dual processor boards...

[Thermaltke]

Yes although i havent yet finished this project im thinking of starting a new but this time with ultimate power, and im talking ultimate!!

What about as far as dual processors go, combined with hyperthreading technology, isnt this the way of the future?

So what do you think, should i use the 3200xp AMD i already have or should i buy 2 3gig intel processors, because a 6 gig comp would sound better than a 4.4gig then i would need atleast 1 gig of memory, pc3200, and most definately watercooled as i cannot stand the noise my 1 CPU fan makes. Stuff SATA too and kick RAID in that box and what do i get? will it be worth it and what problems am i going to come across. and how much is this all going to cost and where do i get such a new technology????

please help, ask for any more information you would like...

 

[muckshifter]

A CPU can only do one job at a time, but boy can it do it quickly ... So a dual CPU will do it twice as quick. However, AMDs 64bit CPUs, are in essence, "Dual CPUs" (shame the Win software isn't around yet but you could use Linux; Note that MACs can already do 64bit) ... so a dual 64bit system will do it 4 times as quick.

So I'll be looking for a dual 64bit MB. Some

Now the memory will have to obviously match the MB, but we'll only be able to install 2gig. Despite what you think you may be able to use the CPUs around at the moment have trouble with anything more. (search for it yourself)

Graphics ... forget AGP, it will not cope, we need 'PCI Express' in this system and we'll have the best at 16x ... if only we could buy them now.

Hard drives ... well this is not going to be that easy, plonking in an EIDE 7200rpm drive is just a waist of time, we need 10,000 at least, AND, we'll need a high transfer rate. We're gonna need SATA 2 (300Mbs 15,000rpm)

Anybody got £5,000 spare they could loan me.

 

[Thermaltke]

haha, maybe in about 5 years when im settled down and working, but surely the intel boards on www.ebuyer.co.uk will sort us out? yeah and with hyperthreading we r sorted i know what u mean though HT makes it so they act like 2 now, hmm take a lok at the ebuyer bords, £160 - 300, and the other day i seen someone with 2x 2000xp bartons, hmm wierd no?

 

[Techy]

i agree that 2 CPU's is in theory twice as fast, now even though XP can support a 2 CPU config, most other software won't! thus giving you little or no advantage.

i think there's software about that can manage two CPU's just to give the app/games etc the help they need to take advantage of 2 CPU's.

J

 

[Thermaltke]

alright seem although im going to have to look into it, i will now then report back in an hour or so, stay tuned

 

[Thermaltke]

Hyper-Threading Technology improves processor performance for multi-threaded applications or multi-tasking environments by supporting multiple software threads on each processor system. Initially introduced for dual processor (DP) and multiprocessor (MP) servers, Hyper-Threading Technology is now available for DP workstations based on Intel Xeon processor with 533 MHz system bus and the Intel® E7505 chipset.

MSI K8T Master2
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Tyan Thunder K8W
​

Tyan Tiger K8W
​

Form factor

ATX

Extended ATX

ATX

Chipset

VIA K8T800 north bridge
VIA VT8237 south bridge

AMD-8151 AGP tunnel
AMD-8131 PCI-X tunnel
AMD-8111 IO Hub

AMD-8151 AGP tunnel
AMD-8111 IO Hub

Interconnect

16-bit, 800MHz HyperTransport (processor)
16-bit, 533MHz V-Link (chipset)

16-bit, 600MHz HyperTransport (processor/AGP tunnel)
16-bit, 600MHz HyperTransport (processor/PCI-X tunnel)
8-bit, 400MHz (PCI-X tunnel/IO hub)

16-bit, 800MHz HyperTransport (processor)
8-bit, 400MHz HyperTransport (chipset)

PCI slots

4 32-bit/33MHz

1 32-bit/33MHz
2 PCI-X 64-bit/100MHz
2 PCI-X 64-bit/133MHz

5 32-bit/33MHz

AGP slots

1 AGP 8X/AGP Pro

1 AGP 8X/AGP Pro

1 AGP 4X/8X

Memory

4 184-pin DIMM sockets
Maximum of 8GB of registered DDR200/266/333/400 SDRAM with ECC

8 184-pin DIMM sockets
Maximum of 16GB of registered DDR200/266/333/400 SDRAM with ECC

4 184-pin DIMM sockets
Maximum of 8GB of registered DDR200/266/333/400 SDRAM with ECC

Storage I/O

Floppy disk
2 channels ATA/133
2 channels Serial ATA 150 via VT8237 with RAID 0,1 support

Floppy disk
2 channels ATA/133
4 channels Serial ATA 150 via Silicon Image Sil3114 with RAID 0,1, 0+1 support

Floppy disk
2 channels ATA/133
4 channels Serial ATA 150 via Silicon Image Sil3114 with RAID 0,1, 0+1 support

Audio

6-channel audio via VT8237 integrated audio and Realtek ALC201A codec

6-channel audio via AMD-8111 integrated audio and Analog Devices AD1981b codec

6-channel audio via AMD-8111 integrated audio and Realtek ALC655 codec

USB

6 USB 2.0 ports via VT8237 (4 front, 2 rear)

5 USB 1.1 ports via AMD-8111 (2 front, 3 rear)

4 USB 1.1 ports via AMD-8111 (2 front, 2 rear)
4 USB 2.0 ports via VIA VT6212 (2 front, 2 rear)

Firewire

None

2 ports via Texas Instruments TSB43AB22

2 ports via VIA VT6307

Ethernet

Gigabit Ethernet via Broadcom BCM5705

Gigabit Ethernet via Broadcom BCM5703C

Gigabit Ethernet via Intel 82541E1

​

I pulled this info from http://tech-report.com/reviews/2004q2/dually-opterons/index.x?pg=2 so have a look and tell me what’s going on. I read it too, sounds… erm… complicated but very very nice.

 

[Thermaltke]

check this out...

http://tech-report.com/reviews/2004q2/dually-opterons/index.x?pg=1

now thats impressive, all the pages of it

 

[Shorty]

Stop now before you even start!

Sorry but you must. I have two dual systems at home (one opteron and one MP).. so let me clafity the "myth" that 2 x 2ghz = 4ghz. It does NOT.

Unless the application can support an MPS system (programs that do are few and far between).. you are throwing your money into something that will not utilise more than 50% of the processing ability.

A few that do support MPS include:

Adobe photoshop,
Apache webserver
PHP
MySQL
Any quake III engine computer game
Most rendering applications (except SolidWorks 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004).

Unless you are going to use those, don't bother. My dual Opteron is a very slick development server running SUSE 64. When compiling under that, it's considerably faster than anything else.

My MP system is my web/mail server. Microsoft Exchange can address and use both processors. Though to be honest, even with MySQL, apache and Exchange running.. I will never stress out those processors except in a production environment. Same with the Opteron.

Benchmarks are benchmarks and they look great but they are based on MPS aware applications!

Unless you want to sit there with one idle processor, dual processor setups are not going to give you 4ghz performance. It will give you 2ghz performance. Simple as that.

Even if it's MP aware, it won't be faster. It will just spread the load. It does not double the raw performance characteristic.

Finally. Intel desktop processors are not multi aware. You cannot just buy an Intel dual board and install two prescotts @ 3.3ghz. You will require Xeon family processors.

For further clarification, please ask your questions.. Il answer them

 

[Thermaltke]

hey shorty, thanks for your help, but what other stuff can i do to get top of the range cpu speed without using dual mode... u cant

so if i find the perfect board, still i wouldnt be able to get better speeds? hmm im puzzled, even the ones on this website, what u think about them then shorty?

surely i can beat amd's top specs of their 3800xp by using dual, and hyperthreading.

 

[ChristopherP]

if you really, really, really want a kickass system then i would wait about 3 years or so and while you are waiting, save your money.

SLI would be released by then - imagine 2 graphics cards, faster than 6800 Ultras, strapped together and placed on a motherboard with dual PCI-E 16x slots.

i quote my cousin "SLI IS BACK, BABY"

you would want the best SINGLE cpu out at the time, not a multi cpu setup and you, as mucks said, would want a SATA2 setup. a couple in RAID 0 should be good.

You would want RAM with tight timings, a couple gig of that, hopefully it wil be cheaper than it is now!

getting a dual CPU system now would be a waste of time and money mate, save your money. splash out when you can get something considerably better than the norm in a couple years or so

 

[Shorty]

Sorry but you aren't understanding what dual (symetrical) processing is for or how it works.

It's not to double your performance system wide. It's completely application dependant.

Your OS won't use both processors in operation unless an application can use them AND calls them.

The only reason an OS needs to be aware that there is dual processor is so dual processor aware applications (such as the aforementioned photoshop and 3d rendering applications) can tell the OS to address both CPU's.

Most applications are not SMP aware, so one processor WILL sit idle.

Dual, quad and so on systems were designed for intensive SMP aware applications like database servers, web servers & rendering workstations used in things like mechanical design. They carry an appropriate price premium to boot.

A SolidWorks license starts at £6000/£8000 per license.

These applications take alot of development to work correctly in SMP environments. That is why most desktop applications/games are not SMP aware. It's too costly and being honest, won't really benefit enough with a performance boost.

In a game or render scenario, a desktop graphics card (even a blazing 6800Ultra) will not be able to work fast enough, the additional processing power is wasted waiting for the GPU to catch up. Thats reserved for the £3500+ range of Oxygen style cards which are application optimised along with specialist optimisations for workstation class machines.

A server will have multiple high speed 15k SCSI drives to server an MPS system running a MySQL or Oracle database server.

Those are just two examples.

To get more processor speed.. there is only one route. Upgrade your processor to a better one or upgrade parts of your machine to take advantage of what your system potentially has to offer.

Eg.. a 3800+ socket 939 will be faster than a 3200+ socket 754 AMD 64. These are proven to be faster than the 3.2ghz Intel northwood/prescott processors. This is because AMD processors have a shorter pipeline and an onboard memory controller.

To improve on a 3800+ would require an FX-53 processor. That is effectively the fastest processor you can get your hands on in this commercial world.

You need to understand how processors work, how they communicate to the operating system (and vice versa), how they communicatie to system memory, buses and so on. When you understand the architecture, you will realise that the reputed fastest processor in the world can be beaten by a slower processor, if the rest of the slower processors system is optimised (from tight memory timings to operating system optimisation, fast hard drives... ).

The sum of parts make the system, not a single component

 

[bodhi]

I believe it's called synergy! ;-)

 

[Thermaltke]

Quad? did you say QUAD, woah 4x the speed!!! nah just kidding, you put alot of knowledge into that post and thankyou i will look into it further.

and chris, im going to stick with my computer now, and i should get £700 rolling in soon, so uprgrades are gonna come, like watercooling and a 9800 pro. maybe a new case too, i get bord too quickly.

yeah i need help too, you know the gallery, when i got into it is signs me out, then when trying to sign back in it diverts me to a page where im already signed out , so i cant upload pictures of my machine.

 

[ChristopherP]

i believe there have been problems with the gallery. talk to ian about that one.

you can do alot with £700 - i would say upgrade the motherboard, get a CPU, loads of memory, a X800pro or XT and raid a couple of SATA hard drives. sell what you have and add to the funds and build an ultimate system - dont bother with the 9800pro if you have a ridiculous amount of money to play with!!

 

[Thermaltke]

nooo not anew board, i worship this one as a modder i like to stick to my UV LAN PARTY woop, its good enough, i like the cmos features too, and raid includes formatting right?

 

[ChristopherP]

oops i didn't mean motherboard - dont get rid of your Diamond Flower INTL!! they are pretty cool!

I notice that your hard drives are different and you say you are going to raid.

Its best to have identical make and model drives when you are going to do it otherwise something wont work right i think.

Yes RAID does include formatting but it is worth it. at least i think so - i have dual Samsung 80Gb SATA 7200rpm 8mb cache drives in my machine in a RAID 0 array. its good!

 

[Thermaltke]

nah i will buy two more seagates from ebuyer identical 80gb ones, then shove them on raid, but its just the windows xp i have to install i do not own a copy wheres the cheapest i can buy one from? and how many installations will it last for?

 

[ChristopherP]

how do you have XP at the mo if you dont own it?

Btw the general feeling here is that piracy is a big no no - you never know who could read it and trace you via your IP address and prosecute.

i think that windows XP is worth buying legitamitly - you will have a hard time cracking it as the corporate pirated version of XP Pro is blacklisted and will need activation upon installation of SP1, or so i have read.

The best thing to do would be to buy an OEM version of windows XP with your two new drives. It can be installed as many times as you like, so long as you actually own it. On many an occasion the internet has refused to activate my copy but a quick call to Microsoft soon sorted the issue.

I have a suggestion that i think many here will agree with....

do not get your 2 new drives from eBuyer because in a RAID (0) setup, both drives need to be present in order for the computer to boot and i have heard that their returns service is pants basically and it would take you 6 weeks to get a replacement. If you spend what a little more and go for a more reputable company then you can rest assured that should a hard drive be DOA or die within warranty you would get your computer up and running in a short space of time. Most reputable companies also deliver next day as standard. eBuyer do not.

talking of eBuyer, i ordered something 2 months ago (a headset) and i have only just this second got the email that the order has been confirmed. I think the order was meant to be delievered on July the 13th so i must have ordered it on about the 8th of July and its what the 25th of August. Disgraceful...

chris

 

[Thermaltke]

thats where your wrong my good friend, its not piracy, and thankyou for your help speak to you soon.. like. tonight. okie i though ebuyer sucked from the start, when they told me they put the order in 1 day slower, when i ordered express, then they explained that they are sorry and paid me back in full, i kept the case they woulda' gotten away with it too if it wasn't for us pesky kids harrr!

yeah to do this kinda stuff i need you in a box for christmas chris, i think i can arrange that with parcel force, i might also slip you a tenner or two whatcha say?

just kidding thankyou should be all kool now

 

[psd99]

think this is one really interesting topic

one day i was thinkin of making a dual system..............

but then all that cash just think what more you could do with it!