windows XP server and .NET line of products are to be considered
as
competing solutions. If a microsoft employee or even an MVP, can give a
few
answers, with brag rights, detailing the .NET solution with numbers, years
of
labor, etc, it would be a strong reason to go for Microsoft.

Messages from other posters also appreciated!

What competences does your development team possess? If you have 20 java
programmers then go with java.
 
These CEOs, CFOs can easily relate to physical labor, size of the
Framework
than to nerdier arguements as usability, ulility, ease of use, etc.

So make something up - tell them that the .Net Framework is much better
because of its native support for "overhead underhang", which means that on
average with all other factors being the same that it would take a similar
project approximately 43.6% longer to complete in Java.
 
What matters is what does the project require from the framework that it
will be using? What does the project require of the platforms available
for the framework? Basically look at what the project requires, and then
analyze which platform will best meet those requirements.

Are java and .net/c# not relatively interchangeable? I mean, aren't they
both aimed at the same sort of markets/projects?
If it can be done well in java it can be done well in c# (and vice versa).
 
All the comments I've read so far are good, but I think for investment banker
types (regardless of their height and IQ) the bottom line is the "bottom
line". Which platform is more likely to yeild the desired results with the
maiximum productivity and the least (hours of development time) cost?
Cheers,
Peter
 
CEOs, CFOs and other management types shouldn't be making these kinds
of decisions. They should delegate to the CIO who should probably ask
the people under them what their opinions are, and why. The CIO should
than make the call based on the information provided by his team.

Andy
 
You may wish to express a comparsion in terms of (1) money, (2) power and (3)
ownership.

(1) money would be any productivity metrics from qualified studies of
java/C# and Unix/.NET.

(2) would be expression comparsion metrics in C# vs Java.

(3) is the Total Cost of Ownership metrics Microsoft is always using.

The best presentation priority (for your audience) is probably (3), (1), (2).

I installed Solaris, about 4 years ago, for a friends startup company. I'm
no expert but just to INSTALL it was a pain. We couldn't complete the install
and got another friend who was a Solaris Expert to finish the final part. It
took the expert another 1.75 hours to find the problem and then another 0.5
hours to finish the install.

Needless to say the Solaris expert was making around $180,000 grand a year
on a permenant job.

TOC held new meaning for me after that.

Shawnk

Devan said:
These numbers are important when talking to the taller upper management. You
are an engineer or someone with a computer science degree that has years of
experience, understanding what code is or isnt. Whereas, most of these guys,
hold an undergraduate degree in history and get into Investment Banking
because of their height. Talking about merits or demerits of Java vs .NET at
a very advanced level will either put them to sleep or make the Java team,
which talks at a even basic level as in length or size of code, only more
successful.

These CEOs, CFOs can easily relate to physical labor, size of the Framework
than to nerdier arguements as usability, ulility, ease of use, etc.

So, understanding my position, as you have been in one, or currently are in
one, an MVP, as you, must be quick at helping me out, as you know, quite well
that us, computer programmers have a different mindset than them.

Devan


Nicholas Paldino said:
I'm curious as to what the number of people and development time have to
do with making this decision. After all, those people aren't the ones that
are doing anything, the finished product is.

As for saying "stabler Solaris", I think that is a debatable point.

Why not give what your project is going to consist of, and we can tell
you the pros and cons of using .NET for that project?

After all, that's what matters in the end. With all due respect, I feel
the metrics that you are trying to base this on should have no effect on
this decision. A framework could have one million methods vs another
framework with .5 million methods, but that doesn't mean it's better. You
have to take a look at what the framework offers for what you are doing, and
make the decision based on that.

--
- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]
- (e-mail address removed)

Devan said:
Does anyone at Microsoft know the number of classes, namespaces and
functions
in .NET? Microsoft must have spent a lot of time in development. Do the
same
people know how many employees, departments, and time, it took for them to
get here?

I work for a financial firm that is going to start a new project on .NET
or
Java. They are looking for a solid arguement with a few numbers. Java is
currently preferred as it is Unix-based and runs on stabler Solaris.
Microsoft Windows XP server and .NET line of products are to be considered
as
competing solutions. If a microsoft employee or even an MVP, can give a
few
answers, with brag rights, detailing the .NET solution with numbers, years
of
labor, etc, it would be a strong reason to go for Microsoft.

Messages from other posters also appreciated!
 
It sounds like you should be reading here:
http://www.dilbert.com
or here
http://www.totaljobs.com/


Devan said:
These numbers are important when talking to the taller upper management.
You
are an engineer or someone with a computer science degree that has years
of
experience, understanding what code is or isnt. Whereas, most of these
guys,
hold an undergraduate degree in history and get into Investment Banking
because of their height. Talking about merits or demerits of Java vs .NET
at
a very advanced level will either put them to sleep or make the Java team,
which talks at a even basic level as in length or size of code, only more
successful.

These CEOs, CFOs can easily relate to physical labor, size of the
Framework
than to nerdier arguements as usability, ulility, ease of use, etc.

So, understanding my position, as you have been in one, or currently are
in
one, an MVP, as you, must be quick at helping me out, as you know, quite
well
that us, computer programmers have a different mindset than them.

Devan


Nicholas Paldino said:
I'm curious as to what the number of people and development time have
to
do with making this decision. After all, those people aren't the ones
that
are doing anything, the finished product is.

As for saying "stabler Solaris", I think that is a debatable point.

Why not give what your project is going to consist of, and we can
tell
you the pros and cons of using .NET for that project?

After all, that's what matters in the end. With all due respect, I
feel
the metrics that you are trying to base this on should have no effect on
this decision. A framework could have one million methods vs another
framework with .5 million methods, but that doesn't mean it's better.
You
have to take a look at what the framework offers for what you are doing,
and
make the decision based on that.

--
- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]
- (e-mail address removed)

Devan said:
Does anyone at Microsoft know the number of classes, namespaces and
functions
in .NET? Microsoft must have spent a lot of time in development. Do the
same
people know how many employees, departments, and time, it took for them
to
get here?

I work for a financial firm that is going to start a new project on
.NET
or
Java. They are looking for a solid arguement with a few numbers. Java
is
currently preferred as it is Unix-based and runs on stabler Solaris.
Microsoft Windows XP server and .NET line of products are to be
considered
as
competing solutions. If a microsoft employee or even an MVP, can give a
few
answers, with brag rights, detailing the .NET solution with numbers,
years
of
labor, etc, it would be a strong reason to go for Microsoft.

Messages from other posters also appreciated!
 
Devan said:
Does anyone at Microsoft know the number of classes, namespaces and
functions
in .NET? Microsoft must have spent a lot of time in development. Do the
same
people know how many employees, departments, and time, it took for them to
get here?

I work for a financial firm that is going to start a new project on .NET
or
Java. They are looking for a solid arguement with a few numbers. Java is
currently preferred as it is Unix-based and runs on stabler Solaris.
Microsoft Windows XP server and .NET line of products are to be considered
as
competing solutions. If a microsoft employee or even an MVP, can give a
few
answers, with brag rights, detailing the .NET solution with numbers, years
of
labor, etc, it would be a strong reason to go for Microsoft.

Messages from other posters also appreciated!

Thanks for considering my company, i mean Microsoft for your next project.
..Net has thousands upon thousands of classes, namespaces and functions and
all those other fancy named things so rest assured somewhere in the
framework you will find what you need and if you don't, well, you probably
don't need it. We have thousands of employees, in fact we have thousands of
departments. With the general delays we have in releasing new versions of
our products you can be assured that we put in a lot of time to develop the
products that are currently available. I believe that the cost of labor for
creating .Net makes it fiscally equivalent to the 22nd largest country in
the world. I think I can get you the figures on gallons of coffee consumed
while creating .Net if you want.

Now why did you have to go and mention Java and ruin my day. They called it
Java because they consumed so much coffee to produce that product, hang on,
so did we!!!! Actually we consume in one day the amount of coffee and pizzas
that Sun does in a month so any fool can see that we have a 30 times
advantage right there. That's what I call a solid argument for using .Net.
Regards,

Bill G.
 

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