Fragmentation: MS lies and Linux that never frags much

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Tiberius

Some guys in here asked about the following informaton:
I dont reply to trolls directly anymore.


yeah I know... educating the vistaboys and vistagals for one more time....

MS thought NTFS was fragment-proof and did not provide defragmentation tool
-See second paragraph.
http://www.lascon.co.uk/d009002.htm

Linux file systems get fragmented very little, so little there is no defrag
utility in linux and here is why:
http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/index.php/2006/08/17/why_doesn_t_linux_need_defragmenting

Its funny.. the MS rumor that NTFS does not need defrag is still floating
around...
and is much alive. Is that why they have defrag as a service in vista? LOL

see here in the comments: http://vistarewired.com/2007/02/15/defragment/
 
I sure am grateful someone as skilled/insifghtful as you takes the time to
educate someone all mixed up like me.

CH
 
Tiberius said:
Some guys in here asked about the following informaton:
I dont reply to trolls directly anymore.


yeah I know... educating the vistaboys and vistagals for one more time....

MS thought NTFS was fragment-proof and did not provide defragmentation tool
-See second paragraph.
http://www.lascon.co.uk/d009002.htm

Linux file systems get fragmented very little, so little there is no defrag
utility in linux and here is why:
http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/index.php/2006/08/17/why_doesn_t_linux_need_defragmenting

Its funny.. the MS rumor that NTFS does not need defrag is still floating
around...
and is much alive. Is that why they have defrag as a service in vista? LOL

see here in the comments: http://vistarewired.com/2007/02/15/defragment/
Click to expand...
Hey jackass...I'm talking to you bozo, supply "white paper" proof where
MS stated that NTFS did not or would not, become fragmented.
We all know that ALL FS's become fragmented (ALL means linux too you idiot).
Frank
 
Tiberius said:
Some guys in here asked about the following informaton:
I dont reply to trolls directly anymore.


yeah I know... educating the vistaboys and vistagals for one more time....

MS thought NTFS was fragment-proof and did not provide defragmentation tool
-See second paragraph.
http://www.lascon.co.uk/d009002.htm

Linux file systems get fragmented very little, so little there is no defrag
utility in linux
Click to expand...

Umm... yes, there are plenty.
e2defrag
xfs_fsr
etc.
and here is why:
http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/index.php/2006/08/17/why_doesn_t_linux_need_defragmenting
Click to expand...

Slightly amusing to compare a linux filesystem with MS-DOS 5's FAT and
say that it's like-for-like.
However, NTFS uses similar technology to ext3 to prevent fragmentation
issues (and some other nice stuff too).
Its funny.. the MS rumor that NTFS does not need defrag is still floating
around...
and is much alive. Is that why they have defrag as a service in vista?
Click to expand...

Rumour? NTFS is not particularly adversely affected by fragmentation,
for the same reason as ext3 isn't particularly adversely affected. The
defragmentation service runs to catch cases where fragmentation occurs
(just as it occurs when you're using ext3, or any other filesystem that
supports non-sequential storage of files)
NT-based operating systems before Windows 2000 didn't have a
defragmentation utility.

Alun Harford
 
Alun said:
Umm... yes, there are plenty.
e2defrag
xfs_fsr
etc.


Slightly amusing to compare a linux filesystem with MS-DOS 5's FAT and
say that it's like-for-like.
However, NTFS uses similar technology to ext3 to prevent fragmentation
issues (and some other nice stuff too).


Rumour? NTFS is not particularly adversely affected by fragmentation,
for the same reason as ext3 isn't particularly adversely affected. The
defragmentation service runs to catch cases where fragmentation occurs
(just as it occurs when you're using ext3, or any other filesystem that
supports non-sequential storage of files)
NT-based operating systems before Windows 2000 didn't have a
defragmentation utility.

Alun Harford
Click to expand...

Jeanette Wrote:


When I got my MCSE back in NT 4 days it was stated that NTFS filesystems
did not require defragmenting and that's why a defrag utility didn't
come with NT. 4.

When one showed up on Windows 2000 from back up exec who was saying all
along that NT 4 did fragment, I was not too surprised.
 
Tiberius said:
the proof is everywhere about this...
Click to expand...

So lets summarize this defrag thing:
1) all fs's (ms & linux) fragment
2) all ms os's (2K & up) come with a defragger, linux does not.
Frank
 
Tiberius said:
the proof is everywhere about this...

yet some dorks in here still deny it if they don't see it chiseled in
writing on the tablets of
the ten commandments themselves...placed inside the ark of the covenant!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the_Covenant
Click to expand...
Yeh, Frankie Boy keeps requesting a "white paper". Probably needs to wipe
his ass now that he's pulled his head out of it to catch a breath.

Love and Kisses,
Doris

--
My Microsoft Hero (he loves this company!) ... http://tinyurl.com/yp9cn2
Every flatscreen TV coming out of Asia today is Linux based. [Andrew Morton]
BallmerBumBois: Frank, Julian, Richard Urban, Jupiter Jones, Harry Krause,
Feliks Dzerzhinsky
Sorry if I missed anyone, place your name here _________________.
 
Also the fact that linux fragments far less is everywhere... it fragments so
little that no one cares about including defrag apps
with the distros.... and when we say that.. we know that some distros come
with 200 -500 apps utilities and other functions..

by leaving a defrag out means that no one cares because linux doesnt really
need it. Linux users know this, its the vistaboys that
just cant accept it.

On ntfs however I have seen that it does indeed needs defrag.. and quite a
bit if you keep changing files like I do...

What is also very irritating about the new vista defeag is that they have no
way to monitor the progress!!
they just have a cursor busy icon there.... no indication of whats going
on...

now I call that stupid.... vista is stupid.




Doris Day - MFB said:
Tiberius said:
the proof is everywhere about this...

yet some dorks in here still deny it if they don't see it chiseled in
writing on the tablets of
the ten commandments themselves...placed inside the ark of the
covenant!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the_Covenant
Click to expand...
Yeh, Frankie Boy keeps requesting a "white paper". Probably needs to wipe
his ass now that he's pulled his head out of it to catch a breath.

Love and Kisses,
Doris

--
My Microsoft Hero (he loves this company!) ... http://tinyurl.com/yp9cn2
Every flatscreen TV coming out of Asia today is Linux based. [Andrew
Morton]
BallmerBumBois: Frank, Julian, Richard Urban, Jupiter Jones, Harry Krause,
Feliks Dzerzhinsky
Sorry if I missed anyone, place your name here _________________.
Click to expand...
 
Frank said:
So lets summarize this defrag thing:
1) all fs's (ms & linux) fragment
No.

2) all ms os's (2K & up) come with a defragger, linux does not.
Correct.

Frank
Click to expand...

Love and Kisses,
Doris

--
My Microsoft Hero (he loves this company!) ... http://tinyurl.com/yp9cn2
Every flatscreen TV coming out of Asia today is Linux based. [Andrew Morton]
BallmerBumBois: Frank, Julian, Richard Urban, Jupiter Jones, Harry Krause,
Feliks Dzerzhinsky
Sorry if I missed anyone, place your name here _________________.
 
Frank said:
So lets summarize this defrag thing:
1) all fs's (ms & linux) fragment
Click to expand...

Correction:

- NTFS will fragment under any conditions. As files fragment, the problem
compounds as now new files are created between fragments of already
fragmented files creating more fragmented files. If a fragmented file is
deleted and a new file ends up created in its place, it will be just as
fragmented.

- Ext3 will fragment under conditions where preventing fragmentation is
nearly impossible. A hard drive that is almost full for example. If space
is made available fragmentation will over time be eliminated again as files
can now be created without fragmentation.

Basically Ext3 (and a few other Linux File Systems) will maintain themselves
in a very little to none fragmented state if possible while NTFS has to
rely on 3rd party tools to be defragmented and will only get worse over
time.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰
 
Oh now.. you are making sense... in a little while Frank will come crying
for white papers...


He seems to have run out of toilet paper.... :-)
 
Stephan said:
Frank wrote:




Correction:

- NTFS will fragment under any conditions. As files fragment, the problem
compounds as now new files are created between fragments of already
fragmented files creating more fragmented files. If a fragmented file is
deleted and a new file ends up created in its place, it will be just as
fragmented.

- Ext3 will fragment under conditions where preventing fragmentation is
nearly impossible. A hard drive that is almost full for example. If space
is made available fragmentation will over time be eliminated again as files
can now be created without fragmentation.

Basically Ext3 (and a few other Linux File Systems) will maintain themselves
in a very little to none fragmented state if possible while NTFS has to
rely on 3rd party tools to be defragmented and will only get worse over
time.
Click to expand...


Isn't that exactly what I said?

...."NTFS will fragment"...
...."Ext3 will fragment"...

Frank
 
Tiberius said:
Oh now.. you are making sense... in a little while Frank will come crying
for white papers...
Click to expand...

You could not backup your statement when I said..."supply white paper
proof" (MS released documentation) where MS stated that NTFS did not or
would not, become fragmented".
MS did not supply any defragging software in the original NT because
they probably did not want to pay a royalty for it's use which they
eventually did and are still doing.
Frank
 
Frank said:
Isn't that exactly what I said?

..."NTFS will fragment"...
..."Ext3 will fragment"...
Click to expand...

No because "will fragment" implies that it will unconditionally do so.

A more correct statement would be:

NFTS will fragment.
Ext3 may fragment.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰
 
Frank said:
Isn't that exactly what I said?

..."NTFS will fragment"...
..."Ext3 will fragment"...

Frank
Click to expand...

****, I can't believe how dumb you really are!

Love and Kisses,
Doris

--
My Microsoft Hero (he loves this company!) ... http://tinyurl.com/yp9cn2
Every flatscreen TV coming out of Asia today is Linux based. [Andrew Morton]
BallmerBumBois: Frank, Julian, Richard Urban, Jupiter Jones, Harry Krause,
Feliks Dzerzhinsky
Sorry if I missed anyone, place your name here _________________.
 
Frank said:
You could not backup your statement when I said..."supply white paper
proof" (MS released documentation) where MS stated that NTFS did not or
would not, become fragmented".
MS did not supply any defragging software in the original NT because
they probably did not want to pay a royalty for it's use which they
eventually did and are still doing.
Frank
Click to expand...

They ****ing invented NTFS and you're saying they were incapable of
programming a defragger for THEIR OWN pos file system? Sigh ... and he
still thinks MickeyMouse is the greatest. <snort>

Love and Kisses,
Doris

--
My Microsoft Hero (he loves this company!) ... http://tinyurl.com/yp9cn2
Every flatscreen TV coming out of Asia today is Linux based. [Andrew Morton]
BallmerBumBois: Frank, Julian, Richard Urban, Jupiter Jones, Harry Krause,
Feliks Dzerzhinsky
Sorry if I missed anyone, place your name here _________________.
 
Frank said:
Doris Day - MFB wrote:



Liar!
Click to expand...

You're just an ignorant pos who knows bugger all about computers. Why don't
you get back into your Grade 4 reading comprehension class?

Love and Kisses,
Doris
Try and get your balds head out of your fat ass.
Click to expand...
Infantile disorder.
Frank
Click to expand...

--
My Microsoft Hero (he loves this company!) ... http://tinyurl.com/yp9cn2
Every flatscreen TV coming out of Asia today is Linux based. [Andrew Morton]
BallmerBumBois: Frank, Julian, Richard Urban, Jupiter Jones, Harry Krause,
Feliks Dzerzhinsky
Sorry if I missed anyone, place your name here _________________.
 
Manual Defrag is a thing of the past, let it die a a well earned death.

Now before I get jumped upon let me explain, hard drives running windows do
get fragmented, I think we all accept that, but the Vista defrag program
does a decent job all by itself, running in the background.
To back up that statement here's some numbers, I have programs coming and
going on this computer all the time, I've never run defrag manually, it runs
once a week on a Wednesday night, so there's a weeks worth of fragmentation
on here right now.
I downloaded Auslogics Disk Defrag 1.1 and ran it:

182786 Total Files in 28717 Directories
Fragmented Files 443, that's not bad at all, 4.25%

Now, examining the files that it defragged, I see 2 from the Recycle Bin, 8
from Search data, some GoogleEarth stuff, Messenger stuff, a whole bunch
from Temporary Internet Files, some Sidebar Gadgets files (from the Orb
clock I installed the other day) and the rest were mostly Deleted Mail items
with a few logs thrown in.

Hardly system bog down files are they? In fact why the heck would you defrag
deleted and temp files?

I'm satisfied enough to say that defrag is now a system process, and just
forget about it.

After all, when your spouse is cleaning the bathroom, do you go and watch?
Of course not, that's just part of the system process, you have better
things to do with your time, right.
 
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