Cleaning up Code Bloat

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chuck Humphrey
  • Start date Start date
C

Chuck Humphrey

I compose most of my web pages in Word. I usually copy that text into
Notepad and then recopy it into a page in FrontPage 2003. The problem
is that I lose formatting, like itals and bold, when I go to and from
Notepad.

I have tried using the new Optimize HTML function in FrontPage 2003,
but it does not do as good a job as going through Notepad. For
instance, <p> coding is left whereas Notepad converts that coding to
less bloated break commands.

How can I better achieve my goal?

For example, is there a way to preserve the formatting of itals and
bold when going through Notepad? Is there a better way to work in
Word to more dramatically reduce code bloat?
Chuck Humphrey
 
Try composing your web pages in FrontPage.

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.
 
I read your post 3 times, and what you're doing is kind of like driving from LA to San Diego via
Yuma Arizona.

fwiw, FP 2003 and the html bloat myth is just that. Html bloat is caused by inexperienced users.

You will be much better off and much less frustrated by simply working in FrontPage from the
beginning.

--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer
 
How is <p> tag more coding than a <br> tag, which requires 2 to equal one <p> tag?

As suggested, create your content directly in FP, not in Word first.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
How is <p> tag more coding than a <br> tag, which requires 2 to equal one <p> tag?

As suggested, create your content directly in FP, not in Word first.


After a </p> there is style coding such as:
</p>
<!--mstheme--></font></td><td valign="top"
width="24"></td><!--msnavigation--><td
valign="top"><!--mstheme--><font face="Times New Roman">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
<font face="Arial Black" size="4"
color="#000080">Introduction</font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">The conclusions in the
chart below...

After a <br> there is no repetition of those 7 or so lines of code.
Am I incorrect in thinking that this is bloated code that will
downgrade my site to some extent when it is read by serach engine
robots?
Chuck Humphrey
 
Yes... as I said in a forum post recently, what amazes me is how often
the people who go on about "the well-known FrontPage code bloat" are
people who have never used FrontPage or even looked at it.

It's an urban myth. Period.

FrontPage doesn't produce any more so-called "code bloat" than
Dreamweaver and, IMO, less than Adobe Go-Live.

If you really want to pare down "code bloat" to zero, go back to using
NotePad for everything. And good luck with that... it will certainly
take care of any of that boring spare time you now have hanging
around...



Steve Easton said:
I read your post 3 times, and what you're doing is kind of like
driving from LA to San Diego via
 
But if you create your content directly in FP and don't use themes, you can avoid all of this extra
code to start with.

The extra code has no impact on your site being indexed, as the major search engines are indexing
your site on what users would see in a browser, not the code in your pages.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
I still prefer to use FP2000, so the following is what I see when using the <p></p> tags:

<p>Site Visitor or Subscriber acknowledges that it does not acquire any ownership rights by
downloading copyrighted material.</p>
<p>Your Community On-Line Network shall have the right at any time to change or discontinue any
aspect or feature of Your Community On-Line Network.</p>

I use no themes, etc.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
So, it's the themes that is the culprit? They offer a nice
alternative to scaling the learning curve of FrontPage and HTML
programming. I am very disappointed that a useful feature touted by
Microsoft is the cause of code bloat.

By the way,

But if you create your content directly in FP and don't use themes, you can avoid all of this extra
code to start with.

The extra code has no impact on your site being indexed, as the major search engines are indexing
your site on what users would see in a browser, not the code in your pages.

Chuck Humphrey
 
FP 2003 applies theme using CSS so there is no html code bloat
- webs from prior versions (themes applied as html) need to be updated and the FP 2003 theme CSS can be streamlined to remove WSS
styles
See http://sbrenjoy.bizland.com/frontpage/themes/newthemes.html

The tags w/ inline styles are User created, not FP created - as in
(p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">

The 24 px cell come from using shared borders
- in FP 2003 look at Dynamic Web Templates


--




| So, it's the themes that is the culprit? They offer a nice
| alternative to scaling the learning curve of FrontPage and HTML
| programming. I am very disappointed that a useful feature touted by
| Microsoft is the cause of code bloat.
|
| By the way,
|
| On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 11:43:06 -0400, "Thomas A. Rowe" <[email protected]>
| wrote:
|
| >But if you create your content directly in FP and don't use themes, you can avoid all of this extra
| >code to start with.
| >
| >The extra code has no impact on your site being indexed, as the major search engines are indexing
| >your site on what users would see in a browser, not the code in your pages.
|
| Chuck Humphrey
 
I generally compose my web page in Wordpad and have a similar problem of dealing with the code bloat when transferring to FP 2000. I am not always at the same computer when I find time to edit my page, sometimes I use wordpad and am considering sticking with it over FP not only because of the annoying bloat but because there are features I need to use that are very simple in notepad or wordpad that I can't locate yet in FP such as the simple tag: <dd>

I am trying to use FP but it is beginning to look futile considering my needs.
 
start over from scratch - do the whole lot in Frontpage.

If you know Word, then you can easily get around Frontpage. it is your
procedure of copying the code from word to notepad to frontpage causing the "code
bloat".
 
<p> is the paragraph tag i.e. two <br><br> it leaves a blank line between
paragraphs. <br> just carriage returns to next line (no blank line inbetween).
 
well, there are plenty of other editors out there, that are more like notepad so
you can hand code, but they have a sort of GUI where you use the menus to insert
common tags etc. On the surface it looks just like note pad.

Anyway if youre web-developing using a web development tool over a word processor
that is not is better.

what is <dd> anyway and why do you need it specifically? You can edit the code
view and insert these codes manually.


George Bus said:
I generally compose my web page in Wordpad and have a similar problem of
dealing with the code bloat when transferring to FP 2000. I am not always at
the same computer when I find time to edit my page, sometimes I use wordpad and
am considering sticking with it over FP not only because of the annoying bloat
but because there are features I need to use that are very simple in notepad or
 
Thank you Andrew. I suppose my main problem is that I use more than one computer in different locations and some of them do not have FP.

If, therefore, I want to work on my page I must use notepad or wordpad. With the code bloat from FP, which shows up in notepad, it takes more time to find and insert my data, which is usually text. Without the bloat the editing is much quicker.
If you like you may look at my site and check the "source"
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~daytrivia
 
FP doesn't create code errors like you have created
The link at the top in the head section is illegal html

<html> <head>
<a href="http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~daytrivia/about.html">About Day Trivia </a>
<title> Day Trivia: Births, deaths, battles, trivia </title>

- move it inside the real <body> tag

The script you pasted starting with
<!-- STEP ONE:
thru
<!-- Script Size: 1.00 KB -->
Should not have the <BODY> tag in the script and belongs after your real body tag (<body bgcolor="#FFCC99">)

Perhaps if you let FP manage your code you might learn some html (-;
--




| Thank you Andrew. I suppose my main problem is that I use more than one computer in different locations and some of them do not
have FP.
|
| If, therefore, I want to work on my page I must use notepad or wordpad. With the code bloat from FP, which shows up in notepad,
it takes more time to find and insert my data, which is usually text. Without the bloat the editing is much quicker.
| If you like you may look at my site and check the "source"
| http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~daytrivia
|
|
| "Andrew Murray" wrote:
|
| > start over from scratch - do the whole lot in Frontpage.
| >
| > If you know Word, then you can easily get around Frontpage. it is your
| > procedure of copying the code from word to notepad to frontpage causing the "code
| > bloat".
| >
| > | > > I compose most of my web pages in Word. I usually copy that text into
| > > Notepad and then recopy it into a page in FrontPage 2003. The problem
| > > is that I lose formatting, like itals and bold, when I go to and from
| > > Notepad.
| > >
| > > I have tried using the new Optimize HTML function in FrontPage 2003,
| > > but it does not do as good a job as going through Notepad. For
| > > instance, <p> coding is left whereas Notepad converts that coding to
| > > less bloated break commands.
| > >
| > > How can I better achieve my goal?
| > >
| > > For example, is there a way to preserve the formatting of itals and
| > > bold when going through Notepad? Is there a better way to work in
| > > Word to more dramatically reduce code bloat?
| > > Chuck Humphrey
| >
| >
| >
 
Thank you Sefan. I still need to use wordpad for on order to work on my
page. I appreciate the info and I do not mind learning a thing or two about
writing code.
 
You should not be using 3rd party tools (like WordPad) w/ FP web site pages
- they will corrupt the FP site
Use Code/Html View in FP, or if you really like WP, assign it as an editor in FP (Tools Options Configure Editors) and Do Not use
any FP design time elements (like themes, shared borders, nav bars, etc)

--




| Thank you Sefan. I still need to use wordpad for on order to work on my
| page. I appreciate the info and I do not mind learning a thing or two about
| writing code.
|
| "Stefan B Rusynko" wrote:
|
| > FP doesn't create code errors like you have created
| > The link at the top in the head section is illegal html
| >
| > <html> <head>
| > <a href="http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~daytrivia/about.html">About Day Trivia </a>
| > <title> Day Trivia: Births, deaths, battles, trivia </title>
| >
| > - move it inside the real <body> tag
| >
| > The script you pasted starting with
| > <!-- STEP ONE:
| > thru
| > <!-- Script Size: 1.00 KB -->
| > Should not have the <BODY> tag in the script and belongs after your real body tag (<body bgcolor="#FFCC99">)
| >
| > Perhaps if you let FP manage your code you might learn some html (-;
| > --
| >
| > _____________________________________________
| > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > _____________________________________________
| >
| >
| > | Thank you Andrew. I suppose my main problem is that I use more than one computer in different locations and some of them do
not
| > have FP.
| > |
| > | If, therefore, I want to work on my page I must use notepad or wordpad. With the code bloat from FP, which shows up in
notepad,
| > it takes more time to find and insert my data, which is usually text. Without the bloat the editing is much quicker.
| > | If you like you may look at my site and check the "source"
| > | http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~daytrivia
| > |
| > |
| > | "Andrew Murray" wrote:
| > |
| > | > start over from scratch - do the whole lot in Frontpage.
| > | >
| > | > If you know Word, then you can easily get around Frontpage. it is your
| > | > procedure of copying the code from word to notepad to frontpage causing the "code
| > | > bloat".
| > | >
| > | > | > | > > I compose most of my web pages in Word. I usually copy that text into
| > | > > Notepad and then recopy it into a page in FrontPage 2003. The problem
| > | > > is that I lose formatting, like itals and bold, when I go to and from
| > | > > Notepad.
| > | > >
| > | > > I have tried using the new Optimize HTML function in FrontPage 2003,
| > | > > but it does not do as good a job as going through Notepad. For
| > | > > instance, <p> coding is left whereas Notepad converts that coding to
| > | > > less bloated break commands.
| > | > >
| > | > > How can I better achieve my goal?
| > | > >
| > | > > For example, is there a way to preserve the formatting of itals and
| > | > > bold when going through Notepad? Is there a better way to work in
| > | > > Word to more dramatically reduce code bloat?
| > | > > Chuck Humphrey
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| >
| >
| >
 

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