WD Elements SE

[William Brown]

I have a New 500Gb drive, how long do I wait for the drive to shut down
after its removed from the USB Port.?

 

[Don Phillipson]

I have a New 500Gb drive, how long do I wait for the drive to shut down
after its removed from the USB Port.?

This is non-standard. WinXP is designed to add an external USB
icon to the Systray when a device is connected: and this icon has
a menu (Right Click) to shut down by command.

 

[Arno]

I have a New 500Gb drive, how long do I wait for the drive to shut down
after its removed from the USB Port.?

Not at all. Use safe remove though.

Arno

 

[William Brown]

This is non-standard. WinXP is designed to add an external USB
icon to the Systray when a device is connected: and this icon has
a menu (Right Click) to shut down by command.

I have all that and a better one Call USB Safely Remove, this is not
what I am asking how long does the drive take to spin down so its safe
to move..

 

[William Brown]

Not at all. Use safe remove though.

Arno

Yes I have USB Safely Remove a far better progam that XP, but the Drive
light is still flashing, so after I unplug the drive is it safe to move
or do I have to wait 10Mins..?

 

[Rod Speed]

William Brown wrote

Yes I have USB Safely Remove a far better
progam that XP, but the Drive light is still flashing,

Then it isnt far better than XP.

so after I unplug the drive is it safe to move
Nope.

or do I have to wait 10Mins..?

You need to power down the drive before moving it if it isnt getting the power from the USB ports.

 

[Arno]

Not at all. Use safe remove though.

Arno

Yes I have USB Safely Remove a far better progam that XP, but the Drive
light is still flashing, so after I unplug the drive is it safe to move
or do I have to wait 10Mins..?[/QUOTE]

Ah, you have to unplug the power as well, wait about 30 seconds
and then you can move it.

Arno

 

[Arno]

The heads park immediately, and the drive stops spinning almost
instantly when unplugged from the USB connector.

They should. They not always do. Better unplug the power
and wait about 30 seconds.

If you do
the safely remove procedure first, that should physically shut
down the drive.

Huh? Since when? And why should it do that? Safe remove
only flushes the OS buffers to disk.

In fact, if the drive is optimized for safe removal
in Device Manager, you don't need the safe removal process. Just
give it a few seconds after the last write, then unplug it, and you're
good to go.

Not with regard to head parking and platter spining. That takes
15 seconds or so, so better wait 30 seconds after power unplug.

If the drive is still flashing after running your safely remove
program, that app is obviously not working properly.

I agree.

Arno

 

[Arno]

On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 08:46:25 -0500, "Don Phillipson"



I have all that and a better one Call USB Safely Remove, this is not
what I am asking how long does the drive take to spin down so its safe
to move..

The last time I looked this up in a drive datasheet, it was
15 seconds after power has been removed. So better wait 30
seconds after unplugging the power connection.

Arno

 

[Rod Speed]

Arno wrote

They should. They not always do. Better unplug the power
Yes.

and wait about 30 seconds.

You dont need to wait that long.

Huh? Since when?

Since forever.

And why should it do that?

Because thats the way its designed to operate.

Safe remove only flushes the OS buffers to disk.

It also sends a shut down command to the drive,
and most drives will shut down when they get that.

You can see that with drives that have an active led.

Not with regard to head parking and platter spining. That takes 15 seconds or so,

No it doesnt with many drives.

so better wait 30 seconds after power unplug.

You dont usually need to wait that long and you can check
how long it takes for a particular drive to spin down by
putting your hand on the drive, you can usually feel it.

 

[Rod Speed]

Arno wrote

The last time I looked this up in a drive datasheet,
it was 15 seconds after power has been removed.

You need to look at the datasheets of modern drives.

So better wait 30 seconds after unplugging the power connection.

Better to feel low long it takes to spin down.

 

[Arno]

What I have found on any hard drive including the WD Passport,
is that, the instant power is removed, the heads park immediately.
The moment the servo coil loses current, the heads are moved
to the parking ramp, by the parking spring. That's to prevent a
head crash due to the rapid platter spin down. Also, all rotation is
lost in about 3 seconds, at most. Dynamic braking is used to stop
the platters.

Then 5 seconds would be enough. However I doubt this number for
3.5" drives. There is far too much rotational energy in the
platter-stack. The 15 seconds is from one of the first Maxtor
fluid-bearing 200GB HDDs where I read the technical drive manual.
It seems these are difficult to get today, all you get is a
2-3 page datasheet instead of the ~150 pages drive manual.

To confirm this I held a running WD Passport to my ear, then
pulled the USB plug. There was an instant "sproing" sound of
the heads parking, and all rotation ceased within 2 seconds.

The original question is somewhat irrelevant for current 2.5" drives
as most are designed to withstand up to 300 Gs while operating.
The WD Scorpios are. A 3 to 4 foot drop onto concrete might
produce a 100 G shock, at most, to a bare drive. Inside a portable
case, the shock would be less.

Well, for 2.5" notebook drives, you are likely correct. For
3.5" drives, the situation is a bit different. As there was
talk about the drive LED being active after unplug, I assume
an externally powered drive and that would in most case
be 3.5".

Incidentally, your G-force calculations are wrong. A bare drive
onto concrete would be braked down (aluminum case deformation)
in something like < 0.1mm onto concrete. That gives you a < 10cm
maximum drop (about 1/4 foot for the metrically challenged),
and possibly much less in practice, if the aluminum case hits in a
way that it does not deform. Also note that this is for a very
clean landing only, no spinning or bouncing.

300G sounds like a lot, but HDDs are still raw eggs. It seems 10cm
is also about what a raw egg can drop on a hard surface without
breaking, although I have no idea how reliable this data is:

http://professionaldevelopment.ibo.org/files/ocd/Egg_Dropping_Activity.pdf

Arno

 

[William Brown]

Ah, you have to unplug the power as well, wait about 30 seconds
and then you can move it.

Arno

Thanks

That's this it what I was thinking.

Info on USB Safely Remove


http://safelyremove.com/


Devices can be turned off a on Again, as long as they are not unplugged
and it list all USB devices that are connected to the PC.

I know it works with my 2 Seagate USB drives as the light goes out.

Will have to double check with the WD drive.

 

[William Brown]

What I have found on any hard drive including the WD Passport,
is that, the instant power is removed, the heads park immediately.
The moment the servo coil loses current, the heads are moved
to the parking ramp, by the parking spring. That's to prevent a
head crash due to the rapid platter spin down. Also, all rotation is
lost in about 3 seconds, at most. Dynamic braking is used to stop
the platters.

To confirm this I held a running WD Passport to my ear, then
pulled the USB plug. There was an instant "sproing" sound of
the heads parking, and all rotation ceased within 2 seconds.

The original question is somewhat irrelevant for current 2.5" drives
as most are designed to withstand up to 300 Gs while operating.
The WD Scorpios are. A 3 to 4 foot drop onto concrete might
produce a 100 G shock, at most, to a bare drive. Inside a portable
case, the shock would be less.

Can these drives when Running handle a Earth Quake, as the After Shocks
in Christchurch NZ has kill stacks of Hard Drives, into the hundreds I
think.

No I don't live any were near Christchurch but was on the TV news here.

I had a fiend ? that lifted the WD drive up a few inches at a angle
when it was running, my thinking that due to gyroscopic forces this
might cause the heads to crash.?

 

[Arno]

Can these drives when Running handle a Earth Quake, as the After Shocks
in Christchurch NZ has kill stacks of Hard Drives, into the hundreds I
think.

Earthquakes will not go into the mechanical shock magnitudes
that HDDs cannot tolerate. The killed HDDs in NZ will be due
to racks falling over, overheating, and power-surges. Earthquakes
stay below 1G of acceleration.

No I don't live any were near Christchurch but was on the TV news here.

I had a fiend ? that lifted the WD drive up a few inches at a angle
when it was running, my thinking that due to gyroscopic forces this
might cause the heads to crash.?

That is a risk, but due to better bearings, this risk is small.
You need to apply significant acceleration for this to happen
today.

Arno

 

[Rod Speed]

Can these drives when Running handle a Earth Quake, as the After
Shocks in Christchurch NZ has kill stacks of Hard Drives, into the
hundreds I think.

No I don't live any were near Christchurch but was on the TV news here.

I had a fiend ? that lifted the WD drive up a few inches at a angle
when it was running, my thinking that due to gyroscopic forces this
might cause the heads to crash.?

Nope, the most it might do is affect the bearings, not the heads.

 

[Ed Light]

Earthquakes will not go into the mechanical shock magnitudes
that HDDs cannot tolerate. The killed HDDs in NZ will be due
to racks falling over, overheating, and power-surges. Earthquakes
stay below 1G of acceleration.

How about being on a machine with a motor, like a refrigerator, or a
subwoofer? Or something that buzzes?
--
Ed Light

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Thanks, robots.

 

[Rod Speed]

Ed Light wrote

Arno wrote

How about being on a machine with a motor, like a refrigerator,

Those motors are adequately spring mounted and survive earthquakes fine.

or a subwoofer?

Those arent even affected by eathquakes, the cone mounts are
plenty strong enough because the cone weights are so low.

Or something that buzzes?

Bees are earthquake proof as long as the quake doesnt topple the hives.

 

[William Brown]

How about being on a machine with a motor, like a refrigerator, or a
subwoofer? Or something that buzzes?

These were just Home and Office PC's not rack ones at all.

I see if I can find a link for this problem.

 

[Arno]

On 1/8/2011 7:17 AM, Arno wrote:

How about being on a machine with a motor, like a refrigerator, or a
subwoofer? Or something that buzzes?

Refrigerator: no problem at all, the motors are mounted in rubber.
Subwoofer: Depends, but the sound may be a problem, see here:

Any kind of "hard buzz" may be very problematic.

Arno