WiFi security issues? Newbie ? for W7

Discussion in 'DIY PC' started by RayLopez99, Dec 19, 2010.

  1. RayLopez99

    RayLopez99 Guest

    I'm switching to Windows 7 on my new laptop and I wonder if there are
    WiFi issues I should be aware of. I normally have this machine wired
    to a hub on a wired modem/router and so I don't use WiFi, but I'm
    thinking if I do, there should be some gotchas. Yes this is an anti-
    virus question, don't be stupid you a.c.a-v freaks. For the rest of
    you, even you Linux freaks, this should be right up your alley.

    I have newbie questions such as:

    1) Password. You are supposed to change the Default Password from
    "linksys" to something else that's hard to crack. Is this done in the
    WiFi hardware installation or by Win7?

    2) Public vs private network. W7 has a distinction, but all I can
    tell is that when sharing a WiFi say at Starbucks, you switch to
    "public" from "private" by clicking on the "public" icon in W7 as
    shown by numerous HOWTO sites on the web--is that it? Is there
    anything more?

    3) What if, assuming I get wireless for the home (like I say right now
    I got everything at home wired, but I might switch to wireless now
    that I got this new laptop), you find that a neighbor is sharing your
    wireless connection? I hear this is possible, but does that person
    need a password? I think they do. If I give them a password, will
    they be able to read my files on my hard drive, or just be able to
    share my internet connection? I don't mind the latter, unless they
    are a download hog, but I mind the former.

    Any advice "appreciated", even from you critics that think they know
    it all. You know who you are. Yeah you. Ash whole.

    RL
     
    RayLopez99, Dec 19, 2010
    #1
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  2. RayLopez99

    Mike Easter Guest

    RayLopez99 wrote:
    Newsgroups: alt.comp.anti-virus, microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,
    alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt, comp.os.linux.setup

    Not antivirus, not vista, not homebuilt, not linux setup - and RL
    doesn't read some of the groups that he crossposts to

    f/ups to cols only - which is where I read the message

    > 1) Password. You are supposed to change the Default Password from
    > "linksys"


    http://bit.ly/hIi5eZ+ This article will guide you on how to change the
    password of your Linksys router.

    > 2) Public vs private network. W7 has a distinction,


    http://grok.lsu.edu/Article.aspx?articleid=13097 Windows 7: Changing
    Between Public and Private Networks

    > 3) What if,


    <regarding wi-fi security>

    You should configure your wireless with WPA secured password. You can
    get in 'trouble' if someone uses your connectivity for bad purposes.



    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Dec 19, 2010
    #2
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  3. RayLopez99

    TVeblen Guest

    On 12/19/2010 5:38 AM, RayLopez99 wrote:
    > I'm switching to Windows 7 on my new laptop and I wonder if there are
    > WiFi issues I should be aware of. I normally have this machine wired
    > to a hub on a wired modem/router and so I don't use WiFi, but I'm
    > thinking if I do, there should be some gotchas. Yes this is an anti-
    > virus question, don't be stupid you a.c.a-v freaks. For the rest of
    > you, even you Linux freaks, this should be right up your alley.
    >
    > I have newbie questions such as:
    >
    > 1) Password. You are supposed to change the Default Password from
    > "linksys" to something else that's hard to crack. Is this done in the
    > WiFi hardware installation or by Win7?
    >
    > 2) Public vs private network. W7 has a distinction, but all I can
    > tell is that when sharing a WiFi say at Starbucks, you switch to
    > "public" from "private" by clicking on the "public" icon in W7 as
    > shown by numerous HOWTO sites on the web--is that it? Is there
    > anything more?
    >
    > 3) What if, assuming I get wireless for the home (like I say right now
    > I got everything at home wired, but I might switch to wireless now
    > that I got this new laptop), you find that a neighbor is sharing your
    > wireless connection? I hear this is possible, but does that person
    > need a password? I think they do. If I give them a password, will
    > they be able to read my files on my hard drive, or just be able to
    > share my internet connection? I don't mind the latter, unless they
    > are a download hog, but I mind the former.
    >
    > Any advice "appreciated", even from you critics that think they know
    > it all. You know who you are. Yeah you. Ash whole.
    >
    > RL


    You will set up your wireless router by connecting it to your PC with an
    ethernet cable (temporarily). You enter the router setup by following
    the instructions in your manual. For linksys you open a web browser and
    type the address http://192.168.1.1 and Go.

    The router setup is where you name your network and setup your wireless
    security.

    Password:
    "Linksys" or "Netgear" are not the passwords you should concern yourself
    with. They are the default names of your wireless network. You should
    change the name of your network to something less identifiable.
    Something like 7X5gT0, not something like "Apt 322" or "Joe's House".
    Your new router will allow you to enter the setup by using the User Name
    "admin" and a blank password. After entering the setup and making sure
    your wireless network is working you should change these. Normal User
    Name and Password rules work here like any website.
    The point is you do not want your neighbor to see "Joe's House" as a
    possible connection and then just log in to your router setup using
    linksys and no password. Unbelievably, this is the way a lot of wireless
    routers are set up.

    Wireless Security:
    The wireless security type you use must be capable in your wireless
    devices. Only very old devices can't handle advanced security encryption.
    The security types you can choose from are WEP, WPA, and WPA-2. WEP is
    antiquated and useless. WPA is good and WPA-2 is better.
    Here is where you will be asked to come up with an Encyption Key. This
    is the "password" that is important. Linksys automatically generates a
    20+ character key. The longer the key, the better the security.
    This key is what you will need to get your PC and any other wireless
    device to use the wireless connection.

    In Windows
    You will see a wireless connection named 7X5gT0 in your Network. You
    click on it and there will be a "Connect" button. Click that and it will
    connect to the router and up will pop the "Password" screen. Here you
    type in that 20+ character Encryption Key to be able to use the wireless
    network. Somewhere in here Windows will ask if this is a Home or Public
    Network. A home network is treated as a private (secure) network by
    Windows. A Public network is treated as an open, unsecured network
    connection.
    When you installed and set up Windows the OS asked if your PC was part
    of a Home or Public Network. You may need to change that in Network &
    Sharing Center.

    Hope that helps.
     
    TVeblen, Dec 19, 2010
    #3
  4. RayLopez99

    Dustin Guest

    RayLopez99 <> wrote in news:0f6f8bd4-d3a2-4239-
    :

    > I'm switching to Windows 7 on my new laptop and I wonder if there are
    > WiFi issues I should be aware of. I normally have this machine wired
    > to a hub on a wired modem/router and so I don't use WiFi, but I'm
    > thinking if I do, there should be some gotchas. Yes this is an anti-
    > virus question, don't be stupid you a.c.a-v freaks. For the rest of
    > you, even you Linux freaks, this should be right up your alley.
    >
    > I have newbie questions such as:


    That's probably because you are a newbie. <G>
    Dude, just type "how do I setup a secure wifi network?" in google.
    You'll get *all* of those questions answered in a very helpful fashion.
    Newbie style; so you will have no trouble understanding it. If you have
    questions after doing this, then present them to the appropriate place.
    Say, a networking newsgroup?

    I'm not sure why you mentioned linux or windows in the post tho;
    Neither of those are relevent for what your doing with the router. It
    matters on the PC side sure, but not the router usually.

    > Any advice "appreciated", even from you critics that think they know
    > it all. You know who you are. Yeah you. Ash whole.


    I consider myself neither critic nor friend. Neutral for the most part.
    I'd point out an error if I found one in any persons post; and I would
    expect/hope they'd do the same for me. Information is only worth
    something if it's accurate ya know.


    --
    Hackers are generally only very weakly motivated by conventional
    rewards such as social approval or money. They tend to be attracted by
    challenges and excited by interesting toys, and to judge the interest
    of work or other activities in terms of the challenges offered and the
    toys they get to play with.
     
    Dustin, Dec 19, 2010
    #4
  5. RayLopez99

    RayLopez99 Guest

    Re: WiFi security issues? Newbie ? for W7

    On Dec 19, 3:28 pm, TVeblen <> wrote:
    > On 12/19/2010 5:38 AM, RayLopez99 wrote:
    > You will set up your wireless router by connecting it to your PC with an
    > ethernet cable (temporarily). You enter the router setup by following
    > the instructions in your manual. For linksys you open a web browser and
    > type the addresshttp://192.168.1.1and Go.
    >
    > The router setup is where you name your network and setup your wireless
    > security.
    >
    > Password:
    > "Linksys" or "Netgear" are not the passwords you should concern yourself
    > with. They are the default names of your wireless network. You should
    > change the name of your network to something less identifiable.
    > Something like 7X5gT0, not something like "Apt 322" or "Joe's House".
    > Your new router will allow you to enter the setup by using the User Name
    > "admin" and a blank password. After entering the setup and making sure
    > your wireless network is working you should change these. Normal User
    > Name and Password rules work here like any website.
    > The point is you do not want your neighbor to see "Joe's House" as a
    > possible connection and then just log in to your router setup using
    > linksys and no password. Unbelievably, this is the way a lot of wireless
    > routers are set up.


    OK, so apparently a human recognizable network name is a sign of
    unsophistication and invites hackers. Got it.


    >
    > Wireless Security:
    > The wireless security type you use must be capable in your wireless
    > devices. Only very old devices can't handle advanced security encryption.
    > The security types you can choose from are WEP, WPA, and WPA-2. WEP is
    > antiquated and useless. WPA is good and WPA-2 is better.
    > Here is where you will be asked to come up with an Encyption Key. This
    > is the "password" that is important. Linksys automatically generates a
    > 20+ character key. The longer the key, the better the security.
    > This key is what you will need to get your PC and any other wireless
    > device to use the wireless connection.


    Question: the longer the key the better the security, but I think
    (from my experience) the longer the key the slower the connection too,
    right? Maybe not radically slower, but it should be slower with a
    bigger key. Please confirm.


    >
    > In Windows
    > You will see a wireless connection named 7X5gT0 in your Network. You
    > click on it and there will be a "Connect" button. Click that and it will
    > connect to the router and up will pop the "Password" screen. Here you
    > type in that 20+ character Encryption Key to be able to use the wireless
    > network. Somewhere in here Windows will ask if this is a Home or Public
    > Network. A home network is treated as a private (secure) network by
    > Windows. A Public network is treated as an open, unsecured network
    > connection.


    Question: why would anybody use a public network then, such as
    Starbucks? Why do people do this? They don't care if people read
    their email, is that it? Or does Starbucks always have HTTPS?


    > When you installed and set up Windows the OS asked if your PC was part
    > of a Home or Public Network. You may need to change that in Network &
    > Sharing Center.
    >
    > Hope that helps.


    Yes it does, thanks.

    RL
     
    RayLopez99, Dec 20, 2010
    #5
  6. RayLopez99

    RayLopez99 Guest

    Re: WiFi security issues? Newbie ? for W7

    On Dec 19, 5:27 pm, Steel <""Fake99XX1199999fake\"@(Big)
    (Steel)theXfactor.com"> wrote:

    >
    > In the public domain, you only want to go to sites that are using HTTPS
    > or your machine has a VPN connection to the site both use encryption, if
    > credentials are needed to login to the site.


    How would you know if it's HTTPS? Does a little padlock icon show up,
    like in Firefox? Also do most airports and Starbucks, in your
    experience, have VPN and/or HTTPS?



    > If using WPA on the router, then the wireless client must know the
    > password for the WPA in order to access the wireless.
    >


    OK, thanks.

    >
    > I use my Droid as the 3G Mobile Hotspot for my wireless laptop, which I
    > am using now, and it's WPA2 enabled.


    Do you think the bigger (longer) the encryption key, the slower the
    connection? Classic communications theory predicts that, but I'm
    curious if anybody has seen it in practice. Maybe it's only 10% so
    people don't really notice.

    RL
     
    RayLopez99, Dec 20, 2010
    #6
  7. RayLopez99

    RayLopez99 Guest

    Re: WiFi security issues? Newbie ? for W7

    On Dec 19, 11:24 pm, Dustin <> wrote:

    >
    > That's probably because you are a newbie. <G>
    > Dude, just type "how do I setup a secure wifi network?" in google.
    > You'll get *all* of those questions answered in a very helpful fashion.
    > Newbie style; so you will have no trouble understanding it. If you have
    > questions after doing this, then present them to the appropriate place.
    > Say, a networking newsgroup?
    >


    Thanks. After reading this article:
    http://www.labnol.org/internet/secure-your-wireless-wifi-network/10549/
    I've concluded a wireless network is inherently insecure. Might not
    end up using it at home.

    Practical question: when at airports, Starbucks, etc, and you want to
    send an email, do you do so with impunity or with the chance somebody
    can steal your password when you log on? I might end up just using
    the laptop at such "public" places so I need more info on what to do
    there.

    Also what is the usenet group for networking? I use Google Groups and
    could not find any.

    RL
     
    RayLopez99, Dec 20, 2010
    #7
  8. RayLopez99

    RayLopez99 Guest

    Re: WiFi security issues? Newbie ? for W7

    On Dec 20, 5:13 am, Steel <""Fake99XX1199999fake\"@(Big)
    (Steel)theXfactor.com"> wrote:
    > On 12/19/2010 8:28 PM, RayLopez99 wrote:
    >
    > > On Dec 19, 5:27 pm, Steel<""Fake99XX1199999fake\"@(Big)
    > > (Steel)theXfactor.com">  wrote:

    >
    > >> In the public domain, you only want to go to sites that are using HTTPS
    > >> or your machine has a VPN connection to the site both use encryption, if
    > >> credentials are needed to login to the site.

    >
    > > How would you know if it's HTTPS?  Does a little padlock icon show up,
    > > like in Firefox?  Also do most airports and Starbucks, in your
    > > experience, have VPN and/or HTTPS?

    >
    > Do you mean to tell me that you have never been to a Website that is
    > using HTTPS:\\ in the URL? If you have been to a bank site or any other
    > site that is using HTTPS as a secure connection, like a site you
    > purchase things with a credit card, you are going to clearly see the
    > HTTPS:\\ as part of the URL in the browser's address line.


    OK, as I thought: the little padlock.

    >
    > As for the VPN, the link below should explain it. You also have ISP(s)
    > that have VPN as part of their customer package, which you can do a VPN
    > over wireless in a public hotspot to get protected email and other
    > things provided by a VPN enabled ISP.
    >
    > http://www.plathome.com/products/packetix/manual/html/10-12.htm


    I see. I have signed up for Steganos VPN (1 year license $99, kind of
    expensive, now expired for me) and I will do so again (unless you can
    direct me to a free version) for when using this laptop in a public
    hotspot. Thanks for the tip.

    >
    > > Do you think the bigger (longer) the encryption key, the slower the
    > > connection?  Classic communications theory predicts that, but I'm
    > > curious if anybody has seen it in practice.  Maybe it's only 10% so
    > > people don't really notice.

    >
    > I have not paid any attention to it, because wireless is slower than a
    > wire connection, a given to be expected when using wireless. I have not
    > seen any download speed degradation in using the Droid as a hotspot and
    > doing downloads to the laptop
    >
    > I also use the Droid smartphone about 99.9%, which can do everything the
    > laptop can do in a personal usage situation while I am traveling,  from
    > doing MS Office documents to going into HTTPS sessions over wireless
    > with the HTTPS showing in the smartphone browser's address line, doing
    > Usenet,  email with my ISP and Gmail too -- all of it. All that I was
    > doing on the laptop, I do with the smartphone.


    Interesting. Do you think Droid or Windows 7 is more compatible for
    international travel? Kind of like a US carrier (good only for the
    US) vs AT&T (which has the best international coverage)? I travel a
    lot internationally, and though I swap the SIM card on my mobile phone
    eventually, I always carry the AT&T cell phone since in almost every
    country it will work at the airport (but expensive). Same for Droid
    vs W7 smartphones?

    RL
     
    RayLopez99, Dec 20, 2010
    #8
  9. RayLopez99

    TVeblen Guest

    Re: WiFi security issues? Newbie ? for W7

    On 12/19/2010 8:25 PM, RayLopez99 wrote:
    > On Dec 19, 3:28 pm, TVeblen<> wrote:
    >> On 12/19/2010 5:38 AM, RayLopez99 wrote:
    >> You will set up your wireless router by connecting it to your PC with an
    >> ethernet cable (temporarily). You enter the router setup by following
    >> the instructions in your manual. For linksys you open a web browser and
    >> type the addresshttp://192.168.1.1and Go.
    >>
    >> The router setup is where you name your network and setup your wireless
    >> security.
    >>
    >> Password:
    >> "Linksys" or "Netgear" are not the passwords you should concern yourself
    >> with. They are the default names of your wireless network. You should
    >> change the name of your network to something less identifiable.
    >> Something like 7X5gT0, not something like "Apt 322" or "Joe's House".
    >> Your new router will allow you to enter the setup by using the User Name
    >> "admin" and a blank password. After entering the setup and making sure
    >> your wireless network is working you should change these. Normal User
    >> Name and Password rules work here like any website.
    >> The point is you do not want your neighbor to see "Joe's House" as a
    >> possible connection and then just log in to your router setup using
    >> linksys and no password. Unbelievably, this is the way a lot of wireless
    >> routers are set up.

    >
    > OK, so apparently a human recognizable network name is a sign of
    > unsophistication and invites hackers. Got it.
    >
    >
    >>
    >> Wireless Security:
    >> The wireless security type you use must be capable in your wireless
    >> devices. Only very old devices can't handle advanced security encryption.
    >> The security types you can choose from are WEP, WPA, and WPA-2. WEP is
    >> antiquated and useless. WPA is good and WPA-2 is better.
    >> Here is where you will be asked to come up with an Encyption Key. This
    >> is the "password" that is important. Linksys automatically generates a
    >> 20+ character key. The longer the key, the better the security.
    >> This key is what you will need to get your PC and any other wireless
    >> device to use the wireless connection.

    >
    > Question: the longer the key the better the security, but I think
    > (from my experience) the longer the key the slower the connection too,
    > right? Maybe not radically slower, but it should be slower with a
    > bigger key. Please confirm.
    >
    >
    >>
    >> In Windows
    >> You will see a wireless connection named 7X5gT0 in your Network. You
    >> click on it and there will be a "Connect" button. Click that and it will
    >> connect to the router and up will pop the "Password" screen. Here you
    >> type in that 20+ character Encryption Key to be able to use the wireless
    >> network. Somewhere in here Windows will ask if this is a Home or Public
    >> Network. A home network is treated as a private (secure) network by
    >> Windows. A Public network is treated as an open, unsecured network
    >> connection.

    >
    > Question: why would anybody use a public network then, such as
    > Starbucks? Why do people do this? They don't care if people read
    > their email, is that it? Or does Starbucks always have HTTPS?
    >
    >
    >> When you installed and set up Windows the OS asked if your PC was part
    >> of a Home or Public Network. You may need to change that in Network&
    >> Sharing Center.
    >>
    >> Hope that helps.

    >
    > Yes it does, thanks.
    >
    > RL



    Hey Ray
    My understanding is that the actual encryption of the data is performed
    by an algorithm built into the security protocol and is randomly
    generated. The "Encryption Code" I mentioned is technically the
    "Pre-Shared Key (PSK)". And the PSK is simply a "password". So the
    length of the key is for security in a password sense and has no direct
    effect on the actual encrytion algorithm.
    Sorry for the confusion.

    Wireless networks are inherently insecure. You are broadcasting your
    data like a radio station. That is the trade off we make for the ease
    and convenience of wireless.
    Fortunately, it takes effort to actually hack into someones wireless
    network, so the current security measures we have are effective in a
    real world sense. Only a tiny percentage of the population has the
    know-how, and you have to have something they want for them to go
    through the trouble. The biggest issue, by far, is people "free riding"
    on your internet connection. Not master criminals trying to steal your
    stuff.
    A little common sense goes a long way when using wireless, or computers
    in general. If you work for the US State Department maybe you want to be
    more careful. But if you are Joe-Shmoe no one cares - really!

    Wireless security we have today is like having locks on your doors. Do
    these provide security? Yes they Do. Do they provide complete
    protection? Of course not! But you probably don't need to live in a
    concrete bunker given the probability of the risks.
     
    TVeblen, Dec 20, 2010
    #9
  10. Re: WiFi security issues? Newbie ? for W7

    Per TVeblen:
    > Only a tiny percentage of the population has the
    >know-how, and you have to have something they want for them to go
    >through the trouble. The biggest issue, by far, is people "free riding"
    >on your internet connection. Not master criminals trying to steal your
    >stuff.
    >A little common sense goes a long way when using wireless, or computers
    >in general. If you work for the US State Department maybe you want to be
    >more careful. But if you are Joe-Shmoe no one cares - really!


    Given that, could somebody list a dumbed-down version of the
    real-world hazards associated with just leaving a home WAP
    "Public" - i.e. with no password needed.

    Seems like that would be the case with a lot of small restaurants
    and other businesses where they don't subscribe to one of the
    commercial "Free WiFi" services.
    --
    PeteCresswell
     
    (PeteCresswell), Dec 20, 2010
    #10
  11. RayLopez99

    TVeblen Guest

    Re: WiFi security issues? Newbie ? for W7

    On 12/20/2010 9:00 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
    > Per TVeblen:
    >> Only a tiny percentage of the population has the
    >> know-how, and you have to have something they want for them to go
    >> through the trouble. The biggest issue, by far, is people "free riding"
    >> on your internet connection. Not master criminals trying to steal your
    >> stuff.
    >> A little common sense goes a long way when using wireless, or computers
    >> in general. If you work for the US State Department maybe you want to be
    >> more careful. But if you are Joe-Shmoe no one cares - really!

    >
    > Given that, could somebody list a dumbed-down version of the
    > real-world hazards associated with just leaving a home WAP
    > "Public" - i.e. with no password needed.
    >
    > Seems like that would be the case with a lot of small restaurants
    > and other businesses where they don't subscribe to one of the
    > commercial "Free WiFi" services.


    For me, it depends on who lives around me. If I know I've got teen-aged,
    tech capable, geeks living next door then I don't want to give her a new
    hobby!
     
    TVeblen, Dec 20, 2010
    #11
  12. RayLopez99

    RayLopez99 Guest

    Re: WiFi security issues? Newbie ? for W7

    On Dec 20, 3:02 pm, Steel <""Fake99XX1199999fake\"@(Big)
    (Steel)theXfactor.com"> wrote:

    >
    > >> As for the VPN, the link below should explain it. You also have ISP(s)
    > >> that have VPN as part of their customer package, which you can do a VPN
    > >> over wireless in a public hotspot to get protected email and other
    > >> things provided by a VPN enabled ISP.

    >
    > >>http://www.plathome.com/products/packetix/manual/html/10-12.htm

    >
    > > I see.  I have signed up for Steganos VPN (1 year license $99, kind of
    > > expensive, now expired for me) and I will do so again (unless you can
    > > direct me to a free version) for when using this laptop in a public
    > > hotspot.  Thanks for the tip.

    >
    > I couldn't tell you if an ISP is free with a VPN. I suspect the VPN
    > service will not be free.


    Thanks. I found the right VPN services to use, it is this one, not
    Steganos, see here:


    http://bestvpnreviews.com/top-3-vpn-services/vpn4all-basic-review

    VPN4All Basic Review is best overall, works even in China!

    HideMyAss Pro VPN Review http://bestvpnreviews.com/category/vpn-reviews
    is second best

    RL
     
    RayLopez99, Dec 20, 2010
    #12
  13. RayLopez99

    mm Guest

    On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 02:38:52 -0800 (PST), RayLopez99
    <> wrote:

    >
    >3) What if, assuming I get wireless for the home (like I say right now
    >I got everything at home wired, but I might switch to wireless now
    >that I got this new laptop), you find that a neighbor is sharing your
    >wireless connection? I hear this is possible, but does that person
    >need a password?


    I got a laptop from Ebay about 3 years ago. I should have started
    shopping earlier, and had to buy what was available, and it arrived
    only 3 days before i was to leave on a long trip to Asia.

    It came with 3 methods of internet, a port that accepted a phone cord,
    a PC port (PCMCIA) that accepted the included Network Jack card and
    the included wireless card. One of them required installing software,
    so I was doing that. I didn't have DSL yet, so I was going to have to
    use a flashdrive to transport files from my desk computer to the
    laptop.

    Half way through doing that, I noticed that my laptop was dl'ing my
    email and my newsgroups! It turned out I was using one of my
    neighbors' broadband/wireless. It's a good thing, too, because it
    saved me a lot of time I needed for packing, etc.

    When I got back two months later, there was a password on her account.

    AIUI, I didn't cost her anything. I didn't even slow her down.

    I've run my network without encryption or a password for some of the
    time since, and so far, I'm the only MM2005 listed in the phone book.
    So I guess no one has stolen my identity yet.

    > I think they do. If I give them a password, will
    >they be able to read my files on my hard drive, or just be able to
    >share my internet connection?


    I thought files, directories, and printers had to be checked as Shared
    before even you can read those files or use the printer on your own
    network, and you have to have the password too. So as long as I
    don't put any files in my one Shared directory, I thought I was safe.
    Yes?

    Is that correct?

    > I don't mind the latter, unless they
    >are a download hog, but I mind the former.
     
    mm, Dec 20, 2010
    #13
  14. RayLopez99

    Sjouke Burry Guest

    Re: WiFi security issues? Newbie ? for W7

    (PeteCresswell) wrote:
    > Per TVeblen:
    >> Only a tiny percentage of the population has the
    >> know-how, and you have to have something they want for them to go
    >> through the trouble. The biggest issue, by far, is people "free riding"
    >> on your internet connection. Not master criminals trying to steal your
    >> stuff.
    >> A little common sense goes a long way when using wireless, or computers
    >> in general. If you work for the US State Department maybe you want to be
    >> more careful. But if you are Joe-Shmoe no one cares - really!

    >
    > Given that, could somebody list a dumbed-down version of the
    > real-world hazards associated with just leaving a home WAP
    > "Public" - i.e. with no password needed.
    >
    > Seems like that would be the case with a lot of small restaurants
    > and other businesses where they don't subscribe to one of the
    > commercial "Free WiFi" services.


    Somebody downloading childsporno or wikileaks through your wifi,
    to avoid being traced.
    So the trace points to your wifi, and you might get a visit
    from police or FBI.
     
    Sjouke Burry, Dec 20, 2010
    #14
  15. RayLopez99

    Dustin Guest

    Re: WiFi security issues? Newbie ? for W7

    RayLopez99 <> wrote in
    news::

    > On Dec 19, 11:24 pm, Dustin <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> That's probably because you are a newbie. <G>
    >> Dude, just type "how do I setup a secure wifi network?" in google.
    >> You'll get *all* of those questions answered in a very helpful
    >> fashion. Newbie style; so you will have no trouble understanding
    >> it. If you have questions after doing this, then present them to
    >> the appropriate place. Say, a networking newsgroup?
    >>

    >
    > Thanks. After reading this article:
    > http://www.labnol.org/internet/secure-your-wireless-wifi-network/1054
    > 9/ I've concluded a wireless network is inherently insecure. Might
    > not end up using it at home.


    I have wireless disabled presently; Only use it when it's not feasable
    to run a hardline.

    > Practical question: when at airports, Starbucks, etc, and you want
    > to send an email, do you do so with impunity or with the chance
    > somebody can steal your password when you log on? I might end up
    > just using the laptop at such "public" places so I need more info on
    > what to do there.


    I've answered as much as i'm going to do so; as I see you've
    crossposted this all over the place... Very trollish behavior... btw.

    > Also what is the usenet group for networking? I use Google Groups
    > and could not find any.


    I found an alt.comp.networking.routers newsgroup on this server.. Your
    milage may vary.



    --
    Hackers are generally only very weakly motivated by conventional
    rewards such as social approval or money. They tend to be attracted by
    challenges and excited by interesting toys, and to judge the interest
    of work or other activities in terms of the challenges offered and the
    toys they get to play with.
     
    Dustin, Dec 21, 2010
    #15
  16. RayLopez99

    Dustin Guest

    David Brown <> wrote in
    news::

    > You may /think/ that you haven't shared your files, but if I can see
    > your computer on a network (and wireless networks are easily cracked
    > - WPA in seconds, WPA2 takes several minutes) I can type "net use x:
    > \\computer\c$ /user:Administrator" and try to guess your password.
    > Using Linux rather than Windows makes such an attack easier to
    > automate, but it can be done with Windows too.


    I think you meant wep was cracked in seconds. Please provide reference
    urls discussing WPA cracked in seconds. I'd like to learn more. Thanks.

    Those hidden shares can be disabled. They aren't available on these
    machines here; for example.

    > Obviously enabling the windows firewall will make such a simple
    > attack very much harder - but certainly not impossible.


    A hardware based firewall which filters netbios requests helps nicely
    too. :)




    --
    Hackers are generally only very weakly motivated by conventional rewards
    such as social approval or money. They tend to be attracted by
    challenges and excited by interesting toys, and to judge the interest of
    work or other activities in terms of the challenges offered and the toys
    they get to play with.
     
    Dustin, Dec 21, 2010
    #16
  17. David Brown wrote:
    > On 20/12/10 15:46, mm wrote:
    >> On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 02:38:52 -0800 (PST), RayLopez99
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> 3) What if, assuming I get wireless for the home (like I say right now
    >>> I got everything at home wired, but I might switch to wireless now
    >>> that I got this new laptop), you find that a neighbor is sharing your
    >>> wireless connection? I hear this is possible, but does that person
    >>> need a password?

    >>
    >> I got a laptop from Ebay about 3 years ago. I should have started
    >> shopping earlier, and had to buy what was available, and it arrived
    >> only 3 days before i was to leave on a long trip to Asia.
    >>
    >> It came with 3 methods of internet, a port that accepted a phone cord,
    >> a PC port (PCMCIA) that accepted the included Network Jack card and
    >> the included wireless card. One of them required installing software,
    >> so I was doing that. I didn't have DSL yet, so I was going to have to
    >> use a flashdrive to transport files from my desk computer to the
    >> laptop.
    >>
    >> Half way through doing that, I noticed that my laptop was dl'ing my
    >> email and my newsgroups! It turned out I was using one of my
    >> neighbors' broadband/wireless. It's a good thing, too, because it
    >> saved me a lot of time I needed for packing, etc.
    >>
    >> When I got back two months later, there was a password on her account.
    >>
    >> AIUI, I didn't cost her anything. I didn't even slow her down.
    >>
    >> I've run my network without encryption or a password for some of the
    >> time since, and so far, I'm the only MM2005 listed in the phone book.
    >> So I guess no one has stolen my identity yet.
    >>
    >>> I think they do. If I give them a password, will
    >>> they be able to read my files on my hard drive, or just be able to
    >>> share my internet connection?

    >>
    >> I thought files, directories, and printers had to be checked as Shared
    >> before even you can read those files or use the printer on your own
    >> network, and you have to have the password too. So as long as I
    >> don't put any files in my one Shared directory, I thought I was safe.
    >> Yes?
    >>
    >> Is that correct?
    >>

    >
    > I'm assuming you are using Windows.
    >
    > /Everything/ is shared by default - you have to specifically disable the
    > file sharing service to stop it.


    Not in my experience. Getting file sharing to work on a windows LAN
    requires that you do a lot of configuration, starting with turning
    netbios on, then exporting various things as shares, and finishing with
    removing most of the firewalling that is the default way of working.


    In particular, there are a number of
    > "default shares" that are (AFAIK) always enabled in windows unless the
    > whole file sharing service is disabled - you don't need to explicitly
    > share them. For every drive, there is a share named "c$", "d$", etc.,
    > that is available to any user with Administrator privileges. These
    > default shares are hidden, in the sense that they don't show up in
    > normal network browsing or "net view \\computer", but you can connect to
    > them easily enough.
    >
    > You may /think/ that you haven't shared your files, but if I can see
    > your computer on a network (and wireless networks are easily cracked -
    > WPA in seconds, WPA2 takes several minutes)


    I think it takes a bit longer than that..

    I can type "net use x:
    > \\computer\c$ /user:Administrator" and try to guess your password. Using
    > Linux rather than Windows makes such an attack easier to automate, but
    > it can be done with Windows too.
    >


    So that's two passwords to fight past, and hope the man has indeed got
    windows netbios on, and the firewall off..which if he is a domestic
    single user he will not have enabled either of.


    > Obviously enabling the windows firewall will make such a simple attack
    > very much harder - but certainly not impossible.


    Windows is utter crap, but it's not THAT crappy.
     
    The Natural Philosopher, Dec 21, 2010
    #17
  18. David Brown wrote:
    > On 21/12/2010 06:19, Dustin wrote:
    >> David Brown<> wrote in
    >> news::
    >>
    >>> You may /think/ that you haven't shared your files, but if I can see
    >>> your computer on a network (and wireless networks are easily cracked
    >>> - WPA in seconds, WPA2 takes several minutes) I can type "net use x:
    >>> \\computer\c$ /user:Administrator" and try to guess your password.
    >>> Using Linux rather than Windows makes such an attack easier to
    >>> automate, but it can be done with Windows too.

    >>
    >> I think you meant wep was cracked in seconds. Please provide reference
    >> urls discussing WPA cracked in seconds. I'd like to learn more. Thanks.
    >>

    >
    > Note - I haven't tried this myself.
    >
    > You may be right that it is just WEP that can be cracked in seconds. WPA
    > and WPA2 cracking seems to be done using dictionary attacks on the
    > pre-shared keys - thus it can be fast or slow depending on the quality
    > of the password chosen. The WPA/WPA2 cracking is done by capturing a
    > few packets (not many are needed, apparently) and running the cracking
    > off-line. With big rainbow tables and a fast cracker computer, this
    > often won't take long.
    >
    > If you are using "enterprise" WPA rather than pre-shared key WPA, it's a
    > different matter - cracking is pretty much infeasible.
    >
    >> Those hidden shares can be disabled. They aren't available on these
    >> machines here; for example.
    >>

    >
    > Yes, but how many people know how to do that - even if they know the
    > hidden shares exist in the first place?
    >
    >>> Obviously enabling the windows firewall will make such a simple
    >>> attack very much harder - but certainly not impossible.

    >>
    >> A hardware based firewall which filters netbios requests helps nicely
    >> too. :)
    >>

    >
    > Absolutely true - hardware firewalls are far more effective than windows
    > softwrae firewalls for blocking unwanted external traffic. Software
    > firewalls on windows are good for limiting outgoing traffic from
    > specific programs, but not good enough to protect from external attacks.


    they are certainly good enough to repel all but the most determined hackers.

    But who expects the NSA to come sniffing round in a black van stuffed
    with supercomputers and packet sniffers?

    Not me, Osama ;-)
     
    The Natural Philosopher, Dec 21, 2010
    #18
  19. RayLopez99

    TVeblen Guest

    On 12/21/2010 9:15 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    > David Brown wrote:
    >> On 21/12/2010 06:19, Dustin wrote:
    >>> David Brown<> wrote in
    >>> news::
    >>>
    >>>> You may /think/ that you haven't shared your files, but if I can see
    >>>> your computer on a network (and wireless networks are easily cracked
    >>>> - WPA in seconds, WPA2 takes several minutes) I can type "net use x:
    >>>> \\computer\c$ /user:Administrator" and try to guess your password.
    >>>> Using Linux rather than Windows makes such an attack easier to
    >>>> automate, but it can be done with Windows too.
    >>>
    >>> I think you meant wep was cracked in seconds. Please provide reference
    >>> urls discussing WPA cracked in seconds. I'd like to learn more. Thanks.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Note - I haven't tried this myself.
    >>
    >> You may be right that it is just WEP that can be cracked in seconds.
    >> WPA and WPA2 cracking seems to be done using dictionary attacks on the
    >> pre-shared keys - thus it can be fast or slow depending on the quality
    >> of the password chosen. The WPA/WPA2 cracking is done by capturing a
    >> few packets (not many are needed, apparently) and running the cracking
    >> off-line. With big rainbow tables and a fast cracker computer, this
    >> often won't take long.
    >>
    >> If you are using "enterprise" WPA rather than pre-shared key WPA, it's
    >> a different matter - cracking is pretty much infeasible.
    >>
    >>> Those hidden shares can be disabled. They aren't available on these
    >>> machines here; for example.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Yes, but how many people know how to do that - even if they know the
    >> hidden shares exist in the first place?
    >>
    >>>> Obviously enabling the windows firewall will make such a simple
    >>>> attack very much harder - but certainly not impossible.
    >>>
    >>> A hardware based firewall which filters netbios requests helps nicely
    >>> too. :)
    >>>

    >>
    >> Absolutely true - hardware firewalls are far more effective than
    >> windows softwrae firewalls for blocking unwanted external traffic.
    >> Software firewalls on windows are good for limiting outgoing traffic
    >> from specific programs, but not good enough to protect from external
    >> attacks.

    >
    > they are certainly good enough to repel all but the most determined
    > hackers.
    >
    > But who expects the NSA to come sniffing round in a black van stuffed
    > with supercomputers and packet sniffers?
    >
    > Not me, Osama ;-)
    >


    Are you trying to say that everyone is not interested in everything I do?
    I'm going to go and cry now.......
     
    TVeblen, Dec 21, 2010
    #19
  20. TVeblen wrote:
    > On 12/21/2010 9:15 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


    >>
    >> But who expects the NSA to come sniffing round in a black van stuffed
    >> with supercomputers and packet sniffers?
    >>
    >> Not me, Osama ;-)
    >>

    >
    > Are you trying to say that everyone is not interested in everything I do?
    > I'm going to go and cry now.......


    No. Merely that the ones who are, are not likely to be clever enough to
    find out.
    ;=-)
     
    The Natural Philosopher, Dec 21, 2010
    #20
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