really big outline and non-outline?

[Peter T. Daniels]

I'm now doing a book that will eventually have 87 chapters. The
chapters will be numbered (for use in cross references), but the
headings within the chapters will be outline-numbered simply 1, 1,1,
1,2, 2, 2,1, 2,2 (starting over in each one, of course, but not
beginning with the chapter number).

I don't know yet whether figures and tables will be numbered straight
through, or with chapter no. + individual no.

There is a cumulative bibliography at the end, and presumably there
will be an index, so I think it will eventually have to be a single
file (I don't suppose Master Documents has ever been fixed?).

Is there a guide to outline numbering that will show me how to do all
this?

Hmm, in order to restart the footnotes in each chapter, does it need
Section Breaks, or would calling a Paragraph Style "Chapter" suffice?

 

[Stefan Blom]

You can set up an outline using the built-in headings; just omit numbering from level 1. See http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/outlinenumbering.html.

Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP




"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message
I'm now doing a book that will eventually have 87 chapters. The
chapters will be numbered (for use in cross references), but the
headings within the chapters will be outline-numbered simply 1, 1,1,
1,2, 2, 2,1, 2,2 (starting over in each one, of course, but not
beginning with the chapter number).

I don't know yet whether figures and tables will be numbered straight
through, or with chapter no. + individual no.

There is a cumulative bibliography at the end, and presumably there
will be an index, so I think it will eventually have to be a single
file (I don't suppose Master Documents has ever been fixed?).

Is there a guide to outline numbering that will show me how to do all
this?

Hmm, in order to restart the footnotes in each chapter, does it need
Section Breaks, or would calling a Paragraph Style "Chapter" suffice?

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Are you saying that you will have subheads numbered 1, 2, 3, etc., within
each chapter, and that the chapter number will not be included in any of
these numbers? If so, then Stefan's suggestion of a multilevel list with
Level 1 unnumbered (but used to restart the Level 2 numbering) will work,
but if you want to include the chapter number in the captions (and otherwise
cross-reference it), you will have to include it in in your Level 1
numbering (you still wouldn't have include Level 1 numbering in any lower
level).

To restart footnote numbering in each chapter, you do need section breaks
between chapters. Note also that Word takes "Restart each section" very
literally. If your chapter contains more than one section (because you've
had to insert breaks for multi-column material or a landscape page), the
footnote numbering will restart at each section break. So this really gives
you the option of using continuous numbering or restarting on each page. For
footnotes, unless you will need cross-references to the footnotes,
restarting on each page is probably okay, though I think I'd be inclined to
make the numbering continuous unless there are hundreds (and probably even
then).

Endnotes are even more problematic if you want to put them at the end of
each chapter: you can suppress them for sections that are not the end of the
chapter, but if you've restarted numbering in each section, the numbering
will still be restarted even when they're ganged at the end of the chapter.
This has been an issue in Word for many, many versions, and it seems
unlikely we'll ever get enough interest to get it fixed.

I would strongly advise that you keep the entire document in a single file.
This hugely facilitates not only outline numbering but also creation of TOC
and index, and it avoids the problems that arise when you try to combine
separate documents and get all the numbering and other kinks straightened
out. If you get your headers/footers/numbering working in a single document,
then you don't have to fool with it all over again when combining multiple
documents.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

 

[Peter T. Daniels]

Are you saying that you will have subheads numbered 1, 2, 3, etc., within
each chapter, and that the chapter number will not be included in any of
these numbers?
Yes.

If so, then Stefan's suggestion of a multilevel list with
Level 1 unnumbered (but used to restart the Level 2 numbering) will work,
but if you want to include the chapter number in the captions (and otherwise
cross-reference it), you will have to include it in in your Level 1
numbering (you still wouldn't have include Level 1 numbering in any lower
level).

But the caption numbering and the heading numbering should be
independent of each other -- having it IN in one Level 1 and OUT in
the other Level 1 shouldn't be a problem?

To restart footnote numbering in each chapter, you do need section breaks
between chapters. Note also that Word takes "Restart each section" very
literally. If your chapter contains more than one section (because you've
had to insert breaks for multi-column material or a landscape page), the
footnote numbering will restart at each section break.

It seems very unlikely that I will have to do either of those things
-- I'm not typesetting (CRC), just editing. The Word files would seem
to go to TeX or some such. If I do need columns for something, I would
just use a table.

So this really gives
you the option of using continuous numbering or restarting on each page. For
footnotes, unless you will need cross-references to the footnotes,
restarting on each page is probably okay, though I think I'd be inclined to
make the numbering continuous unless there are hundreds (and probably even
then).

Endnotes are even more problematic if you want to put them at the end of
each chapter: you can suppress them for sections that are not the end of the
chapter, but if you've restarted numbering in each section, the numbering
will still be restarted even when they're ganged at the end of the chapter.
This has been an issue in Word for many, many versions, and it seems
unlikely we'll ever get enough interest to get it fixed.

I would never voluntarily use endnotes. (Not my problem here, though!)

I would strongly advise that you keep the entire document in a single file.
This hugely facilitates not only outline numbering but also creation of TOC
and index, and it avoids the problems that arise when you try to combine
separate documents and get all the numbering and other kinks straightened
out. If you get your headers/footers/numbering working in a single document,
then you don't have to fool with it all over again when combining multiple
documents.

Well, they have to be initially edited individually, so that I can
insert the bibliography for each chapter so the authors can review
them.

With such a large bibliography, I fear I will have to enter into the
obscure world of programming a new style that actually adheres to
Chicago practice, using Yves Duhout's site that assumes you know what
he's talking about to begin with. Or has a more user-friendly set of
instructions, or even UI, become available elsewhere?

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

No, the numbering of Level 1 can be independent of the lower levels, but
Level 1 can still be used to restart the numbering at Level 2. If you're
doing each chapter as a separate file, though, then there's not much point.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Are you saying that you will have subheads numbered 1, 2, 3, etc., within
each chapter, and that the chapter number will not be included in any of
these numbers?
Yes.

If so, then Stefan's suggestion of a multilevel list with
Level 1 unnumbered (but used to restart the Level 2 numbering) will work,
but if you want to include the chapter number in the captions (and
otherwise
cross-reference it), you will have to include it in in your Level 1
numbering (you still wouldn't have include Level 1 numbering in any lower
level).

But the caption numbering and the heading numbering should be
independent of each other -- having it IN in one Level 1 and OUT in
the other Level 1 shouldn't be a problem?

To restart footnote numbering in each chapter, you do need section breaks
between chapters. Note also that Word takes "Restart each section" very
literally. If your chapter contains more than one section (because you've
had to insert breaks for multi-column material or a landscape page), the
footnote numbering will restart at each section break.

It seems very unlikely that I will have to do either of those things
-- I'm not typesetting (CRC), just editing. The Word files would seem
to go to TeX or some such. If I do need columns for something, I would
just use a table.

So this really gives
you the option of using continuous numbering or restarting on each page.
For
footnotes, unless you will need cross-references to the footnotes,
restarting on each page is probably okay, though I think I'd be inclined
to
make the numbering continuous unless there are hundreds (and probably even
then).

Endnotes are even more problematic if you want to put them at the end of
each chapter: you can suppress them for sections that are not the end of
the
chapter, but if you've restarted numbering in each section, the numbering
will still be restarted even when they're ganged at the end of the
chapter.
This has been an issue in Word for many, many versions, and it seems
unlikely we'll ever get enough interest to get it fixed.

I would never voluntarily use endnotes. (Not my problem here, though!)

I would strongly advise that you keep the entire document in a single
file.
This hugely facilitates not only outline numbering but also creation of
TOC
and index, and it avoids the problems that arise when you try to combine
separate documents and get all the numbering and other kinks straightened
out. If you get your headers/footers/numbering working in a single
document,
then you don't have to fool with it all over again when combining multiple
documents.

Well, they have to be initially edited individually, so that I can
insert the bibliography for each chapter so the authors can review
them.

With such a large bibliography, I fear I will have to enter into the
obscure world of programming a new style that actually adheres to
Chicago practice, using Yves Duhout's site that assumes you know what
he's talking about to begin with. Or has a more user-friendly set of
instructions, or even UI, become available elsewhere?

 

[Peter T. Daniels]

After each author has seen and approved their chapter, they are set
aside until they are combined into the book file. (ISTR that cross
references can be made outside the file being edited at the moment. I
assume they would survive the combining into the book file.) (Once
again, why couldn't MS rather than Adobe have taken over
FrameMaker!!!)

So I guess no one has come up with a better way to edit/create
bibliography styles.