Folder limitation?

[Rod]

Managing a postage stamp image collection.
I use Windows explorer as the fork lift to
transport / copy / move / archive etc.

How many images may I safely put in each folder?
Is there a limitation for Windows explorer?

Thank you very much.
Rod.

 

[Mikhail Zhilin]

Rod,

If the file system is FAT32 -- there is a limitation of ~35500
files+subfolders with the short names at the first level of any folder,
or approximately 10000 files+folders with the long names. Each of
subfolder can keep the same count of files+subfolders in turn.

No limitation with NTFS though, as far as I know.

--
Mikhail Zhilin
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User, 2000..2008)
http://www.aha.ru/~mwz
Sorry, no technical support by e-mail.
Please reply to the newsgroups only.
======

 

[John John]

Hi Mikhail;

Is that a typo? With FAT32 you can have 65,534 files or folders in any
given folder. Using long filenames will reduce that amount.

John

 

[Detlev Dreyer]

How many images may I safely put in each folder?
Is there a limitation for Windows explorer?

"FAT & NTFS File Systems in Windows XP"
http://aumha.org/win5/a/ntfs.htm

"NTFS vs FAT"
http://www.ntfs.com/ntfs_vs_fat.htm

"Limitations of the FAT32 File System in Windows XP"
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=314463

 

[Tim Slattery]

Hi Mikhail;

Is that a typo? With FAT32 you can have 65,534 files or folders in any
given folder. Using long filenames will reduce that amount.

In FAT32 you can have 65,532 *entries* in a directory. An 8.3,
DOS-style filename will take only one entry, but anything longer than
that, or containing spaces, or other non-standard characters will take
at least 2 entries, and as many as 13 depending on the length. So you
are most likely going to fill up your FAT32 directory at 25,000 to
30,000 files.

 

[John John]

In FAT32 you can have 65,532 *entries* in a directory. An 8.3,
DOS-style filename will take only one entry, but anything longer than
that, or containing spaces, or other non-standard characters will take
at least 2 entries, and as many as 13 depending on the length. So you
are most likely going to fill up your FAT32 directory at 25,000 to
30,000 files.

Actually Tim, a long filename automatically takes up *3* FAT entries...
One entry for the 8.3 alias and an additional entry for each set of 13
characters, the 8.3 naming convention is 12 characters add an extra
character and you have the 13 characters. 2 FAT entries are needed to
store 13 characters and another entry is taken for the 8.3 alias. A
file with the allowed maximum filename length of 255 characters would
take up 21 directory entries. Also, all the information that I have
seen says that the number of available directory entries is 65,534, not
65,532, I'm not sure where you account for the two missing entries? A
folder containing only files with long filenames can only contain a bit
more than 21,000 files, most of the folders that I have seen that use a
random mix of short and long filenames have usually conked out at 20 to
25 thousand files.

John

 

[Tim Slattery]

Also, all the information that I have
seen says that the number of available directory entries is 65,534, not
65,532, I'm not sure where you account for the two missing entries?

Easy. My fingers didn't do quite what they were told. I miscopied the
number.

 

[Rod]

How many images may I safely put in each folder?
Is there a limitation for Windows explorer?

Thanks to d-d,Mikhail, John and Tim,
that puts my mind at rest.
I am assuming NTFS.
I saw a recent post on win98 where explorer froze
and I didn't want that on my XP.

The average folder I would have would contain
say 2000-5000 images totalling 300Mb roughly.

An average file would be named thus:
SG0106 (1892) T0037 01r qv [missing] green and aniline carmine .JPG
Rod.

 

[John John]

How many images may I safely put in each folder?
Is there a limitation for Windows explorer?

Thanks to d-d,Mikhail, John and Tim,
that puts my mind at rest.
I am assuming NTFS.
I saw a recent post on win98 where explorer froze
and I didn't want that on my XP.

The average folder I would have would contain
say 2000-5000 images totalling 300Mb roughly.

An average file would be named thus:
SG0106 (1892) T0037 01r qv [missing] green and aniline carmine .JPG
Rod.

You'll be safe, you can stick 4,294,967,295 files on an NTFS Volume and
they can be stuffed in folders as you please. On NTFS volumes long
filenames will not reduce the number of available entries, your
constraint will be disk space.

John

 

[Rod]

You'll be safe, you can stick 4,294,967,295 files on an NTFS Volume and
they can be stuffed in folders as you please. On NTFS volumes long
filenames will not reduce the number of available entries, your
constraint will be disk space.
John

Well, maybe not, the constraint will be stamps,
I think there are not more than 1,000,000 different stamps
worlwide
In 1974 there were 167,900 worldwide.
Thanks John.

 

[John John]

Well, maybe not, the constraint will be stamps,
I think there are not more than 1,000,000 different stamps
worlwide
In 1974 there were 167,900 worldwide.
Thanks John.

No problem, send me a postcard stamped with and Inverted Jenny ;-)

John

 

[Rod]

No problem, send me a postcard stamped with and Inverted Jenny ;-)
John

Forgive me for being presumptuous,
The inverted Jenny is too traditional for the computer community,
time moves on
The computer geeks (meant in a nice way need an inverted Falcon.
http://cjoint.com/data/kxnetYhpcF.htm
R

 

[Tim Slattery]

Thanks to d-d,Mikhail, John and Tim,
that puts my mind at rest.
I am assuming NTFS.
I saw a recent post on win98 where explorer froze
and I didn't want that on my XP.

Explorer wouldn't freeze on you if you hit the limit. You'd be told
that the disk was full (IIRC) when you tried to save a file that took
you over the line.

The average folder I would have would contain
say 2000-5000 images totalling 300Mb roughly.

The amount of space that the files occupy doesn't matter.

An average file would be named thus:
SG0106 (1892) T0037 01r qv [missing] green and aniline carmine .JPG

OK, 67 characters. 67/13 = 5, remainder 2. So you'll need 7 directory
entries for that (six for the long name, plus one for the 8.3 name).
65,534 / 7 = 9,362 of those files in a FAT32 directory. Sounds like
your 2,000 - 5,000 files would fit if none of the names are much
longer than that.

 

[Rod]

OK, 67 characters. 67/13 = 5, remainder 2. So you'll need 7 directory
entries for that (six for the long name, plus one for the 8.3 name).
65,534 / 7 = 9,362 of those files in a FAT32 directory. Sounds like
your 2,000 - 5,000 files would fit if none of the names are much
longer than that.

Thanks Tim, interesting.
and, if I have your attention,
One problem (unsolvable), with long file/folder names
when one is transporting files by copy dragging,
(in split pane) The left hand pane, always sashays to the
RHS sometimes hiding the Folder name.
I find I have to maintain folder names of brevity.



hifts

 

[Mikhail Zhilin]

Hi Mikhail;

Is that a typo? With FAT32 you can have 65,534 files or folders in any
given folder. Using long filenames will reduce that amount.

John

I see, the main question is exhausted -- so after all.

Yes, John, it seems my memory failed in this case (couldn't find fast
the required MS KB article, and wrote from memory). Then yes, there are
maximum 65534 entries with the short (8.3) DOS names, plus two mandatory
entries: for the parent (..) and current (.) folder (not sure the entry
with the number 0xFFFF is available either). But this my mistake doesn't
play a critical part for Rod, I think.

BTW, FAT16/32 has an additional limitation for files with the long
names: all the parts of the record for any file with the long (or, what
is the same -- with the national non-English) name must be in the
contiguous area of the directory record. In theory, there can be the
situation when you have more than a half of the directory records free
-- but can't write even one file with the long (or national) name in
this folder because of this requirement.

--
Mikhail Zhilin
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User, 2000..2008)
http://www.aha.ru/~mwz
Sorry, no technical support by e-mail.
Please reply to the newsgroups only.
======

 

[John John]

Forgive me for being presumptuous,
The inverted Jenny is too traditional for the computer community,
time moves on
The computer geeks (meant in a nice way need an inverted Falcon.
http://cjoint.com/data/kxnetYhpcF.htm

Ha!ha! Good for the Trekies, or Sci-fi Aficionados, too. I guess an
inverted Canadian St-Lawrence Seaway wont do either...

John

 

[Bob I]

Thanks Tim, interesting.
and, if I have your attention,
One problem (unsolvable), with long file/folder names
when one is transporting files by copy dragging,
(in split pane) The left hand pane, always sashays to the
RHS sometimes hiding the Folder name.
I find I have to maintain folder names of brevity.



hifts

Make the pane wider, or patiently hold the cursor and attached files at
the left edge of the pane to "walk it back" to the left.