Building a system

  • Thread starter Thread starter Howard Kaikow
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Howard Kaikow

If you were building a system today:

1. Would you insist on a mobo that had PCI Express, and no AGP slot, or
would you stick with PCI and AGP?

2. Would you choose a mobo that has firewire, but no integrated graphics, or
would you choose a mobo with firewire and no integrated graphics?
 
Howard said:
If you were building a system today:

1. Would you insist on a mobo that had PCI Express, and no AGP slot, or
would you stick with PCI and AGP?
Click to expand...

I stuck with PCI/AGP. Cheaper, and my take on it is that by the
time there's anything out that will really take advantage of
PCI-X, it'll be time to upgrade anyway...

YMMV, of course.
 
Howard Kaikow said:
If you were building a system today:
1. Would you insist on a mobo that had PCI Express, and no AGP
slot, or would you stick with PCI and AGP?
Click to expand...

I think that would depend on whether there are real-life current
advantages to PCI express video cards, or whether the main board
will last long enough to take advantage of upcoming PCI express
cards.

Maybe that depends also on how well Windows XP handles upcoming PCI
express video cards and whatever other PCI express devices.
2. Would you choose a mobo that has firewire, but no integrated
graphics, or would you choose a mobo with firewire and no
integrated graphics?
Click to expand...

If you mean vice versa, I prefer no integrated graphics, for gaming.
I might prefer neither FireWire or integrated graphics. If there are
smooth USB WebCams (at least 20 frames per second at 640 x 480),
then I probably don't really need FireWire.

Personally, I don't really like either of your choices.

Good luck and have fun.
 
it is simple, yes pci express is the way to go with a new system.
Firewire, if not on the board can be purchased as a pci card for about 20
dollars.
If you plan to play games, integrated graphics are out, btw that is why you
get the pci express. The video cards for pcix are fairly reasonable.
 
BigJIm said:
it is simple, yes pci express is the way to go with a new system.
Click to expand...

How is it simple?

Does the same speed system cost the same?

New generation devices tend to change/update quickly. Why not let
the masses do the beta testing.
 
It'll probably be at least 12-24 months before there's really any
worthwhile software designed to take advantage of PCI-Express, and it
doesn't seem like the technology makes a very significant difference
with current games. I choose to go with a normal PCI/AGP motherboard (I
just bought a new one last week), and that's what I reccomend. By the
time any worthwhile PCI-X software is out, the motherboards will have
only gotten cheaper.
As far as the Firewire/on-board graphics goes, that's a no brainer.
I'd never use on-board graphics hardware unless the machine I was
building was simply for office use (i.e. word processing) where it
whouldn't make any difference. Get the Firewire equipped mobo and buy
a decent video card. As a side note though, I was able to pick up a
PC/MAC compatible Belkin Firewire card for like $29 at a Circuit City.
So it's not an expensive add-on.
 
Howard Kaikow said:
If you were building a system today:

1. Would you insist on a mobo that had PCI Express, and no AGP slot, or
would you stick with PCI and AGP?
Click to expand...

Makes no difference right now. While you MIGHT get higher performance from
PCI-Ex, I don't think current implementations are mature enough to worry about
it. Look for a MoBo that has everything you want.

2. Would you choose a mobo that has firewire, but no integrated graphics, or
would you choose a mobo with firewire and no integrated graphics?
Click to expand...

Firewire yes. Integrated graphics no.

Why would you spend $$ on PCI-EX and then worry about integrated graphics?
 
Howard said:
If you were building a system today:

1. Would you insist on a mobo that had PCI Express, and no AGP slot,
or would you stick with PCI and AGP?
Click to expand...

PCI Express, no AGP. Why bother with legacy? Not only would I go PCI
Express, but I'd go SLI. I wouldn't necessarily use the slot, but leave
the option open for the future.
2. Would you choose a mobo that has firewire, but no integrated
graphics, or would you choose a mobo with firewire and no integrated
graphics?
Click to expand...

Didn't you just say the same thing twice? Anyway, forget integrated
graphics. They suck. Firewire has limited usefulness to me, because I
don't do the digital video editing, but maybe I'll take it up
someday...
 
I think PCI x is here to stay. AGP was upgraded from 1x 2x 4x 8x and as most
of us know there is not much difference between 4x and 8x. The PCIx slot
will run 16x so I think it is worth the investment. The PCIx video cards are
cheaper than AGP of the same speed. You can hang on if you want to but the
boards are all going to be PCIX in the future. I like many change boards
ever couple of years but I hate to upgrade my video.
 
BigJIm said:
I think PCI x is here to stay. AGP was upgraded from 1x 2x 4x 8x and
as most of us know there is not much difference between 4x and 8x. The
PCIx slot will run 16x so I think it is worth the investment. The PCIx
video cards are cheaper than AGP of the same speed. You can hang on if
you want to but the boards are all going to be PCIX in the future. I
like many change boards ever couple of years but I hate to upgrade my
video.
Click to expand...

I agree, except that you use the wrong terminology. PCI-X slots are not
PCI Express slots. PCI Express is abbreviated PCI-e. PCI-X slots are
longer PCI type slots that run at frequencies other than the standard
PCI's 33 MHz. You'll tend to find them on server/workstation boards.
Here's a board with a single PCI-e 8X slot, one PCI slot, and several
different PCI-X slots:

http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderi7520.html
 
Ruel Smith said:
PCI Express, no AGP. Why bother with legacy?
Click to expand...

Because you can get a faster system for less money?

Apparently PCI express mainboards are scarce and relatively very
high-priced. Looks like the PCI express video cards are for users
who recently bought new systems and want to upgrade their video.
Makers probably skimp on the video card to help make up for it. It
looks like the classic hype & bad value upgrade deal.

I wouldn't spend that much on a beta mainboard. Let the masses test
them.
 
If you were building a system today:

1. Would you insist on a mobo that had PCI Express, and no AGP slot, or
would you stick with PCI and AGP?

2. Would you choose a mobo that has firewire, but no integrated graphics, or
would you choose a mobo with firewire and no integrated graphics?
Click to expand...

It might depend how long you intent to keep the machine. If you are
going to actively upgrade it over 2 years, then get another system
then, I'd say get a "legacy" ATX/PCI/AGP system now, and get a PCie/X
system next cycle if/when that format has matured.
 
John said:
Because you can get a faster system for less money?
Click to expand...

In the short term, yes. However, they'll stop making new model AGP video
cards before long, and you'll be S.O.L.. If you get PCI-e, you'll be
assured that 2 years down the road, when nVidia or ATi introduce their
latest/greatest generations of video cards, they'll make one for your
board and you can upgrade.
Apparently PCI express mainboards are scarce and relatively very
high-priced. Looks like the PCI express video cards are for users
who recently bought new systems and want to upgrade their video.
Makers probably skimp on the video card to help make up for it. It
looks like the classic hype & bad value upgrade deal.
Click to expand...

Considering that the AGP version of the 6600GT cards are actually slower
than the PCI-e versions, I think your logic is backward.
I wouldn't spend that much on a beta mainboard. Let the masses test
them.
Click to expand...

Maybe. However, Intel boards have probably seen at least one revision
since being introduced. Maybe not so for the AMD boards.

Personally, I'd still go PCI-e, and no AGP. Why buy something that'll be
a dinosaur in another year? Technology tends to leave standards behind,
and AGP is headed for the same fate as ISO cards.
 
<<Personally, I'd still go PCI-e, and no AGP. Why buy something that'll
be
a dinosaur in another year?>>

It'll be longer than a year. 8x AGP is still the high performance
standard for most applications, and PCI-e is doing very little with
current programs to make it worthwhile. In 2 years when pci-e is really
worth buying into, many of us will be buying new mobos anyway, and
we'll be able to get them for $100 or less.
 
It'll be longer than a year. 8x AGP is still the high performance
standard for most applications, and PCI-e is doing very little with
current programs to make it worthwhile. In 2 years when pci-e is really
worth buying into, many of us will be buying new mobos anyway, and
we'll be able to get them for $100 or less.
Click to expand...

One of my goals in building the system is to NOT ever change the mobo, only
ADD drives/cards.

So, in those circumstances, it seems that buying the latest mobo is best.
 
I guess that is referring to DirectX (or other software) application
to the new hardware.
One of my goals in building the system is to NOT ever change the
mobo, only ADD drives/cards.
So, in those circumstances, it seems that buying the latest mobo is
best.
Click to expand...

If new technology arrived on the scene completely developed, that
would be a good conclusion. But in fact the first versions of
software or hardware always have bugs. You probably know that about
software, but it's just as true about electronics hardware. Not only
bugs, but they are not fully developed. The first PCI express
mainboards will last shorter and perform poorer than subsequent,
more developed versions.

Before you buy, look for credible evaluations here on Usenet. If you
don't find any, then it hasn't been around long enough.

If it just feels good, go for it. In a couple of years, please
report back on how things went.

Whatever you do, have fun with it.
 
<<One of my goals in building the system is to NOT ever change the
mobo, only
ADD drives/cards. >>

Well then make sure you're okay with the idea of not being able to buy
into whatever technologies come into play in the 2 years after you buy
the mobo. AGP and PCI slots get faster, eventually PCI-e will evolve
too, and newer high end cards will only utilize the newer standard. The
mobo may be the one piece you can "sit on" the longest but it'll
eventually need replacment. The upside is, you'll probably be able to
get the mobo for $70 by the time you buy a new one.
 
John said:
If new technology arrived on the scene completely developed, that
would be a good conclusion. But in fact the first versions of
software or hardware always have bugs. You probably know that about
software, but it's just as true about electronics hardware. Not only
bugs, but they are not fully developed. The first PCI express
mainboards will last shorter and perform poorer than subsequent,
more developed versions.
Click to expand...

While that may be true, Intel based boards have been using PCI-e for about a
year now, and boards have seen revisions already. I assume that most bugs
have been stamped out, by now. Now, Via has had Intel PCI-e chipsets for
quite awhile now, and have recently released AMD chipsets and they are very
good at releasing drivers to stamp out problems with their chipsets. I'm
under assumption that they've ironed out any problems with the Intel
chipsets, and have much better implementations of the standard in the AMD
chipsets than the Intel chipsets received in the first batch.

That's not saying that there won't continue to be improvements, but it's not
like people are jumping onto something totally new and untested. PCI-e has
been around for a little while now, and should be very stable.
 
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