I think im being conned!!!

[Guest]

I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs with 160
gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the hang o it. But when
I checked the hard drive capacity in properties it registered 140 Gb. So as
youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer Shop" and complained. The man told my
dad that xp took up 15 gig in "hidden hard drive space". But that wouldnt
affect the capacity of the hard drive stats on the properties tab. What do
yous think. I need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the geniuses
apparently lol)

 

[Bob Day]

I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs with 160
gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the hang o it. But when
I checked the hard drive capacity in properties it registered 140 Gb. So as
youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer Shop" and complained. The man told my
dad that xp took up 15 gig in "hidden hard drive space". But that wouldnt
affect the capacity of the hard drive stats on the properties tab. What do
yous think. I need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the geniuses
apparently lol)

A GB according to hard drive manufacturers is 1,000,000,000 bytes.
In most of the rest of the computing world, a GB is 2**30, or
1,073,741,824 bytes. That said, if you look at the "Capacity:"
in the "Local Disk ( ) Properties" dialog box for your hard drive, it
should read a little more than 160,000,000,000 bytes, which is
equivalent to about 149 (manufacturers') GB. If the numbers it
shows for your hard drive are significantly less than those, you've
been had.

-- Bob Day
http://bobday.vze.com

 

[vern]

What they told you is absolutely wrong, hidden files do not reduce the drive
capacity, however this doesn't necessarily mean that they tried to rip you
off.
Drive manufacturers measure their new drives as 1 kilobyte= 1000 bytes
file systems consider a kilobyte = 1024 bytes
This will throw the total capacity off a little, but not 20 gigabytes.
They may not have partitioned the whole drive or put a hidden partition on
the disk. to find out got --control panel--administrative tolls--computer
manager--disk management and look at the physical drives. This will tell
you what the total capacity is.

Vernon Davenport
http://www.vernscomputerservices.com

 

[Bob Day]

A GB according to hard drive manufacturers is 1,000,000,000 bytes.
In most of the rest of the computing world, a GB is 2**30, or
1,073,741,824 bytes. That said, if you look at the "Capacity:"
in the "Local Disk ( ) Properties" dialog box for your hard drive, it
should read a little more than 160,000,000,000 bytes, which is
equivalent to about 149 (manufacturers') GB. If the numbers it
shows for your hard drive are significantly less than those, you've
been had.

-- Bob Day
http://bobday.vze.com

Correction: that should be 149 ("rest of computer industry") GB.

-- Bob Day

 

[Shenan Stanley]

I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs
with 160 gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the
hang o it. But when I checked the hard drive capacity in properties
it registered 140 Gb. So as youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer
Shop" and complained. The man told my dad that xp took up 15 gig in
"hidden hard drive space". But that wouldnt affect the capacity of
the hard drive stats on the properties tab. What do yous think. I
need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the geniuses
apparently lol)

Here are the REALISTIC numbers:

Advertised --- Actual Capacity
10GB --- 9.31 GB
20GB --- 18.63 GB
30GB --- 27.94 GB
40GB --- 37.25 GB
60GB --- 55.88 GB
80GB --- 74.51 GB
100GB --- 93.13 GB
120GB --- 111.76 GB
160GB --- 149.01 GB
180GB --- 167.64 GB
200GB --- 186.26 GB
250GB --- 232.83 GB

I think they tried to explain in simplistic terms about overhead and
advertised vs. actual capacity due to different "math" - which is what Bob
Day told you with this statement:

"A GB according to hard drive manufacturers is 1,000,000,000 bytes.
In most of the rest of the computing world, a GB is 2**30, or
1,073,741,824 bytes."

It is also possible they have a 8 to 10GB partition (although that would be
large) set aside for system recoveryt if they installed it. Did they give
you recovery media? If not - the way of restoring the system may be built
into the system in that way. (Not the best way - in my opinion.. Put the
only restoration capability on one of the few critical moving parts on a
computer system..)

 

[Ron Reaugh]

Nothing is missing. It just a 'units' and system overhead issue.

 

[Ron Reaugh]

A GB according to hard drive manufacturers is 1,000,000,000 bytes.

And everyone ELSE in science and engineering since before 1900.

In most of the rest of the computing world, a GB is 2**30, or
1,073,741,824 bytes.

Nope, only in the area of the computing world that relates to binary
addressable entities is that so. In all other areas of computing a
G=1e9,M=1e6 & K=1e3. The bandwidth of the classic PCI bus is
133,333,333.33(classic) MB/sec. and that's true in all other rates and
component specs in computing EXCEPT the size of RAM chips. On the spec
sheet for RAM chips all rates are classic. The IEEE has it right when they
say the correct usage is 1024=Ki, 1024*1024=Mi & 1024*1024*1024=Gi. The
proper definition of kilo(K), mega(M) and giga(G) was well established long
BEFORE computing even existed.

That said, if you look at the "Capacity:"
in the "Local Disk ( ) Properties" dialog box for your hard drive, it
should read a little more than 160,000,000,000 bytes, which is
equivalent to about 149 (manufacturers') GB. If the numbers it
shows for your hard drive are significantly less than those, you've
been had.

Except that they don't make HD of that size.

 

[Bob Day]

And everyone ELSE in science and engineering since before 1900.


Nope, only in the area of the computing world that relates to binary
addressable entities is that so. In all other areas of computing a
G=1e9,M=1e6 & K=1e3.

Nope yourself. I was specifically referring to, and mentioned
only, GB or gigabytes, where I believe what I wrote is true.

The bandwidth of the classic PCI bus is
133,333,333.33(classic) MB/sec.

That would be 133.33333333 MHz, I believe. The bandwidth at
that rate can be a whole lotta different things.

-- Bob Day

 

[Ron Reaugh]

Nope yourself. I was specifically referring to, and mentioned
only, GB or gigabytes, where I believe what I wrote is true.

NOPE, all rates in computers are in classic fashion 10MB/sec. means
10,000,000 bytes per second. 10MB/sec. meaning 10,000,000 bytes per second
and is the correct usage of M. And 1GB/sec. means 1,000,000,000 bytes per
sec. and is the correct usage of G.

Popular but incorrect usage is to say that one's compter has 256MB memory.
The correct but little used but IEEE way is to say that your PC has 256MiB
RAM.

The HD mfg's got it right by specifying storage size the way they do. Some
app and OS writers got it WRONG and early/sloppy computer geeks should be
ashamed.

That would be 133.33333333 MHz, I believe.

Nope, the classic PCI bus is 4 bytes wide and clocks at 33.33 MHz. That
gives a peak busrt rate of .1333333 GB/sec or 133,333,333.33 bytes per
second or 133.33 MB/sec.

The computer industry because of early sloppyness has made a mess of things.

The only folks who use the 1024 meaning of K are programmers and it has no
use for ordinary computer users. I don't understand why we all can't just
decide to drop the early computereeze atrocity.

K kilo means 1000 and always has and always will. My .1% 1K resistor had
1000 ohms in 1960 and it still does today. It didn't suddenly decide to
have 1024 ohms.

 

[Bob Day]

NOPE, all rates in computers are in classic fashion 10MB/sec. means
10,000,000 bytes per second. 10MB/sec. meaning 10,000,000 bytes per second
and is the correct usage of M. And 1GB/sec. means 1,000,000,000 bytes per
sec. and is the correct usage of G.

Nope once again. You are confusing rates with bytes. When
the term GB (gigabytes) stands alone, in the computer world
it generally means 2^30 (except for hardware retailers). Rates
are another matter. It's a confusing world. Reality is that way.

Popular but incorrect usage is to say that one's compter has 256MB memory.

Nope, it's popular and correct. If you multiply 256 by 1,000,000,
you'll get the wrong answer for the number of bytes of memory
you have.

The correct but little used but IEEE way is to say that your PC has 256MiB
RAM.

That would just add to the confusion.

The HD mfg's got it right by specifying storage size the way they do. Some
app and OS writers got it WRONG and early/sloppy computer geeks should be
ashamed.


Nope, the classic PCI bus is 4 bytes wide and clocks at 33.33 MHz. That
gives a peak busrt rate of .1333333 GB/sec or 133,333,333.33 bytes per
second or 133.33 MB/sec.

Note that you said "133,333,333.33(classic) MB/sec" previously
(see 10 lines above). Also, 'classic' is a slippery word, and you
didn't define it.

The computer industry because of early sloppyness has made a mess of things.

The only folks who use the 1024 meaning of K are programmers and it has no
use for ordinary computer users. I don't understand why we all can't just
decide to drop the early computereeze atrocity.

Because it has become too ingrained in our culture. Get used to it.

I'm not out to start a "thread war" here, so this will probably be
my last post in this thread.

-- Bob Day

 

[Ron Reaugh]

Nope once again.

Wrong again.

You are confusing rates with bytes.

Bytes nor rates have anything to do with the issue at hand. The issue is
the definition of K, M & G.

When
the term GB (gigabytes) stands alone, in the computer world
it generally means 2^30 (except for hardware retailers).

Defines "stands alone". As I've already shown that is only half true.

Rates
are another matter.

My how convenient to ignore half of reality.

It's a confusing world. Reality is that way.
memory.

Nope, it's popular and correct.

Wrong again. Popular and INCORRECT.

If you multiply 256 by 1,000,000,
you'll get the wrong answer for the number of bytes of memory
you have.

Yep but then that proves MY point.

That would just add to the confusion.

Only for the clueless.

Note that you said "133,333,333.33(classic) MB/sec" previously
(see 10 lines above). Also, 'classic' is a slippery word, and you
didn't define it.

Nice try at the slight of hand but the thread is there for anyone to read
for themselves.
I got it right and you didn't even know the bandwidth of a PCI bus.

Because it has become too ingrained in our culture. Get used to it.

I'm not out to start a "thread war" here, so this will probably be
my last post in this thread.

Smart move.

 

[Bob Willard]

I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs with 160
gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the hang o it. But when
I checked the hard drive capacity in properties it registered 140 Gb. So as
youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer Shop" and complained. The man told my
dad that xp took up 15 gig in "hidden hard drive space". But that wouldnt
affect the capacity of the hard drive stats on the properties tab. What do
yous think. I need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the geniuses
apparently lol)

As others have said, there are two sets of definitions for KB/MB/GB/etc. --
and both are used for HDs. In Explorer, if you right-click on a HD then
click on Properties, Windows will show the size of that HD using *both*
definitions, so you can argue with "The Computer Shop" using unambiguous
data. And, by looking only at the bottom (Capacity) line, there will be
no confusion caused by hidden files and the like.

This PC's Boot HD, for example, shows a capacity of:

- 74,340,044,800 bytes (a 74GB HD, with a 0.34GB bonus)

- 69.2 GB (meaning about 69.2*1024*1024*1024 bytes)

While I wish that M$ used the same definitions for HD sizes that HD vendors
use, I applaud M$'s double listing of HD capacity under a HD's properties.

 

[Guest]

My 120GB drives show as 115GB in the drives properties - I don't think and
extra 40 GB shouyld lead to another 15GB difference!

 

[Shenan Stanley]

I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs
with 160 gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the
hang o it. But when I checked the hard drive capacity in properties
it registered 140 Gb. So as youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer
Shop" and complained. The man told my dad that xp took up 15 gig in
"hidden hard drive space". But that wouldnt affect the capacity of
the hard drive stats on the properties tab. What do yous think. I
need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the geniuses
apparently lol)

My 120GB drives show as 115GB in the drives properties - I don't
think and extra 40 GB shouyld lead to another 15GB difference!

mad_tunes,

Here are your realistic and actual numbers...

Advertised --- Actual Capacity
10GB --- 9.31 GB
20GB --- 18.63 GB
30GB --- 27.94 GB
40GB --- 37.25 GB
60GB --- 55.88 GB
80GB --- 74.51 GB
100GB --- 93.13 GB
120GB --- 111.76 GB
160GB --- 149.01 GB
180GB --- 167.64 GB
200GB --- 186.26 GB
250GB --- 232.83 GB