External Hard Drive theory

  • Thread starter Thread starter Shane Nation
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Shane Nation

I have 2 Desktop PC's and 1 Laptop all running Windows XP home.



I am planning on buying a USB external hard drive.

Installing Windows XP on to it so it has an OS on it, then using Norton
Ghost; to make a ghost image of each PC onto the external drive.



If in the future I can plug the external drive into which ever PC I need to,
boot to the external drive and restore to the "C:" drive on which ever PC it
is plugged into.



Does this sound like a plan that would work?



I have concerns:

1.. Can I install Windows XP onto the external drive whilst it is plugged
into one the of PC's with Windows already on it?
2.. Can an external drive be used as a bootable drive?
3.. Would this work if one of my PC's became corrupt?


Please can anyone with knowledge on this advise me if this plan would work?



Thanks
 
You can not install Windows XP on an external hard drive. The setup program
won't allow it to happen. Some have said that they have done it but no one
have ever offered proof or even stated the methodology which allowed them to
accomplish this.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
Also you have heard that theory , One license for one
computer , Right ? Well what you would be trying to do is
illegal ...
 
It sounds to me that you can still accomplish what you want w/o
installing the OS directly on the external drive to make it bootable.

Not really sure why you would want to.

All you have to do is make sure the drive has been formatted -- NTFS is
better than FAT and it can be moved around to back-up whichever PC you
want.

I have an external drive and do it all the time.

--RichK.
 
Shane Nation said:
That kicks that plan into touch then?
Thanks for the advice


Shane:
Well, not quite. If I understand "Britspeak" correctly you're saying that
you don't think your "plan" will work, right?

But at least a portion of it will, and a significant one at that, if I
understand what you would like to accomplish.

First of all, Richard is correct in that you cannot (AFAIK) *directly*
install XP onto your USB external hard drive; however, using a disk imaging
program such as Ghost, you can *clone* the contents of your desktop
computers and your laptop to separate partitions that you previously created
(using XP's Disk Management utility) on your USB EHD. You will not, however,
be able to boot from the EHD. At least I've never been able to do so and
I've worked with a fairly large number of motherboards whose BIOS supposedly
supports this capability. I go under the assumption that a USB EHD
containing the XP OS is not bootable at this point in time.

Should one or the other desktop/laptop's system become corrupt and you need
to restore that system to a functional state, you would clone the contents
residing on the desired partition of the EHD back to the internal drive of
the computer involved. The process is relatively simple and shouldn't
provide any difficulty. I'm assuming in all this that you're working with
NTFS and not FAT32 file systems. If FAT32 is involved, then... No, I won't
go into it here but if FAT32 is an issue, so state and I'll go into that
issue in a bit more detail.
Anna
 
Anna,

You can't install to an external hard drive and an image placed on an
external hard drive won't boot. So, why even put one there? What is your
point - other than to confirm that what I said was correct? (-:

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
What version of Ghost?

The crux of your question is restoration, not the creation of the image.
Many imaging programs cannot access a USB device for restoration purposes,
even if using their boot media.

See:
http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/faq.html
What devices can be used to restore a system partition if I'm running
Acronis True Image 8.0 from a bootable diskette or CD-R(W)?
Acronis True Image 8.0 recognizes all hard disks connected to the PC, along
with a wide variety of removable media drives with P-ATA (IDE), S-ATA, SCSI,
USB, IEEE1394 (Firewire) and PCMCIA interfaces including: CD-ROM / DVD-ROM
and CD-R(W)recorders and burners, magneto-optical drives, Zip and Jaz
devices, and many others.

You won't know if the restore can access the USB hard drive until you try
it. I don't recommend USB if its not the 2.0 version for hard drive use.

The safest way is to use something that be commonly accessed from ms-dos.
Namely, another hard drive, or perhaps a DVD media written in ISO 8660
format.

Firewire is best in an XP environment for external hard drive speed and
access.
 
Shane:
Well, not quite. If I understand "Britspeak" correctly you're saying that
you don't think your "plan" will work, right?

But at least a portion of it will, and a significant one at that, if I
understand what you would like to accomplish.

First of all, Richard is correct in that you cannot (AFAIK) *directly*
install XP onto your USB external hard drive; however, using a disk imaging
program such as Ghost, you can *clone* the contents of your desktop
computers and your laptop to separate partitions that you previously created
(using XP's Disk Management utility) on your USB EHD. You will not, however,
be able to boot from the EHD. At least I've never been able to do so and
I've worked with a fairly large number of motherboards whose BIOS supposedly
supports this capability. I go under the assumption that a USB EHD
containing the XP OS is not bootable at this point in time.

Should one or the other desktop/laptop's system become corrupt and you need
to restore that system to a functional state, you would clone the contents
residing on the desired partition of the EHD back to the internal drive of
the computer involved. The process is relatively simple and shouldn't
provide any difficulty. I'm assuming in all this that you're working with
NTFS and not FAT32 file systems. If FAT32 is involved, then... No, I won't
go into it here but if FAT32 is an issue, so state and I'll go into that
issue in a bit more detail.
Anna



If you get Acronis TrueImage software you backup your XP systems to
the EHD and restore them by booting from CD that's part of the TI
package. It's easy.

You can save several backup generations from several systems if your
EHD is large enough (or you have more than one.)

Ghost and bootitNG can also do this i believe.

You have to make sure the USB on each system works with the software.


test test test

http://www.taobackup.com/
 
hmmmm said:
Also you have heard that theory , One license for one
computer , Right ? Well what you would be trying to do is
illegal ...


Really? Illegal? Please show us the law or legal precedent that makes
it illegal.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
 
aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!



Richard Urban said:
Anna,

You can't install to an external hard drive and an image placed on an
external hard drive won't boot. So, why even put one there? What is your
point - other than to confirm that what I said was correct? (-:


My "point", Richard, is that the *ultimate* objective of the OP is to
maintain a viable backup system involving the operating systems/programs on
his two desktop machines and his laptop. While I explained that he could
clone the contents of those three machines onto specific partitions created
on a USB external hard drive, I pointed out that he could not boot from that
drive. (BTW, you *never* indicated that. All you stated is that the XP OS
could not be *directly* installed on a USB EHD, a fact with which I agree).

But to get back to the "point"...
So when the time comes when the user is having problems with one or more of
his or her internal drives, he/she could clone *back* to that drive the
appropriate contents from the USB EHD to that problem drive and be off &
running once again. Do you have a problem with that scenario?
Anna
 
OK. Was just wondering, as you confirmed what I had said.

That is one way Anna. But instead of cloning a drive, which takes maximum
space, I would just create a compressed image on the external drive using
Ghost 9.0, Drive Image 7.01, True Image - or one of the other available
programs. With Drive Image and Ghost (at least) you can image multiple
partitions in one process yet restore the partitions selectively, say only
partition C:

In thirteen years of using similar programs I have never used clone except
to directly copy one hard drive to a replacement hard drive. For recovery
purposes I believe that an image is sufficient, and preferable.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
Al Dykes said:
If you get Acronis TrueImage software you backup your XP systems to
the EHD and restore them by booting from CD that's part of the TI
package. It's easy.

You can save several backup generations from several systems if your
EHD is large enough (or you have more than one.)

Ghost and bootitNG can also do this i believe.

You have to make sure the USB on each system works with the software.
test test test

http://www.taobackup.com/
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.


Al:
This is one area of Acronis True Image that I have found wanting. I'm a
long-time user of Ghost and have been working with ATI only recently because
of all the favorable reviews I've read about this product. So far I've been
quite impressed with its speed of cloning. It's much faster than Ghost and
that's an important consideration for me in this type of product.

But...
Unlike Ghost, it's not a simple process (AFAIK) for ATI to *directly clone*
individual disk partitions (which is precisely the objective of the OP). For
example, he creates three partitions on his USB EHD to hold the contents of
his two desktops and one laptop. Now he wants to clone the contents of one
of his desktop machines to a specific partition created on the EHD
designated to hold those cloned contents. It's a easy matter to do this with
Ghost. One simply selects the partition on his/her destination drive to
receive the clone and that's that. It's simple and it's effective. But not
so with ATI, at least based upon my initial experience with that program. It
seems that at least in this instance, ATI is designed to perform a
*disk-to-disk* clone -- sort of an all or nothing approach. I can't seem to
find a way to *directly* clone from or to individual partitions. Sure, I
understand one can create disk images on removable media of individual
partitions and undertake the cloning process through that means. But the
simplicity and directness of the Ghost way is, to my way of thinking, much
more appealing. But if I'm wrong about this, please enlighten me.
Anna
 
We backup to external devices all the time, USB, SCSI Drives, etc... As
long as the Imaging software has a driver that supports the external
device, that's all you need.

You connect the external device to the PC, boot from the Imaging softwares
Diskette or CD, make a image of the drive as a FILE on the external
device, repeat for other computers.

To restore, connect external device to bad computer, boot bad computer
from Disk/CD with Imaging software, select proper image from external
device, restore, reboot computer, done.
 
Al:
This is one area of Acronis True Image that I have found wanting. I'm a
long-time user of Ghost and have been working with ATI only recently because
of all the favorable reviews I've read about this product. So far I've been
quite impressed with its speed of cloning. It's much faster than Ghost and
that's an important consideration for me in this type of product.

But...
Unlike Ghost, it's not a simple process (AFAIK) for ATI to *directly clone*
individual disk partitions (which is precisely the objective of the OP). For
example, he creates three partitions on his USB EHD to hold the contents of
his two desktops and one laptop. Now he wants to clone the contents of one
of his desktop machines to a specific partition created on the EHD
designated to hold those cloned contents. It's a easy matter to do this with
Ghost. One simply selects the partition on his/her destination drive to
receive the clone and that's that. It's simple and it's effective. But not
so with ATI, at least based upon my initial experience with that program. It
seems that at least in this instance, ATI is designed to perform a
*disk-to-disk* clone -- sort of an all or nothing approach. I can't seem to
find a way to *directly* clone from or to individual partitions. Sure, I
understand one can create disk images on removable media of individual
partitions and undertake the cloning process through that means. But the
simplicity and directness of the Ghost way is, to my way of thinking, much
more appealing. But if I'm wrong about this, please enlighten me.
Anna


I can't speak to wht you've seen. I use TI on several machines for
image backup and aheve reimaged new disks. It's about as easy at it
gets. Ghost, and anything Symantec makes, gives me a rash.

The #i issue IMO is USB driver compabibility and there is so much crap
out there that you have to test each machine, and as a backup/recovery
tool the risk is that tool you use won't work on the new machine you
have to restore to. I don't use external drives, or CD/DVD media for
backups. It's all disk-disk or disk-LAN-disk these days. The last
tape drive I bought cost $4000 (Quantum DLT-IV) and is long-since
gone. I expect to evolve to external SATA disks.
 
kurttrail said:
Really? Illegal? Please show us the law or legal precedent that makes
it illegal.

I was wondering if you were awake Kurt :)

The really stupid part is that the OP said absolutely NOTHING concerning
licensing issues.

Steve
 
aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!


Richard Urban said:
OK. Was just wondering, as you confirmed what I had said.

That is one way Anna. But instead of cloning a drive, which takes maximum
space, I would just create a compressed image on the external drive using
Ghost 9.0, Drive Image 7.01, True Image - or one of the other available
programs. With Drive Image and Ghost (at least) you can image multiple
partitions in one process yet restore the partitions selectively, say only
partition C:

In thirteen years of using similar programs I have never used clone except
to directly copy one hard drive to a replacement hard drive. For recovery
purposes I believe that an image is sufficient, and preferable.


Richard:
I am a strong proponent of equipping one's desktop computer with two
removable hard drives and using a disk imaging program such as Ghost to
maintain a near-failsafe backup system by cloning the contents of one drive
to another. Over the years, the organization with which I was associated
with set up thousands of desktop personal computers for individual users and
small businesses with this hardware configuration. To my mind, for a large
number of PC users who use their machines for something more than the most
trivial of tasks, this is as close to an ideal arrangement as one can get
given the present state of PC technology.

Given the relatively huge capacities of hard disk space available today at
nominal costs, saving hard disk space through this or that compression
method is not, in my view, an important consideration when the objective is
to establish & maintain a near-failsafe backup system. Through the use of
straight, no-nonsense cloning methods used by a disk imaging program such as
Ghost, Acronis, etc., one can easily and relatively inexpensively achieve
this objective. And to employ this type of process with removable hard
drives is, to my mind, a most desirable way to go.
Through the use of removable hard drives, there's no need to use media such
as CD/DVDs to store the image for eventual restoration. The cloned drive is,
for all practical purposes, "self-contained", and as such is immediately
bootable. And the added advantage of having at hand a "limitless" number of
hard drives is another significant advantage of equipping one's desktop
computer with removable drives.
Anna
 
But...
Unlike Ghost, it's not a simple process (AFAIK) for ATI to *directly clone*
individual disk partitions (which is precisely the objective of the OP). For
example, he creates three partitions on his USB EHD to hold the contents of
his two desktops and one laptop. Now he wants to clone the contents of one
of his desktop machines to a specific partition created on the EHD
designated to hold those cloned contents. It's a easy matter to do this with
Ghost. One simply selects the partition on his/her destination drive to
receive the clone and that's that. It's simple and it's effective. But not
so with ATI, at least based upon my initial experience with that program. It
seems that at least in this instance, ATI is designed to perform a
*disk-to-disk* clone -- sort of an all or nothing approach. I can't seem to
find a way to *directly* clone from or to individual partitions. Sure, I
understand one can create disk images on removable media of individual
partitions and undertake the cloning process through that means. But the
simplicity and directness of the Ghost way is, to my way of thinking, much
more appealing. But if I'm wrong about this, please enlighten me.
Anna

You're right about that.

But also consider this:

Ghost 9.0 has a problem in that you can't create an image (in the
new drive image format) by booting from the recovery CD. All you can do is
recover. Hence you always have to create the image from within the Windows
environment. Normally that's a good thing, but there can be cases when you
don't want to do that. For example, I once made a backup using Acronis from
within Windows while a real-time data acquistion program was running and it
ended up corrupted. (I had thought it would. Some things are too good to be
true.) Acronis, however, provides you w/ a bootable recovery CD from which
you can also backup. With Ghost, you have to switch to the old command
environment Ghost (less convenient than a full GUI, but much more flexible
w/ exclusions, etc.) and hence the old file format. That's not so bad, but
(I think) you can't later increment that image if you wish.
 
J. S. Pack said:
You're right about that.

But also consider this:

Ghost 9.0 has a problem in that you can't create an image (in the
new drive image format) by booting from the recovery CD. All you can do is
recover. Hence you always have to create the image from within the Windows
environment. Normally that's a good thing, but there can be cases when you
don't want to do that. For example, I once made a backup using Acronis
from
within Windows while a real-time data acquistion program was running and
it
ended up corrupted. (I had thought it would. Some things are too good to
be
true.) Acronis, however, provides you w/ a bootable recovery CD from which
you can also backup. With Ghost, you have to switch to the old command
environment Ghost (less convenient than a full GUI, but much more flexible
w/ exclusions, etc.) and hence the old file format. That's not so bad, but
(I think) you can't later increment that image if you wish.

J. S.
I'm not certain I completely understand the import of your comments, so
forgive me if in my response I don't precisely address them. But allow me to
make the following points...

1. In the context of this discussion -- I, and my clients, are interested in
one thing, and one thing only -- to maintain a failsafe or near-failsafe
backup system of our day-to-day working drives. Nothing else. And we hope to
do so in as simple a way possible and consuming as little time as possible
in backing up and restoring data.

2. By & large we find that we achieve this objective by using a disk imaging
program such as Ghost, to *directly* clone the contents of one hard drive to
another. By so doing, we create, for all practical purposes, a bit-for-bit
copy of our working drive(s). We ordinarily do not create disk images on
media such as CD/DVDs. Our primary interest is disk-to-disk clones and not
incremental backups.

3. In carrying out this objective, most of us use a Ghost bootable floppy
disk or Ghost bootable CD to perform the clone. It's simple, it's reasonably
quick, and most of all -- it's effective. Some of us prefer to use Ghost's
Windows interface to perform the cloning operation. I do not. I prefer to
carry out the cloning operation using the Ghost bootable floppy or bootable
CD for its portability aspects and its simplicity. It's simply my personal
preference.

4. We encourage our users to equip their desktop computers with two
removable hard drives. For a variety of reasons, this hardware arrangement
is, for many, if not most PC users, an ideal one for the flexibility it
provides, especially as it relates to easily maintaining a backup system
involving the disk imaging process I've described. The additional cost
involved in so equipping one's PC with this hardware configuration, while
not trifling, is well within the reach of most users I would think. And the
benefits derived from this arrangement are considerable indeed.

5. For one reason or another, many users prefer to use a second internal
hard drive or (preferably) a external hard drive as the backup drive that
receives the cloned contents of the working drive. While we much prefer that
our users employ the two removable drives arrangement noted above, the Ghost
(or Acronis) cloning process will work with this arrangement.

So, to summarize. Our needs are quite basic. We're solely interested in
backing up and (when necessary) restoring the complete contents of our
day-to-day working drive(s). We want to achieve this objective simply &
effectively. We find we can do so using the disk-to-disk cloning method as
described above.
Anna
 
J. S.
I'm not certain I completely understand the import of your comments, so
forgive me if in my response I don't precisely address them. But allow me to
make the following points...

1. In the context of this discussion -- I, and my clients, are interested in
one thing, and one thing only -- to maintain a failsafe or near-failsafe
backup system of our day-to-day working drives. Nothing else. And we hope to
do so in as simple a way possible and consuming as little time as possible
in backing up and restoring data.

2. By & large we find that we achieve this objective by using a disk imaging
program such as Ghost, to *directly* clone the contents of one hard drive to
another. By so doing, we create, for all practical purposes, a bit-for-bit
copy of our working drive(s). We ordinarily do not create disk images on
media such as CD/DVDs. Our primary interest is disk-to-disk clones and not
incremental backups.

3. In carrying out this objective, most of us use a Ghost bootable floppy
disk or Ghost bootable CD to perform the clone. It's simple, it's reasonably
quick, and most of all -- it's effective. Some of us prefer to use Ghost's
Windows interface to perform the cloning operation. I do not. I prefer to
carry out the cloning operation using the Ghost bootable floppy or bootable
CD for its portability aspects and its simplicity. It's simply my personal
preference.

4. We encourage our users to equip their desktop computers with two
removable hard drives. For a variety of reasons, this hardware arrangement
is, for many, if not most PC users, an ideal one for the flexibility it
provides, especially as it relates to easily maintaining a backup system
involving the disk imaging process I've described. The additional cost
involved in so equipping one's PC with this hardware configuration, while
not trifling, is well within the reach of most users I would think. And the
benefits derived from this arrangement are considerable indeed.

5. For one reason or another, many users prefer to use a second internal
hard drive or (preferably) a external hard drive as the backup drive that
receives the cloned contents of the working drive. While we much prefer that
our users employ the two removable drives arrangement noted above, the Ghost
(or Acronis) cloning process will work with this arrangement.

So, to summarize. Our needs are quite basic. We're solely interested in
backing up and (when necessary) restoring the complete contents of our
day-to-day working drive(s). We want to achieve this objective simply &
effectively. We find we can do so using the disk-to-disk cloning method as
described above.
Anna


Acronis, installed on an XP machine, will image the C drive without
booting to DOS. It has a built-in scheduler and will run unattended.
Your users have to make sure theirapplication files are static.

Recovery needs a boot from a CD but with luck you'll never need to do
this except in fire drills.

IMO you want to put a large disk on a PC on your LAN and image your
clients to the shared disk. This has an obvoious problem of scale and
if you've got more than a few machines you should create a file server
ans set up all the clients to put "Documents" and Settings" on the
file server and just back up the file server, disk-to-disk.

This is a huge topic. Read and reread

http://taobackup.com/

It speaks the truth.
 
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