Stahl SS

Discussion in 'DIY PC' started by Flasherly, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. Flasherly

    Flasherly Guest

    Got my soldering station today. Model STSSVT. Guess the VT stand for
    why they charged me $17 for their product. Variable Temperature
    ranging settings from 0-40watts. About beat up my old Weller Orange
    stick, pretty bad, and figured I'd give Stahl a try between maybe
    picking a 20-ish watt Blue (Weller's pro) unit. Seems having no
    sensor feedback at its tip, hence the name prone actually to stall at
    some material points, is about right. Ever used one?
     
    Flasherly, Nov 29, 2011
    #1
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  2. Flasherly

    John Doe Guest

    Flasherly <Flasherly live.com> wrote:

    > Got my soldering station today. Model STSSVT.


    You call that a "soldering station"? Or maybe I should have
    translated it...

    > Guess the VT stand for why they charged me $17 for their
    > product. Variable Temperature ranging settings from 0-40watts.
    > About beat up my old Weller Orange stick, pretty bad, and
    > figured I'd give Stahl a try between maybe picking a 20-ish watt
    > Blue (Weller's pro) unit. Seems having no sensor feedback at
    > its tip, hence the name prone actually to stall at some material
    > points, is about right. Ever used one?


    I have been doing some ordinary soldering, as opposed to soldering
    integrated circuit chips. My heavy soldering iron is pretty much a
    POS, but at least it gets hot enough to easily solder appliance
    cord wire and its trigger heats up the tip quickly.

    Water-soluble core solder is great stuff if you like sparkling
    clean. To remove the resin, run it under warm water or wipe with a
    paper towel. Neat stuff IMO. I still have a roll from way back
    when I used to connect IC chips to make little things.
     
    John Doe, Nov 29, 2011
    #2
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  3. Flasherly

    Flasherly Guest

    On Nov 29, 12:04 am, John Doe <> wrote:
    > Flasherly <Flasherly live.com> wrote:
    > > Got my soldering station today. Model STSSVT.

    >
    > You call that a "soldering station"? Or maybe I should have
    > translated it...
    >
    > > Guess the VT stand for why they charged me $17 for their
    > > product. Variable Temperature ranging settings from 0-40watts.
    > > About beat up my old Weller Orange stick, pretty bad, and
    > > figured I'd give Stahl a try between maybe picking a 20-ish watt
    > > Blue (Weller's pro) unit. Seems having no sensor feedback at
    > > its tip, hence the name prone actually to stall at some material
    > > points, is about right. Ever used one?

    >
    > I have been doing some ordinary soldering, as opposed to soldering
    > integrated circuit chips. My heavy soldering iron is pretty much a
    > POS, but at least it gets hot enough to easily solder appliance
    > cord wire and its trigger heats up the tip quickly.
    >
    > Water-soluble core solder is great stuff if you like sparkling
    > clean. To remove the resin, run it under warm water or wipe with a
    > paper towel. Neat stuff IMO. I still have a roll from way back
    > when I used to connect IC chips to make little things.


    I'll have to try it first before measuring the tip dimensions and
    ordering all kinds of nifty and larger tips. Ebay's got tons of
    those. The tip that came with it is supposed to be small enough and
    may be OK for chip work. Also need a solder sucker, but will keep
    washable resin flux in mind. Also need to read for brushing up on
    soldering techniques in general. Part of the reason my fixed Weller
    tip looks like its been through hell (constantly dipping into a can of
    flux is corrosive on tin covering the lead core). Projects
    withstanding, the first time it gets used to fix something smaller
    than the Weller might fry to a crisp, at $17, it pays for itself.
    Though $50+ gets out of potluck territory and into a real instrument
    with a temperature probe calibrated for a base regulator to keep the
    tip temperature constant. See how this one goes, anyway. Just got
    it, free shipping with $10 for a couple quarts of compressor oil.
    There's a 30 or so reviews at the supplier Amazon's selling it
    through.

    http://www.amazon.com/Stahl-Tools-V...1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322560881&sr=8-1-fkmr0
     
    Flasherly, Nov 29, 2011
    #3
  4. Flasherly

    david Guest

    On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 05:04:10 +0000, John Doe rearranged some electrons to
    say:

    >
    > Water-soluble core solder is great stuff if you like sparkling clean. To
    > remove the resin, run it under warm water or wipe with a paper towel.
    > Neat stuff IMO. I still have a roll from way back when I used to connect
    > IC chips to make little things.


    And if you don't get EVERY little bit of it off, it can cause long term
    reliability problems and corrosion of the joint. Regular RMA flux is
    much better, and you don't have to wash the flux off, it's non-conductive.
     
    david, Nov 29, 2011
    #4
  5. Flasherly wrote:
    >
    > Got my soldering station today. Model STSSVT. Guess the VT stand for
    > why they charged me $17 for their product. Variable Temperature
    > ranging settings from 0-40watts. About beat up my old Weller Orange
    > stick, pretty bad, and figured I'd give Stahl a try between maybe
    > picking a 20-ish watt Blue (Weller's pro) unit. Seems having no
    > sensor feedback at its tip, hence the name prone actually to stall at
    > some material points, is about right. Ever used one?


    I have a $4 hand-held variable power iron that goes from 10-60W in 10W
    steps. 40W is about the minimum power needed to solder leads into the
    ground plane or power plane of 4+ layer circuit boards, at least 50W
    is needed to unsolder them, and that's with 60/40 tin/lead solder --
    forget about lead-free. Also if the power setting is kept above 40W,
    the iron can't be left to idle for long because the tip will overheat
    and turn blue. Maybe this iron just isn't very good (cone-shaped tip,
    rather than chisel), but I tried a Hakko 936 50W with real temperature
    regulation, and it's a lot better, both at melting solder more quickly
    and at not overheating the tip or copper traces.

    AFAICT the cheapest temperature regulated iron is the Goot PX-201,
    about $50, and it can deliver up to 60W to the tip (iron draws up to
    70W), meaning it's suitable for lead-free solder:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3RDu6FIg7w
     
    larry moe 'n curly, Nov 29, 2011
    #5
  6. Flasherly

    John Doe Guest

    david <none nospam.com> wrote:

    > John Doe rearranged some electrons to say:


    >> Water-soluble core solder is great stuff if you like sparkling
    >> clean. To remove the resin, run it under warm water or wipe
    >> with a paper towel. Neat stuff IMO. I still have a roll from
    >> way back when I used to connect IC chips to make little things.

    >
    > And if you don't get EVERY little bit of it off, it can cause
    > long term reliability problems and corrosion of the joint.


    Have you ever used water-soluble flux solder? Sounds like you are
    trolling for answers... Yes, it's good stuff, try it.

    Every little bit of water-soluble flux core solder comes off very
    easily by simply running the circuit under warm water. Or, again,
    you can just wipe off the flux with a paper towel. I have an
    excess of recycled paper towels, so that's always very easy.

    > Regular RMA flux is much better,


    Says some nym-shifting troll. That is clearly false, since
    water-soluble core solder is readily available. Obviously it
    depends on your application. I do not like hard junk all over my
    work, the junk that ordinary flux solder leaves. Apparently
    water-soluble flux solder is mainly used for difficult to solder
    metals (a quality that is always desirable here), but being able
    to rinse the flux off is great for soldering lots of little stuff
    closely spaced. Or if you are into neatness. Or if you don't like
    ordinary flux getting in the way of soldering/resoldering
    connections. I started using water-soluble flux when designing and
    piecing together LEDs and little electronics stuff with 4000
    series logic. All of the soldering mess was easily removed with
    warm water, to leave a sparkling clean product, UNLIKE ORDINARY
    FLUX SOLDER (apparently the maroon has never even used water
    soluble flux solder). Being able to wash off the flux was helped a
    lot for easily soldering tens or hundreds of nearby connections
    and being able to see what I was doing.

    > and you don't have to wash the flux off,


    Ordinary flux is hard, it gets in the way, and you cannot wash it
    off with water. I can imagine someone liking ordinary solder if he
    has no experience with water-soluble flux solder, he does little
    soldering, does not solder difficult metals, and does not require
    detail or neatness. Or maybe you have no easy way of rinsing or
    wiping your work.

    > it's non-conductive.


    Water soluble flux is not conductive since there isn't any left on
    your circuit. Neatness and ease of soldering is the point of using
    it.

    This is the widely available water-soluble flux solder I use.

    "KESTER "331" Water-Soluble 3.3% flux...promotes complete wetting
    of the surfaces to be soldered and is specially designed to clean
    with warm water. Kester Solder...provides shiny joints for easy
    visual inspection."

    Very clean and shiny.

    According to Kester.

    Kester 331 is a high-activity water-soluble core flux for
    soldering difficult metals...it does need to be washed off within
    a few hours of soldering or the solder joint will become dull."

    According to others.

    http://www.galco.com/techdoc/kstr/24-6040-6411_cp.pdf

    "Kester 331...is more efctive than rosin fluxes in soldering
    difficult metals. The residue can be completely removed with a
    simple water rinse...Soldered samples left up to 48 hours in a
    simulated production environment, without removing the flux,
    showed no evidence of the flux residue having any corrosive
    properties."

    I'm sold!
    Or "resold".

    Since the flux is soft, if you are not careful, I suppose it might
    make you messier. Conceivably more hazardous (the solder being led
    and all), but not as difficult as working with super glue.
    --















    > Path: news.astraweb.com!border6.newsrouter.astraweb.com!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-05.inet.qwest.net!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
    > From: david <none nospam.com>
    > Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
    > Subject: Re: Stahl SS
    > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:10:13 +0000 (UTC)
    > Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
    > Lines: 12
    > Message-ID: <jb2eil$mvo$1 dont-email.me>
    > References: <89938c05-017c-4a51-a6c3-ebbd24ba9633 w15g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <4ed467ca$0$20225$c3e8da3$9deca2c3 news.astraweb.com>
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    > Cancel-Lock: sha1:dAAX2/qNzItMAQx9rvtQv8ri4NI=
    >
     
    John Doe, Nov 29, 2011
    #6
  7. Flasherly

    Flasherly Guest

    On Nov 29, 12:30 pm, "larry moe 'n curly" <>
    wrote:
    >
    > I have a $4 hand-held variable power iron that goes from 10-60W in 10W
    > steps. 40W is about the minimum power needed to solder leads into the
    > ground plane or power plane of 4+ layer circuit boards, at least 50W
    > is needed to unsolder them, and that's with 60/40 tin/lead solder --
    > forget about lead-free.


    Cool, then they actually work. Hell of a price, if that's also what I
    was looking at on Ebay, $6 variable irons. Think I've a Weller gun -
    amazing the jobs it'll do for anything involving heavy heat. I've
    soldered 220V dryer cords together for a Lincoln stick welder with
    that. 60watts are also popular in the reviews with stained glass-
    workers (Tiffany), although, more along what I was reading, was
    20watts for cars and not much more for components and PCBs. My other
    Weller, an iron, has been a good little workhorse, though tends to be
    on the hot side for anything delicate. Hakko is of course top of the
    line even among better names, so that would be a nice experience. I'd
    probably go into one of those other "better names" before dropping $50
    on an iron alone. A Hakko has got to start twice what these run . . .

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=bl_sr_p...ing=UTF8&node=228013&field-brandtextbin=Aoyue
     
    Flasherly, Dec 1, 2011
    #7
  8. Flasherly

    david Guest

    On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 06:15:22 -0800, Flasherly rearranged some electrons to
    say:

    > On Nov 29, 12:30 pm, "larry moe 'n curly" <>
    > wrote:
    >>
    >> I have a $4 hand-held variable power iron that goes from 10-60W in 10W
    >> steps. 40W is about the minimum power needed to solder leads into the
    >> ground plane or power plane of 4+ layer circuit boards, at least 50W is
    >> needed to unsolder them, and that's with 60/40 tin/lead solder --
    >> forget about lead-free.

    >
    > Cool, then they actually work. Hell of a price, if that's also what I
    > was looking at on Ebay, $6 variable irons. Think I've a Weller gun -
    > amazing the jobs it'll do for anything involving heavy heat. I've
    > soldered 220V dryer cords together for a Lincoln stick welder with that.
    > 60watts are also popular in the reviews with stained glass-
    > workers (Tiffany), although, more along what I was reading, was 20watts
    > for cars and not much more for components and PCBs. My other Weller, an
    > iron, has been a good little workhorse, though tends to be on the hot
    > side for anything delicate. Hakko is of course top of the line even
    > among better names, so that would be a nice experience. I'd probably go
    > into one of those other "better names" before dropping $50 on an iron
    > alone. A Hakko has got to start twice what these run . . .
    >
    > http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=bl_sr_power-hand-tools?

    _encoding=UTF8&node=228013&field-brandtextbin=Aoyue


    It all depends on what you want to do with it. If you're working on ESD
    sensitive, expensive gear, you'll want an iron with a grounded tip. The
    cheap ones may or may not be grounded. You'll also want a temperature-
    controlled model to keep from overheating your work. I've been soldering
    for 30 years, and recently invested in a Hakko 936 in order to build this:

    http://www.elecraft.com/k2_page.htm

    After soldering thousands of joints in this radio kit, the Hakko 936 has
    proven its value. Every joint was perfect, and the iron had plenty of
    heating power to flow solder on the heavy power components without
    overheating them.

    I suspect that you would go through several cheap irons before the Hakko
    breaks.

    "Buy quality and only cry once"
     
    david, Dec 2, 2011
    #8
  9. Flasherly

    Flasherly Guest

    On Dec 2, 6:20 am, david <> wrote:
    >
    > "Buy quality and only cry once"


    That's a beauty of a kit, for sure. I surprised myself, not so long
    ago, supposing I did well enough with SSB Kaito SW receiver regardless
    of horrible, inner-city reception for listening in. Considering years
    and years of work, transmitting over radios for coordinating crews out
    of a central location. Never thought I'd come to that point, touch a
    mic or listen over "the bands" after an 8-hour shift. But
    occasionally I do now, returning to switch it on for a quiet ambiance
    to distant voices, off the air, late in the night. I wouldn't
    hesitate to buy a proper station if ever I gain the confidence
    actually to trace circuitry for an understanding of necessary
    components for building a respectable vacuum tube stereo amplifier.
     
    Flasherly, Dec 2, 2011
    #9
  10. Flasherly

    david Guest

    On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 09:03:30 -0800, Flasherly rearranged some electrons to
    say:

    > On Dec 2, 6:20 am, david <> wrote:
    >>
    >> "Buy quality and only cry once"

    >
    > That's a beauty of a kit, for sure. I surprised myself, not so long
    > ago, supposing I did well enough with SSB Kaito SW receiver regardless
    > of horrible, inner-city reception for listening in. Considering years
    > and years of work, transmitting over radios for coordinating crews out
    > of a central location. Never thought I'd come to that point, touch a
    > mic or listen over "the bands" after an 8-hour shift. But occasionally
    > I do now, returning to switch it on for a quiet ambiance to distant
    > voices, off the air, late in the night. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a
    > proper station if ever I gain the confidence actually to trace circuitry
    > for an understanding of necessary components for building a respectable
    > vacuum tube stereo amplifier.


    It was a fun build. It took about 50 hours to build the base kit, and
    another 50 hours or so to build the 100 watt amplifier add-on. My
    farthest 2 way contact so far (using a compromised antenna) was in
    Ukraine (from the eastern US). I'm working on a better antenna now.

    If you send me an email address to a j 4 t f at a r r l dot n e t I will
    send you a link to some build pictures, if you're interested.
     
    david, Dec 3, 2011
    #10
  11. Flasherly

    Flasherly Guest

    On Dec 3, 9:17 am, david <> wrote:
    >
    > It was a fun build. It took about 50 hours to build the base kit, and
    > another 50 hours or so to build the 100 watt amplifier add-on. My
    > farthest 2 way contact so far (using a compromised antenna) was in
    > Ukraine (from the eastern US). I'm working on a better antenna now.


    I looked at the K2 kit, accessories, the amplifier, and some reviews
    -- a high-end performer. Appreciate the offer on the pics, but a
    little over my league. I'd need to start with a book on an vacuum amp-
    build kit with a pretty narrow reference field, electronically and
    parts wise as to assembly and workings. Not so far for a sort of
    thing getting into HAM clubs involves, I'd guess from a couple of
    people with rcx/trx setups, licenses and in HAM clubs, I've run into.
    Guy who initially introduced me to computers, come to think of it,
    used to think a lot and hang with HAM crowds. Pulled out a chess
    board first time I met him, and next thing I know, we leave for a
    electronics shop, I'm learning about using the Intel processor (I had
    a chess computer built by a space engineer then and he had an Intel to
    pair it against). :<0
     
    Flasherly, Dec 3, 2011
    #11
  12. Flasherly

    david Guest

    On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 10:22:59 -0600, Allen rearranged some electrons to
    say:

    > On 12/3/2011 9:59 AM, Flasherly wrote:
    >> On Dec 3, 9:17 am, david<> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> It was a fun build. It took about 50 hours to build the base kit, and
    >>> another 50 hours or so to build the 100 watt amplifier add-on. My
    >>> farthest 2 way contact so far (using a compromised antenna) was in
    >>> Ukraine (from the eastern US). I'm working on a better antenna now.

    >>
    >> I looked at the K2 kit, accessories, the amplifier, and some reviews --
    >> a high-end performer. Appreciate the offer on the pics, but a little
    >> over my league. I'd need to start with a book on an vacuum amp-
    >> build kit with a pretty narrow reference field, electronically and
    >> parts wise as to assembly and workings. Not so far for a sort of thing
    >> getting into HAM clubs involves, I'd guess from a couple of people with
    >> rcx/trx setups, licenses and in HAM clubs, I've run into. Guy who
    >> initially introduced me to computers, come to think of it, used to
    >> think a lot and hang with HAM crowds. Pulled out a chess board first
    >> time I met him, and next thing I know, we leave for a electronics shop,
    >> I'm learning about using the Intel processor (I had a chess computer
    >> built by a space engineer then and he had an Intel to pair it against).
    >> :<0

    > This thread takes me back 60 years, by which time I had either made from
    > scratch, made from kit (Heathkit, EICO) or extensively altered every
    > piece of audio equipment I owned with the sole exception of pickup
    > cartridges--pre-solid state of course. It was a lot of fun and the
    > results varied from wow! to hmmm! If I tried that now I would either
    > burn my house down or crash the city power supply.
    > Allen


    Some people say that Elecraft is the 'new' Heathkit, at least for amateur
    radio gear. I would tend to agree with that.
     
    david, Dec 3, 2011
    #12
  13. Flasherly

    Flasherly Guest

    On Dec 3, 11:22 am, Allen <> wrote:
    > On 12/3/2011 9:59 AM, Flasherly wrote:
    >
    > > On Dec 3, 9:17 am, david<> wrote:

    >
    > >> It was a fun build. It took about 50 hours to build the base kit, and
    > >> another 50 hours or so to build the 100 watt amplifier add-on. My
    > >> farthest 2 way contact so far (using a compromised antenna) was in
    > >> Ukraine (from the eastern US). I'm working on a better antenna now.

    >
    > > I looked at the K2 kit, accessories, the amplifier, and some reviews
    > > -- a high-end performer. Appreciate the offer on the pics, but a
    > > little over my league. I'd need to start with a book on an vacuum amp-
    > > build kit with a pretty narrow reference field, electronically and
    > > parts wise as to assembly and workings. Not so far for a sort of
    > > thing getting into HAM clubs involves, I'd guess from a couple of
    > > people with rcx/trx setups, licenses and in HAM clubs, I've run into.
    > > Guy who initially introduced me to computers, come to think of it,
    > > used to think a lot and hang with HAM crowds. Pulled out a chess
    > > board first time I met him, and next thing I know, we leave for a
    > > electronics shop, I'm learning about using the Intel processor (I had
    > > a chess computer built by a space engineer then and he had an Intel to
    > > pair it against). :<0

    >
    > This thread takes me back 60 years, by which time I had either made from
    > scratch, made from kit (Heathkit, EICO) or extensively altered every
    > piece of audio equipment I owned with the sole exception of pickup
    > cartridges--pre-solid state of course. It was a lot of fun and the
    > results varied from wow! to hmmm! If I tried that now I would either
    > burn my house down or crash the city power supply.
    > Allen


    Last stereo upgrade was an ASUS optic card to feed this. . .
    http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DEQ2496.aspx

    Other day I ran into this. . .
    http://www.stereotool.com/

    which will draw most all the resources to heat up a perfectly
    respectable 85-watt P4/3.2gHz, while attempting effectively to negate
    much of the first link's functions. Web station broadcasters, sound
    and programming engineering, the very people that have taken a fair
    share of sparkle out of shortwave receivers the past decade. If it
    weren't for ASIO layering over 10 years of PCI architecture latency
    restrictions, PCs may have made much more serious inroads into
    recording advancements.
     
    Flasherly, Dec 5, 2011
    #13
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