Too funny MS ad in Visual Studio Magazine...

Discussion in 'Microsoft Dot NET' started by Rob R. Ainscough, Aug 5, 2005.

  1. MS Visual Studio Ad contained in VS Magazine.

    Two developers in "hip" clothing diagramming out a huge flow chart on a
    beach.

    I could NOT stop laughing at the stupidity of the ad -- "Let your ideas run
    free"....only to be washed up by the waves when the tide comes in -- this is
    exactly so so so Microsoft. Re-invent the dev tools every 3-5 years in the
    name of progress and hope developers don't notice -- good revenue generation
    for MS, bad career move for developers as they scramble to deal with the
    latest crap from MS only to find out it can't do what it used to do, but it
    does support the Web development better now -- I mean "isn't everyone doing
    web development"??

    Get a clue Microsoft.

    P.S. -- those two guys you have in the Ad, you need to get out more and see
    what real developers look like -- it isn't something out of GQ.
     
    Rob R. Ainscough, Aug 5, 2005
    #1
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  2. <<Re-invent the dev tools every 3-5 years in the
    > name of progress and hope developers don't notice >>


    Is that what they did? I didn't notice ;-(

    <<good revenue generation
    > for MS, bad career move for developers as they scramble to deal with the
    > latest crap from MS only to find out it can't do what it used to do, but
    > it does support the Web development better now -- I mean "isn't everyone
    > doing web development"??>>

    Yep, I know that $35.00 upgrade price from VS.NET to 2003 must have brought
    in tons of cash for Microsoft. But I'm not sure what the rest of your
    point is.... What doesn't VS.NET do that previous versions did? I'm able to
    do everythign I was able to before and a whole lot more. Yep, I can even
    consume those old COM dlls I wrote a few years back without a hitch. If
    learning .NET was a bad career move on my part, I need about 10 more just
    like it b/c life is a lot easier these days and I make a h3ll of a lot more
    money.

    So since you're obviously looking to ruffle features, please, by all means,
    cite some specifics. My Microsoft stock has been trading flat for a while
    now and if they're raking in the revenue from VS.NET, well, I need to get
    Bill on the phone and find out where my money is.
    "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > MS Visual Studio Ad contained in VS Magazine.
    >
    > Two developers in "hip" clothing diagramming out a huge flow chart on a
    > beach.
    >
    > I could NOT stop laughing at the stupidity of the ad -- "Let your ideas
    > run free"....only to be washed up by the waves when the tide comes in --
    > this is exactly so so so Microsoft. Re-invent the dev tools every 3-5
    > years in the name of progress and hope developers don't notice -- good
    > revenue generation for MS, bad career move for developers as they scramble
    > to deal with the latest crap from MS only to find out it can't do what it
    > used to do, but it does support the Web development better now -- I mean
    > "isn't everyone doing web development"??
    >
    > Get a clue Microsoft.
    >
    > P.S. -- those two guys you have in the Ad, you need to get out more and
    > see what real developers look like -- it isn't something out of GQ.
    >
    >
     
    W.G. Ryan MVP, Aug 5, 2005
    #2
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  3. Rob R. Ainscough

    clintonG Guest

    Don't get me started.

    You haven't seen nothing until you spend more than a decade trying to do
    business using products such as AutoCAD from Autodesk. I know people in
    general fail to understand how fundamental CAD has become to the nation's
    economy and the extent to which it is all subversively controlled and
    corrupted by Autodesk. There are 'official' documents indicating the
    numbers run into billions of annual losses within each market Autodesk
    subversively corrupts and controls. When all is added up one subversive and
    corrupt corporate parasite can be shown to be responsible for nearly a
    trillion dollars of annual losses imputed into the US economy.

    <%= Clinton Gallagher
    METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
    NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
    URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
    URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/


    "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > MS Visual Studio Ad contained in VS Magazine.
    >
    > Two developers in "hip" clothing diagramming out a huge flow chart on a
    > beach.
    >
    > I could NOT stop laughing at the stupidity of the ad -- "Let your ideas
    > run free"....only to be washed up by the waves when the tide comes in --
    > this is exactly so so so Microsoft. Re-invent the dev tools every 3-5
    > years in the name of progress and hope developers don't notice -- good
    > revenue generation for MS, bad career move for developers as they scramble
    > to deal with the latest crap from MS only to find out it can't do what it
    > used to do, but it does support the Web development better now -- I mean
    > "isn't everyone doing web development"??
    >
    > Get a clue Microsoft.
    >
    > P.S. -- those two guys you have in the Ad, you need to get out more and
    > see what real developers look like -- it isn't something out of GQ.
    >
    >
     
    clintonG, Aug 5, 2005
    #3
  4. 1. Recording lock in ADO.NET -- more hoops -- SQL time (UPDLOCK) and
    BeginTransactions
    2. Brain dead debugger -- I'd like to see the contents of that item in the
    collection and/or datatable (debug.writeline -- ugh!)
    3. Buggy as hell IDE (even more buggy with ASP.NET - Web dev projects) --
    Index Services issues with web development
    4. .NET framework v1.1 missing A LOT of features making virtually
    impossible to remain "managed" -- consume old COM dlls at your own risk but
    I see why you would since .NET framework v1.1 is so limited
    5. $2000+/yr single developer if your into this game at any serious level
    6. Connection management
    7. OOP the MS way -- but I don't want my child to inherit ALL the
    properties of the parent, well ya got create an New grandparent and inherit
    from that (oh joy)
    8. terrible help & search
    ....

    And the list goes on and on.

    This is progress? Just think how much money you could have made if MS had a
    clue...

    "W.G. Ryan MVP" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > <<Re-invent the dev tools every 3-5 years in the
    >> name of progress and hope developers don't notice >>

    >
    > Is that what they did? I didn't notice ;-(
    >
    > <<good revenue generation
    >> for MS, bad career move for developers as they scramble to deal with the
    >> latest crap from MS only to find out it can't do what it used to do, but
    >> it does support the Web development better now -- I mean "isn't everyone
    >> doing web development"??>>

    > Yep, I know that $35.00 upgrade price from VS.NET to 2003 must have
    > brought in tons of cash for Microsoft. But I'm not sure what the rest of
    > your point is.... What doesn't VS.NET do that previous versions did? I'm
    > able to do everythign I was able to before and a whole lot more. Yep, I
    > can even consume those old COM dlls I wrote a few years back without a
    > hitch. If learning .NET was a bad career move on my part, I need about 10
    > more just like it b/c life is a lot easier these days and I make a h3ll of
    > a lot more money.
    >
    > So since you're obviously looking to ruffle features, please, by all
    > means, cite some specifics. My Microsoft stock has been trading flat for
    > a while now and if they're raking in the revenue from VS.NET, well, I need
    > to get Bill on the phone and find out where my money is.
    > "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> MS Visual Studio Ad contained in VS Magazine.
    >>
    >> Two developers in "hip" clothing diagramming out a huge flow chart on a
    >> beach.
    >>
    >> I could NOT stop laughing at the stupidity of the ad -- "Let your ideas
    >> run free"....only to be washed up by the waves when the tide comes in --
    >> this is exactly so so so Microsoft. Re-invent the dev tools every 3-5
    >> years in the name of progress and hope developers don't notice -- good
    >> revenue generation for MS, bad career move for developers as they
    >> scramble to deal with the latest crap from MS only to find out it can't
    >> do what it used to do, but it does support the Web development better
    >> now -- I mean "isn't everyone doing web development"??
    >>
    >> Get a clue Microsoft.
    >>
    >> P.S. -- those two guys you have in the Ad, you need to get out more and
    >> see what real developers look like -- it isn't something out of GQ.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Rob R. Ainscough, Aug 5, 2005
    #4
  5. You've got to be kidding me. Is this actually the top of your list of
    gripes? I'm 100% pro visual studio and I still have more serious gripes
    than this.
    "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > 1. Recording lock in ADO.NET -- more hoops -- SQL time (UPDLOCK) and
    > BeginTransactions
    > 2. Brain dead debugger -- I'd like to see the contents of that item in
    > the collection and/or datatable (debug.writeline -- ugh!)
    > 3. Buggy as hell IDE (even more buggy with ASP.NET - Web dev projects) --
    > Index Services issues with web development
    > 4. .NET framework v1.1 missing A LOT of features making virtually
    > impossible to remain "managed" -- consume old COM dlls at your own risk
    > but I see why you would since .NET framework v1.1 is so limited
    > 5. $2000+/yr single developer if your into this game at any serious level
    > 6. Connection management
    > 7. OOP the MS way -- but I don't want my child to inherit ALL the
    > properties of the parent, well ya got create an New grandparent and
    > inherit from that (oh joy)
    > 8. terrible help & search
    > ...
    >
    > And the list goes on and on.
    >
    > This is progress? Just think how much money you could have made if MS had
    > a clue...
    >
    > "W.G. Ryan MVP" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> <<Re-invent the dev tools every 3-5 years in the
    >>> name of progress and hope developers don't notice >>

    >>
    >> Is that what they did? I didn't notice ;-(
    >>
    >> <<good revenue generation
    >>> for MS, bad career move for developers as they scramble to deal with the
    >>> latest crap from MS only to find out it can't do what it used to do, but
    >>> it does support the Web development better now -- I mean "isn't everyone
    >>> doing web development"??>>

    >> Yep, I know that $35.00 upgrade price from VS.NET to 2003 must have
    >> brought in tons of cash for Microsoft. But I'm not sure what the rest
    >> of your point is.... What doesn't VS.NET do that previous versions did?
    >> I'm able to do everythign I was able to before and a whole lot more.
    >> Yep, I can even consume those old COM dlls I wrote a few years back
    >> without a hitch. If learning .NET was a bad career move on my part, I
    >> need about 10 more just like it b/c life is a lot easier these days and I
    >> make a h3ll of a lot more money.
    >>
    >> So since you're obviously looking to ruffle features, please, by all
    >> means, cite some specifics. My Microsoft stock has been trading flat
    >> for a while now and if they're raking in the revenue from VS.NET, well, I
    >> need to get Bill on the phone and find out where my money is.
    >> "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> MS Visual Studio Ad contained in VS Magazine.
    >>>
    >>> Two developers in "hip" clothing diagramming out a huge flow chart on a
    >>> beach.
    >>>
    >>> I could NOT stop laughing at the stupidity of the ad -- "Let your ideas
    >>> run free"....only to be washed up by the waves when the tide comes in --
    >>> this is exactly so so so Microsoft. Re-invent the dev tools every 3-5
    >>> years in the name of progress and hope developers don't notice -- good
    >>> revenue generation for MS, bad career move for developers as they
    >>> scramble to deal with the latest crap from MS only to find out it can't
    >>> do what it used to do, but it does support the Web development better
    >>> now -- I mean "isn't everyone doing web development"??
    >>>
    >>> Get a clue Microsoft.
    >>>
    >>> P.S. -- those two guys you have in the Ad, you need to get out more and
    >>> see what real developers look like -- it isn't something out of GQ.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    W.G. Ryan MVP, Aug 5, 2005
    #5
  6. List is not in any order, nor is it complete or final in anyway -- never
    suggested it was hence why I said "And the list goes on and on...".

    Do you want me to play the "hit your specific gripe on head" game -- it's
    easier if you list YOUR SERIOUS gripes cause I'm certain that MVP entitles
    you to have more SERIOUS GRIPES than anyone else. ;)



    "W.G. Ryan MVP" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > You've got to be kidding me. Is this actually the top of your list of
    > gripes? I'm 100% pro visual studio and I still have more serious gripes
    > than this.
    > "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> 1. Recording lock in ADO.NET -- more hoops -- SQL time (UPDLOCK) and
    >> BeginTransactions
    >> 2. Brain dead debugger -- I'd like to see the contents of that item in
    >> the collection and/or datatable (debug.writeline -- ugh!)
    >> 3. Buggy as hell IDE (even more buggy with ASP.NET - Web dev
    >> projects) -- Index Services issues with web development
    >> 4. .NET framework v1.1 missing A LOT of features making virtually
    >> impossible to remain "managed" -- consume old COM dlls at your own risk
    >> but I see why you would since .NET framework v1.1 is so limited
    >> 5. $2000+/yr single developer if your into this game at any serious
    >> level
    >> 6. Connection management
    >> 7. OOP the MS way -- but I don't want my child to inherit ALL the
    >> properties of the parent, well ya got create an New grandparent and
    >> inherit from that (oh joy)
    >> 8. terrible help & search
    >> ...
    >>
    >> And the list goes on and on.
    >>
    >> This is progress? Just think how much money you could have made if MS
    >> had a clue...
    >>
    >> "W.G. Ryan MVP" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> <<Re-invent the dev tools every 3-5 years in the
    >>>> name of progress and hope developers don't notice >>
    >>>
    >>> Is that what they did? I didn't notice ;-(
    >>>
    >>> <<good revenue generation
    >>>> for MS, bad career move for developers as they scramble to deal with
    >>>> the latest crap from MS only to find out it can't do what it used to
    >>>> do, but it does support the Web development better now -- I mean "isn't
    >>>> everyone doing web development"??>>
    >>> Yep, I know that $35.00 upgrade price from VS.NET to 2003 must have
    >>> brought in tons of cash for Microsoft. But I'm not sure what the rest
    >>> of your point is.... What doesn't VS.NET do that previous versions did?
    >>> I'm able to do everythign I was able to before and a whole lot more.
    >>> Yep, I can even consume those old COM dlls I wrote a few years back
    >>> without a hitch. If learning .NET was a bad career move on my part, I
    >>> need about 10 more just like it b/c life is a lot easier these days and
    >>> I make a h3ll of a lot more money.
    >>>
    >>> So since you're obviously looking to ruffle features, please, by all
    >>> means, cite some specifics. My Microsoft stock has been trading flat
    >>> for a while now and if they're raking in the revenue from VS.NET, well,
    >>> I need to get Bill on the phone and find out where my money is.
    >>> "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>> MS Visual Studio Ad contained in VS Magazine.
    >>>>
    >>>> Two developers in "hip" clothing diagramming out a huge flow chart on a
    >>>> beach.
    >>>>
    >>>> I could NOT stop laughing at the stupidity of the ad -- "Let your ideas
    >>>> run free"....only to be washed up by the waves when the tide comes
    >>>> in -- this is exactly so so so Microsoft. Re-invent the dev tools
    >>>> every 3-5 years in the name of progress and hope developers don't
    >>>> notice -- good revenue generation for MS, bad career move for
    >>>> developers as they scramble to deal with the latest crap from MS only
    >>>> to find out it can't do what it used to do, but it does support the Web
    >>>> development better now -- I mean "isn't everyone doing web
    >>>> development"??
    >>>>
    >>>> Get a clue Microsoft.
    >>>>
    >>>> P.S. -- those two guys you have in the Ad, you need to get out more and
    >>>> see what real developers look like -- it isn't something out of GQ.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Rob R. Ainscough, Aug 5, 2005
    #6
  7. Hi Rob,

    What do you develop with? Before you even make a dent in VS.Net you'll need
    to go on and on with your list. So far you are at:

    1: Pretty painless workaround.
    2: Braindead compared only to VS.Net 2005, blows everything else off the
    market in it's current state.
    3: Compared to what? Hell doesn't count and if you name another IDE it'll
    get chewed up and spit out.
    4: Havn't used it much have you. The biggest thing missing is multimedia
    which is why managed DX is available with books dedicated to it.
    5: $899 for the Pro version. For 2K you get a heck of a lot more than an
    IDE. No one offers anything for even close to the price and what is offered
    is inferior.
    6: Doing it yourself? Read up!
    7: Getting political? Your "on and on" list is obviously coming to an end.
    8: Okay your list was most definitely over at 4. The MSDN Knowledge Base is
    by far the standard in development documentation.

    Get some more ammo. The pea shooter you're packing is making you look weak.
    Maybe hit up the trade mags to back your cause. CRN is taken seriously and
    based on their ratings from a few months ago regarding development tools
    they disagree with you across the board. Good luck! Ken.

    "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    news:usj$...
    > List is not in any order, nor is it complete or final in anyway -- never
    > suggested it was hence why I said "And the list goes on and on...".
    >
    > Do you want me to play the "hit your specific gripe on head" game -- it's
    > easier if you list YOUR SERIOUS gripes cause I'm certain that MVP entitles
    > you to have more SERIOUS GRIPES than anyone else. ;)
    >
    >
    >
    > "W.G. Ryan MVP" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > You've got to be kidding me. Is this actually the top of your list of
    > > gripes? I'm 100% pro visual studio and I still have more serious gripes
    > > than this.
    > > "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > >> 1. Recording lock in ADO.NET -- more hoops -- SQL time (UPDLOCK) and
    > >> BeginTransactions
    > >> 2. Brain dead debugger -- I'd like to see the contents of that item in
    > >> the collection and/or datatable (debug.writeline -- ugh!)
    > >> 3. Buggy as hell IDE (even more buggy with ASP.NET - Web dev
    > >> projects) -- Index Services issues with web development
    > >> 4. .NET framework v1.1 missing A LOT of features making virtually
    > >> impossible to remain "managed" -- consume old COM dlls at your own risk
    > >> but I see why you would since .NET framework v1.1 is so limited
    > >> 5. $2000+/yr single developer if your into this game at any serious
    > >> level
    > >> 6. Connection management
    > >> 7. OOP the MS way -- but I don't want my child to inherit ALL the
    > >> properties of the parent, well ya got create an New grandparent and
    > >> inherit from that (oh joy)
    > >> 8. terrible help & search
    > >> ...
    > >>
    > >> And the list goes on and on.
    > >>
    > >> This is progress? Just think how much money you could have made if MS
    > >> had a clue...
    > >>
    > >> "W.G. Ryan MVP" <> wrote in message
    > >> news:...
    > >>> <<Re-invent the dev tools every 3-5 years in the
    > >>>> name of progress and hope developers don't notice >>
    > >>>
    > >>> Is that what they did? I didn't notice ;-(
    > >>>
    > >>> <<good revenue generation
    > >>>> for MS, bad career move for developers as they scramble to deal with
    > >>>> the latest crap from MS only to find out it can't do what it used to
    > >>>> do, but it does support the Web development better now -- I mean

    "isn't
    > >>>> everyone doing web development"??>>
    > >>> Yep, I know that $35.00 upgrade price from VS.NET to 2003 must have
    > >>> brought in tons of cash for Microsoft. But I'm not sure what the

    rest
    > >>> of your point is.... What doesn't VS.NET do that previous versions

    did?
    > >>> I'm able to do everythign I was able to before and a whole lot more.
    > >>> Yep, I can even consume those old COM dlls I wrote a few years back
    > >>> without a hitch. If learning .NET was a bad career move on my part, I
    > >>> need about 10 more just like it b/c life is a lot easier these days

    and
    > >>> I make a h3ll of a lot more money.
    > >>>
    > >>> So since you're obviously looking to ruffle features, please, by all
    > >>> means, cite some specifics. My Microsoft stock has been trading flat
    > >>> for a while now and if they're raking in the revenue from VS.NET,

    well,
    > >>> I need to get Bill on the phone and find out where my money is.
    > >>> "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    > >>> news:...
    > >>>> MS Visual Studio Ad contained in VS Magazine.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> Two developers in "hip" clothing diagramming out a huge flow chart on

    a
    > >>>> beach.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> I could NOT stop laughing at the stupidity of the ad -- "Let your

    ideas
    > >>>> run free"....only to be washed up by the waves when the tide comes
    > >>>> in -- this is exactly so so so Microsoft. Re-invent the dev tools
    > >>>> every 3-5 years in the name of progress and hope developers don't
    > >>>> notice -- good revenue generation for MS, bad career move for
    > >>>> developers as they scramble to deal with the latest crap from MS only
    > >>>> to find out it can't do what it used to do, but it does support the

    Web
    > >>>> development better now -- I mean "isn't everyone doing web
    > >>>> development"??
    > >>>>
    > >>>> Get a clue Microsoft.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> P.S. -- those two guys you have in the Ad, you need to get out more

    and
    > >>>> see what real developers look like -- it isn't something out of GQ.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >>

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Ken Dopierala Jr., Aug 6, 2005
    #7
  8. Rob R. Ainscough wrote:

    > 1. Recording lock in ADO.NET -- more hoops -- SQL time (UPDLOCK) and
    > BeginTransactions


    I fail to see this, the thing is that the SqlServer client in ADO.NET
    is much closer to the raw metal than the ADO wrapper around the OleDb
    driver ever was.

    > 2. Brain dead debugger -- I'd like to see the contents of that item
    > in the collection and/or datatable (debug.writeline -- ugh!)


    Use a real language ;).
    C# doesn't have that, it lets you see every element in an object.

    > 3. Buggy as hell IDE (even more buggy with ASP.NET - Web dev
    > projects) -- Index Services issues with web development


    webdevelopment is indeed not that great, though not everyone does
    webdevelopment :p

    > 4. .NET framework v1.1 missing A LOT of features making virtually
    > impossible to remain "managed" -- consume old COM dlls at your own
    > risk but I see why you would since .NET framework v1.1 is so limited


    I almost never use COM dlls, and I'm not doing anything unusual.

    > 5. $2000+/yr single developer if your into this game at any serious
    > level 6. Connection management


    Go to Montevideo, Uruguay. I know for a fact they pay more money for a
    ..NET developer than in the US.

    > 7. OOP the MS way -- but I don't want my child to inherit ALL the
    > properties of the parent, well ya got create an New grandparent and
    > inherit from that (oh joy)


    huh?

    > 8. terrible help & search
    > ...


    give me one example of better help on the same scale (i.e. amount of
    classes in a framework).

    > And the list goes on and on.


    no it doesn't.

    > This is progress? Just think how much money you could have made if
    > MS had a clue...


    Well, I AM making money because MS had no clue about O/R mapping, so I
    give you that one ;)

    FB


    >
    > "W.G. Ryan MVP" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > <<Re-invent the dev tools every 3-5 years in the
    > >> name of progress and hope developers don't notice >>

    > >
    > > Is that what they did? I didn't notice ;-(
    > >
    > > <<good revenue generation
    > >> for MS, bad career move for developers as they scramble to deal

    > with the >> latest crap from MS only to find out it can't do what it
    > used to do, but >> it does support the Web development better now --
    > I mean "isn't everyone >> doing web development"??>>
    > > Yep, I know that $35.00 upgrade price from VS.NET to 2003 must have
    > > brought in tons of cash for Microsoft. But I'm not sure what the
    > > rest of your point is.... What doesn't VS.NET do that previous
    > > versions did? I'm able to do everythign I was able to before and a
    > > whole lot more. Yep, I can even consume those old COM dlls I wrote
    > > a few years back without a hitch. If learning .NET was a bad
    > > career move on my part, I need about 10 more just like it b/c life
    > > is a lot easier these days and I make a h3ll of a lot more money.
    > >
    > > So since you're obviously looking to ruffle features, please, by
    > > all means, cite some specifics. My Microsoft stock has been
    > > trading flat for a while now and if they're raking in the revenue
    > > from VS.NET, well, I need to get Bill on the phone and find out
    > > where my money is. "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote
    > > in message news:...
    > >> MS Visual Studio Ad contained in VS Magazine.
    > > >
    > >> Two developers in "hip" clothing diagramming out a huge flow chart

    > on a >> beach.
    > > >
    > >> I could NOT stop laughing at the stupidity of the ad -- "Let your

    > ideas >> run free"....only to be washed up by the waves when the tide
    > comes in -- >> this is exactly so so so Microsoft. Re-invent the dev
    > tools every 3-5 >> years in the name of progress and hope developers
    > don't notice -- good >> revenue generation for MS, bad career move
    > for developers as they >> scramble to deal with the latest crap from
    > MS only to find out it can't >> do what it used to do, but it does
    > support the Web development better >> now -- I mean "isn't everyone
    > doing web development"??
    > > >
    > >> Get a clue Microsoft.
    > > >
    > >> P.S. -- those two guys you have in the Ad, you need to get out

    > more and >> see what real developers look like -- it isn't something
    > out of GQ.
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >




    --
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Get LLBLGen Pro, productive O/R mapping for .NET: http://www.llblgen.com
    My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
    Microsoft MVP (C#)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Frans Bouma [C# MVP], Aug 6, 2005
    #8
  9. clintonG wrote:

    > Don't get me started.
    >
    > You haven't seen nothing until you spend more than a decade trying to
    > do business using products such as AutoCAD from Autodesk. I know
    > people in general fail to understand how fundamental CAD has become
    > to the nation's economy and the extent to which it is all
    > subversively controlled and corrupted by Autodesk. There are
    > 'official' documents indicating the numbers run into billions of
    > annual losses within each market Autodesk subversively corrupts and
    > controls. When all is added up one subversive and corrupt corporate
    > parasite can be shown to be responsible for nearly a trillion dollars
    > of annual losses imputed into the US economy.


    I have a feeling you had a bad experience with autocad. ;) They
    tortured you TOO to write software in their horrible AutoLisp language?
    ;)

    FB, fellow autolisp victim

    >
    > <%= Clinton Gallagher
    > METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
    > NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
    > URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
    > URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
    >
    >
    > "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > MS Visual Studio Ad contained in VS Magazine.
    > >
    > > Two developers in "hip" clothing diagramming out a huge flow chart
    > > on a beach.
    > >
    > > I could NOT stop laughing at the stupidity of the ad -- "Let your
    > > ideas run free"....only to be washed up by the waves when the tide
    > > comes in -- this is exactly so so so Microsoft. Re-invent the dev
    > > tools every 3-5 years in the name of progress and hope developers
    > > don't notice -- good revenue generation for MS, bad career move for
    > > developers as they scramble to deal with the latest crap from MS
    > > only to find out it can't do what it used to do, but it does
    > > support the Web development better now -- I mean "isn't everyone
    > > doing web development"??



    --
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Get LLBLGen Pro, productive O/R mapping for .NET: http://www.llblgen.com
    My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
    Microsoft MVP (C#)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Frans Bouma [C# MVP], Aug 6, 2005
    #9
  10. Rob R. Ainscough

    clintonG Guest

    ROFL

    Yes, AutoLisp scared me away from development and I never really learned it
    well. The same thing happened to me when I first tried reading Perl. Now I'm
    much happier with C# of course :) but some aspects of OOP are really giving
    me a hard time.

    <%= Clinton Gallagher





    "Frans Bouma [C# MVP]" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > clintonG wrote:
    >
    >> Don't get me started.
    >>
    >> You haven't seen nothing until you spend more than a decade trying to
    >> do business using products such as AutoCAD from Autodesk. I know
    >> people in general fail to understand how fundamental CAD has become
    >> to the nation's economy and the extent to which it is all
    >> subversively controlled and corrupted by Autodesk. There are
    >> 'official' documents indicating the numbers run into billions of
    >> annual losses within each market Autodesk subversively corrupts and
    >> controls. When all is added up one subversive and corrupt corporate
    >> parasite can be shown to be responsible for nearly a trillion dollars
    >> of annual losses imputed into the US economy.

    >
    > I have a feeling you had a bad experience with autocad. ;) They
    > tortured you TOO to write software in their horrible AutoLisp language?
    > ;)
    >
    > FB, fellow autolisp victim
    >
    >>
    >> <%= Clinton Gallagher
    >> METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
    >> NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
    >> URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
    >> URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
    >>
    >>
    >> "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > MS Visual Studio Ad contained in VS Magazine.
    >> >
    >> > Two developers in "hip" clothing diagramming out a huge flow chart
    >> > on a beach.
    >> >
    >> > I could NOT stop laughing at the stupidity of the ad -- "Let your
    >> > ideas run free"....only to be washed up by the waves when the tide
    >> > comes in -- this is exactly so so so Microsoft. Re-invent the dev
    >> > tools every 3-5 years in the name of progress and hope developers
    >> > don't notice -- good revenue generation for MS, bad career move for
    >> > developers as they scramble to deal with the latest crap from MS
    >> > only to find out it can't do what it used to do, but it does
    >> > support the Web development better now -- I mean "isn't everyone
    >> > doing web development"??

    >
    >
    > --
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Get LLBLGen Pro, productive O/R mapping for .NET: http://www.llblgen.com
    > My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
    > Microsoft MVP (C#)
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    clintonG, Aug 6, 2005
    #10
  11. "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > 1. Recording lock in ADO.NET -- more hoops -- SQL time (UPDLOCK) and
    > BeginTransactions
    > 2. Brain dead debugger -- I'd like to see the contents of that item in
    > the collection and/or datatable (debug.writeline -- ugh!)
    > 3. Buggy as hell IDE (even more buggy with ASP.NET - Web dev projects) --
    > Index Services issues with web development
    > 4. .NET framework v1.1 missing A LOT of features making virtually
    > impossible to remain "managed" -- consume old COM dlls at your own risk
    > but I see why you would since .NET framework v1.1 is so limited
    > 5. $2000+/yr single developer if your into this game at any serious level
    > 6. Connection management
    > 7. OOP the MS way -- but I don't want my child to inherit ALL the
    > properties of the parent, well ya got create an New grandparent and
    > inherit from that (oh joy)
    > 8. terrible help & search
    > ...
    >
    > And the list goes on and on.
    >
    > This is progress? Just think how much money you could have made if MS had
    > a clue...
    >

    In reference to your #5: Go price some competing commercial development
    suites and then come back and tell us how outrageous the price is. Oracle,
    for example, wants ~$10,000 per seat for its tool suite.

    --
    Peter [MVP Visual Developer]
    Jack of all trades, master of none.
     
    Peter van der Goes, Aug 6, 2005
    #11
  12. Ken, Frans, & William

    So based on the lack of meat in your responses, I will assume you agree with
    me. You folks are classic -- you have small app syndrome. Increase your
    work loads and you'll realize just how bad Microsoft's "Vision" is.

    So, when is the next mass migration due? I suppose there are infinite ways
    to come up with the same ultimate output and you're clearly accepting MS as
    defacto standard. Haven't you noticed that you're ultimately doing the same
    thing over and over and over but only with a different go-fast tool?
    SSDD -- do you really want to progress your concepts and ideas or do you
    enjoy living in the muck called VS 2003?

    Even MS boast they re-wrote VS from scratch -- and this is a good thing??
    What happened to code re-use? What happened to scalability? We're supposed
    to be moving forward, not migrating and re-writing apps every 3-5 years --
    all that does is make MS rich, and the folks we develop apps for pissed off.
    You think any company wants to hear, we're gonna have to start from scratch
    and/or do a huge migration project? Do you really? I don't know what
    scale/size apps you folks design/code, but MS's vision is good for no one
    other than MS revenue stream. It's sad that you think your doing well
    (money wise and salary wise) at the expense of the companies you work for or
    contract with -- or maybe you folks always write new applications and dumb
    whatever currently exists. Is this really a vision you think is good for
    progress? Are you really that myopic?

    Rob.



    "Ken Dopierala Jr." <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Hi Rob,
    >
    > What do you develop with? Before you even make a dent in VS.Net you'll
    > need
    > to go on and on with your list. So far you are at:
    >
    > 1: Pretty painless workaround.
    > 2: Braindead compared only to VS.Net 2005, blows everything else off the
    > market in it's current state.
    > 3: Compared to what? Hell doesn't count and if you name another IDE it'll
    > get chewed up and spit out.
    > 4: Havn't used it much have you. The biggest thing missing is multimedia
    > which is why managed DX is available with books dedicated to it.
    > 5: $899 for the Pro version. For 2K you get a heck of a lot more than an
    > IDE. No one offers anything for even close to the price and what is
    > offered
    > is inferior.
    > 6: Doing it yourself? Read up!
    > 7: Getting political? Your "on and on" list is obviously coming to an
    > end.
    > 8: Okay your list was most definitely over at 4. The MSDN Knowledge Base
    > is
    > by far the standard in development documentation.
    >
    > Get some more ammo. The pea shooter you're packing is making you look
    > weak.
    > Maybe hit up the trade mags to back your cause. CRN is taken seriously
    > and
    > based on their ratings from a few months ago regarding development tools
    > they disagree with you across the board. Good luck! Ken.
    >
    > "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    > news:usj$...
    >> List is not in any order, nor is it complete or final in anyway -- never
    >> suggested it was hence why I said "And the list goes on and on...".
    >>
    >> Do you want me to play the "hit your specific gripe on head" game -- it's
    >> easier if you list YOUR SERIOUS gripes cause I'm certain that MVP
    >> entitles
    >> you to have more SERIOUS GRIPES than anyone else. ;)
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> "W.G. Ryan MVP" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > You've got to be kidding me. Is this actually the top of your list of
    >> > gripes? I'm 100% pro visual studio and I still have more serious
    >> > gripes
    >> > than this.
    >> > "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    >> > news:...
    >> >> 1. Recording lock in ADO.NET -- more hoops -- SQL time (UPDLOCK) and
    >> >> BeginTransactions
    >> >> 2. Brain dead debugger -- I'd like to see the contents of that item
    >> >> in
    >> >> the collection and/or datatable (debug.writeline -- ugh!)
    >> >> 3. Buggy as hell IDE (even more buggy with ASP.NET - Web dev
    >> >> projects) -- Index Services issues with web development
    >> >> 4. .NET framework v1.1 missing A LOT of features making virtually
    >> >> impossible to remain "managed" -- consume old COM dlls at your own
    >> >> risk
    >> >> but I see why you would since .NET framework v1.1 is so limited
    >> >> 5. $2000+/yr single developer if your into this game at any serious
    >> >> level
    >> >> 6. Connection management
    >> >> 7. OOP the MS way -- but I don't want my child to inherit ALL the
    >> >> properties of the parent, well ya got create an New grandparent and
    >> >> inherit from that (oh joy)
    >> >> 8. terrible help & search
    >> >> ...
    >> >>
    >> >> And the list goes on and on.
    >> >>
    >> >> This is progress? Just think how much money you could have made if MS
    >> >> had a clue...
    >> >>
    >> >> "W.G. Ryan MVP" <> wrote in message
    >> >> news:...
    >> >>> <<Re-invent the dev tools every 3-5 years in the
    >> >>>> name of progress and hope developers don't notice >>
    >> >>>
    >> >>> Is that what they did? I didn't notice ;-(
    >> >>>
    >> >>> <<good revenue generation
    >> >>>> for MS, bad career move for developers as they scramble to deal with
    >> >>>> the latest crap from MS only to find out it can't do what it used to
    >> >>>> do, but it does support the Web development better now -- I mean

    > "isn't
    >> >>>> everyone doing web development"??>>
    >> >>> Yep, I know that $35.00 upgrade price from VS.NET to 2003 must have
    >> >>> brought in tons of cash for Microsoft. But I'm not sure what the

    > rest
    >> >>> of your point is.... What doesn't VS.NET do that previous versions

    > did?
    >> >>> I'm able to do everythign I was able to before and a whole lot more.
    >> >>> Yep, I can even consume those old COM dlls I wrote a few years back
    >> >>> without a hitch. If learning .NET was a bad career move on my part,
    >> >>> I
    >> >>> need about 10 more just like it b/c life is a lot easier these days

    > and
    >> >>> I make a h3ll of a lot more money.
    >> >>>
    >> >>> So since you're obviously looking to ruffle features, please, by all
    >> >>> means, cite some specifics. My Microsoft stock has been trading
    >> >>> flat
    >> >>> for a while now and if they're raking in the revenue from VS.NET,

    > well,
    >> >>> I need to get Bill on the phone and find out where my money is.
    >> >>> "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    >> >>> news:...
    >> >>>> MS Visual Studio Ad contained in VS Magazine.
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> Two developers in "hip" clothing diagramming out a huge flow chart
    >> >>>> on

    > a
    >> >>>> beach.
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> I could NOT stop laughing at the stupidity of the ad -- "Let your

    > ideas
    >> >>>> run free"....only to be washed up by the waves when the tide comes
    >> >>>> in -- this is exactly so so so Microsoft. Re-invent the dev tools
    >> >>>> every 3-5 years in the name of progress and hope developers don't
    >> >>>> notice -- good revenue generation for MS, bad career move for
    >> >>>> developers as they scramble to deal with the latest crap from MS
    >> >>>> only
    >> >>>> to find out it can't do what it used to do, but it does support the

    > Web
    >> >>>> development better now -- I mean "isn't everyone doing web
    >> >>>> development"??
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> Get a clue Microsoft.
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> P.S. -- those two guys you have in the Ad, you need to get out more

    > and
    >> >>>> see what real developers look like -- it isn't something out of GQ.
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Rob R. Ainscough, Aug 6, 2005
    #12
  13. Rob R. Ainscough wrote:

    > Ken, Frans, & William
    >
    > So based on the lack of meat in your responses, I will assume you
    > agree with me. You folks are classic -- you have small app syndrome.


    1) your remarks were countered, so we don't agree with you
    2) you're classic, namely a troll.

    3) small app syndrome? LOL :)

    > Increase your work loads and you'll realize just how bad Microsoft's
    > "Vision" is.


    you haven't payed attention to whom you're talking, have you? :)

    > So, when is the next mass migration due? I suppose there are
    > infinite ways to come up with the same ultimate output and you're
    > clearly accepting MS as defacto standard. Haven't you noticed that
    > you're ultimately doing the same thing over and over and over but
    > only with a different go-fast tool? SSDD -- do you really want to
    > progress your concepts and ideas or do you enjoy living in the muck
    > called VS 2003?


    nope, you haven't checked what we've done/do :)

    > Even MS boast they re-wrote VS from scratch -- and this is a good
    > thing?? What happened to code re-use? What happened to scalability?


    based on what is this babbling based?

    > We're supposed to be moving forward, not migrating and re-writing
    > apps every 3-5 years -- all that does is make MS rich, and the folks
    > we develop apps for pissed off.


    Who says you have to rewrite an app every 3-5 years? Is your software
    that broken that you need to rewrite it every 3-5 years?

    > You think any company wants to hear,
    > we're gonna have to start from scratch and/or do a huge migration
    > project? Do you really? I don't know what scale/size apps you folks
    > design/code,


    no you really don't know, that's for sure :p

    > but MS's vision is good for no one other than MS revenue
    > stream. It's sad that you think your doing well (money wise and
    > salary wise) at the expense of the companies you work for or contract
    > with -- or maybe you folks always write new applications and dumb
    > whatever currently exists. Is this really a vision you think is good
    > for progress? Are you really that myopic?


    I have really no clue what your real point is and why you spend all
    this time ranting in the C# newsgroup. I have a feeling you're deeply
    frustrated or something, but I don't see why that has to lead to a rant
    in a newsgroup other than getting attention.

    Frans



    --
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Get LLBLGen Pro, productive O/R mapping for .NET: http://www.llblgen.com
    My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
    Microsoft MVP (C#)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Frans Bouma [C# MVP], Aug 7, 2005
    #13
  14. There is a scale of effectiveness in advertising. Roughly:
    0 - you don't remember the ad 10 minutes after seeing it
    1 - you vaguely remember the ad. Don't remember the product
    2 - you remember the ad and agree with the point.
    3 - you find the ad interesting and mention it to other people.
    4 - you find the ad disruptive (funny, counterintuitive, odd) and you tell
    everyone you know to see it too.

    To get #3 or #4 is considered amazingly effective. Less that 1% of all
    advertising will make it to "word of mouth."

    I see that this ad scored a #4 for you. I'm glad that the marketing
    department is doing such a fine job.

    I'm not kidding.

    --
    --- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
    MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
    http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik

    Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
    representative of my employer.
    I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
    programmer helping programmers.
    --
    "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > MS Visual Studio Ad contained in VS Magazine.
    >
    > Two developers in "hip" clothing diagramming out a huge flow chart on a
    > beach.
    >
     
    Nick Malik [Microsoft], Aug 8, 2005
    #14
  15. Rob R. Ainscough

    clintonG Guest

    This is entertaining. See if you remember this...
    http://www.escapeyesterworld.com/


    <%= Clinton Gallagher
    METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
    NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
    URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
    URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/


    "Nick Malik [Microsoft]" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > There is a scale of effectiveness in advertising. Roughly:
    > 0 - you don't remember the ad 10 minutes after seeing it
    > 1 - you vaguely remember the ad. Don't remember the product
    > 2 - you remember the ad and agree with the point.
    > 3 - you find the ad interesting and mention it to other people.
    > 4 - you find the ad disruptive (funny, counterintuitive, odd) and you tell
    > everyone you know to see it too.
    >
    > To get #3 or #4 is considered amazingly effective. Less that 1% of all
    > advertising will make it to "word of mouth."
    >
    > I see that this ad scored a #4 for you. I'm glad that the marketing
    > department is doing such a fine job.
    >
    > I'm not kidding.
    >
    > --
    > --- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
    > MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
    > http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik
    >
    > Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
    > representative of my employer.
    > I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
    > programmer helping programmers.
    > --
    > "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> MS Visual Studio Ad contained in VS Magazine.
    >>
    >> Two developers in "hip" clothing diagramming out a huge flow chart on a
    >> beach.
    >>

    >
     
    clintonG, Aug 8, 2005
    #15
  16. Frans,

    C# newsgroup?? Did you get lost again? This is
    "microsoft.public.dotnet.general" -- it is not specific to C#.

    What counter is that? empty statements and work arounds?

    To whom I'm talking -- I see you have GOD syndrome also -- I expected no
    less.

    VB6 migration to VB.NET -- the migration tool is pretty useless, hence the
    need to re-write or at least another painful conversion of huge source
    library if one is to remain "managed" under .NET framework v1.1.

    Don't know, don't care what you do -- again GOD syndrome and again no
    counter. But I see you're yet another productivity tool -- just another
    layer, exactly what we don't need, more layers, more different companies to
    deal with, etc. etc. You sure are proud of that MVP on your blog.

    Rob


    "Frans Bouma [C# MVP]" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Rob R. Ainscough wrote:
    >
    >> Ken, Frans, & William
    >>
    >> So based on the lack of meat in your responses, I will assume you
    >> agree with me. You folks are classic -- you have small app syndrome.

    >
    > 1) your remarks were countered, so we don't agree with you
    > 2) you're classic, namely a troll.
    >
    > 3) small app syndrome? LOL :)
    >
    >> Increase your work loads and you'll realize just how bad Microsoft's
    >> "Vision" is.

    >
    > you haven't payed attention to whom you're talking, have you? :)
    >
    >> So, when is the next mass migration due? I suppose there are
    >> infinite ways to come up with the same ultimate output and you're
    >> clearly accepting MS as defacto standard. Haven't you noticed that
    >> you're ultimately doing the same thing over and over and over but
    >> only with a different go-fast tool? SSDD -- do you really want to
    >> progress your concepts and ideas or do you enjoy living in the muck
    >> called VS 2003?

    >
    > nope, you haven't checked what we've done/do :)
    >
    >> Even MS boast they re-wrote VS from scratch -- and this is a good
    >> thing?? What happened to code re-use? What happened to scalability?

    >
    > based on what is this babbling based?
    >
    >> We're supposed to be moving forward, not migrating and re-writing
    >> apps every 3-5 years -- all that does is make MS rich, and the folks
    >> we develop apps for pissed off.

    >
    > Who says you have to rewrite an app every 3-5 years? Is your software
    > that broken that you need to rewrite it every 3-5 years?
    >
    >> You think any company wants to hear,
    >> we're gonna have to start from scratch and/or do a huge migration
    >> project? Do you really? I don't know what scale/size apps you folks
    >> design/code,

    >
    > no you really don't know, that's for sure :p
    >
    >> but MS's vision is good for no one other than MS revenue
    >> stream. It's sad that you think your doing well (money wise and
    >> salary wise) at the expense of the companies you work for or contract
    >> with -- or maybe you folks always write new applications and dumb
    >> whatever currently exists. Is this really a vision you think is good
    >> for progress? Are you really that myopic?

    >
    > I have really no clue what your real point is and why you spend all
    > this time ranting in the C# newsgroup. I have a feeling you're deeply
    > frustrated or something, but I don't see why that has to lead to a rant
    > in a newsgroup other than getting attention.
    >
    > Frans
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Get LLBLGen Pro, productive O/R mapping for .NET: http://www.llblgen.com
    > My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
    > Microsoft MVP (C#)
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Rob R. Ainscough, Aug 9, 2005
    #16
  17. Nick,

    I know you're not kidding -- sorta proof in the pudding, think about what
    you just said.

    Rob.

    "Nick Malik [Microsoft]" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > There is a scale of effectiveness in advertising. Roughly:
    > 0 - you don't remember the ad 10 minutes after seeing it
    > 1 - you vaguely remember the ad. Don't remember the product
    > 2 - you remember the ad and agree with the point.
    > 3 - you find the ad interesting and mention it to other people.
    > 4 - you find the ad disruptive (funny, counterintuitive, odd) and you tell
    > everyone you know to see it too.
    >
    > To get #3 or #4 is considered amazingly effective. Less that 1% of all
    > advertising will make it to "word of mouth."
    >
    > I see that this ad scored a #4 for you. I'm glad that the marketing
    > department is doing such a fine job.
    >
    > I'm not kidding.
    >
    > --
    > --- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
    > MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
    > http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik
    >
    > Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
    > representative of my employer.
    > I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
    > programmer helping programmers.
    > --
    > "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> MS Visual Studio Ad contained in VS Magazine.
    >>
    >> Two developers in "hip" clothing diagramming out a huge flow chart on a
    >> beach.
    >>

    >
     
    Rob R. Ainscough, Aug 9, 2005
    #17
  18. That is SO funny! I wasn't aware of that ad. Thanks for the link.

    --
    --- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
    MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
    http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik

    Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
    representative of my employer.
    I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
    programmer helping programmers.
    --
    "clintonG" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > This is entertaining. See if you remember this...
    > http://www.escapeyesterworld.com/
    >
    >
    > <%= Clinton Gallagher
    > METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
    > NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
    > URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
    > URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
    >
    >
    > "Nick Malik [Microsoft]" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> There is a scale of effectiveness in advertising. Roughly:
    >> 0 - you don't remember the ad 10 minutes after seeing it
    >> 1 - you vaguely remember the ad. Don't remember the product
    >> 2 - you remember the ad and agree with the point.
    >> 3 - you find the ad interesting and mention it to other people.
    >> 4 - you find the ad disruptive (funny, counterintuitive, odd) and you
    >> tell everyone you know to see it too.
    >>
    >> To get #3 or #4 is considered amazingly effective. Less that 1% of all
    >> advertising will make it to "word of mouth."
    >>
    >> I see that this ad scored a #4 for you. I'm glad that the marketing
    >> department is doing such a fine job.
    >>
    >> I'm not kidding.
    >>
    >> --
    >> --- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
    >> MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
    >> http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik
    >>
    >> Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
    >> representative of my employer.
    >> I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
    >> programmer helping programmers.
    >> --
    >> "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> MS Visual Studio Ad contained in VS Magazine.
    >>>
    >>> Two developers in "hip" clothing diagramming out a huge flow chart on a
    >>> beach.
    >>>

    >>

    >
    >
     
    Nick Malik [Microsoft], Aug 9, 2005
    #18
  19. Rob R. Ainscough

    Guest Guest

    "Rob R. Ainscough" wrote:
    >> this is exactly so so so Microsoft. Re-invent the dev tools every 3-5
    >> years in the name of progress and hope developers don't notice -- good
    >> revenue generation for MS, bad career move for developers as they
    >> scramble to deal with the latest crap from MS only to find out it can't
    >> do what it used to do, but it does support the Web development better
    >> now -- I mean "isn't everyone doing web development"??


    When MS moved from the original Basic compilers and QuickBasic to VB, there
    were a few developers that couldn't see how great that move was and were
    upset at the platform change. VB1 came out 1991. The first betas of .NET
    were out in 2000, that wasn't even the official release. Far from your point
    of MS changing the platform "every 3 to 5 years" what really happened was MS
    stuck with classic VB for 10 years. Man, in our industry 10 years is a
    friggin' lifetime! Like maybe 50 years in any other industry. Yeah,
    somewhere in the middle of that MS moved from 16-bit computing to 32-bit
    computing. Are you actually going to sit here in 2005 and try to assert that
    that was a bad move on Microsoft's part??????? So, now, after 10 years (a
    lifetime), MS has dared to suggest that platform was aging a wee bit and has
    moved to a new platform that allows multiple languages like C++, VB, J#(java
    syntax), JScript/Javascript conforming to the latest standards, COBOL, and
    advanced research languages to interoperate and be hosted under the same
    debugger. They moved to a platform built from the ground up to support web
    services and scalable distributed multithreaded applications. This is
    something we should be upset with?? By the way, their help and
    documentation blows away everything else in the industry and I've seen what
    all the competitors offer. Yes, especially in the woeful 2002 to 2003 period
    when we were at the abyss of the dot-com bust, more than a few corporations
    balked at green-lighting moves from the older platform to .NET. I'm seeing
    that change all over town now and I'm seeing, and participating in, some
    major big-time successes that are winning hearts and minds to .NET. I'm
    working on a WinForms app done in VB.NET that combines data-entry,
    instrumentation, high-availability, mapping and telephony integration and is
    nothing but a success for a national company and let me tell you we could've
    NEVER written this thing in "good ole" VB6 -- never, not in a million years.
    It wouldn't have been performant, it wouldn't have taken advantage of
    multithreading, it wouldn't have a UI that has the most modern/slick
    advantages --- dude... what do you do in your profession such that you can't
    see that MS is making life better for developers and our customers?
    Distributed computing is still too much in the infancy of its arc to just
    stick to one "perfect" platform for decades. Yeah, IBM's batch and online
    platforms can still run code from the 60's but I'm employed because companies
    can't make their employees stare at 80 columns of text anymore. Sometimes
    you just have to swallow hard, square your shoulders and jump into the future.
     
    Guest, Aug 14, 2005
    #19
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