Frontpage 2003, XML and XSL

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jeffrey Rhoads
  • Start date Start date
J

Jeffrey Rhoads

I just upgraded to FrontPage 2003, partly with the idea that I could begin
learning about transforming XML data with XSL using FrontPage's WYSIWYG XSL
editor.

Although I understood that SharePoint Services were required for a data
enabled site, I really expected that I would at least be able to open an XML
file, its companion XSL file, preview the transformation, and edit the XSL
file via the WYSIWYG editor. Is there any way to do this within FrontPage
2003 without committing to Server 2003, SharePoint services, data views,
etc.?

Secondly, if I must commit to the SharePoint services and data view model to
get this basic XML/XSL editing capability, is there any low cost "personal
server" version that I can use for testing purposes on my local PC (win2k)?

Thanks...

Jeff R.
 
-----Original Message-----
I just upgraded to FrontPage 2003, partly with the idea
that I could begin learning about transforming XML data
with XSL using FrontPage's WYSIWYG XSL editor.

Although I understood that SharePoint Services were
required for a data enabled site, I really expected that
I would at least be able to open an XML file, its
companion XSL file, preview the transformation, and edit
the XSL file via the WYSIWYG editor. Is there any way
to do this within FrontPage 2003 without committing to
Server 2003, SharePoint services, data views, etc.?
Click to expand...

No. Windows SharePoint Services provides too much or the
required infrastructure.
Secondly, if I must commit to the SharePoint services
and data view model to get this basic XML/XSL editing
capability, is there any low cost "personal server"
version that I can use for testing purposes on my local
PC (win2k)?
Click to expand...

No. Windows SharePoint Services uses services and API
available only on Windows Server 2003.

A copy of Windows 2003 server will set you back about
$900. However, you can also get it by purchasing:

o An MSDN Operating Systems subscription for $700 or,
o An MSDN Professional DVD subscription for $1089. This
also includes Visual Studio .NET.

Jim Buyens
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
http://www.interlacken.com
Author of:
*----------------------------------------------------
|\---------------------------------------------------
|| Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003 Inside Out
|| Microsoft FrontPage Version 2002 Inside Out
|| Web Database Development Step by Step .NET Edition
|| Troubleshooting Microsoft FrontPage 2002
|| Faster Smarter Beginning Programming
|| (All from Microsoft Press)
|/---------------------------------------------------
*----------------------------------------------------
 
Thanks for your quick response. I'm dissapointed that FrontPage's XSL
editor has no standalone capablity outside of the SharePoint services. Some
more thoughts on this...

I use FrontPage on an occasional basis to create html and asp pages and
manage a small web site. I also use the product as my editor when I need to
create HTML pages for various programming projects. What I've learned about
creating XSL files to transform XML data suggests that the whole process
would greatly benefit from a WYSIWYG editor, and not one that just supports
the SharePoint Services mode of interacting with data.

I'm comfortable using the FrontPage editor and certainly would have liked to
use it as a generic XSL editor, in the same way I use FrontPage to edit HTML
files. When you say that SharePoint Services provides "too much of the
infrastructure", are you saying that the FrontPage client program does not
include the logic/code to visually build an XSL file? If the editor is
built into the FrontPage client, I would think that it would be relatively
easy to specify a local XML file as the datasource and add at least layout
and style information via the editor.

Since I cannot test the XSL editor, and have not yet found any screenshots
demonstrating this capability in the 27 page "Faster/Smarter" guide or help
file, possibly I do not understand how the editor actually works.

One other comment. I browsed an article the other day that showed how to
easily transform an XML file from within an ASP page using an XSL file and
the MSXML Parser object. There are clearly people out there doing things
with XML, XSL and other Microsoft technologies without necessarily using
SharePoint Services. If they are manually coding their XSL, it certainly
seems like a more open FrontPage XSL visual editor would benefit developers.

Jeff R.
 
FYI

You can sign up for a 30 day free trial of WSS at
http://www.sharepointtrial.com/default.aspx

You can also explore the online XML demo of FP at
http://www.runaware.com/microsoft/frontpage2003/
--




| Thanks for your quick response. I'm dissapointed that FrontPage's XSL
| editor has no standalone capablity outside of the SharePoint services. Some
| more thoughts on this...
|
| I use FrontPage on an occasional basis to create html and asp pages and
| manage a small web site. I also use the product as my editor when I need to
| create HTML pages for various programming projects. What I've learned about
| creating XSL files to transform XML data suggests that the whole process
| would greatly benefit from a WYSIWYG editor, and not one that just supports
| the SharePoint Services mode of interacting with data.
|
| I'm comfortable using the FrontPage editor and certainly would have liked to
| use it as a generic XSL editor, in the same way I use FrontPage to edit HTML
| files. When you say that SharePoint Services provides "too much of the
| infrastructure", are you saying that the FrontPage client program does not
| include the logic/code to visually build an XSL file? If the editor is
| built into the FrontPage client, I would think that it would be relatively
| easy to specify a local XML file as the datasource and add at least layout
| and style information via the editor.
|
| Since I cannot test the XSL editor, and have not yet found any screenshots
| demonstrating this capability in the 27 page "Faster/Smarter" guide or help
| file, possibly I do not understand how the editor actually works.
|
| One other comment. I browsed an article the other day that showed how to
| easily transform an XML file from within an ASP page using an XSL file and
| the MSXML Parser object. There are clearly people out there doing things
| with XML, XSL and other Microsoft technologies without necessarily using
| SharePoint Services. If they are manually coding their XSL, it certainly
| seems like a more open FrontPage XSL visual editor would benefit developers.
|
| Jeff R.
|
|
 
Although I understood that SharePoint Services were required for a data
enabled site,
Click to expand...

You're assumption is incorrect. FrontPage 2003 can do database connectivity
with ASP or ASP.Net, in addition to SharePoint. SharePoint is a technology
for doing a specific kind of web site, generally for doing sites that are
collaborative within the context of a Team or Organizational Unit, although
there are features that can be used in other different yet similar contexts.
For the most part, SharePoint sites are not public.

SharePoint web sites are very little like typical web sites. For the most
part, there are no pages; instead, everything is stored in SQL Server or
MSDE as XML. For this reason, there are only a few software products that
you can use to work with SharePoint sites. FrontPage 2003 is one of them.
And the XML and XSL/XSLT tools in FrontPage were created for that specific
purpose.

If you simply want a database-connective web application for a public web
site, consider using ASP or ASP.Net.

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.
 
Thanks Kevin for a good explanation of SharePoint Services

I am aware of ASP and use it to a limited degree to data enable portions of
my site. My statement that "SharePoint Services were required for a data
enabled site" was made in the context of enabling and using FrontPage's
XML/XSL editing features.

Since I'm not interested in a non-public, "team oriented" xml/xsl
development web environment, you reinforced my perception that SharePoint
services aren't for me. But, hey, I'm starting to see the possibilities of
using XML/XSL within ASP and in other programming projects. So, what tool
do I use to make the process of generating XSL files easier?

One of my points in this thread is that I would have liked to use
FrontPage's XSL "WYSIWIG" editor (if there is such a thing built into the
product) for this purpose. FrontPage's HTML layout and editing capabilities
aren't limited to SharePoint web sites, and I was hoping that the new XSL
editing capability took a similar open approach. Since Microsoft is pushing
XML/XSL, doesn't this make sense? I like FrontPage's layout capabilities
and would prefer not to pay for and learn still another layout editor. Out
of curiosity, is there a WYSIWIG layout editor that ASP and ASP.NET
developers use to visually generate their XSL transformation files?
 
One of my points in this thread is that I would have liked to use
FrontPage's XSL "WYSIWIG" editor (if there is such a thing built into the
product) for this purpose. FrontPage's HTML layout and editing capabilities
aren't limited to SharePoint web sites, and I was hoping that the new XSL
editing capability took a similar open approach. Since Microsoft is pushing
XML/XSL, doesn't this make sense? I like FrontPage's layout capabilities
and would prefer not to pay for and learn still another layout editor. Out
of curiosity, is there a WYSIWIG layout editor that ASP and ASP.NET
developers use to visually generate their XSL transformation files?
Click to expand...

I agree completely. I haven't personally investigated the capabilities of
FrontPage's XML/XLS tools for other than SharePoint applications, but it
would certainly be an excellent idea for those tools to be enabled for any
type of XML/XLS editing.

I'm not aware of any WYSIWYG tool for XSL development other than FrontPage
2003 affords, but I haven't really investigated that as of yet.

I would guess that if FrontPage 2003's XSL tools are not usable outside of
SharePoint, that it will not be long before they will be. I do know that
Microsoft is heavily invested in XML-related technologies.

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.
 
FrontPage 2003 has many new features for working with Windows
SharePoint Services (WSS). These are great if your corporation or
client has standardized on SharePoint as a corporate portal solution,
but not terribly useful otherwise.

WSS itself maintains a catalog of XML data sources (XML files,
databases, Web services, ...) and uses XSL to transform these into
HTML for display. All this happens on the server. FrontPage is only a
front-end editor, and depends totally on WSS for maintaining the data
source catalog and other components.

XML can store so many kinds of data, and XSL can transform it in so
many ways, that writing a general purpose, WYSIWYG, XSL would be quite
a challenge. I suppose that someday, someone will create such a thing
but for now, FrontPage addresses only a subset, and for a specific
purpose.

SharePoint-like portals, BTW, seem to be a growing trend on intranets.

Jim Buyens
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
http://www.interlacken.com
Author of:
*----------------------------------------------------
|\---------------------------------------------------
|| Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003 Inside Out
|| Microsoft FrontPage Version 2002 Inside Out
|| Web Database Development Step by Step .NET Edition
|| Troubleshooting Microsoft FrontPage 2002
|| Faster Smarter Beginning Programming
|| (All from Microsoft Press)
|/---------------------------------------------------
*----------------------------------------------------
 
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