File sharing capabilities of XP Home

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Up until recently i had one pc in my house which i had been adding hard disks
to in order to handle more and more storage space.Therefore one of the disks
has XP home edition on and the rest are just NTFS file system for storage.I
recently got another pc which came preinstalled with XP Home on it and i
wished to see all my drives from the older pc through filer sharing from the
new pc.I have a hardware firewall and so i was not that worried about
security and so i simply shared the 3 disks from the older pc so that i could
see them on the new pc.I thought this had worked perfectly until i realised
that i could not access certain folders ,in particular 'My documents' which
was the main point for doing this.I just get 'Access is Denied'.I have tried
in vain to find info on the internet but have had no luck.I believe this may
be a feature of home edition but there must still be some way of doing this
without having to upgrade to professional.Can anybody shed any light on this?
 
Up until recently i had one pc in my house which i had been adding hard disks
to in order to handle more and more storage space.Therefore one of the disks
has XP home edition on and the rest are just NTFS file system for storage.I
recently got another pc which came preinstalled with XP Home on it and i
wished to see all my drives from the older pc through filer sharing from the
new pc.I have a hardware firewall and so i was not that worried about
security and so i simply shared the 3 disks from the older pc so that i could
see them on the new pc.I thought this had worked perfectly until i realised
that i could not access certain folders ,in particular 'My documents' which
was the main point for doing this.I just get 'Access is Denied'.I have tried
in vain to find info on the internet but have had no luck.I believe this may
be a feature of home edition but there must still be some way of doing this
without having to upgrade to professional.Can anybody shed any light on this?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but that's how Windows XP works, by default, when it's
installed on an NTFS disk partition. It blocks access to the Program
Files and Windows folders and to individual users' "My Documents"
folders within Documents and Settings.

You can share subfolders within those folders, e.g. you can share
"C:\Program Files\Outlook Express" or "C:\Documents and
Settings\Username\Desktop" and access that folder from another
computer on the network.

If you have Windows XP Professional, you can disable simple file
sharing, which removes those sharing restrictions:

1. Open My Computer and click Tools | Folder Options | View.
2. Scroll to the end of the advanced settings.
3. Un-check "Use simple file sharing (recommended)".

If you have Windows XP Home Edition, that option isn't available The
safest thing is to share individual subfolders, as mentioned above, or
to move files into the Shared Documents folder, which is accessible
over the network.

You can re-install the operating system on a FAT or FAT32 disk
partition -- those disk formats don't have any sharing restrictions.
However, that would lose the benefits of NTFS, which is more reliable
and efficient and can use larger disks. You'd also need to re-install
all of your applications.

I've heard of three possible solutions for XP Home Edition on an NTFS
disk partition, but they're unsupported and undocumented. I haven't
tried them, and I don't know whether they're safe. If you want to try
them, back up your important data and create a system restore point
first:

1. Start Windows XP in "Safe Mode with Networking" (which temporarily
disables "Simple File Sharing"), share the desired folder(s), set the
permissions, and reboot normally.

2. Use the CACLS command, as described here:

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.network_web/msg/6faf782867cba46f

3. Follow the procedure shown here:

http://www.dougknox.com/xp/tips/xp_home_sectab.htm

--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
 
Steve:

Very helpful post. I networked XP home at the office and home and thought it
strange that you and others also mentioned

" It blocks access to the Program
Files and Windows folders and to individual users' "My Documents"
folders within Documents and Settings"
Click to expand...

Maybe it's not meant to be used this way, but yet I right clicked
properties in "My Documents" on many of the PC's in the network, all users
with admin privileges, and under the tab "sharing" I flagged all the files
"sharable" and a second box saying users can "change the files".

In fact, I flagged one or two USB backup drives sharable this way, and
there's warnings NOT to flag the C Drive sharable. Would they say this if
it's not possible?? I haven't done it since I think it's danagerous to have a
C Drive totally sharable.

Seems I'm able to create, read, write, and print everything under "My
Documents" on other machines in the workgroup. It's set up this way because
it's "me" using the documents on different machines, and for others that need
to help me on the documents. I "revoke" permission on subdirectories that I
keep personal data.

Is it supposed to work this way?? If this was not possible, I was going to
mass migrate stuff to sharable docs.

The only "My Document" that I was NOT able to get into, access denied, is on
my daugher's PC, and she's got no admin privileges set up. Yet I'm unable to
access her "My Documents" with an admin account.

Seems things are in reverse??
 
Steve:

Very helpful post. I networked XP home at the office and home and thought it
strange that you and others also mentioned


Maybe it's not meant to be used this way, but yet I right clicked
properties in "My Documents" on many of the PC's in the network, all users
with admin privileges, and under the tab "sharing" I flagged all the files
"sharable" and a second box saying users can "change the files".
Click to expand...

That's normal. By default, XP Home on an NTFS partition denies
networked access to Program Files, Windows, and individual users'
folders in Documents and Settings (such as C:\Documents and
Settings\Frank). You can share folders within those folders (such as
C:\Documents and Settings\Frank\Frank's Documents, which is your "My
Documents" folder).
In fact, I flagged one or two USB backup drives sharable this way, and
there's warnings NOT to flag the C Drive sharable. Would they say this if
it's not possible?? I haven't done it since I think it's danagerous to have a
C Drive totally sharable.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's possible to share the whole C drive. I don't think that
anyone said otherwise.

Even with the whole C drive shared, XP Home on an NTFS partition
denies networked access to Program Files, Windows, and individual
users' folders in Documents and Settings.
Seems I'm able to create, read, write, and print everything under "My
Documents" on other machines in the workgroup. It's set up this way because
it's "me" using the documents on different machines, and for others that need
to help me on the documents. I "revoke" permission on subdirectories that I
keep personal data.

Is it supposed to work this way?? If this was not possible, I was going to
mass migrate stuff to sharable docs.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's how it should work.
The only "My Document" that I was NOT able to get into, access denied, is on
my daugher's PC, and she's got no admin privileges set up. Yet I'm unable to
access her "My Documents" with an admin account.

Seems things are in reverse??
Click to expand...

Perhaps your daughter made her My Documents folder private, which
denies access by other users. For details, see the Help and Support
topic "To make your folders private".

When you access a Windows XP Home Edition computer over the network,
it makes no difference whether you have an Admin account. XP Home
ignores your actual account. It validates all requests for network
access using the built-in Guest account.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
 
Bottom line is, XP is based on NT, which was based on earlier systems
originally designed around multiple users of the SAME computer, in the days
when a computer cost a Kings's ransom, filled a room, and took as much power
as the average street. So its use simply had to be shared.

With the advent of the IBM PC, computers became one-per-desk, and the
original DOS/Windows OS had no need for user-accounts as such. On networked
computers, users logged-on to the fileserver, not to their own workstation.

XP has in effect put the clock back on this one. We're now using an OS that
behaves more like those of the pre-personal-computer era, in having multiple,
segregated local users. With XP Home, Microsoft have exploited that
capability to make a system which suits the home environment, with mammy,
pappy and junior all having their own separate account and workspace on one
computer. In this capacity it works well.

It's when you start to network computers that this model becomes
troublesome. You then have a situation where multiple computers also have
multiple users, so you have 'computers times users' accounts in total.
Changing your logon or password affects not only your network-access but also
the behaviour of your own computer AND other users' ability to network with
you, and these effects can never be fully separated. This makes networking
such computers very much more complex and problematic than the single-user
variety.

The worst aspect of the NT security-model is that Administrators are not
really Administrators - Although they can take possession of files, they are
still unable to get into certain folders, other than by way of a brute-force
reset of permissions. AFAIK no other operating system works this way, for
example root in Unix has full access to everything. Thus, although all XP
Home users are Admins, you still get these kinds of problems where folders
prove to be inaccessible.

Anyway, I digress. My advice would be to store your shared files in a folder
outside of the "Documents and Settings" folder structure. This will avoid the
user-related problems.
 
Ian said:
Bottom line is, XP is based on NT, which was based on earlier systems
originally designed around multiple users of the SAME computer, in the days
when a computer cost a Kings's ransom, filled a room, and took as much power
as the average street. So its use simply had to be shared.

With the advent of the IBM PC, computers became one-per-desk, and the
original DOS/Windows OS had no need for user-accounts as such. On networked
computers, users logged-on to the fileserver, not to their own workstation.

XP has in effect put the clock back on this one. We're now using an OS that
behaves more like those of the pre-personal-computer era, in having multiple,
segregated local users. With XP Home, Microsoft have exploited that
capability to make a system which suits the home environment, with mammy,
pappy and junior all having their own separate account and workspace on one
computer. In this capacity it works well.

It's when you start to network computers that this model becomes
troublesome. You then have a situation where multiple computers also have
multiple users, so you have 'computers times users' accounts in total.
Changing your logon or password affects not only your network-access but also
the behaviour of your own computer AND other users' ability to network with
you, and these effects can never be fully separated. This makes networking
such computers very much more complex and problematic than the single-user
variety.

The worst aspect of the NT security-model is that Administrators are not
really Administrators - Although they can take possession of files, they are
still unable to get into certain folders, other than by way of a brute-force
reset of permissions. AFAIK no other operating system works this way, for
example root in Unix has full access to everything. Thus, although all XP
Home users are Admins, you still get these kinds of problems where folders
prove to be inaccessible.

Anyway, I digress. My advice would be to store your shared files in a folder
outside of the "Documents and Settings" folder structure. This will avoid the
user-related problems.
Click to expand...

Microsoft tried to avoid those complications for home users by making
all networked access to an XP Home Edition computer use the Guest
account. In XP Home Edition, all users on all computers can access
shared disks and folders. There's no need to create matching user
accounts on all computers.

The NT model that you cite applies to XP Professional, but not to XP
Home. The OP has XP Home, so information about XP Professional isn't
relevant to the question at hand.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
 
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