Beware of Diskeeper10 Pro

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clintonG

This software is really FUBAR. Its taken over an XP Pro machine using
99-100% CPU for three days going into the 4th day on a measly 80Gb disk
recently installed with no fragmentation that I wanted to reorganize the
files
and directories. Their support is good for sh!t too, they have no forums and
they doesn't answer mail.
 
Try changing the Defragmentation Options to a lower priority. I've been
using this product in my office ever since version 8 and have about 30 sites
that use this with no ill effects.

Set it's schedule. Don't let it run minimized in the task bar. This will
chew up CPU time. However, if you adjust the CPU priority I suggested avoe,
you should see an improvement.

Also, try allowing DK to capture "Performance Data" AND let it change the
size of the MFT. The MFT is basically akin to the FAT, but is far more
complex. DK will adjust the size of the MFT based on it's statistical
metrics. Actually, it will adjust both copies.

When you change the MFT size (and allow performance metrics to be gathered),
it will perform a "REAL TIME" defrag on the next startup and thereby
eliminating (minimizing) CPU use.

Hmmm...
 
Many thanks for your tips Wiley.

<%= Clinton




Wiley Coyote - N2K said:
Try changing the Defragmentation Options to a lower priority. I've been
using this product in my office ever since version 8 and have about 30
sites that use this with no ill effects.

Set it's schedule. Don't let it run minimized in the task bar. This will
chew up CPU time. However, if you adjust the CPU priority I suggested
avoe, you should see an improvement.

Also, try allowing DK to capture "Performance Data" AND let it change the
size of the MFT. The MFT is basically akin to the FAT, but is far more
complex. DK will adjust the size of the MFT based on it's statistical
metrics. Actually, it will adjust both copies.

When you change the MFT size (and allow performance metrics to be
gathered), it will perform a "REAL TIME" defrag on the next startup and
thereby eliminating (minimizing) CPU use.

Hmmm...
Click to expand...
 
I've been in the habit of killing the paging file on c: locating it on a
second drive that exists on its own channel and allowing Windows to manage
the size. Thus, DK does not fool around with that.

During Frag Shield Configuration MFT is currently set to "Do not configure
on this volume" for both volumes on this machine. Your saying I should have
chosen the other selection to allow Frag Shield to compute the size of the
MFT and DK would then manage the MFT.

I can't reset Frag Shield at its current status of 83% completion though can
i? And then even more worrisome once this job is done what you say infers
I'll have to reconfigure Frag Shiled to resize the MFT so DK can then manage
the MFT but I would also have to run this all over again and how many days
will the machine continue to be virtually unusable?

I read about the Defragmentation Option priorities in the help file but I
don't see where to change the value at the moment and again, the current job
is at 83% and my whole bitch is about how many days I have into it at this
point only to what outcome? Repeating it all?

<%= Clinton

..
 
Okay, (trust me on this). Cancel the current operation, it won't hurt or
harm anything because FragShield does a "Look Ahead - Write Behind". What
this means is that DK (and the OS) reads the data, writes to the SWAPFILE
(little known fact, indeed 90% of disk bound data goes to the swapfile 1st -
it's a NIX/NT thing), then when the OS is idle (yeah right...) the data is
actually writtent to the appropriate MFT entry. BTW: Data on an NTFS volume
is not written like a FAT (FAT32) system, that is to the file directly!

So, with that in mind cancelling the operation will cause no harm. If you
are unsure about this, try this. Select a dir that has a lot of files (make
one up and copy say, 1000 files to it), then change the permisssions (NTFS)
to everyone:FC. Watch the progress window. It will complete, then WATCH THE
DRIVE! It will twitter and flutter for some period of time. That is the OS
actually copying the data to the the MFT file entry.

Anyway I digress (ramble...).

So, on to the next item. Once you configure FragShield to analyze (and/or
change) the MFT entry, this is one ONCE only. Not every time.

To config DK for FERAG Options, goto "Set Degramentation Priority" AND "Set
Defragmentation Method".

In Defrag Priority, set it to LOW (unless you are using Set it and Forget
it - but that doesn't seem to be the case).

Next, Fragmentation Method, set it to "Quick Defrag".

Under "Set Boot Time Fragmentation", make sure that you have "Defrag Page
File" checked. This will be done only once in FULL AGGESSIVE MODE for each
drive that you configure. Everytime you reboot, DK will look at its metrics
to determine if it needs to do a "FULL DEFRAG". Not likely after the fiest
kick, as I've never seen this occur unless you have a file server with
thousands of files that move and get modified.

Next (yup, not quite done), click on "Set Performance Data Options", then
OK. This is the bad boy that starts the "Metrics" collection. This is done
one time in agressive mode, thereafter it's pretty passive.

Last, click "Configure MFT/Paging File...". Scroll down to ALL OF YOUR
DRIVES and enable! This is important because of the issue I mentioned above
at the opening. In any case, I would suggest doing this when the system is
expected to be idle - it could take an hour on a 400GB drive with 2GB ram,
when the drive is "BADLY" fragmented. That has been my experience.

I hope this helps, and believe me, ONE HIT WILL DO MANY WANDERS.

I am not a dealer, VAR or involded with DK in any fashion, but it is pretty
much the best I've used.

If you like, please feel free to email me directly so as not to chew up too
much of this post.

G'day,

Wiley.
 
clintonG said:
This software is really FUBAR. Its taken over an XP Pro machine using
99-100% CPU for three days going into the 4th day on a measly 80Gb disk
recently installed with no fragmentation that I wanted to reorganize the
files
and directories. Their support is good for sh!t too, they have no forums and
they doesn't answer mail.
Click to expand...

One does not need third party defrag apps. Guess you got what you
wanted.
 
Xcuse me. Are you suggesting that NT's Defrag is the better of ANY solution?
Let us remember that NT's defrag is a 3rd party SUB-system, much like NT
backup (which was Backup Exec).

Ooops; hope I didn't affend, that may be another of those built in goddies
that supercede 3rd party solutions.

Hmmm. wonder where we'd be with out MS licensing and using Citrix
technolgies (Mutli-Win etc). And least we forget, let's look at these
technolgoies (which MS has incorporated into RDP and Remote Desktop):

a.. Jetro Platforms' CockpIT / BoostIT (Multi-Win layer used for
authentication),
a.. Tarantella Secure Global Desktop / Terminal Server Edition (developed
3rd party and used by RDP/Remote Desktop Connection services),
a.. DAT Panther (used by NTLSA for security credential impersonation),
a.. Ericom PowerTerm WebConnect (need I go on?)
a.. HOBLink JWT (used for Multi-threaded service impersonation and OH YEAH,
PCanyWhere, Carbon Copy...)

BTW: I am not a huge advocate of MS. I am simply replying to a post here,
AND these posts are frankly here for the Betterment and Benefit of those
that post.

Just a thought and oh yeah...

I do sincerely beg to differ...
 
Wiley said:
Xcuse me. Are you suggesting that NT's Defrag is the better of ANY solution?
Click to expand...

People who say "solution" wear a tie and dont actually work hands on. XP
defrag is all you need. Any more is a waste of money.
 
People who say "solution" wear a tie and dont actually work hands on. XP
defrag is all you need. Any more is a waste of money.
Click to expand...

Strange, I use the world Solution all the time and yet I also see many
instances where the built-in Defrag solutions for XP, 2000, Server 2000,
Server 2003, Server SBS2003 is not enough. People that broad-sweeping
statements like yours don't get out in the field enough.
 
If you look at the entire thread, you will note that I was tryning to end
the discussion thread from Plato.

To suggest that I don't have field experience is absolute silliness. I kinda
think 22 years is pretty much solid.
 
Thanks again Wiley. I've printed out your last reply. I'm going to trust you
:-) and implement your recommendations. I'm into the 4th day and its only
85% through as I had it setup to run the job.

I also appreciate the offer to mail direct but let's hang here -- as you
said yourself -- what gets discussed and revealed can help others -- even
the dummies who claim what we're doing is a waste of money.

The fact is -- its time that is money-- and I know the version of Diskeeper
that comes OOTB with XP Pro is insufficient. I have thousands of directories
and files on this particular machine and running Visual Studio drags to a
crawl. I don't consider a 25-40 second file seek my idea of efficiency. Even
IE has dragged to a crawl lately taking as long or longer to launch than the
dead dog Firefox. What's confusing is this disk is a recent build. There's
no fragmentation on it, zero, nada, well, actually one file in the MFT as
reported by DK. I think its the large number of directories and files that
has bogged the machine down.

I'm looking to get some time back even if I have to spend some money which I
will do if this trial period of DK Pro works out and improves system
performance.
 
Reading what you say below reminds me of machines that slow down
because there are too many temporary files.Try this:

Boot into Safe Mode.
Search for All Files & Folders.
In the search box type: *.tmp,*.chk,~*.*
Set the More Advanced Options to look in hidden files & folders.
Hit Go.

When the search has finished, select all found files and hit delete.

Robin
 
One other little thing that may help.

Try to flatten the directories out if you can. By this I mean instead of say
10 levels deep inside of 4 or 5 levels, try to lessen the number of
directories. I seem to recall reading somewhere (perhaps in one of my
trainers manuals) that this may affect NT's file management.

Ex:
dir1\files\dir2\more files\dir3\even more\dir4\file and files and
files\DIRX\MORE etc.

Perhaps this:
dir1\files\dir2\more files
move dir4 to the root
then move dir3 to the root

Don't know how practicle and like I say, I believe I saw this somewhere.
Can't recall exactly, but I'll look around to confirm and post here.

WIley.
 
Good point. One in particluar is the %winroot%\temp folder which does tend
to get a lot of junk in it. Also, it's always (in my opinion) a good idea to
do a disk cleanup prior to a major defrag.

Go into IE and clean it up as well (cookies, history etc. Most often with
history, if I want to keep something I move it to a temp folder, cleanup IE,
then move it back).

Reading what you say below reminds me of machines that slow down
because there are too many temporary files.Try this:

Boot into Safe Mode.
Search for All Files & Folders.
In the search box type: *.tmp,*.chk,~*.*
Set the More Advanced Options to look in hidden files & folders.
Hit Go.

When the search has finished, select all found files and hit delete.

Robin
 
try PerfectDisk, it just works! and Very Well!

---

Some folks are obsessed re: defragging (myself included), they're
overthinking things really. Yes, it's true that the very first defrag you
do on a system will make a BIG diffrence, and you should defrag
occasionally after that (say monthly or every other month). But
subsequent defrags really don't accomplish very much (performance wise).

XP's built-in "boot and app-launch optimize defrag", which by default
occurs every few days when the machine is idle, does more to speed up a
system than anything previously avail on Windows, and should be "good
enough" for most everyone (after that first full-defrag, that is).
 
I did a few quick googles and msn searches and found many articles
discussing flattenting directories. Here is a quick link that discusses some
of the tools and caveates.

Hope it helps:
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=flatten+directory

Reading what you say below reminds me of machines that slow down
because there are too many temporary files.Try this:

Boot into Safe Mode.
Search for All Files & Folders.
In the search box type: *.tmp,*.chk,~*.*
Set the More Advanced Options to look in hidden files & folders.
Hit Go.

When the search has finished, select all found files and hit delete.

Robin
 
Leythos said:
Strange, I use the world Solution all the time and yet I also see many
instances where the built-in Defrag solutions for XP, 2000, Server 2000,
Server 2003, Server SBS2003 is not enough. People that broad-sweeping
statements like yours don't get out in the field enough.
Click to expand...

And what about people who make broad sweeping statements like yours?
 
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