Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

Discussion in 'Computer Hardware' started by Skybuck Flying, Jul 3, 2005.

  1. Actually I just looked at the manual (downloaded it from the website)

    This is a pretty cool board. I dont know how common it is on other boards...
    probably common ;)

    But it also has a primary and secondary ide slot/connector so that old
    harddisks can be connected as well.. cool !

    It also has 4 sata connectors so I guess that is at least room for 6
    harddrives ?

    I am not sure if the sata raid connectors can be used as normal sata
    connectors ?

    What if I dont want to use raid ?

    One last question about this board...

    What is the default bios version ? I would like to buy/use this board with
    athlon x2 processor... I dont have any other processors... so flashing the
    bios is not an option for me ;)

    Bye,
    Skybuck.

    "Skybuck Flying" <> wrote in message news:...
    > Hi,
    >
    > Can SATA II harddisks be used with SATA I motherboards ?
    >
    > In otherwords are SATA II harddisk backwards compatible with just SATA ?
    >
    > Does this motherboard: Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe support SATA II harddisks ?
    >
    > Would I need an extra controller to connect the harddisks or do I simply
    > connect them
    > directly to the motherboard ?
    >
    > It seems this motherboard can support 8 harddisks ???
    >
    > What kind of casing is needed for that ??
    >
    > Bye,
    > Skybuck.
    >
    >
     
    Skybuck Flying, Jul 3, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. Skybuck Flying

    Mark A Guest

    "Skybuck Flying" <> wrote in message
    news:da8p45$tur$1.ov.home.nl...
    >
    > It also has 4 sata connectors so I guess that is at least room for 6
    > harddrives ?


    Each IDE connector can handle 2 drives (master and slave).

    > I am not sure if the sata raid connectors can be used as normal sata
    > connectors ?


    They are not RAID connectors, the are SATA connectors. RAID is a
    configuration, not a drive connection type.

    > What if I dont want to use raid ?


    No problem.

    > One last question about this board...
    >
    > What is the default bios version ? I would like to buy/use this board with
    > athlon x2 processor... I dont have any other processors... so flashing the
    > bios is not an option for me ;)


    If you want the X2 you need to purchase the board and CPU from a reatiler
    that will flash the bios with the lastest version or you will be dead in the
    water.Moarch Computer is one vendor who will do this if you ask them to.
    http://www.monarchcomputer.com
     
    Mark A, Jul 3, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. "Mark A" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Skybuck Flying" <> wrote in message
    > news:da8p45$tur$1.ov.home.nl...
    > >
    > > It also has 4 sata connectors so I guess that is at least room for 6
    > > harddrives ?

    >
    > Each IDE connector can handle 2 drives (master and slave).
    >
    > > I am not sure if the sata raid connectors can be used as normal sata
    > > connectors ?

    >
    > They are not RAID connectors, the are SATA connectors. RAID is a
    > configuration, not a drive connection type.
    >
    > > What if I dont want to use raid ?

    >
    > No problem.
    >
    > > One last question about this board...
    > >
    > > What is the default bios version ? I would like to buy/use this board

    with
    > > athlon x2 processor... I dont have any other processors... so flashing

    the
    > > bios is not an option for me ;)

    >
    > If you want the X2 you need to purchase the board and CPU from a reatiler
    > that will flash the bios with the lastest version or you will be dead in

    the
    > water.Moarch Computer is one vendor who will do this if you ask them to.
    > http://www.monarchcomputer.com


    Hmm I was thinking about buying all parts seperatly so that I can check if
    all parts are new etc... by looking if all packages are closed etc. In other
    words I dont want anybody else to mess with my new stuff :)

    How long before asus ships a new motherboard that supports athlon x2
    processors out of the box... that's what I am wondering about =D

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Jul 3, 2005
    #3
  4. Skybuck Flying

    Mark A Guest

    "Skybuck Flying" <> wrote in message
    news:da98ia$puc$1.ov.home.nl...
    >
    > Hmm I was thinking about buying all parts seperatly so that I can check if
    > all parts are new etc... by looking if all packages are closed etc. In
    > other
    > words I dont want anybody else to mess with my new stuff :)
    >
    > How long before asus ships a new motherboard that supports athlon x2
    > processors out of the box... that's what I am wondering about =D
    >
    > Bye,
    > Skybuck.
    >

    Since the X2 is brand new, I don't think anyone will mess up your new stuff.
    if you don't buy from a vendor like Monarch who will install the bios for
    you, then you had better have your own old CPU to get the bios up to date.

    It sounds like you have some severe psychological problems you need to
    overcome before you think about building a new PC.
     
    Mark A, Jul 3, 2005
    #4
  5. Skybuck Flying

    Eric Gisin Guest

    "Mark A" <> wrote in message news:...
    > "Skybuck Flying" <> wrote in message
    > news:da98ia$puc$1.ov.home.nl...
    > >
    > > Hmm I was thinking about buying all parts seperatly so that I can check if
    > > all parts are new etc... by looking if all packages are closed etc. In
    > > other
    > > words I dont want anybody else to mess with my new stuff :)
    > >
    > > How long before asus ships a new motherboard that supports athlon x2
    > > processors out of the box... that's what I am wondering about =D
    > >

    > Since the X2 is brand new, I don't think anyone will mess up your new stuff.
    > if you don't buy from a vendor like Monarch who will install the bios for
    > you, then you had better have your own old CPU to get the bios up to date.
    >
    > It sounds like you have some severe psychological problems you need to
    > overcome before you think about building a new PC.
    >

    The alt.comp trolls are a funny bunch. Tell us your diagnosis, Doctor.
     
    Eric Gisin, Jul 3, 2005
    #5
  6. Skybuck Flying

    Ron Reaugh Guest

    "Eric Gisin" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > The alt.comp trolls are a funny bunch. Tell us your diagnosis, Doctor.



    Confine your posts to the business of this NG.
     
    Ron Reaugh, Jul 3, 2005
    #6
  7. Skybuck Flying

    Rod Speed Guest

    Ron Reaugh <> wrote in message
    news:3%Xxe.1074358$...
    > Eric Gisin <> wrote


    >> The alt.comp trolls are a funny bunch. Tell us your diagnosis, Doctor.


    > Confine your posts to the business of this NG.


    Get ****ed.
     
    Rod Speed, Jul 3, 2005
    #7
  8. Skybuck Flying

    Natéag Guest

    They surely will sell the same board with the latest BIOS installed.


    "Skybuck Flying" <> a écrit dans le message de news:
    da98ia$puc$1.ov.home.nl...
    >
    > "Mark A" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> "Skybuck Flying" <> wrote in message
    >> news:da8p45$tur$1.ov.home.nl...
    >> >
    >> > It also has 4 sata connectors so I guess that is at least room for 6
    >> > harddrives ?

    >>
    >> Each IDE connector can handle 2 drives (master and slave).
    >>
    >> > I am not sure if the sata raid connectors can be used as normal sata
    >> > connectors ?

    >>
    >> They are not RAID connectors, the are SATA connectors. RAID is a
    >> configuration, not a drive connection type.
    >>
    >> > What if I dont want to use raid ?

    >>
    >> No problem.
    >>
    >> > One last question about this board...
    >> >
    >> > What is the default bios version ? I would like to buy/use this board

    > with
    >> > athlon x2 processor... I dont have any other processors... so flashing

    > the
    >> > bios is not an option for me ;)

    >>
    >> If you want the X2 you need to purchase the board and CPU from a reatiler
    >> that will flash the bios with the lastest version or you will be dead in

    > the
    >> water.Moarch Computer is one vendor who will do this if you ask them to.
    >> http://www.monarchcomputer.com

    >
    > Hmm I was thinking about buying all parts seperatly so that I can check if
    > all parts are new etc... by looking if all packages are closed etc. In
    > other
    > words I dont want anybody else to mess with my new stuff :)
    >
    > How long before asus ships a new motherboard that supports athlon x2
    > processors out of the box... that's what I am wondering about =D
    >
    > Bye,
    > Skybuck.
    >
    >
     
    Natéag, Jul 3, 2005
    #8
  9. Skybuck Flying

    Mark A Guest

    "Natéag" <> wrote in message
    news:X3Zxe.3893$...
    > They surely will sell the same board with the latest BIOS installed.
    >

    I don't know if Asus will always ship a board with the latest bios (by the
    time it reaches the retailer), but at some point they will ship a mb with a
    bios that supports the X2. Retailers like Monarch will install the necessary
    bios for your if you buy the CPU and mb from them (they will not use X2 CPU
    to install the bios). I don't understand why anyone would have a problem
    with that.
     
    Mark A, Jul 3, 2005
    #9
  10. Well I have compared the amd athlon x2 processor + nvidia nforce 4 chipset
    vs the intel pentium 4 extreme edition + intel 955x chipset.

    I have looked at benchmarks, features, software optimization guides and
    manuals.

    In general I like the athlon x2 and nvidia nforce 4 chipset a lot and here
    is why :)

    1. Bios voice stuff:

    The coolest thing is the "bios voice reporter stuff".

    For example when the keyboard is not plugged in and the voice stuff is
    enabled it will say with a human voice: "no keyboard plugged in" or
    something like that.

    There is even a boot option so everytime you boot it says:

    "booting computer" or something like that.

    It's even possible to replace these voice message with your own voice which
    could be lot's of fun everytime you start your pc.

    I could say something like: "welcome skybuck" :)

    Anyway that's just way cool and I want to see it in action ;)

    2. Best performance in AMD/NVidia 4 corner occording to many websites...
    which is not too surprising looking at the facts/theory:

    Athlon x2 4800+ fastest... occording to benchmarks.

    Theory:

    SLI can support two graphics cards.

    DDR memory has lower latency than DDRII memory.

    Athlon X2 has onboard memory controller halving the latency even further.

    3. Software optimization guide...

    AMD's software optimization guide was clear, short and straight to the
    point...

    However it didn't go into the multi threading stuff that much etc...

    Intel looked at it from a little bit higher view... focusing more on
    threading and cache stuff etc...
    The general impression was that software would have to be optimized a lot
    for the intel processor to achieve more performance which might be a little
    bit too much to ask for programmers etc... In the end the software has to be
    able to run on AMD and INTEL processors as well as possible. Though intel
    did provide some very interesting examples for 3d engines etc... ;)

    So in short AMD's software optimization guide was pretty simple and easy to
    follow but I also kinda liked the intel software optimization guide ;)
    though a bit more complex and harder to follow ;)

    What I don't like about intel stuff is the following stuff:

    - No cool bios voice stuff.. just the normal (pretty stupid beeping :))
    which is a big turn off for me lol :D... zero innovation ;)

    - Much higher power/watt/ampere requirements etc... more expensive for
    electril bill and needs big expensive power unit...

    Though intel has some little points going (possibly)

    + 8 GB ram support (but no 2 GB ram chips available ?)
    + SATA II support (nvidia nforce 4 is only sata I support ?)
    + Asus is using passive cooling for some chips... (not sure what nvidia
    nforce 4 boards are using ?)

    This last point is something I am definetly going to look further into
    because I just ****ing hate cooling fans since they attract lot's of dust
    and make noise etc... I ****ing hate em ;)
    I live in a very dustry environment ;)

    Though I never cleaned my pentium III cooling fan and it's still working
    after 5 years which is pretty amazing... I did blow off some dust sometime.
    My power fan having has to be cleaned at least once in two years etc.

    So I wonder if any cooling fans are sleave or ball bearing... The sleave
    bearing fans are probably worse because dust can get inside of them... the
    cpu fan is probably a ball bearing fan which probably explains why it is
    still going strong ;)

    However having everything passively cooled invokes fear inside of me... fear
    that not enough air flow is inside the motherboard... heat building up and
    chips dieing ;) I do have a fanless video card (fx5200) and it's still
    working... it too is passively cooled.

    The biggest drawback for AMD/Athlon x2 4800+ is the bios problem... a flash
    is needed.

    + So having a intel motherboard which works right out of the box which is
    available too is a big plus ;)

    + Also the intel motherboard supports DDR2 memory... will this is slower it
    is the future of memory chips so probably not much to worry about
    availability of those chips.. However I plan to buy as much memory as
    possible so for me it's not a problem... unless the chips die in the future
    ;)

    So the asus intel motherboards have some strong points going for them ;)
    (P5WD2 Premium (asus/intel/intel) vs A8N-SLI deluxe (asus/amd/nvidia) )

    1. Immediate availability of motherboard and processor right out of the box.
    2. Passive cooling of motherboard chips. (I think the processor still has a
    fan which might be good for a little bit of airflow ? However passive
    cooling for the cpu might be very impressive too ;) )
    3. DDR II memory chips (slower but the future)
    4. SATA II support
    5. Possibly 8 GB ram support ? I expect 4 GB of ram to be enough for the
    coming 5 years. The pc will probably last 5 years... then it would need
    replacing to keep up with the games ;)
    (Within a year I expect the minimum ammount of ram to be 1GB for longhorn...
    even 2 GB for gaming... then slowly it will go up to 4 GB after a couple of
    years ;) ) so I think 8 GB of ram could be too much for the coming 5 years
    ;) however... it never hurts to have extra memory ;)
    6. Better realtek codec 882d high definition (audio)

    I am a little bit worried about the AI NOS feature... it will automatically
    overclock the system if a game needs more performance... I am worried about
    overheating or crashes...

    Well it's a though decision...

    There is one more thing ofcourse... the intel pentium 4 extreme processor
    acts like 4 cpu's... which could be better in case windows xp 64 bit has
    many threads running at once... hyper threading tries to use parts of a
    processor which are not used by other threads ;)

    On one hand we have this overheating nvidia nforce 4 sli chip... but maybe
    it only overheats with two graphics cards... but a cooler athlon x2
    processor ?
    at least it uses less power...

    On the other hand we have this cooler intel chipset ?? passively cool...
    which could get a bit hotter but ok... but also a pretty hot power consuming
    processor ? ;) hmmmmmmmmm. Which requires a power consuming psu which also
    could get quit hot... hmmmmmmmmm... :)

    If asus would come out with a new motherboard which would support the athlon
    x2 processor out of the box and maybe with passive cooling for the
    chipsets... then I would be sold ;) and go for it =D add in 8 GB of ram
    support and maybe sata II support <- but maybe that s not possible with
    nvidia nforce 4 chipset... and it s even a better deal ;) oh yeah and
    ofcourse the better realtek audio.. however I will probably get an
    additional sound card for extra fps or maybe not =D

    The biggest problem is I want to build my own system and have all brand new
    components in a sealed package... I do not want to buy used components etc,
    which might be malfunctioning etc ;)

    (maybe the intel raid controller is better too... who knows ;) but I am not
    that interested in raid ;) the biggest frustration is the limited i/o
    operations of harddisk in general... raid won't help that much... so I'll go
    with seperate harddisk and a page file on a seperate harddisk ;) and
    ofcourse windows software tweaks ;))

    However I might give raid 0 a try just for kicks to see the transfer speed
    etc... maybe to store games on it for faster load times... but the harddisk
    might not be the problem... maybe it's the decompressing of zip files etc...
    which means cpu limited etc ;) :)

    Bye,
    Skybuck.

    "Natéag" <> wrote in message
    news:X3Zxe.3893$...
    > They surely will sell the same board with the latest BIOS installed.
    >
    >
    > "Skybuck Flying" <> a écrit dans le message de news:
    > da98ia$puc$1.ov.home.nl...
    > >
    > > "Mark A" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > >> "Skybuck Flying" <> wrote in message
    > >> news:da8p45$tur$1.ov.home.nl...
    > >> >
    > >> > It also has 4 sata connectors so I guess that is at least room for 6
    > >> > harddrives ?
    > >>
    > >> Each IDE connector can handle 2 drives (master and slave).
    > >>
    > >> > I am not sure if the sata raid connectors can be used as normal sata
    > >> > connectors ?
    > >>
    > >> They are not RAID connectors, the are SATA connectors. RAID is a
    > >> configuration, not a drive connection type.
    > >>
    > >> > What if I dont want to use raid ?
    > >>
    > >> No problem.
    > >>
    > >> > One last question about this board...
    > >> >
    > >> > What is the default bios version ? I would like to buy/use this board

    > > with
    > >> > athlon x2 processor... I dont have any other processors... so

    flashing
    > > the
    > >> > bios is not an option for me ;)
    > >>
    > >> If you want the X2 you need to purchase the board and CPU from a

    reatiler
    > >> that will flash the bios with the lastest version or you will be dead

    in
    > > the
    > >> water.Moarch Computer is one vendor who will do this if you ask them

    to.
    > >> http://www.monarchcomputer.com

    > >
    > > Hmm I was thinking about buying all parts seperatly so that I can check

    if
    > > all parts are new etc... by looking if all packages are closed etc. In
    > > other
    > > words I dont want anybody else to mess with my new stuff :)
    > >
    > > How long before asus ships a new motherboard that supports athlon x2
    > > processors out of the box... that's what I am wondering about =D
    > >
    > > Bye,
    > > Skybuck.
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Skybuck Flying, Jul 4, 2005
    #10
  11. Skybuck Flying

    Rod Speed Guest

    "Skybuck Flying" <> wrote in message
    news:da9r85$a0t$1.ov.home.nl...
    >
    > "Mark A" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> "Natéag" <> wrote in message
    >> news:X3Zxe.3893$...
    >> > They surely will sell the same board with the latest BIOS installed.
    >> >

    >> I don't know if Asus will always ship a board with the latest bios (by the
    >> time it reaches the retailer), but at some point they will ship a mb with

    > a
    >> bios that supports the X2. Retailers like Monarch will install the

    > necessary
    >> bios for your if you buy the CPU and mb from them (they will not use X2

    > CPU
    >> to install the bios). I don't understand why anyone would have a problem
    >> with that.
    >>

    >
    > How would a buyer know if the motherboard is brand new or used ?
    >
    > If it was used by another buyer it might have been damaged by that buyer and
    > return to the (web)store...
    >
    > So I believe a sealed package could be a good indication that it is in fact
    > brand new etc.
    >
    > Unless webstore owners are able to fake it and re-seal the packaging ;)


    Anyone with a clue can.

    > (Maybe I ll send an e-mail to the webstore where I plan on buying it
    > to see if asus delivers these motherboards with updated bioses ? ;) )
     
    Rod Speed, Jul 4, 2005
    #11
  12. "Mark A" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Natéag" <> wrote in message
    > news:X3Zxe.3893$...
    > > They surely will sell the same board with the latest BIOS installed.
    > >

    > I don't know if Asus will always ship a board with the latest bios (by the
    > time it reaches the retailer), but at some point they will ship a mb with

    a
    > bios that supports the X2. Retailers like Monarch will install the

    necessary
    > bios for your if you buy the CPU and mb from them (they will not use X2

    CPU
    > to install the bios). I don't understand why anyone would have a problem
    > with that.
    >


    How would a buyer know if the motherboard is brand new or used ?

    If it was used by another buyer it might have been damaged by that buyer and
    return to the (web)store...

    So I believe a sealed package could be a good indication that it is in fact
    brand new etc.

    Unless webstore owners are able to fake it and re-seal the packaging ;)

    (Maybe I ll send an e-mail to the webstore where I plan on buying it to see
    if asus delivers these motherboards
    with updated bioses ? ;) )

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Jul 4, 2005
    #12
  13. Skybuck Flying

    kony Guest

    On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 01:18:57 +0200, "Skybuck Flying"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"Mark A" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> "Natéag" <> wrote in message
    >> news:X3Zxe.3893$...
    >> > They surely will sell the same board with the latest BIOS installed.
    >> >

    >> I don't know if Asus will always ship a board with the latest bios (by the
    >> time it reaches the retailer), but at some point they will ship a mb with

    >a
    >> bios that supports the X2. Retailers like Monarch will install the

    >necessary
    >> bios for your if you buy the CPU and mb from them (they will not use X2

    >CPU
    >> to install the bios). I don't understand why anyone would have a problem
    >> with that.
    >>

    >
    >How would a buyer know if the motherboard is brand new or used ?


    Some indicators might be wear on the clips, marks on the
    screw holes, or bios settings changed. It's easier when you
    have a knwn new board to compare to.

    >
    >If it was used by another buyer it might have been damaged by that buyer and
    >return to the (web)store...


    Read the seller's terms, conditions, etc, pages. Any
    reputible seller will not resell a board as new if it's
    already been returned by someone else or otherwise had any
    type of "use" beyond possibly opening the box to take a
    serial # off of it if that wasn't listed on the outside of
    the box.


    >
    >So I believe a sealed package could be a good indication that it is in fact
    >brand new etc.
    >
    >Unless webstore owners are able to fake it and re-seal the packaging ;)


    Often it wouldn't be hard to reseal a package well enough
    that a consumer buying only one didn't know the difference.
    Even at local stores you may find they'll re-shrinkwrap
    things, but on close inspection the shrink-wrap may not look
    same as the factory wrap- so you'd need have something to
    compare.



    >
    >(Maybe I ll send an e-mail to the webstore where I plan on buying it to see
    >if asus delivers these motherboards
    >with updated bioses ? ;) )



    Yes, when they leave Asus they have a then-current bios.
    They may've spend some time in distribution channels or on a
    stock shelf at the seller's warehouse though, so even
    knowing it is in fact a new board is not an assurance that
    it has the newest-released bios. If the seller can
    guarantee a certain board revision #, you might be able to
    find which those revisions shipped with, or ask in a
    motherboard oriented usenet or web forum.
     
    kony, Jul 4, 2005
    #13
  14. Skybuck Flying

    Mark A Guest

    "Skybuck Flying" <> wrote in message
    news:da9r85$a0t$1.ov.home.nl...
    >
    > How would a buyer know if the motherboard is brand new or used ?
    >
    > If it was used by another buyer it might have been damaged by that buyer
    > and
    > return to the (web)store...
    >
    > So I believe a sealed package could be a good indication that it is in
    > fact
    > brand new etc.
    >
    > Unless webstore owners are able to fake it and re-seal the packaging ;)
    >
    > (Maybe I ll send an e-mail to the webstore where I plan on buying it to
    > see
    > if asus delivers these motherboards
    > with updated bioses ? ;) )
    >
    > Bye,
    > Skybuck.
    >

    Why would a store sell defective merchandise that is still under warranty by
    the manufacturer to another customer? Do you think that retailers are in the
    business of screwing their customers for no reason? Retailers (and
    customers) can send defective merchandise back to the manufacturer for a
    replacement. Internet retailers are especially sensitive to word of mouth
    concerning their reputation.

    BTW, Asus motherboards do not come in sealed packaging (neither the retail
    packaging nor the anti-static bag is sealed). I am sure this will upset you
    greatly, so maybe you should purchase a different brand.

    For Asus motherboards, unless the retailer will test the motherboard
    themselves (no longer new?) then they cannot tell what the bios is.
     
    Mark A, Jul 4, 2005
    #14
  15. Skybuck Flying

    Mark A Guest

    "kony" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Yes, when they leave Asus they have a then-current bios.
    > They may've spend some time in distribution channels or on a
    > stock shelf at the seller's warehouse though, so even
    > knowing it is in fact a new board is not an assurance that
    > it has the newest-released bios. If the seller can
    > guarantee a certain board revision #, you might be able to
    > find which those revisions shipped with, or ask in a
    > motherboard oriented usenet or web forum.
    >

    That can be awhile since the MBs are made in the Far East, are not shipped
    via air, go to the USA distributor, then go to the retailer, then the
    consumer. So I think the lag time is probably a few months to get the latest
    bios, and by that time a newer bios may issued (but you only need a bios
    recent enough to boot successfully).

    This should not be a concern since some retailers will update the bios if
    you purchase the CPU and mb from them. Monarch Computers is one of those
    retailers. I have never purchased from them, but on other forums where I
    heard about them, all the comments were positive.
     
    Mark A, Jul 4, 2005
    #15
  16. Skybuck Flying

    kony Guest

    On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 18:11:33 -0600, "Mark A"
    <> wrote:


    >Why would a store sell defective merchandise that is still under warranty by
    >the manufacturer to another customer?


    Because any kind of "use", that-is, anything that
    disqualifies it from being "new" still, doesn't necessarily
    make it returnable to the manufacturer.

    Suppose someone orders a board, seller ships wrong board and
    buyer opens it, or one of myriad other reasons, returns the
    board but it's not defective. Seller then has to recoup
    that loss though charging a return fee, then selling it as
    used, or with disreputible sellers, they may charge a return
    fee AND resell it as new. Or, some don't seem to think they
    have to have to sell something that is new unless it is
    specifically advertised as "new". They, unlike most
    sellers, may think they can just sell anything at all and if
    the customer doesn't like it- who cares, THEY have the
    customer's money and at worst they will just put the
    customer though hell trying to get a refund.

    Eventually the BBB and other online ratings 'sites show they
    have a bad reputation- but no matter, they just change
    company name and repeat same practices.


    >Do you think that retailers are in the
    >business of screwing their customers for no reason?


    Profit is their reason. It's all about $. They can't
    compete with big/mature businesses in service or their
    volume purchases price-per-unit, so they cut every corner
    than can (legally and sometimes illegally).

    Yes some do unquestionably screw customers. Example- buy
    junk PC1600 memory. Slap a fradulent "PC3200" sticker on it
    and sell it as "PC3200". Seller buys it, claims it has
    errors, but their website says "products returned that test
    good have restocking fee". They claim it tested good.

    I had it happen to me once exactly like this, but I had
    looked up the specs for the chips and they were not spec'd
    to run that fast- it was technically impossible for it to be
    PC3200 memory. Even so, even after clearly informing the
    seller, I had to get the credit card company involved to
    dispute it.

    >Retailers (and
    >customers) can send defective merchandise back to the manufacturer for a
    >replacement. Internet retailers are especially sensitive to word of mouth
    >concerning their reputation.


    That only covers manufacturer defect- most boards are not
    defective, rather damaged by seller, shipper, user, or
    simply not set up properly. Also, suppose seller did not
    purchase directly from the manufacturer but rather a
    distributor. It could take so long to get boards back that
    by that time the board (technology) has depreciated, the
    seller still takes a loss.

    >
    >BTW, Asus motherboards do not come in sealed packaging (neither the retail
    >packaging nor the anti-static bag is sealed). I am sure this will upset you
    >greatly, so maybe you should purchase a different brand.
    >
    >For Asus motherboards, unless the retailer will test the motherboard
    >themselves (no longer new?) then they cannot tell what the bios is.



    What about the sticker on the EEPROM?
     
    kony, Jul 4, 2005
    #16
  17. Skybuck Flying

    Mark A Guest

    "kony" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Because any kind of "use", that-is, anything that
    > disqualifies it from being "new" still, doesn't necessarily
    > make it returnable to the manufacturer.
    >
    > Suppose someone orders a board, seller ships wrong board and
    > buyer opens it, or one of myriad other reasons, returns the
    > board but it's not defective. Seller then has to recoup
    > that loss though charging a return fee, then selling it as
    > used, or with disreputible sellers, they may charge a return
    > fee AND resell it as new. Or, some don't seem to think they
    > have to have to sell something that is new unless it is
    > specifically advertised as "new". They, unlike most
    > sellers, may think they can just sell anything at all and if
    > the customer doesn't like it- who cares, THEY have the
    > customer's money and at worst they will just put the
    > customer though hell trying to get a refund.
    >
    > Eventually the BBB and other online ratings 'sites show they
    > have a bad reputation- but no matter, they just change
    > company name and repeat same practices.
    >
    >
    > Profit is their reason. It's all about $. They can't
    > compete with big/mature businesses in service or their
    > volume purchases price-per-unit, so they cut every corner
    > than can (legally and sometimes illegally).
    >
    > Yes some do unquestionably screw customers. Example- buy
    > junk PC1600 memory. Slap a fradulent "PC3200" sticker on it
    > and sell it as "PC3200". Seller buys it, claims it has
    > errors, but their website says "products returned that test
    > good have restocking fee". They claim it tested good.
    >
    > I had it happen to me once exactly like this, but I had
    > looked up the specs for the chips and they were not spec'd
    > to run that fast- it was technically impossible for it to be
    > PC3200 memory. Even so, even after clearly informing the
    > seller, I had to get the credit card company involved to
    > dispute it.
    >
    > That only covers manufacturer defect- most boards are not
    > defective, rather damaged by seller, shipper, user, or
    > simply not set up properly. Also, suppose seller did not
    > purchase directly from the manufacturer but rather a
    > distributor. It could take so long to get boards back that
    > by that time the board (technology) has depreciated, the
    > seller still takes a loss.


    > What about the sticker on the EEPROM?
    >

    So you expect the retailer to open the box and check the EEPROM? Wouldn't
    that make it used if they opened the box? I don't know whether Asus puts a
    sticker on their motherboards with the bios version and I am not going to
    open my PC to find out.

    Monarch Computer is one retailer that will perform the bios upgrade service
    for customers who buy the mb and CPU from them. If you don't want that
    service, don't get it. Just get the MB and the X2 CPU, boot up the system
    and look at the black screen. That will make you very happy to know that all
    your components are brand new, even if they don't work.

    What a bunch of paranoid idiots.
     
    Mark A, Jul 4, 2005
    #17
  18. Skybuck Flying

    Eric Gisin Guest

    "Ron Reaugh" <> wrote in message
    news:3%Xxe.1074358$...
    >
    > "Eric Gisin" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    > > The alt.comp trolls are a funny bunch. Tell us your diagnosis, Doctor.

    >
    > Confine your posts to the business of this NG.
    >

    Jawohl, mein Führer!
     
    Eric Gisin, Jul 4, 2005
    #18
  19. Skybuck Flying

    kony Guest

    On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 19:41:02 -0600, "Mark A"
    <> wrote:


    >
    >> What about the sticker on the EEPROM?
    >>

    >So you expect the retailer to open the box and check the EEPROM?


    Never said I did, but it IS a way they can confirm the bios
    version, whether the customer asks or not.



    >Wouldn't
    >that make it used if they opened the box?


    No, unless you think they "used" it to do so.
    Since there is no reason for them to be doing this EEPROM
    check without a customer specifically asking, I would
    suggest that if a prospective customer doesn't want it
    opened to check on this, then they simply shouldn't ask the
    seller to check. If I bought a board that had been opened
    for this check, and I knew factually that this was all they
    did, I would not care... I cannot speak for anyone else.



    >I don't know whether Asus puts a
    >sticker on their motherboards with the bios version and I am not going to
    >open my PC to find out.


    Huh? It won't bite you.
    I only mentioned it because I'd noticed it over and over
    again, there is a sticker on the EEPROM. Take the info for
    whatever it is worth, or don't.



    >Monarch Computer is one retailer that will perform the bios upgrade service
    >for customers who buy the mb and CPU from them. If you don't want that
    >service, don't get it. Just get the MB and the X2 CPU, boot up the system
    >and look at the black screen. That will make you very happy to know that all
    >your components are brand new, even if they don't work.


    So you would find it acceptible for a company to open it,
    set it up, flash the bios- all for a fee, but it is
    problematic if they open it to just read a sticker?

    That seems backwards to me.
     
    kony, Jul 4, 2005
    #19
  20. Skybuck Flying

    Mark A Guest

    "kony" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > So you would find it acceptible for a company to open it,
    > set it up, flash the bios- all for a fee, but it is
    > problematic if they open it to just read a sticker?
    >
    > That seems backwards to me.


    Monarch doesn't charge a fee if you purchase the MB and CPU from them.

    It's not a problem for me, but high volume retailers who ship from separate
    (and sometimes multiple) warehouses will not check the EPROM sticker for you
    (even if one exists).

    I doubt that the bios he needs for the X2 dual core is available on a stock
    motherboard yet, and will not be available for awhile.

    If someone has a old CPU they can use to boot the MB and flash the bios to
    support the X2, that is fine. Otherwise I would find a reputable retailer
    who will do it for you.
     
    Mark A, Jul 4, 2005
    #20
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