XP Repair Installation

M

Michael Solomon \(MS-MVP\)

William, you cannot borrow someone else's CD for this purpose as the repair
install requires the input of the CD key. Doing so would either result in a
rejection or causing problems for the original owner if and when he tries to
activate his setup again if necessary.

The best way around this and the best insurance against this type of
situation is an actual XP CD as opposed to some proprietary OEM. The cost
of the OS on your PC as provided by the manufacturer is negligible and
frankly, they don't do you much good by giving you this type of setup
because it denies you access to tools available in retail versions. If you
want the availability of this option now and in the future, it's going to
require a purchase.
 
B

Bill

In
William B. Lurie said:
Doug Knox:

Thank you for the following:

www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/helpandsupport/learnmore/tips/doug92.mspx

My situation is that my XP came in OEM form, with no
Microsoft Installation CD. The "Restore CD" furnished
by eMachines

<snip>

Say no more. You purchased an eMachine. Ergo ...

You got exactly what you paid for.

Or as my dad used to say .... You *made* your bed...... And now you have to
sleep in it.

Sorry,

Bill
 
W

William B. Lurie

Bill said:
In


<snip>

Say no more. You purchased an eMachine. Ergo ...

You got exactly what you paid for.

Or as my dad used to say .... You *made* your bed...... And now you have to
sleep in it.

Sorry,

Bill
Bill, I read you loud and clear, as we used to say.
But the situation is the same when buying just about
any OEM machine.....people bitch about HP......and
Dell......and Gateway.......for the same reasons.

Bill L.
 
B

Bruce Chambers

William said:
Bill, I read you loud and clear, as we used to say.
But the situation is the same when buying just about
any OEM machine.....people bitch about HP......and
Dell......and Gateway.......for the same reasons.

Bill L.


Actually, Dell and Gateway provide real installation CDs with their OEM
installations. Even HP provides a true installation CD with some
models. One just has to ask _before_ making the purchase.

--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH
 
B

Bill

In
Bruce Chambers said:
Actually, Dell and Gateway provide real installation CDs with their
OEM installations. Even HP provides a true installation CD with some
models. One just has to ask _before_ making the purchase.

Precisely.

I'll take your word about Gateway and HP, but I know for *sure* that Dell
supplies the "real deal".

Bill
 
R

Richard

William B. Lurie said:
Doug Knox:

Thank you for the following:

www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/helpandsupport/learnmore/tips/doug92.mspx

My situation is that my XP came in OEM form, with no
Microsoft Installation CD. The "Restore CD" furnished
by eMachines will lose all my installed programs and
data.

It's not out of the question that I might borrow somebody's
XP CD, but is there a way to avoid that subterfuge?


Bill,
How is it that you seem to have painted yourself into a corner and
need a repair install to put things right? From many of your previous
posts I got the impression that you back up your master drive to a
"clone" drive. If this is the case why not install it to recover to a
fully working system and then restore your data backups as necessary?

Richard.
 
J

Jim Macklin

All the Dell machines I have seen have both a restore CD and
a real MS CD (it does say Dell on it) but it is the same as
a MS CD.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.


| Bill wrote:
| > In | > William B. Lurie <[email protected]> typed:
| >
| >
| >>Doug Knox:
| >>
| >>Thank you for the following:
| >>
|| >>
| >>My situation is that my XP came in OEM form, with no
| >>Microsoft Installation CD. The "Restore CD" furnished
| >>by eMachines
| >
| >
| > <snip>
| >
| > Say no more. You purchased an eMachine. Ergo ...
| >
| > You got exactly what you paid for.
| >
| > Or as my dad used to say .... You *made* your bed......
And now you have to
| > sleep in it.
| >
| > Sorry,
| >
| > Bill
| >
| >
| Bill, I read you loud and clear, as we used to say.
| But the situation is the same when buying just about
| any OEM machine.....people bitch about HP......and
| Dell......and Gateway.......for the same reasons.
|
| Bill L.
 
D

DanS

In

<snip>

Say no more. You purchased an eMachine. Ergo ...

You got exactly what you paid for.

Or as my dad used to say .... You *made* your bed...... And now you
have to sleep in it.

Sorry,

Bill

bill,

while it may be true that eMachines are less expensive machines, what
machines out there come with a regular windows CD anymore ? i just fixed an
HP ($1500) that lost it's hard drive. all the data was there, it just
wouldn't boot from the NTFS partition. anyway, the HP configuration was
crap directly from HP. 'their' restore process offered no option's to NOT
lose all the data on the hard drive. the first thing i did was try a
'repair install', thru the hp tools, which ended up totally screwing
thing's up were the ntfs patition couldn't even be accessed anymore. i was
able to recover the important data, 30 gig's of it, ended up doing a re-
part., reformat, fresh install with a 'real' cd.

so, IMO, almost ALL HP, Compaq, Dell, Gateway, etc, are all crap. sad
thing's are is that the people that buy these usually don't know better.
or, they do, and when it comes in, immediately wipes and re-installs the
OS. really, how much does it cost to provide a 'real' (even an OEM type)
windows CD with a PC purchase ? really, the oem already bouught the license
from M$, includes the all the files in a folder on hard drive, so how much
can the 'physical' CD cost ? maybe $1 each. (while i can't say for sure,
i'm basing this figure on the fact that i know a local band in my area that
had cd's professionally made. this included the printed cd with the music,
a full size jewel case, and printed color front and back jewel case
insert's. they had 1000 made @ $1.70.)

so the owner of the PC i just fixed, got what he paid for too, an expansive
piece of crap, as opposed to a cheap one.
 
B

Bill

In
DanS said:
bill,

while it may be true that eMachines are less expensive machines, what
machines out there come with a regular windows CD anymore ?

All three of my Dells, and according to Bruce Chambers, all the Gateways,
and some HP's.

<snip>

Bill
 
W

William B. Lurie

Bill said:
In


All three of my Dells, and according to Bruce Chambers, all the Gateways,
and some HP's.

<snip>

Bill
Okay, Bill, I learned a lot in all these additions.
E-machines is obviously the #1 stinker, and HP
seems to be not far behind. I'll keep all these in mind the
next time I have to buy an OS...

WBL
 
W

William B. Lurie

Richard said:
Bill,
How is it that you seem to have painted yourself into a corner and
need a repair install to put things right? From many of your previous
posts I got the impression that you back up your master drive to a
"clone" drive. If this is the case why not install it to recover to a
fully working system and then restore your data backups as necessary?

Richard.
Richard, I am really nowhere near as inept or incapable as it
may sound. I've worked with PowerQuest Drive Image to make
an 'image' to then 'restore' to a copy of the original. I've
used PQ-DI-7 to make a Drive Copy. I've used PowerQuest
Partition Magic to "Copy" a Partition (e.g., Master Drive).
There always develop different facets of the same problem:
the cloned master does not boot. I've tried Recovery
Console and Fixboot and FixMBR. I've tried Repair Install.
I do CHKDSK, and I try working in Safe Mode.

The problem is always the same: the resultant clone will
boot fine in Slave position, jumpered as Slave, but only
by a fluke of some sort, not-reproducible, can I get it
to boot in Master position. The problem isn't in making
an exact clone of the Master drive; it's in getting it to
boot in Master position (like when it's running alone).

Your last sentence, Richard: why not? Because it isn't
just data backups. It's dozens of application programs to
be reinstalled from source CDs, or worse. They have to be
reinstalled, because just copying them doesn't do it; their
use is embedded in all the icons on desktop and in the
Registry.

Richard, any of those wise-asses out there who have nothing
better to do than chime in to tell me how dumb I am, just
haven't tried it themselves. With all the traffic you've read
here, it's strange that nobody (including Symantec and Power
Quest and the MVPs) has ever furnished a detailed, step-by-step
procedure, that works. If anybody has one, I'd be happy to
give it a try.

Bill Lurie
 
R

Richard

I must first apologise for inserting my replies between your
paragraphs,but in this case it should be more concise.
Richard, I am really nowhere near as inept or incapable as it
may sound. I've worked with PowerQuest Drive Image to make
an 'image' to then 'restore' to a copy of the original. I've
used PQ-DI-7 to make a Drive Copy. I've used PowerQuest
Partition Magic to "Copy" a Partition (e.g., Master Drive).
There always develop different facets of the same problem:
the cloned master does not boot. I've tried Recovery
Console and Fixboot and FixMBR. I've tried Repair Install.
I do CHKDSK, and I try working in Safe Mode.

I started with PQ and then Ghost 9. Using either there has been no problem
in making a bootable replacement HDD. Obviously I cannot from this distance
establish what went wrong when you tried the Image/ Restore method. I can
however promise you that it does work and it is the way that the designers
intended that it should be used. I actually Ghost my entire system including
OS, Programs, Data etc on a daily schedule. Manual intervention is only
necessary when testing the backup system's integrity or in the case of an
actual emergency.
The problem is always the same: the resultant clone will
boot fine in Slave position, jumpered as Slave, but only
by a fluke of some sort, not-reproducible, can I get it
to boot in Master position. The problem isn't in making
an exact clone of the Master drive; it's in getting it to
boot in Master position (like when it's running alone).

It is obvious that you have NOT made an exact clone of the Master drive. The
boot sector or drive status must contain errors or the clone would boot.

I am surprised that you have not gone back to the Image/Restore method and
sorted out your methodology.
Your last sentence, Richard: why not? Because it isn't
just data backups. It's dozens of application programs to
be reinstalled from source CDs, or worse. They have to be
reinstalled, because just copying them doesn't do it; their
use is embedded in all the icons on desktop and in the
Registry.

I must be mistaken as to the contents of your Master drive and it's clone. I
thought that both contained the OS, programs and data. If this were the case
you would only have to recover any data and added/removed programs since
your last cloning operation. If your backups are not complete why bother
with them at all ?
Richard, any of those wise-asses out there who have nothing
better to do than chime in to tell me how dumb I am, just
haven't tried it themselves. With all the traffic you've read
here, it's strange that nobody (including Symantec and Power
Quest and the MVPs) has ever furnished a detailed, step-by-step
procedure, that works. If anybody has one, I'd be happy to
give it a try.
Well I have tried both methods and they work. However I find Image/Restore
far superior as one can restore any file, folder etc without leaving
Windows. Replacing a broken drive, testing or recovering from a complete
cock-up are really the only times it is necessary to juggle with hard drives
and boot from the Recovery CD. The detailed, step-by-step procedures are all
contained in the manual. I found that following the on-screen prompts after
a read through quite sufficient.
Two pointers that are worth following. When booting from the recovery CD
keep your eyes on the screen and watch out for the "press any key to boot
from the CD" it is only there for about 5 seconds and if missed the recovery
process will abort. When presented with options use the defaults in the
first instance, even if you think you know better, you can always run the
process a second time if required.

Richard
 
B

Bob Harris

You might be able to get your personal files off the PC, before doing the
restore/destroy with the e-machines provided CD.

If the partiton with your data is FAT32, you could use a DOS boot floppy.

If it is NTFS (likely with OEM XP), then a DOS floppy plus NTFS drivers will
permit copying off the hard drive. The necessary read-only/copy drivers are
free from www.sysinternals.com. If your PC has no internal floppy, think
about adding one, as they are cheap. However, you could also make a
bootable CD from a floppy. Both Easy CD Creator and Nero can do this.

If your PC does not currently boot first from floppy, second from CD, third
from hard drive, you will need to change the BIOS setting under the BOOT
tab.

Of course, you need some place to copy the files TO. If you have a second
hard drive, second partition on the primary hard drive, ZIP, or other
internal drive this is easy. If you have nothing else internal, there are
USB drivers for DOS, but quite frankly I have had limited luck with them.
And, then, there is the good old floppy, although that is usually a bit
small.

Then, there are several LINUX-based rescue CDs. I have had excellent
results with KNOPPIX.

Finally, there are several disk imaging programs that could copy your entire
hard drive to an external hard drive as an image (single compressed file).
Many programs in this category permit the recovery of selected files or
directory trees. For example, Norton GHOST and Acronis True Image. ( I
prefer True Image 8 over GHOST 2003, although the newer GHOST 9 sounds
interesting, but it also might be more limited in some ways.) So, after the
PC is "fixed", you could get back only the files you want. The detailed
steps for such a save/restore of files would be something like:

1. buy software
2. install temporarily on a good PC
3. make bootable media with backup/restore software (floppies or CD)
4. run backup form old PC to external USB disk
5. move external disk to working PC and verify you can extract single
file(s). This processes is called Ghost explorer or mounting an image,
depending on the software, and it only works on the PC with the
softwareinstalled, not from the bootable media.
6. if step 5 works, use the OEM CD to "fix" the PC.
7. recover fils with the other PC to any media that the repaied PC can
read, including as single files/directories on the USB disk.
8. copy file back to repaired PC.
Then,
9. uninstall backup program from good PC and install it on now-repaired PC.
10. make a backup of the now repaired PC. This can be used instead of the
emachines CDROM, and it is more current.
11. In the future, make occassional backups of the PC, so you can return to
last week, or last month, instead of day-one. Do this especially just
before installing/unindtalling software or updates to software, including XP
updates.
12. More frequently, backup personal files. XP's windows explorer or the
DOS-like commands "COPY" or "XCOPY" work very well on persoanl files. (They
do not work on key system files.) Be sure to use the /V parameter, where
"V" means verify, or check that the copy matches the original. For more
informtion on these command, type the command followed by /? in a command
prompt window.

Good luck.
 
K

Ken Blake

In
DanS said:
while it may be true that eMachines are less expensive
machines, what
machines out there come with a regular windows CD anymore ?


I assume that, by "a *regular* windows CD," you mean an
installation CD as opposed to a restore CD or a hidden restore
partition.

The answer is many. All Dell machines do, and I believe Gateways
do too. And virtually all of the machines that are custom-built
by local vendors.

There are certainly some national brands that don't, but those
can be (and should be, as far as I'm concerned) avoided.
 
W

William B. Lurie

Ken said:
In



I assume that, by "a *regular* windows CD," you mean an
installation CD as opposed to a restore CD or a hidden restore
partition.
Yes, a genuine XP Installation CD, from which the OS
can be installed, or maybe even was installed.
The answer is many. All Dell machines do, and I believe Gateways
do too. And virtually all of the machines that are custom-built
by local vendors.
Well, Compaq and HP, I believe, do not. This has been
"live and learn" for me. My 98, even though made by an
OEM, had a full Installation CD. eMachines was exceptionally
good about mail-in replacements for a hard drive and also
a floppy drive that failed in the first six months, but
no help at all in fixing software glitches. Their answer always is
"The Restore CD will get you back to a new clean system".
 
S

Sharon F

The problem is always the same: the resultant clone will
boot fine in Slave position, jumpered as Slave, but only
by a fluke of some sort, not-reproducible, can I get it
to boot in Master position. The problem isn't in making
an exact clone of the Master drive; it's in getting it to
boot in Master position (like when it's running alone).

Bill, I skip the cloned disk scenario. Instead I use disk images. That
image (an image file, not a cloned drive) gets stored on another drive. If
needed, it gets restored to the original drive. Takes about 10 minutes - 20
or 30 if I run the "validate" option after the restore.

Only mention this since your clone approach has not had desired results so
far. Am thinking that you might like to have another option available for
disaster recovery. You have the software for this already. You would just
be using different features from the programs.
 
W

William B. Lurie

Sharon said:
Bill, I skip the cloned disk scenario. Instead I use disk images. That
image (an image file, not a cloned drive) gets stored on another drive. If
needed, it gets restored to the original drive. Takes about 10 minutes - 20
or 30 if I run the "validate" option after the restore.

Only mention this since your clone approach has not had desired results so
far. Am thinking that you might like to have another option available for
disaster recovery. You have the software for this already. You would just
be using different features from the programs.
Sharon, as usual I may not have included every one of the facts.
In using Drive Image 7, the lack of being able to boot as Master
applies equally to the "Copy one Drive to another" mode and the
"Back up Drive Image" mode, which is what I believe you suggested.
In either case, the copied or restored drive always boots if
placed at Slave, but is only rarely bootable where one would
normally want it, namely, back where its original was, as the
Master drive. It seems to me that one of the available tools
should be able to overcome this ("fixboot" or "fixmbr" maybe,
but real information on how to use them, I haven't found yet).
 
S

Sharon F

Sharon, as usual I may not have included every one of the facts.
In using Drive Image 7, the lack of being able to boot as Master
applies equally to the "Copy one Drive to another" mode and the
"Back up Drive Image" mode, which is what I believe you suggested.

I don't know the wording in the programs you are using (I use Image for
Windows) but I do not create a copy of a drive - so no, that is not what
I'm suggesting. While my imaging software is capable of creating a cloned
drive, what I'm describing is different than what you're currently doing.

I create an image file - it is not bootable. When viewed in Windows
Explorer, I see a single huge file - not a copy of the original drive. To
restore an image, I run a program. Tell it to access the saved image file
and tell it what drive to restore the image to. The program then "unpacks"
the image file to the drive to recreate a working operating system. Unload
the imaging program. Restart the computer and I'm back in business.
 
W

William B. Lurie

Sharon said:
I don't know the wording in the programs you are using (I use Image for
Windows) but I do not create a copy of a drive - so no, that is not what
I'm suggesting. While my imaging software is capable of creating a cloned
drive, what I'm describing is different than what you're currently doing.

I create an image file - it is not bootable. When viewed in Windows
Explorer, I see a single huge file - not a copy of the original drive. To
restore an image, I run a program. Tell it to access the saved image file
and tell it what drive to restore the image to. The program then "unpacks"
the image file to the drive to recreate a working operating system. Unload
the imaging program. Restart the computer and I'm back in business.
Right. That is the "Back up Drive Image" that PowerQuest (now Symantec)
does. Their "PowerQuest Recovery Environment" "unpacks" the image to
make the original again. And it does. But when I go to "Restart the
computer", I am not in business. The restored drive will boot only
as slave....not as Master. Something is wrong with the way the Master
Boot Record is set up, (boot.ini looks correct), or something,
I know not what.......which is why I'm here asking what or how.....
It boots, past the black+logo Windows screen, to the blue Windows+
logo screen, but *not* to the "loading your personal settings" screen.
Ay, thereby hangs the rub.

Bill L.
 

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