Leave your PC running 24/7? Leave your DSL modem always on?

Discussion in 'DIY PC' started by RayLopez99, Jul 10, 2012.

  1. RayLopez99

    RayLopez99 Guest

    The topic of conversation is do you leave your PC running all day and night? Assume it's not part of a server farm. I say no: wastes energy, and thetribology benefits are small. On the other hand, I often do leave my DSL modem on all day and night, since I'm too lazy to turn it off. As it has no moving parts I think that's safe to do, and it does not seem to overheat (though it stays hot, and does not have a "smart power setting".

    RL
     
    RayLopez99, Jul 10, 2012
    #1
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  2. RayLopez99

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    On 10/07/2012 12:20 PM, RayLopez99 wrote:
    > The topic of conversation is do you leave your PC running all day and night? Assume it's not part of a server farm. I say no: wastes energy, and the tribology benefits are small. On the other hand, I often do leave my DSL modem on all day and night, since I'm too lazy to turn it off. As it has no moving parts I think that's safe to do, and it does not seem to overheat (though it stays hot, and does not have a "smart power setting".
    >
    > RL


    I always turn my PC off, as long as it's not being used to do something
    overnight. I leave the router and cable/dsl modem running all of the time.

    I wouldn't say that it doesn't overheat, because it does benefit from an
    occasional restart from time to time.

    Yousuf Khan
     
    Yousuf Khan, Jul 10, 2012
    #2
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  3. RayLopez99

    Paul Guest

    RayLopez99 wrote:
    > The topic of conversation is do you leave your PC running all day and night?
    > Assume it's not part of a server farm. I say no: wastes energy, and the
    > tribology benefits are small. On the other hand, I often do leave my DSL modem
    > on all day and night, since I'm too lazy to turn it off. As it has no moving
    > parts I think that's safe to do, and it does not seem to overheat (though it
    > stays hot, and does not have a "smart power setting".
    >
    > RL


    For the PC I switch it off.

    Same for ADSL modem/router/switch. In fact, they're all
    tied into one power strip, so they can be killed all at
    the same time.

    Of my little networking boxes, the modem/router and the router, have
    no power management. The switch box, is able to power down Ethernet
    ports which are not in usage. Which defeats WOL if you're using it.

    I keep a fan blowing on the ADSL modem housing, and a second fan
    blowing over the "wall of power adapters". The room gets pretty
    warm around 5PM.

    My original ADSL modem, was low power enough, it could be
    ignored. It had a sheet metal enclosure (no plastic) and
    ran cool to the touch at all times. The current ADSL modem
    is probably in the 10 watt range. And the housing is plastic
    on the current ADSL modem. Not really the best trend in
    terms of improvements.

    I upgrade equipment often enough, it's just as well to save
    the electricity by switching them off. I doubt it affects the
    lifespan enough, to kill them before upgrade time rolls
    around again.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jul 10, 2012
    #3
  4. Re: Leave your PC running 24/7? Leave your DSL modem always on?

    RayLopez99 wrote:
    >
    > The topic of conversation is do you leave your PC running all day and night? Assume it's not part of a server farm. I say no: wastes energy, and the tribology benefits are small. On the other hand, I often do leave my DSL modem on all day and night, since I'm too lazy to turn it off. As it hasno moving parts I think that's safe to do, and it does not seem to overheat (though it stays hot, and does not have a "smart power setting".


    Lack of moving parts doesn't necessarily mean something is more
    reliable, especially because of electrolytic capacitors, which vary
    greatly in longevity, depending on the quality. For example, my
    digital TV converter boxes failed in just 2 years when several of
    their Chinese capacitors went bad. In comparison, the old TV one of
    them is connected to has needed only 2 new capacitors -- in its 35+
    years of life (all Japanese capacitors). DSL modems are similar to
    TV converters in that they both contain switching mode voltage
    regulators, which can be rough on capacitors, and my DSL modems were
    made with cheapo brand capacitors. So maybe it would be a good idea
    to disconnect the AC power if it's not used much, and I mean turn off
    the power strip/surge protector so the modem's standby power circuitry
    doesn't stay on. OTOH a lot of times the standby power fails when
    it's turned on, including in computer power supplies.
     
    larry moe 'n curly, Jul 11, 2012
    #4
  5. RayLopez99

    Flasherly Guest

    Re: Leave your PC running 24/7? Leave your DSL modem always on?

    On Jul 10, 12:20 pm, RayLopez99 <> wrote:
    > The topic of conversation is do you leave your PC running all day and night? Assume it's not part of a server farm. I say no: wastes energy, and the tribology benefits are small. On the other hand, I often do leave my DSL modem on all day and night, since I'm too lazy to turn it off. As it hasno moving parts I think that's safe to do, and it does not seem to overheat (though it stays hot, and does not have a "smart power setting".
    >
    > RL


    I've got power strips hooked up to an assignable IR-keyed PWR-ON
    cubes;- the cubes also remember their last logical PWR state, IOW,
    turn it off and if there's a brown/black out it stays OFF. You can't
    find them unless up to direct marketing out of Asia. It's
    conceptually a computer I've rigged to turn on as if a television and
    its dedicated remote;- simple BIOS switch, PWR-ON computer when power
    present to PS unit, and that's all it takes. I also assign them to a
    television remote keypad for buttons seldom used. Got the idea when
    the logic on my television did actually screw up, and wouldn't come
    out of STBY mode when a signal is presented;- now takes it within a
    PWR OFF state, and a signal present, to bring it functionally up at
    PWR ON. Worked out so well with the Hong Kong cube, I went back
    bought some more and set a computer up for one. Could as easily have
    been the Logitec remote IR keyboard, though, couple of key presses
    from on my ass on a leather couch to turn on/off, flat panel
    television, computer, and three or so various 115V audio processing
    units.

    Sure, I can leave it on and go to sleep to it if I want. Not a
    problem.
     
    Flasherly, Jul 11, 2012
    #5
  6. RayLopez99

    KR Guest

    On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:20:09 AM UTC+10, RayLopez99 wrote:
    > The topic of conversation is do you leave your PC running all day and night? Assume it's not part of a server farm. I say no: wastes energy, and the tribology benefits are small. On the other hand, I often do leave my DSL modem on all day and night, since I'm too lazy to turn it off. As it has no moving parts I think that's safe to do, and it does not seem to overheat (though it stays hot, and does not have a &quot;smart power setting&quot;.
    >
    > RL


    I leave the ADSL on, and have it on a UPS, as that way you can use the VOIPphone at any time, even in a blackout. Computer is on if it is doing something, other wise off.
     
    KR, Jul 11, 2012
    #6
  7. Since I don't have any VPN or VOIP stuff, I always turn off all
    computers and peripherals if I need leave home for a whole day. For
    short trips (e.g. shopping), I would keep them running.

    --
    @~@ Remain silent. Nothing from soldiers and magicians is real!
    / v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
    /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
    ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
    ä¸å€Ÿè²¸! ä¸è©é¨™! ä¸æ´äº¤! ä¸æ‰“交! ä¸æ‰“劫! ä¸è‡ªæ®º! è«‹è€ƒæ…®ç¶œæ´ (CSSA):
    http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa
     
    Man-wai Chang, Jul 11, 2012
    #7
  8. RayLopez99

    RayLopez99 Guest

    Re: Leave your PC running 24/7? Leave your DSL modem always on?

    On Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:36:42 PM UTC-4, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
    > OTOH a lot of times the standby power fails when
    > it's turned on, including in computer power supplies.


    So if I read correctly, the most likely time for a component to fail is when the power strip is turned on? Is that right? Assume the power strip does not have APS (battery) but is just a cheap Joule surge capacitor whateverthey use in cheap $12 power strips.

    If that's what you are saying, since there is a small temporary power spikewhenever you turn on a switch (I think), please let me know as that would argue for not turning on and off the modem power supply, even though it does have a cheap SWITCHING AC TO DC POWER SUPPLY which I think for power spike / power surge purposes is inferior to an old, heavy, oil filled traditional wired up old-fashioned transformer.

    RL
     
    RayLopez99, Jul 12, 2012
    #8
  9. RayLopez99

    RayLopez99 Guest

    Re: Leave your PC running 24/7? Leave your DSL modem always on?

    On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 8:56:10 AM UTC-4, Flasherly wrote:

    > turn it off and if there's a brown/black out it stays OFF. You can't
    > find them unless up to direct marketing out of Asia. I


    LOL good one Flasherly. I somehow figured either you or Paul would have the most complicated (but failsafe) system set up...

    RL
     
    RayLopez99, Jul 12, 2012
    #9
  10. RayLopez99

    Paul Guest

    Re: Leave your PC running 24/7? Leave your DSL modem always on?

    RayLopez99 wrote:
    > On Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:36:42 PM UTC-4, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
    >> OTOH a lot of times the standby power fails when
    >> it's turned on, including in computer power supplies.

    >
    > So if I read correctly, the most likely time for a component to fail
    > is when the power strip is turned on? Is that right? Assume the power
    > strip does not have APS (battery) but is just a cheap Joule surge capacitor
    > whatever they use in cheap $12 power strips.
    >
    > If that's what you are saying, since there is a small temporary power
    > spike whenever you turn on a switch (I think), please let me know as that
    > would argue for not turning on and off the modem power supply, even though
    > it does have a cheap SWITCHING AC TO DC POWER SUPPLY which I think for
    > power spike / power surge purposes is inferior to an old, heavy, oil filled
    > traditional wired up old-fashioned transformer.
    >
    > RL


    Let's not get carried away.

    Notice that stuff works most of the time ?

    How many times have I turned the power on and off here ?

    A lot. Several times a day. And I've been sitting in this
    chair, way too long.

    Has anything blown ?

    No.

    Have a look through a power supply, and marvel at all the stuff in there.
    I bet there's something in there to tame various kinds of transients.
    For example, NTCR1 on the upper left, controls current inrush, and
    prevents the rectifiers from blowing out. And there are filter components
    in there too.

    http://www.pavouk.org/hw/en_atxps.html

    And while the ATX supply, can have components like NTCR1, your
    typical "oil-filled-transformer-based" kinda supply, has nothing.
    Those tend to rely on the single cycle current rating of the
    bridge rectifier. Which is a hell of a lot scarier, in terms
    of trust.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jul 12, 2012
    #10
  11. RayLopez99

    Flasherly Guest

    Re: Leave your PC running 24/7? Leave your DSL modem always on?

    On Jul 11, 10:47 pm, RayLopez99 <> wrote:
    >
    > LOL good one Flasherly. I somehow figured either you or Paul would have the most complicated (but failsafe) system set up...
    >
    > RL


    http://www.dealextreme.com/p/universal-ir-remote-controlled-ac-outlet-for-appliances-110v-13147

    The front is useless unless you live in Europe for whatever socket
    fits into that mess;- iow- one side-panel receptacle for provisionally
    a normal 2-pronged cord. Figure on some soldering and a basic think-
    through. Also have to dig out the Chinglish translation for
    operation: That's somewhere in the user reviewed comments, last I
    looked, and would make it nothing short of useless, apparent or
    programmable without it. Inside it's what you pay for: one of them,
    the backside male socket blades, its contacts electrically were loose
    inside, so I simply soldered them better. Worth it, though, for
    running a computer in entirety from across a room via IR only. Tits,
    actually - 4/5 stars across for me, too.
     
    Flasherly, Jul 12, 2012
    #11
  12. RayLopez99

    RayLopez99 Guest

    On Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:53:10 PM UTC-4, edfair wrote:
    > Computers and monitors are powered down if they are not to be used for 4
    > hours or more. Sometimes shut down for even less than that.
    >
    > DSL, router, and switch are 24/7 on their own UPS since there are
    > machines on other floors that might need access.


    Don't the DSL, router, and switch overheat? Do you find that they need to be replaced after 3 or 4 years, from being "ON" all day and night? The capacitors 'wear out', see this thread.

    Seems the DSL is the weakest link, ironically since they are your conduit to the outside world.

    RL
     
    RayLopez99, Jul 13, 2012
    #12
  13. RayLopez99

    Flasherly Guest

    Re: Leave your PC running 24/7? Leave your DSL modem always on?

    On Jul 13, 2:36 pm, RayLopez99 <> wrote:
    > On Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:53:10 PM UTC-4, edfair wrote:
    > > Computers and monitors are powered down if they are not to be used for 4
    > > hours or more. Sometimes shut down for even less than that.

    >
    > > DSL, router, and switch are 24/7 on their own UPS since there are
    > > machines on other floors that might need access.

    >
    > Don't the DSL, router, and switch overheat? Do you find that they need to be replaced after 3 or 4 years, from being "ON" all day and night? The capacitors 'wear out', see this thread.
    >
    > Seems the DSL is the weakest link, ironically since they are your conduit to the outside world.
    >
    > RL


    True, especially with the crap CableCo's bundle under rental
    proprietary modems. Pull fingernails out to figure their protocols,
    though, research modems, and there are alternatives. I came up with
    ActionTec, two for the price of many modems, mainland Chinese, green
    construction, *much more* resilient to spikes even if lacking a surge
    strip or a better UPS. But, the whole thing is pretty much FUBAR, the
    way the weasels are worming themselves out from under any regulatory
    stance and running up their pricing for packaged deals. Have and have-
    nots: Pay their bullshit $200 package deal or fill out a government
    form for qualifying yourself as a low income indigent. Now I'm stuck
    with two really great modems and not so much as clue when they'll pull
    a switch to lower the next big payment boom. ...Bye, bye Internet.
     
    Flasherly, Jul 13, 2012
    #13
  14. RayLopez99

    Guest

    Re: Leave your PC running 24/7? Leave your DSL modem always on?

    On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:46:18 PM UTC-7, RayLopez99 wrote:
    > On Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:36:42 PM UTC-4, larry moe &amp;#39;n curly wrote:
    >
    > > DSL modems are similar to
    > > TV converters in that they both contain switching mode voltage
    > > regulators, which can be rough on capacitors, and my DSL modems were
    > > made with cheapo brand capacitors. So maybe it would be a good idea
    > > to disconnect the AC power if it's not used much, and I mean turn off
    > > the power strip/surge protector so the modem's standby power circuitry
    > > doesn't stay on. OTOH a lot of times the standby power fails when
    > > it's turned on, including in computer power supplies.

    >
    > So if I read correctly, the most likely time for a component to fail is when > the power strip is turned on? Is that right? Assume the power stripdoes
    > not have APS (battery) but is just a cheap Joule surge capacitor whatever
    > they use in cheap $12 power strips.
    >
    > If that's what you are saying, since there is a small temporary power spike
    > whenever you turn on a switch (I think), please let me know as that would
    > argue for not turning on and off the modem power supply, even though it does > have a cheap SWITCHING AC TO DC POWER SUPPLY which I think for power spike / > power surge purposes is inferior to an old, heavy, oil filled traditional
    > wired up old-fashioned transformer.


    That old-fashioned transformer of yours must be huge to be oil filled. :)

    It doesn't matter whether the power supply is connected to a plain power strip or a UPS because normal voltage surges from the AC lines will be absorbed by the line filter built into the power supply. OTOH it does seem that lots of power supplies fail at turn-on, probably because (I'm speculating here -- not an expert) of the higher currents that flow momentarily to charge up its capacitors, but PSUs are supposed to be designed to to withstand that. My main concern is with the awful capacitors used in lots of power supplies, whether the power supplies are separate (wall cube, PSU for a computer) or built-in (all those voltage regulators inside modems, routers, TVs,and monitors), and for those, I'm guessing it's best to turning off the ACwhen they're not used.
     
    , Jul 13, 2012
    #14
  15. RayLopez99

    KR Guest

    Re: Leave your PC running 24/7? Leave your DSL modem always on?

    On Saturday, July 14, 2012 6:34:55 AM UTC+10, wrote:
    > On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:46:18 PM UTC-7, RayLopez99 wrote:
    > &gt; On Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:36:42 PM UTC-4, larry moe &amp;amp;#39;ncurly wrote:
    > &gt;
    > &gt; &gt; DSL modems are similar to
    > &gt; &gt; TV converters in that they both contain switching mode voltage
    > &gt; &gt; regulators, which can be rough on capacitors, and my DSL modemswere
    > &gt; &gt; made with cheapo brand capacitors. So maybe it would be a good idea
    > &gt; &gt; to disconnect the AC power if it's not used much, and I mean turn off
    > &gt; &gt; the power strip/surge protector so the modem's standby power circuitry
    > &gt; &gt; doesn't stay on. OTOH a lot of times the standby power fails when
    > &gt; &gt; it's turned on, including in computer power supplies.
    > &gt;
    > &gt; So if I read correctly, the most likely time for a component to failis when &gt; the power strip is turned on? Is that right? Assume the power strip does
    > &gt; not have APS (battery) but is just a cheap Joule surge capacitor whatever
    > &gt; they use in cheap $12 power strips.
    > &gt;
    > &gt; If that's what you are saying, since there is a small temporary power spike
    > &gt; whenever you turn on a switch (I think), please let me know as that would
    > &gt; argue for not turning on and off the modem power supply, even thoughit does &gt; have a cheap SWITCHING AC TO DC POWER SUPPLY which I think for power spike / &gt; power surge purposes is inferior to an old, heavy, oilfilled traditional
    > &gt; wired up old-fashioned transformer.
    >
    > That old-fashioned transformer of yours must be huge to be oil filled. :)
    >
    > It doesn't matter whether the power supply is connected to a plain power strip or a UPS because normal voltage surges from the AC lines will be absorbed by the line filter built into the power supply. OTOH it does seemthat lots of power supplies fail at turn-on, probably because (I'm speculating here -- not an expert) of the higher currents that flow momentarily to charge up its capacitors, but PSUs are supposed to be designed to to withstand that. My main concern is with the awful capacitors used in lots of power supplies, whether the power supplies are separate (wall cube, PSU for a computer) or built-in (all those voltage regulators inside modems, routers, TVs, and monitors), and for those, I'm guessing it's best to turning off the AC when they're not used.



    There would be relatively a large "surge" current at start up, when the capacitors charge up, but doubt this is much of a problem in typical PC and consumer supplies.


    The reason caps fail in switchmode supplies (excluding the mains filter caps) is the high frequency appearing across them. There are large ripple currents involved, over very short periods, and unless the cap is designed for this (Low ESR) it will overheat, bulge and fail. Same with motherboards. Even caps supposedly designed for this can fail over time.
     
    KR, Jul 14, 2012
    #15
  16. RayLopez99

    Paul Guest

    Re: Leave your PC running 24/7? Leave your DSL modem always on?

    KR wrote:
    > On Saturday, July 14, 2012 6:34:55 AM UTC+10, wrote:
    >> On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:46:18 PM UTC-7, RayLopez99 wrote:
    >> &gt; On Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:36:42 PM UTC-4, larry moe &amp;amp;#39;n curly wrote:
    >> &gt;
    >> &gt; &gt; DSL modems are similar to
    >> &gt; &gt; TV converters in that they both contain switching mode voltage
    >> &gt; &gt; regulators, which can be rough on capacitors, and my DSL modems were
    >> &gt; &gt; made with cheapo brand capacitors. So maybe it would be a good idea
    >> &gt; &gt; to disconnect the AC power if it's not used much, and I mean turn off
    >> &gt; &gt; the power strip/surge protector so the modem's standby power circuitry
    >> &gt; &gt; doesn't stay on. OTOH a lot of times the standby power fails when
    >> &gt; &gt; it's turned on, including in computer power supplies.
    >> &gt;
    >> &gt; So if I read correctly, the most likely time for a component to fail is when &gt; the power strip is turned on? Is that right? Assume the power strip does
    >> &gt; not have APS (battery) but is just a cheap Joule surge capacitor whatever
    >> &gt; they use in cheap $12 power strips.
    >> &gt;
    >> &gt; If that's what you are saying, since there is a small temporary power spike
    >> &gt; whenever you turn on a switch (I think), please let me know as that would
    >> &gt; argue for not turning on and off the modem power supply, even though it does &gt; have a cheap SWITCHING AC TO DC POWER SUPPLY which I think for power spike / &gt; power surge purposes is inferior to an old, heavy, oil filled traditional
    >> &gt; wired up old-fashioned transformer.
    >>
    >> That old-fashioned transformer of yours must be huge to be oil filled. :)
    >>
    >> It doesn't matter whether the power supply is connected to a plain power strip or a UPS because normal voltage surges from the AC lines will be absorbed by the line filter built into the power supply. OTOH it does seem that lots of power supplies fail at turn-on, probably because (I'm speculating here -- not an expert) of the higher currents that flow momentarily to charge up its capacitors, but PSUs are supposed to be designed to to withstand that. My main concern is with the awful capacitors used in lots of power supplies, whether the power supplies are separate (wall cube, PSU for a computer) or built-in (all those voltage regulators inside modems, routers, TVs, and monitors), and for those, I'm guessing it's best to turning off the AC when they're not used.

    >
    >
    > There would be relatively a large "surge" current at start up, when the capacitors
    > charge up, but doubt this is much of a problem in typical PC and consumer supplies.


    This is true. And some supplies, the specs actually state what the surge current will
    be. It can range from 40 to 80 amps for a short period of time, like a single cycle.
    My ATX supply here, causes the lights to flicker when first switched on at the back,
    and that's the surge. The transient is too short, for my UPS to declare the event
    to be an "overload". So the duration is short.

    That is the purpose of NTCR1 on the upper left of this schematic. It is the
    inrush limiter, and has a negative temperature coefficient. To work properly,
    when you switch off the supply, you should wait 30 seconds for NTCR1 to cool
    off. Then, the next time the back switch is energized, the inrush (surge) will
    be limited to the stated value in the spec for the supply. Rapidly toggling of
    the rear switch, defeats the protective action of NTCR1, and could lead
    to a primary side failure. It needs time to cool off.

    http://www.pavouk.org/hw/en_atxps.html

    >
    >
    > The reason caps fail in switchmode supplies (excluding the mains filter caps) is the high frequency appearing across them. There are large ripple currents involved, over very short periods, and unless the cap is designed for this (Low ESR) it will overheat, bulge and fail. Same with motherboards. Even caps supposedly designed for this can fail over time.


    There are two reasons for caps to fail.

    The first, is engineering. You have to take the ripple current rating of the
    application, the expected temperatures into account, then select the right
    capacitor or number of capacitors in parallel for the job. The Arrhenius
    equation, with curve fitted exponent, helps predict how long the capacitors
    will last, as part of the engineering exercise. One capacitor company claims
    you can get up to 15 years from an electrolytic capacitor, before the rubber
    bung on the bottom of the cap dries out, and with it, the electrolyte.

    So the manufacturer thinks they last for 15 years. Less, if they're constantly
    being overheated. Life is very short, if they run at 105C all the time.

    The second form of capacitor failure, is purely chemical. Billions of bad
    capacitors were made, with an electrolyte formula lacking a stabilizer.
    Such capacitors will fail after two years, even if the power supply is
    sitting on a shelf, cold. The metal corrodes, and juice leaks out the top.
    The pH of the electrolyte is wrong. I had an Antec fail that way, in storage,
    and there were four caps leaking inside. The capacitors do not need to be
    under bias, or in stress, for a "pure chemistry failure". No engineering
    equation would predict it. Because it wasn't intended to work that way.

    If the chemistry is right, the caps can last a long time. My 440BX motherboard
    still works for example, and must be close to 12 years old.

    If you abuse a capacitor in an application (remove an OSCON and replace with
    a regular electrolytic capacitor), then the capacitor would be out of its
    league, and shouldn't last very long. It wouldn't be rated for the ripple.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jul 14, 2012
    #16
  17. RayLopez99

    Sjouke Burry Guest

    edfair <> wrote in
    news::

    >
    > Question from RayLopez:
    > "Don't the DSL, router, and switch overheat? Do you find that they need
    > to be replaced after 3 or 4 years, from being "ON" all day and night?
    > The capacitors 'wear out', see this thread.
    >
    > Seems the DSL is the weakest link, ironically since they are your
    > conduit to the outside world."
    >
    > DSL is a used,reconfigured, SpeedStream (from SW Bell to Bellsouth)
    > that I got off ebay when the internal used in W95 didn't convert to
    > 98SE. So it has been in continual use for at least 12 years. The

    Belkin
    > routers from the same time period (had backup on site) both crapped out
    > pretty early. Whatever I had next was removed to go wireless several
    > years later. The switches have all been recycled from customers

    upgrades
    > and never have had one fail at home. Can only recall one switch ever
    > failing in all the stuff I've done, and that was a Cisco with a wall
    > wart that suddenly couldn't keep power up.
    > DSL in customer's offices are another story. Probably have replaced a
    > half dozen or so of several different manufacturers.
    >
    >
    >


    My router(Speedtouch) has been online for about 8 years now,
    outside temp about 15 degrees above room temp.
     
    Sjouke Burry, Jul 20, 2012
    #17
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