Tired of supporting friends' computers? Migrate them to GNU/Linux

J

John Bailo

http://software.newsforge.com/software/05/04/29/0237254.shtml?tid=130&tid=2

"The real challenge comes into play when you bring Microsoft Windows
into the equation. Contrary to popular opinion, untrained, inexperienced
users cannot manage Windows by themselves. It takes a knowledgeable,
skilled user to keep a Windows system properly maintained. That means
applying updates and patches, setting up a firewall, using a virus
scanner (or simply knowing what is and is not a suspicious email), and
defragmenting the disk every month or so. Unfortunately, the kind of
people who need my help do not know how to do this, even for all the
times I've shown them. They are not stupid people, but many are older
and grew up in a time when their friends would not send them messages
that could harm them. They understand mechanical maintenance, but don't
quite comprehend the fact that computers require electronic maintenance.
Some don't care about system maintenance at all; they are content to pay
someone else to fix it when it breaks, rather than properly care for
their software. In short, they need an operating system that, for all
their trying, they cannot screw up. Windows isn't it.

Windows fails in ways that totally confound my hardware troubleshooting
abilities. A "blue screen of death" or STOP error can mean that a BIOS
setting is incorrect, a memory stick has failed, the motherboard is
dying, the power supply is starting to flake out, or that the hard drive
has bad sectors. It can also mean that the Windows registry has been
corrupted by spyware or viruses, a third-party program has caused a bad
crash, or Windows Update has mis-applied a security patch or driver
update. Where do you begin when there are so many possibilities? The
professional technicians I've spoken with recently tend to start with
the operating system, and rather than try to diagnose which part of the
software has failed, the usual recommendation is to erase the hard drive
and reinstall Windows, then work from there. And, not surprisingly, this
solution often works."
 
K

kurttrail

John said:

LOL! And have to start explaining how to recompile the Linux kernel!

Go troll away elsewhere, might I suggest alt.os.windows-xp, or are you
too chicken to post your drivel there?!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
 
G

Guest

If this is a cry for help ? Then they shouldn't be so lazy to learn in how
its done , And if they don't care to learn ? Then no one said to use a
computer , Or better yet if they are to lazy to learn , Then you should pay ,
its really that simple ...
 
M

Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)

John

Why tell us this?.. if you and your family are incapable of, or unwilling
to, run MS products, then don't.. there is no need to make a song and dance
out of it..
 
R

ray

http://software.newsforge.com/software/05/04/29/0237254.shtml?tid=130&tid=2

"The real challenge comes into play when you bring Microsoft Windows
into the equation. Contrary to popular opinion, untrained, inexperienced
users cannot manage Windows by themselves. It takes a knowledgeable,
skilled user to keep a Windows system properly maintained. That means
applying updates and patches, setting up a firewall, using a virus
scanner (or simply knowing what is and is not a suspicious email), and
defragmenting the disk every month or so. Unfortunately, the kind of
people who need my help do not know how to do this, even for all the
times I've shown them. They are not stupid people, but many are older
and grew up in a time when their friends would not send them messages
that could harm them. They understand mechanical maintenance, but don't
quite comprehend the fact that computers require electronic maintenance.
Some don't care about system maintenance at all; they are content to pay
someone else to fix it when it breaks, rather than properly care for
their software. In short, they need an operating system that, for all
their trying, they cannot screw up. Windows isn't it.

Windows fails in ways that totally confound my hardware troubleshooting
abilities. A "blue screen of death" or STOP error can mean that a BIOS
setting is incorrect, a memory stick has failed, the motherboard is
dying, the power supply is starting to flake out, or that the hard drive
has bad sectors. It can also mean that the Windows registry has been
corrupted by spyware or viruses, a third-party program has caused a bad
crash, or Windows Update has mis-applied a security patch or driver
update. Where do you begin when there are so many possibilities? The
professional technicians I've spoken with recently tend to start with
the operating system, and rather than try to diagnose which part of the
software has failed, the usual recommendation is to erase the hard drive
and reinstall Windows, then work from there. And, not surprisingly, this
solution often works."

I calmly explain to friends, both new and old, that yes, I worked as a
computer scientist and mathematician doing computer software development
and support for 30 years before I retired; and yes, I will help them with
their computers. The only kicker is - I don't do windows.
 
H

Heather Locklearjet

I calmly explain to friends, both new and old, that yes, I worked as a
computer scientist and mathematician doing computer software development
and support for 30 years before I retired; and yes, I will help them with
their computers. The only kicker is - I don't do windows.

Which means their children won't be able to use any educational programs
like:
Magic Schoolbus
SAT prep
Any of the Learning Center Series of Language programs, Science, Math etc.
The TI 89 calculator programs won't work.
Mommy why doesn't the program the teacher gave me to help improve my math
skills work?
Oh, sorry honey, we use Linux and nothing your teacher gives you will work.
Maybe we can code some program in Perl to do the same thing.
I'll ask daddy when he comes home from sweeping the streets.
 
B

B Gruff

Which means their children won't be able to use any educational
programs like:
Magic Schoolbus
SAT prep
Any of the Learning Center Series of Language programs, Science,
Math etc. The TI 89 calculator programs won't work.
Mommy why doesn't the program the teacher gave me to help improve my
math skills work?
Oh, sorry honey, we use Linux and nothing your teacher gives you
will work. Maybe we can code some program in Perl to do the same
thing. I'll ask daddy when he comes home from sweeping the streets.

If the school (I take it that this is an American School, btw?)
insists that Windows software is to be used, presumably the parents
wouldn't mind using Wine, Crossover, Win4Lin, or VMware.
They would then be able to control the malware situation of course, in
that they would ensure that the Internet was accessed only from
Linux, while the children would be able to run any Windows software
which had been approved by the parents.

There are many advantages of doing it this way, one being that the
parents no longer need keep-pace with the latest MS systems and the
cost that that entails (W98 works quite well), they save the cost of
(presumably several) AV subscriptions, and they give their children a
head-start on the IT front by making them familiar with Linux, which
as you know is a secure, multi-user, multi-tasking, "proper" O/S.
Indeed, such a fortunate child, benefitting from the enlightened home
environment, would no doubt quite soon be advising or running the
school's IT department, taking liveCDs in to school, and no doubt
campaigning for the school to adopt Linux.

You do make quite a valid point, in that (too often, imo) schools,
nightschools, etc. are working on the principle that courses for:-

"Spreadsheets" means "How to use Excel"
"Word Processing" means "How to use MS Word"
"Internet" means "How to use I.E. and Outlook"

It is changing here. Perhaps it will take a lot longer in the U.S.,
which is presumably still home to the 1/7th H.P. light-bulb?:)

Bill
 
W

Woody

hey if you want everything involved with using that nick here , feel free .
just warning you though ;-P
 
W

Winux P

"comp.os.linux.advocacy"? Does Linux really need advocating? Why? Ever tried
giving it (Linux) away for free? Oh I see it's evil Microsofts' fault.

-Winux P.

:
:
http://software.newsforge.com/software/05/04/29/0237254.shtml?tid=130&tid=2
:
: "The real challenge comes into play when you bring Microsoft Windows
: into the equation. Contrary to popular opinion, untrained, inexperienced
: users cannot manage Windows by themselves. It takes a knowledgeable,
: skilled user to keep a Windows system properly maintained. That means
: applying updates and patches, setting up a firewall, using a virus
: scanner (or simply knowing what is and is not a suspicious email), and
: defragmenting the disk every month or so. Unfortunately, the kind of
: people who need my help do not know how to do this, even for all the
: times I've shown them. They are not stupid people, but many are older
: and grew up in a time when their friends would not send them messages
: that could harm them. They understand mechanical maintenance, but don't
: quite comprehend the fact that computers require electronic maintenance.
: Some don't care about system maintenance at all; they are content to pay
: someone else to fix it when it breaks, rather than properly care for
: their software. In short, they need an operating system that, for all
: their trying, they cannot screw up. Windows isn't it.
:
: Windows fails in ways that totally confound my hardware troubleshooting
: abilities. A "blue screen of death" or STOP error can mean that a BIOS
: setting is incorrect, a memory stick has failed, the motherboard is
: dying, the power supply is starting to flake out, or that the hard drive
: has bad sectors. It can also mean that the Windows registry has been
: corrupted by spyware or viruses, a third-party program has caused a bad
: crash, or Windows Update has mis-applied a security patch or driver
: update. Where do you begin when there are so many possibilities? The
: professional technicians I've spoken with recently tend to start with
: the operating system, and rather than try to diagnose which part of the
: software has failed, the usual recommendation is to erase the hard drive
: and reinstall Windows, then work from there. And, not surprisingly, this
: solution often works."
:
:
: --
: Texeme Construct
: http://texeme.com
 
C

Chuck

Which means their children won't be able to use any educational programs
like:
Magic Schoolbus
SAT prep
Any of the Learning Center Series of Language programs, Science, Math etc.
The TI 89 calculator programs won't work.
Mommy why doesn't the program the teacher gave me to help improve my math
skills work?

You ever hear of these things called *books*? The teacher *gave a
program* to the student? The BSA may want to know about that.

Oh, sorry honey, we use Linux and nothing your teacher gives you will work.
Maybe we can code some program in Perl to do the same thing.

Maybe we can learn more than point and click.
I'll ask daddy when he comes home from sweeping the streets.

Sweeping streets is more honorable than spreading FUD.
 
D

DevilsPGD

In message
<slrnd78ojr.tga.chuck@wbar100.chi14.30.180.171chi1.dsl-verizon.net>
Chuck said:
You ever hear of these things called *books*? The teacher *gave a
program* to the student? The BSA may want to know about that.

If the program runs on the calculator, it may well be something that the
teacher wrote, or is allowed to distribute.
 
J

Jose Maria Lopez Hernandez

John said:
http://software.newsforge.com/software/05/04/29/0237254.shtml?tid=130&tid=2

"The real challenge comes into play when you bring Microsoft Windows
into the equation. Contrary to popular opinion, untrained, inexperienced
users cannot manage Windows by themselves. It takes a knowledgeable,

The best thing for this work is Knoppix.
When some of my windows using friends gets his computer totally
unusable they usually call me to solve it. Then I go and use
my Knoppix CD to solve the problem. When they see it they always
ask me for a copy of the CD. It's the best way I've found to
convince people of using Linux. They just ask for it, you don't
even have to tell them.

Regards.

--

Jose Maria Lopez Hernandez
Director Tecnico de bgSEC
(e-mail address removed)
bgSEC Seguridad y Consultoria de Sistemas
http://www.bgsec.com
ESPAÑA

The only people for me are the mad ones -- the ones who are mad to live,
mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time,
the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn
like fabulous yellow Roman candles.
-- Jack Kerouac, "On the Road"
 
W

Woody

Thanks for pointing that out. I have been using this "nick" in this group
since early 2003. I believe you need to find a new one.

Thanks,

(the real) Woody
 
R

ray

Which means their children won't be able to use any educational programs
like:
Magic Schoolbus
SAT prep
Any of the Learning Center Series of Language programs, Science, Math etc.
The TI 89 calculator programs won't work.
Mommy why doesn't the program the teacher gave me to help improve my math
skills work?
Oh, sorry honey, we use Linux and nothing your teacher gives you will work.
Maybe we can code some program in Perl to do the same thing.
I'll ask daddy when he comes home from sweeping the streets.

1) I have no problem if they dual boot. MS has it's place - just not
online.

2) if they have to run MS software, they are going to have to pay to have
someone fix it - I won't do it.

3) there are a decent number of educational software products that run on
Linux.

My point is that I'm not going to fix friend's MS problems. It's a
never-ending headache. If they want to set up Linux, I'm glad to help, and
I'll do it for free. I've installed Mandrake 10.1 on the public access
internet computers at the local library, and I do updates and installs -
all for free.
 
J

Jim

ray said:
1) I have no problem if they dual boot. MS has it's place - just not
online.

2) if they have to run MS software, they are going to have to pay to have
someone fix it - I won't do it.

3) there are a decent number of educational software products that run on
Linux.

My point is that I'm not going to fix friend's MS problems. It's a
never-ending headache. If they want to set up Linux, I'm glad to help, and
I'll do it for free. I've installed Mandrake 10.1 on the public access
internet computers at the local library, and I do updates and installs -
all for free.

What annoys me is that our local education authority, since moving to
PCs from Archimedes networks, have time and again stated that they'll be
embracing open sourse platforms and applications. YET my son's teachers
ALL INSIST that any work typed up or otherwise done on a PC be formatted
in native Microsoft Office. I've had a go at the teachers and the board
of governors about this, stating for the record that I will deliberately
NOT allow my children to use Microsoft Office, that any work they do
WILL NOT TOUCH Microsoft Office, that any work they do will be saved in
open formats such as [X]HTML, rich text, png graphics, SHN or FLAC
audio, and divx+AC3 video. No way in hell my boys are suffering the same
as me at school; that is, locked into a single proprietery format that
nobody in the Real World[TM] uses (in my case it was Acorn). Open
formats last forever, proprietery formats last the lifetime of the
company who hold the patent.

--
Cheers,

Jim

-begin sig-
Opinions expressed in this message may or may not be representative of
the opinions of its author. You decide.

Web: http://www.dotware.co.uk
http://www.dotware-entertainment.co.uk

Portable: P4m 2.0, 1GB, 40GB, MX440/15" XGA@1600x1200, Wi-Fi, GPRS,
DVD/CDRW, XPSP2/Knoppix
Powerbook G3/400, 392MB, 20GB, Rage 128/15"@1024x768, Wi-Fi, DVD, Mac OS
X 10.4 "Tiger" Dev. Build
Desktop: AMD64 [email protected], 512MB, 80GB, FX5700LE/32" WXGA@2048x768,
DVD+-RW, XPSP1/Debian
FileServer: Athlon XP 2400+, 256MB, 2.72TB, Blind, MuLinux

More but I'm not tellin' ya, there's a pool forming at your feet.
-end sig-
 
N

Nocturnal Dragon

Jim said:
ray said:
1) I have no problem if they dual boot. MS has it's place - just not
online.
2) if they have to run MS software, they are going to have to pay to have
someone fix it - I won't do it.
3) there are a decent number of educational software products that run on
Linux.
My point is that I'm not going to fix friend's MS problems. It's a
never-ending headache. If they want to set up Linux, I'm glad to help, and
I'll do it for free. I've installed Mandrake 10.1 on the public access
internet computers at the local library, and I do updates and installs -
all for free.

What annoys me is that our local education authority, since moving to
PCs from Archimedes networks, have time and again stated that they'll be
embracing open sourse platforms and applications. YET my son's teachers
ALL INSIST that any work typed up or otherwise done on a PC be formatted
in native Microsoft Office. I've had a go at the teachers and the board
of governors about this, stating for the record that I will deliberately
NOT allow my children to use Microsoft Office, that any work they do
WILL NOT TOUCH Microsoft Office, that any work they do will be saved in
open formats such as [X]HTML, rich text, png graphics, SHN or FLAC
audio, and divx+AC3 video. No way in hell my boys are suffering the same
as me at school; that is, locked into a single proprietery format that
nobody in the Real World[TM] uses (in my case it was Acorn). Open
formats last forever, proprietery formats last the lifetime of the
company who hold the patent.

In other words, you care more about your hatred for Microsoft than you
do about your own children's education.

Were you born that stupid, or did your mama make you take lessons later
in life?
 
P

Philip Callan

Nocturnal said:
In other words, you care more about your hatred for Microsoft than you
do about your own children's education.

Were you born that stupid, or did your mama make you take lessons later
in life?

Hey Dragon, you poor BSD troll, haven't been here in a bit..........

You'd need to get a date, in order to procreate, in order to understand
thinking not about YOUR future, but someone else's....

I'd say he's more interested that his children be taught skills (word
processing, basic spreadsheets etc) and not reliance on a specific product.

Also, why should my son, or his teacher, or his school for that matter,
have to pay for /SPECIFIC/ software to teach my son a skill?

Every dollar spent on proprietary Office applications in schools is a
dollar NOT spent educating your child. They are only teaching them
reliance on a specific product, so that when they start buying their own
software, or buying it for their job, they stick with what they know....

Why do you think MS was more than happy to pay their fines with retail
priced copies of Office and Windows to schools, give away what cost them
nothing, and only serves to hook them, what Gates said of China, the US
administration allowed them to do to schools!
 
J

Jim

Nocturnal said:
Jim wrote:

I calmly explain to friends, both new and old, that yes, I worked as a
computer scientist and mathematician doing computer software development
and support for 30 years before I retired; and yes, I will help them with
their computers. The only kicker is - I don't do windows.
Which means their children won't be able to use any educational programs
like:
Magic Schoolbus
SAT prep
Any of the Learning Center Series of Language programs, Science, Math etc.
The TI 89 calculator programs won't work.
Mommy why doesn't the program the teacher gave me to help improve my math
skills work?
Oh, sorry honey, we use Linux and nothing your teacher gives you will work.
Maybe we can code some program in Perl to do the same thing.
I'll ask daddy when he comes home from sweeping the streets.
1) I have no problem if they dual boot. MS has it's place - just not
online.
2) if they have to run MS software, they are going to have to pay to have
someone fix it - I won't do it.
3) there are a decent number of educational software products that run on
Linux.
My point is that I'm not going to fix friend's MS problems. It's a
never-ending headache. If they want to set up Linux, I'm glad to help, and
I'll do it for free. I've installed Mandrake 10.1 on the public access
internet computers at the local library, and I do updates and installs -
all for free.


What annoys me is that our local education authority, since moving to
PCs from Archimedes networks, have time and again stated that they'll be
embracing open sourse platforms and applications. YET my son's teachers
ALL INSIST that any work typed up or otherwise done on a PC be formatted
in native Microsoft Office. I've had a go at the teachers and the board
of governors about this, stating for the record that I will deliberately
NOT allow my children to use Microsoft Office, that any work they do
WILL NOT TOUCH Microsoft Office, that any work they do will be saved in
open formats such as [X]HTML, rich text, png graphics, SHN or FLAC
audio, and divx+AC3 video. No way in hell my boys are suffering the same
as me at school; that is, locked into a single proprietery format that
nobody in the Real World[TM] uses (in my case it was Acorn). Open
formats last forever, proprietery formats last the lifetime of the
company who hold the patent.


In other words, you care more about your hatred for Microsoft than you
do about your own children's education.

no, that is not what I said or implied. Stop putting words in my mouth.

I care about open formats. Which is why I'm not using M$. Word HTML is
not w3c compliant. OpenOffice HTML is. SFOL.
Were you born that stupid, or did your mama make you take lessons later
in life?

Takes stupidity to spot stupidity. Even if it does come up with a false
positive. Go crawl back down your hole.



--
Cheers,

Jim

-begin sig-
Opinions expressed in this message may or may not be representative of
the opinions of its author. You decide.

Web: http://www.dotware.co.uk
http://www.dotware-entertainment.co.uk

Portable: P4m 2.0, 1GB, 40GB, MX440/15" XGA@1600x1200, Wi-Fi, GPRS,
DVD/CDRW, XPSP2/Knoppix
Powerbook G3/400, 392MB, 20GB, Rage 128/15"@1024x768, Wi-Fi, DVD, Mac OS
X 10.4 "Tiger" Dev. Build
Desktop: AMD64 [email protected], 512MB, 80GB, FX5700LE/32" WXGA@2048x768,
DVD+-RW, XPSP1/Debian
FileServer: Athlon XP 2400+, 256MB, 2.72TB, Blind, MuLinux

More but I'm not tellin' ya, there's a pool forming at your feet.
-end sig-
 

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