All good things must come to an end...

  • Thread starter Thread starter ju.c
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ju.c

The worst lesson of life is that all good things must come to an end.

Goodbye everybody!


ju.c
 
Shall we send flowers or...?

PS: Hopefully you'll learn to pay closer attention in your next life (unless
you're a bug).

PPS: Take the ghosts with you, too
 
ju.c said:
The worst lesson of life is that all good things must come to an end.

Goodbye everybody!


ju.c
Click to expand...


I don't have a schedule, but this group is not on the 6/1 chopping block.
 
ju.c said:
The worst lesson of life is that all good things must come to an end.
Goodbye everybody!
Click to expand...

Your choice. The rest of us will continue posting here in this same
newsgroup long after Microsoft has dropped their NNTP server and killed
off their webnews gateway to Usenet.
 
VanguardLH said:
Your choice. The rest of us will continue posting here in this same
newsgroup long after Microsoft has dropped their NNTP server and
killed off their webnews gateway to Usenet.
Click to expand...

+1
 
Bruce wrote on Mon, 31 May 2010 21:48:33 -0700:

I don't have a schedule, but this group is not on the 6/1 chopping
block.
Click to expand...

I read your post on news.eternal-september.org and I wonder what is the
MS schedule for trying to remove m.p. groups? M.p.excel.charting, .
...misc and m.p.outlookexpress.general on msnews.microsoft.com all have
posts dated 6/1/10

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
 
VanguardLH said:
Your choice. The rest of us will continue posting here in this same
newsgroup long after Microsoft has dropped their NNTP server and killed
off their webnews gateway to Usenet.
Click to expand...

"You don't need or use this anymore. And just to be sure, we're going
to make it as difficult as possible for you to use this anymore. Then,
when people stop using it because we've made it next-to-impossible and
too obscure for the average person to keep using it, we'll have proven
how right we were that nobody needs or uses it anymore."

NNTP is robust and does so much that web-based forums simply can't do,
including sorting at the click of a button, and having easy-to-follow
multi-threaded "conversations" (Google has killed the word "thread", sorry.)

*sigh*

It's all that messy disruptive "free speech" that really works against
the perfectly-fine very-usable NNTP.

Do go thank the AG of N.Y. for that very first tipped domino -- 9 bits
of porn over thousands of newsgroups causing all the major ISPs to drop
their news servers, followed on by corporations concluding that since
Usenet is "dead" (or, more aptly, slain) newsgroups have become
irrelevant now that they are so difficult for the average person to access.
 
DE said:
NNTP is robust and does so much that web-based forums simply can't do,
including sorting at the click of a button, and having easy-to-follow
multi-threaded "conversations" (Google has killed the word "thread", sorry.)

*sigh*

It's all that messy disruptive "free speech" that really works against
the perfectly-fine very-usable NNTP.

Do go thank the AG of N.Y. for that very first tipped domino -- 9 bits
of porn over thousands of newsgroups causing all the major ISPs to drop
their news servers, followed on by corporations concluding that since
Usenet is "dead" (or, more aptly, slain) newsgroups have become
irrelevant now that they are so difficult for the average person to access.
Click to expand...

The commercial NSPs never went away regardless of the NY porn case
trying to make an NSP responsible for the content fed through their pipe
rather than attacking the sources. The ISPs dropped their newsgroups
service because now they had an *excuse* by pretending to be scared.
They would've dropped newsgroups anyway but didn't want to look like the
bad guy. They don't make any money by providing Usenet access. Yes,
some customers claimed they would leave their ISP when that ISP dropped
newsgroups but that was a vacuous threat that never was realized (or in
such tiny numbers that the flux in new and leaving customers swamped any
change due to customers leaving because of losing newsgroups). It
either cost the ISP to continue operating the resources and consuming
the manpower to provide those newsgroups or in the cost to contract out
that service to an outside provider (e.g., Giganews, Highwinds).

With the ISP not generating any perceivable revenue from providing
Usenet access, it was an easy decision to drop that service. At one
time, even major ISPs gave a shell account to their customers so those
customers could login and do their own maintainence commands to, for
example, fix their own mailbox. Since their customers became
increasingly ignorant on how to perform any of those operations and as
the number of customers using a shell account became tiny, it wasn't
worth the resources to provide the shell nor the cost of their tech
support to fix what their shell-using customers screwed up.

It was an inevitable choice by ISPs to drop a service that generated no
revenue and would result in a miniscule loss of customers. They had
nothing to lose. But they really enjoyed being able to hide behind the
"We protect you" mask by citing the NY porn case. Those that continue
generating revenue from Usenet never went away. They're still making
money. The free NSPs didn't have any concern about the porn excuse
because they didn't carry the binary groups, anyway. Without the binary
groups, the commercial NSPs couldn't stay in business (well, definitely
not at their current pricing levels).
 
VanguardLH said:
DE wrote:
Click to expand...
Without the binary groups, the commercial NSPs couldn't
stay in business (well, definitely not at their current pricing levels).
Click to expand...

Of course that's only true for those ISPs that rely on M$-based NNTP
servers.

Setting-up and operating a Unix/Linux NNTP server, regardless of number of
newsgroups, is trivial. The only issue there is storage capacity for the
past x days, and the cost of that is also currently trivial.
 
Greg said:
Of course that's only true for those ISPs that rely on M$-based NNTP
servers.

Setting-up and operating a Unix/Linux NNTP server, regardless of number of
newsgroups, is trivial. The only issue there is storage capacity for the
past x days, and the cost of that is also currently trivial.
Click to expand...

Of course the high speed lines and the static addresses are also free...
everything Linux is free when someone else pays...
 
Greg said:
Of course that's only true for those ISPs that rely on M$-based NNTP
servers.

Setting-up and operating a Unix/Linux NNTP server, regardless of number of
newsgroups, is trivial. The only issue there is storage capacity for the
past x days, and the cost of that is also currently trivial.
Click to expand...

Disk space is trivial? Do you realize how much disk space is required
to provide for a retention of, say, half a year for all those binary
newsgroups? Oh, and you must think that bandwidth is trivial in that
every NSP has an infinitely size pipe to their servers without any
concern over having to refuse connections or severely throttling the
connections. Both disk space and bandwidth is limited. Getting more
costs more. Yeah, it's trivial to you because you aren't the one
forking out the money for both. Also, it isn't just linear disk space
on one server but having to get and setup RAID to allow hot-swapping and
hardware recovery along with redundant servers to provide service
recovery. And then you have all those backups in case the hardware and
redundant hosts still fail.

When I'm speaking of commercial NSPs, I'm certainly not talking about
someone setting up a Linux host in their basement connected using a
limited bandwidth with no hardware or service recovery.
 
VanguardLH said:
Disk space is trivial? Do you realize how much disk space is required
to provide for a retention of, say, half a year for all those binary
newsgroups? Oh, and you must think that bandwidth is trivial in that
every NSP has an infinitely size pipe to their servers without any
concern over having to refuse connections or severely throttling the
connections. Both disk space and bandwidth is limited. Getting more
costs more. Yeah, it's trivial to you because you aren't the one
forking out the money for both. Also, it isn't just linear disk space
on one server but having to get and setup RAID to allow hot-swapping and
hardware recovery along with redundant servers to provide service
recovery. And then you have all those backups in case the hardware and
redundant hosts still fail.

When I'm speaking of commercial NSPs, I'm certainly not talking about
someone setting up a Linux host in their basement connected using a
limited bandwidth with no hardware or service recovery.
Click to expand...

http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=1814

"During September 2008, Giganews completed storage upgrades which increased
retention levels to 240 days," Giganews reports. "Shortly thereafter,
Giganews' upload traffic jumped to a sustained level averaging well over
400 megabits per second, representing more than 4.3 terabytes of new user
generated content and discussions per day. Giganews has seen steady upload
growth throughout the decade, but the pace following the recent storage
upgrade exceeded all expectations."

http://www.giganews.com/news/article/newsfeed-growth.html

If we stored 4.3 terabytes per day, for 240 days, that would be
roughly 1000 TB, or (500) 2TB hard drives worth of storage.

Now, if they eliminated binary groups, that would make a big big difference.
There wouldn't be a business model, if there were no binaries.

Paul
 
In
Leythos said:
But Usenet would be a better place, at least in my opinion and I've
been here since 88.
Click to expand...

Agreed, even though it's been since '89 for me.

All those whiners that don't know how to setup their own nntp server to tap
into multiple free upstream providers to get the newsgroups they want should
quitcherbitchin and use http://individual.net for a simple 10 Euro/year from
any and all nntp clients.
 
In

Agreed, even though it's been since '89 for me.

All those whiners that don't know how to setup their own nntp server to tap
into multiple free upstream providers to get the newsgroups they want should
quitcherbitchin and use http://individual.net for a simple 10 Euro/year from
any and all nntp clients.
Click to expand...

I normally KF the free groups posts as well as Google Groups posts.
 
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