image copying drive through USB?

Discussion in 'Storage Devices' started by Yousuf Khan, Dec 19, 2008.

  1. Yousuf Khan

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    I usually transfer boot disk images using BootItNG. Those of you who
    know BING, it is a utility that boots up with its own CD boot disk. This
    is usually not a problem with my desktops, with plenty of drive bays and
    multiple connector cables available. But now I want to transfer my
    laptop boot disk to a new bigger disk and I'd like to transfer it to a
    disk connected (temporarily) via USB. I have a small empty USB laptop
    drive enclosure which is doing nothing right now.

    The only problem is that I don't think BING can support USB hard drives,
    I haven't really tested this assumption yet, so somebody might know
    better and let me know. If BING can't do it, then what's an alternative
    for transferring boot disks? Naturally, I'm thinking freeware/shareware,
    rather than the commercial utils (such as Ghost or Drive Image). Maybe
    even something that can do the boot disk image transfer while still
    running under Windows, but anything that can do the transfer over USB
    will do.

    Yousuf Khan
     
    Yousuf Khan, Dec 19, 2008
    #1
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  2. Yousuf Khan

    Ed Light Guest

    Yousuf Khan wrote:

    > The only problem is that I don't think BING can support USB hard drives,


    Upgrade to the latest version.

    To OP:

    A BING boot disk can delete the partitions, then you can make one new
    one. No charge unless you install it on the HD. When you boot it, skip
    the installation -- it will fall back to the Maintenance work screen.
    Activate USB 2 in settings. Click Partition Work, find the drive, click
    on a partition and choose Delete. Then when it's all blank click on the
    free space and choose Create, choos what kind of partition. Except for
    FAT32, you'll have to format it in the OS. If Windows doesn't want to
    format NTFS (had this happen for a thumb drive) then format it in BING
    to FAT32 with align for NTFS checked. It should format to NTFS in Win,
    but you can also use Convert at the command line.

    --
    Ed Light

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    Ed Light, Dec 19, 2008
    #2
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  3. Yousuf Khan

    Rod Speed Guest

    Yousuf Khan wrote:
    > I usually transfer boot disk images using BootItNG. Those of you who
    > know BING, it is a utility that boots up with its own CD boot disk.
    > This is usually not a problem with my desktops, with plenty of drive
    > bays and multiple connector cables available. But now I want to
    > transfer my laptop boot disk to a new bigger disk and I'd like to
    > transfer it to a disk connected (temporarily) via USB. I have a small
    > empty USB laptop drive enclosure which is doing nothing right now.


    > The only problem is that I don't think BING can support USB hard
    > drives, I haven't really tested this assumption yet, so somebody
    > might know better and let me know. If BING can't do it, then what's
    > an alternative for transferring boot disks?


    Acronis True Image.

    > Naturally, I'm thinking freeware/shareware, rather than the commercial utils (such as Ghost or Drive Image).


    Drive Image is long gone now.

    > Maybe even something that can do the boot disk
    > image transfer while still running under Windows,


    TI can do that.

    > but anything that can do the transfer over USB will do.


    There isnt much that doesnt do that at the Win level now.
    The main exception is TI which has a bootable CD which runs linux.
     
    Rod Speed, Dec 19, 2008
    #3
  4. Yousuf Khan

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    Rod Speed wrote:
    >> Maybe even something that can do the boot disk
    >> image transfer while still running under Windows,

    >
    > TI can do that.
    >
    >> but anything that can do the transfer over USB will do.

    >
    > There isnt much that doesnt do that at the Win level now.
    > The main exception is TI which has a bootable CD which runs linux.



    Another possibility is that in the old days of DOS, we were able to
    transfer the boot disk by simply doing a system transfer to the new disk
    to create the boot kernel, and then simply xcopying all of the rest of
    the stuff over. That became nearly impossible with later standalone
    Windows (e.g. I think it started with Win 95 and continued on). Is there
    some simple analog to the old system transfer and xcopy process these
    days that will produce an identical boot environment?

    Yousuf Khan
     
    Yousuf Khan, Dec 20, 2008
    #4
  5. Yousuf Khan

    Rod Speed Guest

    Yousuf Khan wrote
    > Rod Speed wrote


    >>> Maybe even something that can do the boot disk
    >>> image transfer while still running under Windows,


    >> TI can do that.


    >>> but anything that can do the transfer over USB will do.


    >> There isnt much that doesnt do that at the Win level now.
    >> The main exception is TI which has a bootable CD which runs linux.


    > Another possibility is that in the old days of DOS, we were able to
    > transfer the boot disk by simply doing a system transfer to the new
    > disk to create the boot kernel, and then simply xcopying all of the rest of the stuff over. That became nearly
    > impossible with later standalone Windows (e.g. I think it started with Win 95 and continued on).


    It isnt actually impossible, just rather more tricky.

    > Is there some simple analog to the old system transfer and xcopy
    > process these days that will produce an identical boot environment?


    Yes, xxclone will do that. I much prefer TI tho.

    Its not that expensive if you arent prepared to use torrents etc and
    is the best backup software around quite apart from that cloning.

    Seagate does have an older version available for download for free. I havent bothered
    to check if it only works with a seagate drive in the system, likely it doesnt care.
     
    Rod Speed, Dec 20, 2008
    #5
  6. Yousuf Khan

    Jack Guest

    Yousuf Khan wrote:
    <snip>
    :: The only problem is that I don't think BING can support USB hard
    :: drives, I haven't really tested this assumption yet, so somebody
    :: might know better and let me know.

    Yousuf, I'm a little perplexed by your post. Of course BING can handle
    external USB HD's (check that you have the latest version). Where BING gets
    finicky (sp?) is with the various BIOS's from all the different
    manufacturers.
    One setting will work just fine but the same (or similar) setting with a
    different manf. laptop won't. You just have to experiment and try.

    You would be MUCH better off to post this question in the
    terabyteunlimited.com Usenet NG. Could have sworn I've seen you there
    before??

    server: terabyteunlimited.com
    server port number (NNTP): 1198

    Later.

    Jack
     
    Jack, Dec 21, 2008
    #6
  7. Yousuf Khan

    bbbl67 Guest

    On Dec 19, 10:24 pm, "Rod Speed" <> wrote:
    > Yes, xxclone will do that. I much prefer TI tho.
    >
    > Its not that expensive if you arent prepared to use torrents etc and
    > is the best backup software around quite apart from that cloning.
    >
    > Seagate does have an older version available for download for free. I havent bothered
    > to check if it only works with a seagate drive in the system, likely it doesnt care.


    Ooh, I like this XXClone, it seems to be exactly something I've been
    looking for for a long long time. Even if BING does USB drives, I
    think this one gives me a bit more flexibility. I especially like how
    you can do clones to different sized partitions (even partitions that
    are smaller than the original, if there is enough free space), and
    even to partitions with different types of file systems (FAT <->
    NTFS).

    Yousuf Khan
     
    bbbl67, Dec 22, 2008
    #7
  8. Yousuf Khan

    Rod Speed Guest

    bbbl67 wrote
    > Rod Speed <> wrote
    >> Yousuf Khan wrote


    >>> Another possibility is that in the old days of DOS, we were able to
    >>> transfer the boot disk by simply doing a system transfer to the new
    >>> disk to create the boot kernel, and then simply xcopying all of the rest
    >>> of the stuff over. That became nearly impossible with later standalone
    >>> Windows (e.g. I think it started with Win 95 and continued on).


    >> It isnt actually impossible, just rather more tricky.


    >>> Is there some simple analog to the old system transfer and xcopy
    >>> process these days that will produce an identical boot environment?


    >> Yes, xxclone will do that. I much prefer TI tho.


    >> Its not that expensive if you arent prepared to use torrents etc and
    >> is the best backup software around quite apart from that cloning.


    >> Seagate does have an older version available for download
    >> for free. I havent bothered to check if it only works with a
    >> seagate drive in the system, likely it doesnt care.


    > Ooh, I like this XXClone, it seems to be exactly
    > something I've been looking for for a long long time.


    One downside with it is that its a hell of a lot slower to clone a drive than TI.

    > Even if BING does USB drives, I think this one gives me a bit more flexibility.


    Yes, particularly the intelligent updating, works well for backup of a bootable clone.

    > I especially like how you can do clones to different sized partitions (even
    > partitions that are smaller than the original, if there is enough free space),


    Most modern cloners will do that now.

    > and even to partitions with different types of file systems (FAT <-> NTFS).


    Yeah, but one real downside of that capability is that since its done at the file level, its much slower to clone a
    drive.
     
    Rod Speed, Dec 22, 2008
    #8
  9. Yousuf Khan

    bbbl67 Guest

    On Dec 22, 4:57 pm, "Rod Speed" <> wrote:
    > > Ooh, I like this XXClone, it seems to be exactly
    > > something I've been looking for for a long long time.

    >
    > One downside with it is that its a hell of a lot slower to clone a drive than TI.
    >
    > Yeah, but one real downside of that capability is that since its done at the file level, its much slower to clone a
    > drive.


    Interestingly, it's not. I've just received the new hard drive, and I
    have begun the experiments both with BING and XXClone. As Jack said,
    BING does see the USB drive. But XXClone is blowing away BING, hands
    down, in speed. So far I'm cloning the laptop's restore partition,
    which is pretty small, only 4GB or so. It's taking XXClone only about
    15-20 minutes to copy that over USB, but it was barely budging under
    BING. I'd hate to try to clone the main 90GB Windows system partition
    with BING.

    I don't know why it's so much slower. Maybe because BING copies it at
    the very low level, sector-by-sector, it may be running into USB
    protocol overhead, whereas XXClone might avoid the low-level overhead?
    Maybe because the restore partition is FAT32 rather than NTFS, BING is
    slower? Maybe because USB boots up at the slower USB 1.1 speeds while
    in BIOS, and only kicks into full USB 2.0 speeds after Windows has
    loaded? It could be any combination of those things, I imagine.

    Yousuf Khan
     
    bbbl67, Dec 24, 2008
    #9
  10. Yousuf Khan

    Ed Light Guest

    Ed Light, Dec 24, 2008
    #10
  11. Yousuf Khan

    Rod Speed Guest

    bbbl67 wrote
    > Rod Speed <> wrote


    >>> Ooh, I like this XXClone, it seems to be exactly
    >>> something I've been looking for for a long long time.


    >> One downside with it is that its a hell of a lot slower to clone a drive than TI.


    >> Yeah, but one real downside of that capability is that since
    >> its done at the file level, its much slower to clone a drive.


    > Interestingly, it's not.


    Fraid it is.

    > I've just received the new hard drive, and I have
    > begun the experiments both with BING and XXClone.


    I was talking about TI, not BING.

    > As Jack said, BING does see the USB drive. But
    > XXClone is blowing away BING, hands down, in speed.


    I've never liked BING, for that reason.

    > So far I'm cloning the laptop's restore partition, which is pretty small, only
    > 4GB or so. It's taking XXClone only about 15-20 minutes to copy that over USB,


    Thats a hell of a long time for 4GB.

    > but it was barely budging under BING. I'd hate to try to
    > clone the main 90GB Windows system partition with BING.


    Yeah, thats the reason I dont use it, its a steaming turd in a number of areas.

    > I don't know why it's so much slower. Maybe because BING copies
    > it at the very low level, sector-by-sector, it may be running into USB
    > protocol overhead, whereas XXClone might avoid the low-level overhead?


    Maybe, but if it is doing it sector by sector, its a steaming turd by definition.

    > Maybe because the restore partition is FAT32 rather than NTFS, BING is slower?


    You'd have to test that possibility.

    > Maybe because USB boots up at the slower USB 1.1 speeds while
    > in BIOS, and only kicks into full USB 2.0 speeds after Windows has
    > loaded? It could be any combination of those things, I imagine.


    And TI leaves XXCOPY for dead speed wise, which is why I use it.
     
    Rod Speed, Dec 25, 2008
    #11
  12. Yousuf Khan

    Jones Guest

    Ed Light wrote:
    > bbbl67 wrote:


    >> BING does see the USB drive. But XXClone is blowing away BING


    > I think for BING you have to turn on USB 2.0 support in settings.


    Like I said, its a steaming turd in a number of areas.
     
    Jones, Dec 25, 2008
    #12
  13. Yousuf Khan

    Ed Light Guest

    Jones wrote:
    > Ed Light wrote:
    >> bbbl67 wrote:

    >
    >>> BING does see the USB drive. But XXClone is blowing away BING

    >
    >> I think for BING you have to turn on USB 2.0 support in settings.

    >
    > Like I said, its a steaming turd in a number of areas.
    >


    Was the USB 2.0 setting in BING turned on?

    Have you got an older motherboard (such as K7?).

    It's pretty quick for me.

    You might try their newsgroup as it gets fast answers.

    --
    Ed Light

    Better World News TV Channel:
    http://realnews.com

    Bring the Troops Home:
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    Send spam to the FTC at

    Thanks, robots.
     
    Ed Light, Dec 25, 2008
    #13
  14. Yousuf Khan

    bbbl67 Guest

    On Dec 25, 2:44 am, "Rod Speed" <> wrote:
    > bbbl67wrote
    >
    > > Rod Speed <> wrote
    > > I've just received the new hard drive, and I have
    > > begun the experiments both with BING and XXClone.

    >
    > I was talking about TI, not BING.


    Oh yes, you're right, sorry, I reread the quote: I just had BING in my
    head, but you were actually talking TI.

    But anyways, XXClone still seems to be blowing BING away.

    > > As Jack said, BING does see the USB drive. But
    > > XXClone is blowing away BING, hands down, in speed.

    >
    > I've never liked BING, for that reason.
    >
    > > So far I'm cloning the laptop's restore partition, which is pretty small, only
    > > 4GB or so. It's taking XXClone only about 15-20 minutes to copy that over USB,

    >
    > Thats a hell of a long time for 4GB.


    Could be, but it's a laptop, using 5400RPM drives here.

    > > I don't know why it's so much slower. Maybe because BING copies
    > > it at the very low level, sector-by-sector, it may be running into USB
    > > protocol overhead, whereas XXClone might avoid the low-level overhead?

    >
    > Maybe, but if it is doing it sector by sector, its a steaming turd by definition.


    Well, what else does "low-level" mean other than sector-by-sector? You
    said that TI uses low-level procedures too.

    Yousuf Khan
     
    bbbl67, Dec 25, 2008
    #14
  15. Yousuf Khan

    bbbl67 Guest

    On Dec 24, 6:21 pm, Ed Light <> wrote:
    > bbbl67wrote:
    > > BING does see the USB drive. But XXClone is blowing away BING

    >
    > I think for BING you have to turn on USB 2.0 support in settings.


    The version I have doesn't seem to have a setting for that. I have
    version 1.44a.

    Yousuf Khan
     
    bbbl67, Dec 25, 2008
    #15
  16. Yousuf Khan

    Ed Light Guest

    bbbl67 wrote:
    > On Dec 24, 6:21 pm, Ed Light <> wrote:
    >> bbbl67wrote:
    >>> BING does see the USB drive. But XXClone is blowing away BING

    >> I think for BING you have to turn on USB 2.0 support in settings.

    >
    > The version I have doesn't seem to have a setting for that. I have
    > version 1.44a.
    >
    > Yousuf Khan


    1.86 here. Better grab the new one, with the enable usb 2.0 setting.

    --
    Ed Light

    Better World News TV Channel:
    http://realnews.com

    Bring the Troops Home:
    http://bringthemhomenow.org
    http://antiwar.com

    Iraq Veterans Against the War:
    http://ivaw.org
    http://couragetoresist.org

    Send spam to the FTC at

    Thanks, robots.
     
    Ed Light, Dec 26, 2008
    #16
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