Looking to buy a laptop....are Thinkpads still the "best"?

[Jill Jenson]

I'm posting this question here as I understand there are quite a few
regulars who are "in the know" WRT computers in general and laptops in
general.

I am thinking of buying a laptop computer as I am self-employed and have
constant need to have my business at my fingertips while in the field. I
need something rugged and reliable, with the requirement to just run the
OS (probably Winblows) and a few programs, one of them a Winemakers
Database. I have no requirements for games as such, but it would be nice
for the machine to double as a DVD player while on long flights.

Are the Thinkpads still the "best" in terms of quality and reliability? I
understand they are no longer made or owned by IBM, but now by Lenovo. To
me cost if of secondary importance to ruggedness and quality, although my
budget is by no means unlimited. So what are your opinions? Thanks in
advance to all.

Jill

 

[Keith]

I'm posting this question here as I understand there are quite a few
regulars who are "in the know" WRT computers in general and laptops in
general.

I am thinking of buying a laptop computer as I am self-employed and have
constant need to have my business at my fingertips while in the field. I
need something rugged and reliable, with the requirement to just run the
OS (probably Winblows) and a few programs, one of them a Winemakers
Database. I have no requirements for games as such, but it would be nice
for the machine to double as a DVD player while on long flights.

Are the Thinkpads still the "best" in terms of quality and reliability? I
understand they are no longer made or owned by IBM, but now by Lenovo. To
me cost if of secondary importance to ruggedness and quality, although my
budget is by no means unlimited. So what are your opinions? Thanks in
advance to all.

They're still the gold standard of laptops, as far as I'm
concerned. I have a T42p at work and bought a T60 (2629D6U) for
personal use a couple of weeks ago. ThinkPads haven't lost
anything since IBM sold the franchise and I'm optimistic that
they'll get even better (more wide screen models, better displays,
maybe even an AMD processor without the legacy of an 800lb.
gorilla.

 

[George Macdonald]

I'm posting this question here as I understand there are quite a few
regulars who are "in the know" WRT computers in general and laptops in
general.

I am thinking of buying a laptop computer as I am self-employed and have
constant need to have my business at my fingertips while in the field. I
need something rugged and reliable, with the requirement to just run the
OS (probably Winblows) and a few programs, one of them a Winemakers
Database. I have no requirements for games as such, but it would be nice
for the machine to double as a DVD player while on long flights.

Are the Thinkpads still the "best" in terms of quality and reliability? I
understand they are no longer made or owned by IBM, but now by Lenovo. To
me cost if of secondary importance to ruggedness and quality, although my
budget is by no means unlimited. So what are your opinions? Thanks in
advance to all.

I'm with Keith here - they're still "quality" on case, keyboard, pointing
device, general feel and there's a surprisingly wide range of price points
even within a single line like the T4x series, which is the best choice
IMO. Choose the one for you based on screen size/technology (not sure if
the IPS screen is still an option) and the usual memory/HDD size and video
chip. For memory I've had good luck with upgrades from Crucial... unless
Lenovo has a current deal on the larger memory models. That's one annoying
thing about all laptops - seemingly inexpensive feature differences, e.g.
DVD-/+RW vs. DVD-CD/RW are inordinately expensive. Take a browse in the
Forum at http://thinkpads.com/start.htm to get more info and user
experiences.

They're "rugged enough" for general use and travel (stow them upside down
in the overhead... because Bozo *is* sitting near you ); if you want
really rugged there's the Panasonic Toughbooks. I also see that Lenovo is
re-entering the retail market (Best Buy ?) with Thinkpads so you can get a
look and umm, actually touch before buying again. Oh, and also look for
deals on a port replicator... like:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16834998902

 

[Keith]

I'm with Keith here - they're still "quality" on case, keyboard, pointing
device, general feel and there's a surprisingly wide range of price points
even within a single line like the T4x series, which is the best choice
IMO.

I compared the T43 and T60 series and the T60 beat the T43 hands down. A
hundred bucks (or more) cheaper, better displays, and better processor
(Core Duo).

Choose the one for you based on screen size/technology (not sure if
the IPS screen is still an option) and the usual memory/HDD size and
video chip. For memory I've had good luck with upgrades from Crucial...
unless Lenovo has a current deal on the larger memory models.

Good point, though with my recent experience with Crucial, I'd even pay
somewhat more for Crucial.

That's one annoying thing about all laptops - seemingly inexpensive feature
differences, e.g. DVD-/+RW vs. DVD-CD/RW are inordinately expensive.

....and the website doen't do a great job of explaining exactly what these
features are. :-(

Take a browse in the Forum at http://thinkpads.com/start.htm to get more
info and user experiences. They're "rugged enough" for general use and
travel (stow them upside down in the overhead... because Bozo *is*
sitting near you ); if you want really rugged there's the Panasonic
Toughbooks. I also see that Lenovo is re-entering the retail market
(Best Buy ?) with Thinkpads so you can get a look and umm, actually
touch before buying again.

Oohh, what a concept! "Touch!"

Oh, and also look for deals on a port replicator... like:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16834998902

I bought a docking station for the T60. It's nice, but I would have
thought it would have a line-in port. ...and the specs are non-existent. :-(
....looking for a graphics card for it, but not really sure of the size
restrictions.

 

[nobody]

I'm with Keith here - they're still "quality" on case, keyboard, pointing
device, general feel and there's a surprisingly wide range of price points
even within a single line like the T4x series, which is the best choice
IMO. Choose the one for you based on screen size/technology (not sure if
the IPS screen is still an option) and the usual memory/HDD size and video
chip. For memory I've had good luck with upgrades from Crucial... unless
Lenovo has a current deal on the larger memory models. That's one annoying
thing about all laptops - seemingly inexpensive feature differences, e.g.
DVD-/+RW vs. DVD-CD/RW are inordinately expensive. Take a browse in the
Forum at http://thinkpads.com/start.htm to get more info and user
experiences.

They're "rugged enough" for general use and travel (stow them upside down
in the overhead... because Bozo *is* sitting near you ); if you want
really rugged there's the Panasonic Toughbooks. I also see that Lenovo is
re-entering the retail market (Best Buy ?) with Thinkpads so you can get a
look and umm, actually touch before buying again. Oh, and also look for
deals on a port replicator... like:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16834998902

Agree. Also should add that the current models probably were
developed when it was still IBM or shortly after the Chinese took
over, but still by the same folks sticking (at least for the time
being) to the same golden standards. What will happen in a few years?
Only time will tell. But if you buy now, go for the Thinkpad.

NNN

 

[YKhan]

Sure, why not? I got a T42 at work, and it's just fine. However,
recently I just bought myself a Gateway MX6440, and it feels just as
fine. I've never found any particular laptop to be bad or good, they
were all fine. I wouldn't pay a premium for it, just to get a Thinkpad
name.

I think Lenovo is listening to that, because Lenovo is planning to
introduce more economical laptops soon.

Yousuf Khan

 

[George Macdonald]

Agree. Also should add that the current models probably were
developed when it was still IBM or shortly after the Chinese took
over, but still by the same folks sticking (at least for the time
being) to the same golden standards. What will happen in a few years?
Only time will tell. But if you buy now, go for the Thinkpad.

They've been manufactured in China for several years now - dunno what
happened to the Mexico plant but would that even be better anyway?... maybe
ask VW owners? There's also a (assembly ?) facility in Singapore AFAIK.
(Most of ?) the "design" is still done out of the same shop in N. Carolina
as when it was IBM so I figure we've got a few years before any potential
rot sets in. AIUI they have 5 years before they have to give up the IBM
logo style and Thinkpad branding.

 

[chrisv]

should add that the current models probably were
developed when it was still IBM or shortly after the Chinese took
over, but still by the same folks sticking (at least for the time
being) to the same golden standards. What will happen in a few years?
Only time will tell.

I would think that they would try to retain the high-end niche that
they are in. Why pay IBM all that money only to slug it out in the
middle of the market?

 

[nobody]

Sure, why not? I got a T42 at work, and it's just fine. However,
recently I just bought myself a Gateway MX6440, and it feels just as
fine. I've never found any particular laptop to be bad or good, they
were all fine. I wouldn't pay a premium for it, just to get a Thinkpad
name.

Dell suxxxx big time. Last year had to deal with Latitude D(whatever
number) - did not compare to IBM, except for maybe on-paper specs.
The only thing that worked well was the Centrino wireless

NNN

 

[The little lost angel]

Sure, why not? I got a T42 at work, and it's just fine. However,
recently I just bought myself a Gateway MX6440, and it feels just as
fine. I've never found any particular laptop to be bad or good, they
were all fine. I wouldn't pay a premium for it, just to get a Thinkpad
name.

You need a more sensitive touch PP I wouldn't use some brands even
if they gave it to me free. I'll take it though, so that I can sell it
off to pay part of a new Thinkpad pPp

 

[Murray Symon]

I'm with Keith here - they're still "quality" on case, keyboard, pointing
device, general feel and there's a surprisingly wide range of price points
even within a single line like the T4x series, which is the best choice
IMO. Choose the one for you based on screen size/technology (not sure if
the IPS screen is still an option) and the usual memory/HDD size and video
chip. For memory I've had good luck with upgrades from Crucial... unless
Lenovo has a current deal on the larger memory models. That's one
annoying thing about all laptops - seemingly inexpensive feature
differences, e.g. DVD-/+RW vs. DVD-CD/RW are inordinately expensive. Take
a browse in the Forum at http://thinkpads.com/start.htm to get more info
and user experiences.

[snip]

Do the T-series ThinkPads have a glossy or matt screen surface?
Many people have expressed dissatisfaction with the new Apple MacBook
switching to a glossy screen.
Currently I can only evaluate the new ThinkPads on their website.

thanks,
Murray.

 

[Keith]

I would think that they would try to retain the high-end niche that
they are in. Why pay IBM all that money only to slug it out in the
middle of the market?

Exactly my thoughts. ...and why keep the IBM logo if you're going
to crawl in the mud. BTW, Lenovo does sell a cheaper line (3000 series)
that doesn't carry the ThinkPad or IBM logo.

 

[Keith]

I'm with Keith here - they're still "quality" on case, keyboard, pointing
device, general feel and there's a surprisingly wide range of price points
even within a single line like the T4x series, which is the best choice
IMO. Choose the one for you based on screen size/technology (not sure if
the IPS screen is still an option) and the usual memory/HDD size and video
chip. For memory I've had good luck with upgrades from Crucial... unless
Lenovo has a current deal on the larger memory models. That's one
annoying thing about all laptops - seemingly inexpensive feature
differences, e.g. DVD-/+RW vs. DVD-CD/RW are inordinately expensive. Take
a browse in the Forum at http://thinkpads.com/start.htm to get more info
and user experiences.

[snip]

Do the T-series ThinkPads have a glossy or matt screen surface?

Looks like a matte surface to me.

Many people have expressed dissatisfaction with the new Apple MacBook
switching to a glossy screen.

I don't think I'd like that either.

Currently I can only evaluate the new ThinkPads on their website.

Yes, that's a problem. I was considering a Z60, but I've never seen one
so I stuck with the 'T' (the Core Duo, metal cover, and 1" thickness
mattered too).

 

[George Macdonald]

I'm with Keith here - they're still "quality" on case, keyboard, pointing
device, general feel and there's a surprisingly wide range of price points
even within a single line like the T4x series, which is the best choice
IMO. Choose the one for you based on screen size/technology (not sure if
the IPS screen is still an option) and the usual memory/HDD size and video
chip. For memory I've had good luck with upgrades from Crucial... unless
Lenovo has a current deal on the larger memory models. That's one
annoying thing about all laptops - seemingly inexpensive feature
differences, e.g. DVD-/+RW vs. DVD-CD/RW are inordinately expensive. Take
a browse in the Forum at http://thinkpads.com/start.htm to get more info
and user experiences.

[snip]

Do the T-series ThinkPads have a glossy or matt screen surface?
Many people have expressed dissatisfaction with the new Apple MacBook
switching to a glossy screen.
Currently I can only evaluate the new ThinkPads on their website.

All the T4xs that I've seen have a normal soft, matte LCD screen - last new
T42 I saw was 6 months or so ago. We don't buy that often. The glossy
screen was started by NEC in their monitors I believe, followed by Sony and
a few others now. It was said to improve the image as well as offer a hard
protective surface but the glare is awful.

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Dell suxxxx big time. Last year had to deal with Latitude D(whatever
number) - did not compare to IBM, except for maybe on-paper specs.
The only thing that worked well was the Centrino wireless

I've also had Dell's in the past. What specifically were you having
problems with? I never had any major issues with any laptop I owned,
except performance (often not enough RAM for the operating system, so
lots of paging).

Yousuf Khan

 

[Yousuf Khan]

You need a more sensitive touch PP I wouldn't use some brands even
if they gave it to me free. I'll take it though, so that I can sell it
off to pay part of a new Thinkpad pPp

Really, I've had no major problems with any laptop I've ever used. At
least until they start getting long-in-the-tooth.

Yousuf Khan

 

[George Macdonald]

I've also had Dell's in the past. What specifically were you having
problems with? I never had any major issues with any laptop I owned,
except performance (often not enough RAM for the operating system, so
lots of paging).

I can tell you about a Dell someone from one of our other offices brought
to our office: 1) every time he powered it down it hung our (D-Link D-908)
network hub - also saw this with Linksys NICs in desktop systems; 2)
drifting cursor - extremely embarrassing when he was trying to demo
software with a projector. Dell had it back twice and was never able, or
inclined(?), to fix it. That office switched to Thinkpads after that.

Other makes: I used to think Winbooks were a "good buy" until I realised
that after a couple of trips, the case went all flexy and then things
started to go flakey with hangs, reboots & bad parallel/serial ports. Then
one came back from a trip with a broken sreen - can happen to all of them
with enough force and the right Bozo sharing the overhead (which is why I
advise stowing them upside down) but those didn't take that much force: you
could "touch" the back of the LCD by pressing down on the top with one
finger.

 

[nobody]

I've also had Dell's in the past. What specifically were you having
problems with? I never had any major issues with any laptop I owned,
except performance (often not enough RAM for the operating system, so
lots of paging).

Yousuf Khan

Please don't get me started on that one. It was my luck - or lack
thereof - that I was issued a laptop only a few weeks after the
company switched the vendor from IBM to Dull. I had a chance to
compare my Latitude side by side with Thinkpads T of lucky guys who
got it a few weeks earlier, and IBM was ahead on everything across the
board, the difference ranging from a bit to quite a few bits. The
screen had the same res and size, but IBM was sharper and just more
pleasant to look at. The weight of the Dull was a bit more, the
battery lasted a bit less, the system seemed quite a bit less
responsive (IBM had the CPU 1 speed grade down, same size RAM). The
port replicator - it was quite an exercise to get Dull docked, and IBM
was a snap. The overall build seemed flimsy next to IBM, and that
silvery-grayish plasticky cheap finish just didn't compare to the
classy matte black of the T. Same to the bag - both made of canvas,
but Dull looked cheap, and IBM somehow didn't. I just have no desire
to get into more details. Maybe that laptop was not that bad as such,
but I was p!$$ed off that the paperwork for mine got stuck and I ended
up with Dull instead of the Thinkpad I expected.

NNN

 

[krw]

Really, I've had no major problems with any laptop I've ever used. At
least until they start getting long-in-the-tooth.

Frankly, that's like saying that "My Pinto never exploded, so it's
a great car". ;-)

 

[YKhan]

Other makes: I used to think Winbooks were a "good buy" until I realised
that after a couple of trips, the case went all flexy and then things
started to go flakey with hangs, reboots & bad parallel/serial ports. Then
one came back from a trip with a broken sreen - can happen to all of them
with enough force and the right Bozo sharing the overhead (which is why I
advise stowing them upside down) but those didn't take that much force: you
could "touch" the back of the LCD by pressing down on the top with one
finger.

I've seen the same "touch the back of the lcd screens" problem on
Thinkpads. In fact, it was the first time I've ever seen the problem
was on a Thinkpad (my old T21), never seen it before on anything else.
It's also there slightly on my newer T42 Thinkpad, though much less
than on the T21.

Yousuf Khan