External Drive Crashing ... AGAIN

[Guest]

ok, just got a 2nd brand new Seagate 250 Gig harddrive. I have it housed in
an external enclosure and have been using fireiwre to transer files back and
forth. I experienced the first crash on the 2ndy day of purchasing the new
hard drive and external enclosure. RAM'ed it and got a new one. A few weeks
later, the new Seagate 250 Gig crashed as well. Downloaded all the Seagate
tools to check harddrive and the physical drive looks ok. Even SMART info
indicates operating temperature of the drive through it's lifespan has been
within normal parameters.

Windows does recognize it as a 250 Gig drive so I don't think it's a size
issue. I have XP Home that came with the notebook (Toshiba) but just in csae,
I also updated the Reg48bitLBA patch to ensure that any drive bigger than 137
gigs is still ok with my early version of XP. My Computer shows I have SP2
already installed.

When the drive crashes, I lost the volume label and it says E:\Local Disk.
Clicking on it in Windows Exploer produces an error message that says:

E:\ is not accesible

The file or directory is corrupted and unreadable.

After a reformat, evertying seems to work and today, it crashed again. More
data loss!

Does anyone know why the external drive keeps crashing? What is causing
this? Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Anna]

ok, just got a 2nd brand new Seagate 250 Gig harddrive. I have it housed
in
an external enclosure and have been using fireiwre to transer files back
and
forth. I experienced the first crash on the 2ndy day of purchasing the new
hard drive and external enclosure. RAM'ed it and got a new one. A few
weeks
later, the new Seagate 250 Gig crashed as well. Downloaded all the Seagate
tools to check harddrive and the physical drive looks ok. Even SMART info
indicates operating temperature of the drive through it's lifespan has
been
within normal parameters.

Windows does recognize it as a 250 Gig drive so I don't think it's a size
issue. I have XP Home that came with the notebook (Toshiba) but just in
csae,
I also updated the Reg48bitLBA patch to ensure that any drive bigger than
137
gigs is still ok with my early version of XP. My Computer shows I have SP2
already installed.

When the drive crashes, I lost the volume label and it says E:\Local Disk.
Clicking on it in Windows Exploer produces an error message that says:

E:\ is not accesible

The file or directory is corrupted and unreadable.

After a reformat, evertying seems to work and today, it crashed again.
More
data loss!

Does anyone know why the external drive keeps crashing? What is causing
this? Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

Bowmah:
From your description it sounds like you've had the identical problem with
this Seagate external HD with two different units. I assume these are USB
devices but I'm not clear whether these are sealed units from Seagate or
you're using your own external HD enclosure. If the latter...

1. Do you have another HD to install in the enclosure to determine if the
problem is with the enclosure itself?

In any event, have you...
a. Plugged the device into a different USB port on your computer? Can you
test the port(s) with other USB devices?
b. If you've connected the device through a USB hub, have you tried
connecting it directly to a USB port on the computer?
c. Tried a different USB cable?
d. Any difference if the device is disconnected at bootup and then connected
following bootup or vice versa?
e. If you remove the HD from the enclosure (assuming it's not a sealed unit)
and install it as an internal secondary drive, can you access its contents
without any problems that way?
f. With the EHD connected, is there anything showing (or not showing) in
Disk Management that may bear upon this problem?
g. Is there a power LED on the device that may give you some indication of a
power problem (flickering or just going on and/or off).
Anna

 

[Dennis Barbier]

And you're sure its not overheating?

 

[Guest]

Hi Anna,

Thank you so much for your reply. Let me answer your questions first.

From your description it sounds like you've had the identical problem with
this Seagate external HD with two different units. I assume these are USB
devices but I'm not clear whether these are sealed units from Seagate or
you're using your own external HD enclosure. If the latter...

Yes, I have purchased a Seagate Harddrive (then got another one after the
first one crashed) and enclosed it on my own using this:

http://www.vantec.com.tw/_en/01_product/03_detail_01overview.php?mainid=6&fid=49&sid=59&id=30

1. Do you have another HD to install in the enclosure to determine if the
problem is with the enclosure itself?

Unfortunately, I do no have another harddrive to test but the case could
definitely be one of the problems as the crashes happened to 2 separate brand
new Seagates.

In any event, have you...
a. Plugged the device into a different USB port on your computer? Can you
test the port(s) with other USB devices?

No, I have used the USB sparingly and have used the firewire connector most
of the time. The transfer rate has been much better with firewire as compared
to USB. I will have to keep testing with USB and see if this problem occurs.

b. If you've connected the device through a USB hub, have you tried
connecting it directly to a USB port on the computer?

It has been connected directly to either the USB or firewire port on my
notebook. (mostly firewire)

c. Tried a different USB cable?

I only have 1 firewire and USB cable. Would a cable cause a HDD crash?

d. Any difference if the device is disconnected at bootup and then connected
following bootup or vice versa?

This is what I am thinking since last night. The last 2 crashes happened
because the drive was plugged in and powerd up and the notebook that it was
plugged into was rebooted. I guess one would never keep an ipod or digital
camera plugged in during reboots. Maybe this is the problem?

e. If you remove the HD from the enclosure (assuming it's not a sealed unit)
and install it as an internal secondary drive, can you access its contents
without any problems that way?

I have plugged the hdd into a PC as a slave and it does not recognize teh
data. But after a reformat, the drive is healthy again.

f. With the EHD connected, is there anything showing (or not showing) in
Disk Management that may bear upon this problem?

Disk Management shows a 232 GB healthy (active) status. The only thing that
is not showing is that it is NTFS. After a reformat and everything works, it
shows NTFS.

g. Is there a power LED on the device that may give you some indication of a
power problem (flickering or just going on and/or off).

Visually, the power indicator seem to be smooth and constant.

I am beginning to think (by memory) that this drives needs to be powered
down before the computer is shutdown / rebooted. At least with the firewire
connection that I have been using. If this is true, it would be pretty
dangerous as it is easy to forget to unplug or power the EHD down before
every reboot. I will have to do more testing with the firewire vs USB
connection. Does anyone know if external cases require a power down before
the computer is shut down?

Guess paying a little extra to have firewire capabilities was not the way to
go.

Once again, thanks Anna for your post!

 

[Guest]

And you're sure its not overheating?

I cannot be absolutely sure as I cannot monitor the temperature via firewire
but I have downloaded the tools from Seagate which reads the drive's SMART
info. Results indicate that nothing seems to have gone beyond the drive's
normal parameters.

 

[Anna]

Hi Anna,

Thank you so much for your reply. Let me answer your questions first.


Yes, I have purchased a Seagate Harddrive (then got another one after the
first one crashed) and enclosed it on my own using this:

http://www.vantec.com.tw/_en/01_product/03_detail_01overview.php?mainid=6&fid=49&sid=59&id=30


Unfortunately, I do no have another harddrive to test but the case could
definitely be one of the problems as the crashes happened to 2 separate
brand
new Seagates.


No, I have used the USB sparingly and have used the firewire connector
most
of the time. The transfer rate has been much better with firewire as
compared
to USB. I will have to keep testing with USB and see if this problem
occurs.


It has been connected directly to either the USB or firewire port on my
notebook. (mostly firewire)


I only have 1 firewire and USB cable. Would a cable cause a HDD crash?


This is what I am thinking since last night. The last 2 crashes happened
because the drive was plugged in and powerd up and the notebook that it
was
plugged into was rebooted. I guess one would never keep an ipod or digital
camera plugged in during reboots. Maybe this is the problem?


I have plugged the hdd into a PC as a slave and it does not recognize teh
data. But after a reformat, the drive is healthy again.


Disk Management shows a 232 GB healthy (active) status. The only thing
that
is not showing is that it is NTFS. After a reformat and everything works,
it
shows NTFS.


Visually, the power indicator seem to be smooth and constant.

I am beginning to think (by memory) that this drives needs to be powered
down before the computer is shutdown / rebooted. At least with the
firewire
connection that I have been using. If this is true, it would be pretty
dangerous as it is easy to forget to unplug or power the EHD down before
every reboot. I will have to do more testing with the firewire vs USB
connection. Does anyone know if external cases require a power down before
the computer is shut down?

Guess paying a little extra to have firewire capabilities was not the way
to
go.

Once again, thanks Anna for your post!

Well you certainly seem to have covered all the bases in trying to diagnose
your problem, or should I say trying to resolve the problem.

From your latest description of the problem it certainly sounds like a
problem with the enclosure especially in view that the problem occurs with
both the USB & Firewire interfaces if I correctly understand you. I would
strongly suggest you contact Vantec for technical support or possibly a RMA
should the unit still be under warranty.

But just to answer your questions...
Connecting another USB device while the external HD is connected should have
no impact on the performance of that latter device. The external HD has an
auxiliary power supply so there's no problem in that area. We have found,
however, that on occasion the XP OS will not recognize the existence of a
USBEHD if it is connected at the time of bootup. If it's disconnected and
then reconnected after bootup, the EHD is then recognized. And to make
matters more puzzling we've also encountered the reverse situation, i.e.,
the system will recognize the USB device *only* if it has been connected at
bootup. Go figure.

Ordinarily the USBEHD need not be powered off/disconnected prior to shutdown
or a reboot. I've had only limited experience with the Firewire interface as
it affects external hard drives, but I can't recall running into any problem
here either.

Anyway, I think at this point your best bet is to contact Vantec and go on
from there.
Anna

 

[Anna]

Bowmah:
See my addendum below re my last message...

Well you certainly seem to have covered all the bases in trying to
diagnose your problem, or should I say trying to resolve the problem.

From your latest description of the problem it certainly sounds like a
problem with the enclosure especially in view that the problem occurs with
both the USB & Firewire interfaces if I correctly understand you. I would
strongly suggest you contact Vantec for technical support or possibly a
RMA should the unit still be under warranty.

But just to answer your questions...
Connecting another USB device while the external HD is connected should
have no impact on the performance of that latter device. The external HD
has an auxiliary power supply so there's no problem in that area. We have
found, however, that on occasion the XP OS will not recognize the
existence of a USBEHD if it is connected at the time of bootup. If it's
disconnected and then reconnected after bootup, the EHD is then
recognized. And to make matters more puzzling we've also encountered the
reverse situation, i.e., the system will recognize the USB device *only*
if it has been connected at bootup. Go figure.

Ordinarily the USBEHD need not be powered off/disconnected prior to
shutdown or a reboot. I've had only limited experience with the Firewire
interface as it affects external hard drives, but I can't recall running
into any problem here either.

Anyway, I think at this point your best bet is to contact Vantec and go on
from there.
Anna

Bowmah:
I should clarify my above remark about not needing to power off/disconnect
the USBEHD prior to shutdown or reboot...

I'm assuming that the default option for "Optimize for quick removal" has
been selected in Device Manager > Disk drives > Policies tab for the USB
device.
Anna

 

[Guest]

Bowmah:

I should clarify my above remark about not needing to power off/disconnect
the USBEHD prior to shutdown or reboot...

I'm assuming that the default option for "Optimize for quick removal" has
been selected in Device Manager > Disk drives > Policies tab for the USB
device.
Anna

I just chekced both USB and Firewire in the Policies and both have been set
to "Optimize for quick removal". But, by switching between the USB and
firewire connections (either one or the other, not simultanesouly), the drive
crashed. I can see it in the Device Manager and also in the see in in
Computer Managaement but no NTFS beside the drive. Going into Windows
Explorer shows a "local Disk" drive and back to unabel to access msg.

So:

1. Either booting up without powering it down is the culprit
or
2. Swithicng between firewie and USB is the culprit

Can you think of why either of these situations would cause the crash?

Time to reformat and back to more testing. This really bites.

 

[Guest]

Hey Anna,

Here is a quick update. When I reboot my notebook with the USB plugged in,
Windows starts up and a little warning box comes out from the systray
indicating that one network drive cannot be connected to. After a few
seconds, it disappears and the External Drive works.

When I reboot with the firewire attached, I get the same warning message
from windows in the Systray, it takes a lot longer to "disappear" and then
the drife shows up in Windows Explorer.

When I have had the crashes, this popup from teh systray stays as windows
cannot recognize the external drive. I am thinking maybe firewire is the
culprit here? Or can it be the case?

What can I test to see where the problem lies. I have sent an email to
Vantec. Prior to purchasing the product, they were quick to respond. After
the sale, no response...

 

[Guest]

ok, quick add on. After I typed my last reply, Windows Explorer can recognize
the drive but the folders within it are not accessbile. Corrupt msg! What the
heck is going on?

 

[Guest]

ok Anna,

I think I have found the problem. Well, at least I can reproduce it now. The
crash happens when I use firewire. If the extarnal harddrive is left on while
Windows Reboots, then the crash happens. If:

- computer is shutdown
- then external drive is powered down
- then windows boots ups fully
- then turning the power on the external harddrive is ok

This makes me think that either the firewire cable is faulty
and/or
firewire external connections cannot be boot up with windows
and/or
external case's firewire connection is causing the crashes

What do you think about this logic? Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Anna]

It's possible of course. But I really think at this point you should be in
touch with Vantec re the problem. Really sounds like a RMA is in order if
the USB interface is still not working properly.
Anna

 

[Guest]

It's possible of course. But I really think at this point you should be in

touch with Vantec re the problem. Really sounds like a RMA is in order if
the USB interface is still not working properly.
Anna

Sorry for all the posts, must be getting confusing. Let me clarify, I have
only been able to reproduce the crashing problem with firewire. USB is ok.

I just emailed Vantec. Let's see if they respond. Thanks for all your help!

 

[Brian K]

I have a Vantec SATA/USB enclosure. It freezes my computer in SATA mode. USB
is OK. Vantec didn't answer any of my email.

 

[Guest]

I have a Vantec SATA/USB enclosure. It freezes my computer in SATA mode.
USB is OK. Vantec didn't answer any of my email.

What do you mean by SATA mode? Does the external case house an SATA drive or
is there an SATA connection from the external case to your computer?

 

[Brian K]

What do you mean by SATA mode? Does the external case house an SATA drive
or
is there an SATA connection from the external case to your computer?

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=15876

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/Vantec Nexstar 3/

At least I can use my spare SATA HD even though I can only reliably use it
in USB mode.

 

[Guest]

Looks like we are in the same position. Paid more to hopefully use a faster
connection than USB 2.0 and are both limited to still using USB. I hope I get
a response from Vantec soon.

 

[Brian K]

Let me know if you get a response.

 

[Guest]

I will come back here and post an update IF I get a response. Chances aren't
good. I got a a response within 48 hours on my pre-sales questions. Not sure
if after sales service is going to be as good. It's been way more than 48
hours since I first contacted them about my problem.

At least when you use your SATA connection, you windows freezes. My firewire
problem crashes the hard rendering all data useless!

Also talked to the local computer store and unfortunately, Vantec was their
best Brand that they carry.

Post back if you hear from Vantec as well.

 

[Brian K]

When using SATA mode it's only large files that cause a freeze. Files larger
than 2 GB. My computer freezes and I have to press the power button to
restart.

Transfer rate with USB2 was 25 MB/sec and with SATA was 47 MB/sec so it
would be nice if SATA worked. I don't think your firewire would be much
better than USB2 but I haven't tried it.