Desperately Need Help - System Reboot/Crashes

D

Don Cohen

I desperately need help on the following problem which has stumped me (and
everybody else) for the last several weeks. I apologize for the length of
this post, but there's no other way to adequately document it.

System: a 2 year old Gateway 700XL running XP Home. 1 gb RAM. ATI 8500 64
mb VideoCard. 18.1" FPD 1810 LCD monitor using DVI connection. From the
very beginning I have run ZoneAlarm, NAV 2002 and then 2003 when my initial
subscription ran out, scan with NAV weekly, install all Critical Updates
when available.

The system has run virtually flawlessly since I bought it with one fairly
infrequent glitch that others with this system have experienced whose cause
has never been identified. Whether this is connected to the current more
serious problem is unknown. Sporadically, under random circumstances, the
monitor would go black for about 2 or 3 seconds, would then come back on,
with nothing else occurring. This would happen once every few months,
occasionally more frequently. I researched this on the newsgroups - people
updated drivers, replaced VideoCards, etc., but nothing seemed to
consistently work for all involved. It seemed harmless, and so I just lived
with it.

The problem now: the system would, out of nowhere, spontaneously reboot.
This first occurred Dec. 24, 2003, when my daughter (26 years old and not
doing anything more than surfing the web) was at the computer. She told me
about it, but I couldn't find anything. It didn't happen again for close to
a month, and over the past month it has become a recurring problem. It may
run a few minutes, a few hours, a few days, before the problem recurs.

I have wondered if there was a relation to the 'black-out' glitch, as it
would seemingly start the same: the monitor goes black, and then after a
second or so instead of coming back on like it did in the past, it would
reboot. Again, I don't know if this is connected or a coincidence.

Trouble-shooting so far:

I disabled the 'reboot automatically' checkbox in order to find out what was
going on. So now instead of rebooting, I received the following BSOD:

A problem has been detected and windows has been shut down to prevent damage
to your computer

"PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA

****STOP: 0x00000050 (0xB7874E5E, 0x00000000, 0xB7874E5E, 0x00000000)

Beginning dump of physical memory

Physical memory dump complete"

1.. I researched this on the web, and found that the most likely cause of
something like this was a hardware error, with RAM, hot CPU and Power Supply
the most likely culprits.

2.. I opened the case and verified that the fan was working fine. The
computer would also do the reboot within minutes after being off all night,
seemingly making heat an unlikely cause.

3.. I downloaded memtest86.exe from the web, created a bootable CD with
it, and ran it overnight, selecting All Tests and after 6 ½ hours, and more
than 2 full passes, no errors were detected.

4.. I replaced the originial 250W Power Supply with an Antec 430W TruPower
unit. The computer ran fine for almost 48 hours, and then rebooted.

5.. I brought it to a local computer repair shop, and they couldn't
diagnose any specific hardware problem. Because we both suggested a
VideoCard issue, we put in a new ATI Radeon 9200SE 128 mb card. This time
it
ran for about an hour before it again did the same thing. This time a
slightly different 'b.s.o.d.' came up:

0x0000008E, 0xB7874E5F, 0xB6A2E728, 0x00000000 and another time:

0x0000008E, 0xB7874E60, 0xB6A2E728, 0x00000000

6.. I next went into Windows Recovery Console, and ran CHKDSK /R. It
indicated that it found and fixed some problems. It now ran fine for almost
72 hours and then the reboot again occurred.

7.. This time, I couldn't even boot back into the Recovery Console, even
when I booted from the XP Home CD. It would get to the point when I would
select the c:\winnt installation, and it would then reboot.

8.. In desperation, I brought the system to a Gateway Country Store. They
said they tested the motherboard, RAM, etc., and found no hardware problems.
They said they found and removed the Welchia worm. I was extremely doubtful
about this, given how I maintain my computer. But that's all they had to
offer. I took it home, it ran for about 30 hours, and the same crash
occurred, with the same original BSOD message (the original VideoCard had
been reinstalled, with the driver updated by Gateway when they had the
machine).

9.. I have also downloaded and run 'blastfix.exe' just in case something
had somehow got through, but it was negative.

10.. I have installed Windows Support Tools, in order to use dumpchk.exe
to look at the minidump files created when these events occurred, but I was
not able to identify anything useful in these files as far as suggesting the
source of this problem.

11.. These reboots have occurred from within a normal boot to Windows,
from within Safe Mode, and even on a few occasions when just trying to boot
into Windows Recovery Console when booting from the XP CD.

Gateway says the next step is to reformat the hard drive. I am willing and
able to do this, but I'm just not convinced this is a software issue,
especially when considering point # 11 above. But I am also out of ideas on
what to do next.

One final detail: the system came with a 120 GB Hard Drive. I used
Partition Magic 8.0 to shrink the OS/Applications to an 11 gb partition, and
have the rest for Data Files (c:\ and h:\ respectively). This was done
within the first few months of buying the computer. I use DriveImage 2002
every few months to image the c:\ drive, and have ones from December 7, 2003
and September 13, 2003 available. I have a second hard drive installed as
well (d:\) where these files are located. I can restore one of these, but
again I am not convinced this is a software issue.

I suspect, but don't know, that this is a sporadic hardware issue -
motherboard, CPU, RAM, I just don't know.


So there it is. I have a computer that is essential useless as I never know
if it will run 5 minutes, 5 hours or 5 days before it crashes. Please let
me know if you have any idea of where the problem is, or what I can do next
to pinpoint and fix it.

Thanks for wading through all of this.

Hopefully,
 
C

CWatters

A problem has been detected and windows has been shut down to prevent damage
to your computer

"PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA

****STOP: 0x00000050 (0xB7874E5E, 0x00000000, 0xB7874E5E, 0x00000000)

Does it say anything else before the PAGE_FAULT on screen? (For example
"win32k.sys had caused a PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA etc")

I assume there is no more info in the System Event logs (use Event Viewer)?

A web search on "ATI 8500 PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA STOP: 0x00000050" gets
a few hits including....
a) http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/6302/
...which seems to blame ati3d2ag.dll or possibly an IRQ conflict.

b) http://www.karlsforums.com/forums/viewthread.php?tid=9689

c) http://www.experts-exchange.com/Hardware/Q_20734080.html (scroll down)
Perhaps it's worth updating the drviers for the ATI card from their web
site if you haven't already done so.

d) This site in German seems to point the finger at something called
"PCAnywhere" if I got the translation right...
http://www.mcseboard.de/archiv/28/2003/07/2/7833

Quote: I experienced this same problem on my Dell Inspiron 8500. First I
thought, that SP1 caused the blue screen, but, after I your posts (I speak
English), translated and read, regarded I the programs, which I attached,
and I found, that pcAnywhere 10.5 the problem caused. After I deinstalliert
pcAnywhere, the problem away. End Quote:


I expect you have already seen these from MS....
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;329293

and the more general guides..

http://aumha.org/win5/kbestop.php

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tr...prodtechnol/winxppro/reskit/prmd_stp_ccgm.asp

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tr...prodtechnol/winxppro/reskit/prmd_stp_hyzf.asp

If you know what make/model of motherboard you have try a web search on..

"<motherboard> PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA STOP: 0x00000050"

Colin (not an MVP)
 
D

Don Cohen

Thank you very much for the reply. I have checked out some, and will check
out all, of your suggestions.

Regarding the SP1 link: I updated many, many months before this problem
started, so it's hard to relate it to that.

Many of the links reference the video driver as a possible source. Tell me
if I'm wrong, but these things would seem to eliminate this as the source:
---the same problem occurred with a physically different videocard with its
new driver
---no new hardware, driver or videocard was installed for many, many months
before this problem
---the reboot occurs even when I booted into Safe Mode, where presumably
(tell me if I'm wrong) the ATI driver is not loaded
---the reboot occurred even when booting into the Windows Recovery Console
via the XP Boot CD - again I would assume the ATI driver is not loaded in
this situation as well.

Is my thinking correct here?

I will check the Event Viewer again, but I do recall looking at this
previously, but don't recall it shedding any light on this.

My biggest question is how and if we can determine if this is a hardware or
software issue.

Thanks again.

Don
 
M

Malke

Don said:
Thank you very much for the reply. I have checked out some, and will
check out all, of your suggestions.

Regarding the SP1 link: I updated many, many months before this
problem started, so it's hard to relate it to that.

Many of the links reference the video driver as a possible source.
Tell me if I'm wrong, but these things would seem to eliminate this as
the source: ---the same problem occurred with a physically different
videocard with its new driver
---no new hardware, driver or videocard was installed for many, many
months before this problem
---the reboot occurs even when I booted into Safe Mode, where
presumably (tell me if I'm wrong) the ATI driver is not loaded
---the reboot occurred even when booting into the Windows Recovery
Console via the XP Boot CD - again I would assume the ATI driver is
not loaded in this situation as well.

Is my thinking correct here?

I will check the Event Viewer again, but I do recall looking at this
previously, but don't recall it shedding any light on this.

My biggest question is how and if we can determine if this is a
hardware or software issue.

It sounds like hardware to me. Here are some generic hardware
troubleshooting steps:

1) open the computer and run it open, cleaning out all dust bunnies and
observing all fans (overheating will cause system freezing); 2) test
the RAM - I like Memtest86 from www.memtest86.com - let the test run
for an extended (like overnight) period of time - unless errors are
seen immediately; 3) test the hard drive with a diagnostic utility from
the mftr.; 4) the power supply may be going bad or be inadequate for
the devices you have in the system; 5) test the motherboard with
something like TuffTest from www.tufftest.com. Testing hardware
failures often involves swapping out suspected parts with known-good
parts. If you can't do the testing yourself and/or are uncomfortable
opening your computer, take the machine to a good local computer repair
shop (not a CompUSA or Best Buy type of store).

Malke
 
M

Microsoft Video Driver OCA Triage

Don,
I would like to take a look at the minidumps that are created when your
system crashes. You can find these at c:\windows\minidump. If you could
attached the most recent 5-10 of these and mail them to
(e-mail address removed) that would be great. I will get back to you on what
seems to be causing your problem and hopefully have a suggested course of
action to fix your problem(s).

--
Thanks,
Lance Naugle
Microsoft Video Driver OCA Triage
(e-mail address removed)
* This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
 
D

Don Cohen

CWatters said:
Google also gets a few hits for Norton Antivirus in association with this
error so it's hard to be sure.


Have you found hits for this error occurring even when booting from the XP
CD? If so I haven't seen/found them, and would love to examine them. If
you wouldn't mind posting the link, I would appreciate it.

It seems that this (or similar) stop messages occur in a wide variety of
circumstances, some hardware, soft software (Lexar reader driver, NAV, ATI
drivers, etc.). But what makes me inclined to conclude that in my case it's
hardware is that the reboot occurred on a couple of occasions when booting
directly from the XP CD, trying to access the Windows Recovery Console, when
I selected the (only) XP partition present on my system. At that level, as
far as I know, no files/drivers/etc. from my hard drive were loaded or in
use, effectively eliminating a software cause to the problem.

Again, if you or someone else sees a flaw in my thinkng here, please point
it out.

Thanks again.

Don
 
F

Firejack

Hello.

Reading this topic is very interesting. It seems I'm having the same
problem. Although its only been affecting me for the last 4 days. 3 times
now my system has locked with a BSOD. I've checked all my settings, cables
etc. Run memtest86 to rule out memory errors. However I still get this
problem.
Tonight I ran dumpchk.exe and then pstat.exe and the results of all the 3
Minidumps share the similar reoccurring files DMusic.sys and kmixer.sys. I'm
beginning to think there is some issue with one or both of these but I can't
seem to track it down.

My OS is Windows XP Home with SP1
From startup I'm running NAV, Winamp, MSN Messenger and SETI@home.
System Spec: Athlon 2500+, Asus A7N8X Deluxe, 1 GB of Crucial PC2700,
Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro latest drivers for everything but the 9800 Pro.

Cheers,

Andrew.
 
T

tess tickles

Don Cohen said:
I desperately need help on the following problem which has stumped me (and
everybody else) for the last several weeks. I apologize for the length of


i had similar problems years ago and found it happened from not being
plugged into a truely grounded outlet. I'm no puter expert, but you may want
to take a peek at your power cords and power comeing from the house/apt
best of luck
 
D

Don Cohen

Hi Tess,
of


i had similar problems years ago and found it happened from not being
plugged into a truely grounded outlet. I'm no puter expert, but you may want
to take a peek at your power cords and power comeing from the house/apt
best of luck


Thanks for the reply. I have no doubt that outlet issues are one of the
many causes that can create problems like I've been having. In my case, the
problem occurred when I was plugged directly into the outlet, into the UPS
I'm using, etc. And nothing has changed here in the many years I've been
using this and other computers in this location.

In my case, I'm about 99% certain it's a faulty motherboard, creating low
and fluctuating voltage to the CPU core. A new one is en route even as I
type this, so I'll know in a few days if I'm right.

Best regards,

Don
 
A

Arthur Sludge

I too have had several weeks of bewilderment concerning random
rebooting with no BSOD. I tried checking the memory,reseating the
cards etc. For the record, it has turned out to be the optical (wired)
mouse. I swapped it with the ball mouse on my other PC and they are
both now fine. Lesson learned? It can be absolutely anything.
 

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