Noisy power supply fan in PC & gray wavy lines on CRT monitor

[techman41973]

My parents have a Gateway PC that is about 4 years old. The fan is
quite noisy and the monitor displays somewhat faint wavy gray lines
that can get annoying. I tried the monitor and cable with my laptop and
there were no wavy lines on the screen. So apparently the cause is on
the Gateway PC motherboard (mini case has no graphics card). I am
wondering if the bad fan could be causing electromagnetic interference
that could cause the way lines problem. The fan noise by itself doesnt
really warrant the replacement of the power supply (about $60).

 

[w_tom]

Stick a pencil into fan to stop it. Do lines go away?

New fan can be purchased from Allied Electronics, Newark
Electronics, Digikey, Mouser, or Jamesco - online. No need to
replace a whole power supply only because of an inferior and
replaceable fan. Even buy a failed Gateway (Newton?) power
supply to use that fan.

 

[GBH]

My parents have a Gateway PC that is about 4 years old. The fan is
quite noisy and the monitor displays somewhat faint wavy gray lines
that can get annoying. I tried the monitor and cable with my laptop and
there were no wavy lines on the screen. So apparently the cause is on
the Gateway PC motherboard (mini case has no graphics card). I am
wondering if the bad fan could be causing electromagnetic interference
that could cause the way lines problem. The fan noise by itself doesnt
really warrant the replacement of the power supply (about $60).

I would check the frequency settings on the display adapter and try
alternatives ... default is probably 60hz and the higher frequencies can
sometimes get rid of flicker.

Geoff

 

[kony]

My parents have a Gateway PC that is about 4 years old. The fan is
quite noisy and the monitor displays somewhat faint wavy gray lines
that can get annoying. I tried the monitor and cable with my laptop and
there were no wavy lines on the screen. So apparently the cause is on
the Gateway PC motherboard (mini case has no graphics card).

Just to confirm, you did try wiggling the video cable and
had also seen the lines after plugging into your laptop and
then replugging into the GW motherboard?

I am
wondering if the bad fan could be causing electromagnetic interference
that could cause the way lines problem.

I doubt it, but as W_Tom wrote, you can stick something in
there to find out, though I'd choose something softer and
completely non-conductive like a plastic drinking straw.
However, it may be quite a feat to access this fan, I have
one type of miniATX Gateway case that has the fan oriented
behind the PSU as it's mounted mid-case and points the fan
towards the CPU/heatsink, and it has relatively short cables
so it might be necessary to get a box about 12" tall to prop
the PSU up while it's twisted around (ever so gently) for
access to the fan.

The fan should be relatively standard, I don't recall if
Newton's et al on GW systems are direct wired to the PSU
circuit board but thought they used a 0.1" pin spaced dual
pin connector, similar to that found on a motherboard fan
header but only two pins. "IF" that is the situation, you
could probably manage to get a fan meant for a motherboard
header to work, whether it be with the last pin-position in
the socket hanging past the header on the PSU or taking a
shart knife and chopping off this extra position carefully.

Of course it's possible to find a fan that comes with
correct pin-socket connector, given enough time, but quicker
and easier to just cut the plug on one instead.

I suspect the fan is rather crucial in flow rate, be sure
you get a replacement with same or very similar specs... the
label on the original should provide a good clue, probably a
dual ball bearing 80 x 25mm at about 3000 RPM.

The fan noise by itself doesnt
really warrant the replacement of the power supply (about $60).

True, so long as it's replaced before the RPM drastically
drops or complete failure (causing the PSU to bake itself) a
fan replacement should be a reasonable fix, though you can
get replacement PSU that should fit... if it mounts on the
short side, probably a mATX-S. If it mounts on long-side,
mATX-L. http://www.newegg.com and other various places
should have something for about $25, and newegg in
particular has some pretty good pictures so you can confirm
the features on the mounting-face of the psu to be sure it's
what you need.

If you were to get a replacement just be sure it's of the
right type, as earlier ATX 1.x designs were optimized for
mostly 5V amps and later moved to 12V amp bias. The specs
on the original PSU would be a strong clue or consider the
specifics of the system- if it uses a 4-pin plug for the
motherboard you'd want a psu with at least 9A 12V power,
really more than that but 9A should be a sufficient
break-piont to differentiate between an older design
incapable for that in mATX size, and a newer that was. At
the 4 year old mark the system could take either type.

Choose name-brand, like Antec or Sparkle, as the generics
likely have even worse fans than the one you've had fail.

 

[Ben Myers]

Agreed. $60 for a replacement power supply is excessive.

Fan noise is a sign of potential failure, due to dust and dirt that have gotten
into the rotating parts. A blast of compressed air may dislodge the dust and
dirt, and make the fan quieter and more reliable.

Honestly, it is just not worth all the effort to replace a fan inside a power
supply, despite what other postings claim.

If you cannot fix the fan noise problem easily, and you can provide the
dimensions of the power supply (and the pattern of the screw hole mountings), I
may have a suitable and inexpensive replacement.

As for the monitor, if the system was set up initially with a 60Hz refresh rate,
this ought to be changed in the Display properties of Control Panel. Unless the
monitor is very old, it should operate at 70Hz minimum, a refresh rate much more
pleasant to view. If a different refresh rate does not fix the problem, look
for other nearby sources of electrical interference. I once had a client whose
monitor began to malfunction whenever a nearby air conditioner kicked in. The
fan motor is a highly unlikely cause of interference with the monitor.

.... Ben Myers

 

[Conor]

My parents have a Gateway PC that is about 4 years old. The fan is
quite noisy and the monitor displays somewhat faint wavy gray lines
that can get annoying. I tried the monitor and cable with my laptop and
there were no wavy lines on the screen. So apparently the cause is on
the Gateway PC motherboard (mini case has no graphics card). I am
wondering if the bad fan could be causing electromagnetic interference
that could cause the way lines problem. The fan noise by itself doesnt
really warrant the replacement of the power supply (about $60).

It is most likely the fan causing the problem. If you're happy opening
up the PSU, replacing the fan is a fairly easy thing to do and they
only cost a few $$.

 

[Tweek]

The wavy lines you describe is a common failure with the Brookings
motherboard in Gateway flex systems. Is your machine one of those tiny, USB
only flex atx systems? When I was at Gateway I replaced those boards for
that issue, bad modems (integrated), broken USB ports and bad capacitors all
the time. You can get a replacement pretty cheap from these guys:

http://www.pcpartsohio.com/GatewayCategoryListing.aspx?categoryID=2#subcategory5

Just be aware that there are two versions of this board, one with a parallel
port and one without. As for the power supply, it isn't too hard to replace
the fan in them but the machine will take any standard micro-atx power
supply. They are about $25 shipped from newegg.com

 

[w_tom]

If dust has caused a fan problem, then the fan is probably
defective. Damaged either by excessive bearing wear - or just
as likely - the hall effect sensor was not properly aligned.
Latter results in too little torque meaning that even dust can
cause problems. Too many want to cure symptoms rather than
fix the problem. They foolishly blame dust when that dust
only creates a symptom of the problem.

Replacing a power supply fan - trivial and easy.

BTW those who don't spend $60 retail for a new power supply
are the same bean counter types who don't know of essential
functions inside a power supply. Manufacturers have
discovered a ripe and more profitable market selling inferior
power supplies at $40 and less to computer assemblers who
don't even know how electricity works. A supply not selling
for at least $60 full retail is being marketed to the naive -
dumped into that market at greater profits. Such inferior
supplies can even cause other computer component failure. It
was even standard 30 years ago - the power supply must not
cause other component damage. But those 'dumped into the
market' supplies market to bean counter types who never first
learned underlying technology.

Same applies to the fan. Dust should not cause failure of a
properly working fan. Cleaning the fan would not solve the
problem - only cure the symptom.

 

[JAD]

If dust has caused a fan problem, then the fan is probably
defective. Damaged either by excessive bearing wear - or just
as likely - the hall effect sensor was not properly aligned.
Latter results in too little torque meaning that even dust can
cause problems. Too many want to cure symptoms rather than
fix the problem. They foolishly blame dust when that dust
only creates a symptom of the problem.

Replacing a power supply fan - trivial and easy.

For you maybe, consider just who may be reading this. And the dangers of
sticking your hand in a PSU.

BTW those who don't spend $60 retail for a new power supply
are the same bean counter types who don't know of essential
functions inside a power supply. Manufacturers have
discovered a ripe and more profitable market selling inferior

Utter bullshite, its a crap shoot, i have just as many 80$ fortans/ antec in
the bin as ...codegens

power supplies at $40 and less to computer assemblers who
don't even know how electricity works. A supply not selling
for at least $60 full retail is being marketed to the naive -
dumped into that market at greater profits. Such inferior
supplies can even cause other computer component failure. It
was even standard 30 years ago - the power supply must not
cause other component damage. But those 'dumped into the
market' supplies market to bean counter types who never first
learned underlying technology.

As usual you are making huge assumptions here, you are NOT the only one who
has electrical background. Making the 'price' the denominator in this
decision is goofy.

Same applies to the fan. Dust should not cause failure of a
properly working fan. Cleaning the fan would not solve the
problem - only cure the symptom.

should not? Dust throws the balance of the fan off, then if its a bearing
fan, the bearings make noise, then at some point they(metal ballbearings)
rip up the 'plastic' race.

Cause and effect.

 

[kony]

For you maybe, consider just who may be reading this. And the dangers of
sticking your hand in a PSU.

What danger?
Unplug it first, it will be drained by the time the cover is
unscrewed. Remaining danger is one of implementation,
making sure wires are secured, not just twisted together
and/or rubbing against the HV section components. Is easily
enough done by observing the example set by manufacturer
when original fan was installed, but like anything else if
someone were to do it poorly it could be a problem, as is
poor driving, poor lawn mowing, poor shoe-tying... all
introduce risks if done improperly.

Utter bullshite, its a crap shoot, i have just as many 80$ fortans/ antec in
the bin as ...codegens

Not at all. While occasionally a better PSU will fail, it's
far more likely due to the lower-margin components in the
crap psu. However, if the antec or fortron is underspec'd
for the system or treated abusively (like a user who just
"decides" they want lower noise so they replace orig fan
with a Panaflo @ 5V, then they're subject to same fate.

As usual you are making huge assumptions here, you are NOT the only one who
has electrical background. Making the 'price' the denominator in this
decision is goofy.

Prices are sometimes arbitrary based on location, source,
label on the unit, but in this case there is some truth to
it. Ever seen a Foxconn/Allied mATX? Certainly not as good
as a Antec or Fortron mATX. Perhaps if the original PSU had
been a few dollars more expensive it would have had a better
grade fan and thus the entire thread never existed.

should not? Dust throws the balance of the fan off,

or it could randomly make it slightly better balanced... but
in general, given a uniform fan blade assembly rotating, it
can be expected to fairly evently coat and not imbalance it
to any significant extent.

then if its a bearing
fan, the bearings make noise, then at some point they(metal ballbearings)
rip up the 'plastic' race.

Bearings do not usually fail from ripping up a plastic race,
rather the metal is imperfect and they begin rotating less
and less until they just stop and slide around instead,
further deforming at an ever-increasing rate.

Cause and effect.

Cause is usually a poor, low quality bearing, resolved by
replacing fan with one similar to found in good power
supplies, or use of the good PSU in the first place.

 

[Ben Myers]

Yes, blowing out the dust from a fan fixes the symptom, and not the problem.
But it improves the life expectancy of the fan a bit, until a replacement can be
installed.

As for power supplies, decent quality name brand power supplies can be had
surplus for $25-$30. You have to know EXACTLY what you are looking for and buy
from a reputable supplier.

Unfortunately, the power supplies in many new name brand systems were designed
by the bean counters... Ben Myers

 

[kony]

Yes, blowing out the dust from a fan fixes the symptom, and not the problem.
But it improves the life expectancy of the fan a bit, until a replacement can be
installed.

As for power supplies, decent quality name brand power supplies can be had
surplus for $25-$30. You have to know EXACTLY what you are looking for and buy
from a reputable supplier.

You're thinking regular ATX... this being a mATX, it's quite
easy to find a typical name-brand unit for $30 or less, not
as surplus but regular stock at many online retailers.